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Re: New Tax Rate is Insane!
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from the article:

There was one self professed HUGE winner -

‘I dodged a bullet’

Yvonne Balcer, a longtime critic of the city’s tax abatement policies, said one of the homes that saw the largest increase downtown had formerly been hers.

“I dodged a bullet,” she said. “I sold my home six years ago.”

She said her former home saw taxes rise by 300 percent, from $16,000 to $41,000 per year. The assessed value went from $210,000 to just over $2.5 million.

“That could have been me,” she said.








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user1111 wrote:
The assessment company predicts that the biggest impacts will be felt downtown, while residents elsewhere in the city – in particular the Greenville and the southernmost part of the city – will actually see sharp declines.

Greenville, the West Side and The Heights, including areas such as County Village and Society Hill, may see decreases when the final numbers are released.

Community activists have long complained that residents in poorer neighborhoods have been paying too much in taxes, artificially subsidizing lower taxes for residences downtown.

Although the numbers throughout the city have yet to be fully released, Councilman Michael Yun predicts that Jersey City Heights – which was hit hard in the last revaluation in 1988 – will not be as negatively impacted as downtown was.

“The Heights are still an attractive place to move,” he said, suggesting that a trend that started well before the revaluation of residents moving from downtown to The Heights might increase as the results of the revaluation push people out downtown.

The problem is that downtown residents may not be able to sell their properties as easily as they might have before the revaluation.

In some cases, pending sales of properties were held up in order to see what the new taxes would be.

“This is bad news for everybody,” said one local real estate agent. “People looking to buy here don’t look at neighborhood by neighborhood, they’re thinking Jersey City, and this revaluation is saying Jersey City is too expensive.”

Read more: Hudson Reporter - Bad news for downtown Residents stunned when reval results mean more taxes

Posted on: 2/19 14:16
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The assessment company predicts that the biggest impacts will be felt downtown, while residents elsewhere in the city – in particular the Greenville and the southernmost part of the city – will actually see sharp declines.

Greenville, the West Side and The Heights, including areas such as County Village and Society Hill, may see decreases when the final numbers are released.

Community activists have long complained that residents in poorer neighborhoods have been paying too much in taxes, artificially subsidizing lower taxes for residences downtown.

Although the numbers throughout the city have yet to be fully released, Councilman Michael Yun predicts that Jersey City Heights – which was hit hard in the last revaluation in 1988 – will not be as negatively impacted as downtown was.

“The Heights are still an attractive place to move,” he said, suggesting that a trend that started well before the revaluation of residents moving from downtown to The Heights might increase as the results of the revaluation push people out downtown.

The problem is that downtown residents may not be able to sell their properties as easily as they might have before the revaluation.

In some cases, pending sales of properties were held up in order to see what the new taxes would be.

“This is bad news for everybody,” said one local real estate agent. “People looking to buy here don’t look at neighborhood by neighborhood, they’re thinking Jersey City, and this revaluation is saying Jersey City is too expensive.”

Read more: Hudson Reporter - Bad news for downtown Residents stunned when reval results mean more taxes

Posted on: 2/18 12:12
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One thing that's really difficult is that a lot of the people most adversely affected by the tax increase were real pioneers who purchased homes here in the early 80s and got behind the community, effectuated significant change and ultimately did more for Jersey City than any politician or developer. Now after pulling Jersey City from out of the depths, many of them may be forced to sell and move. The process doesn't seem to pay any deference to their efforts. For a lot of these people, downtown Jersey City is a uniquely special place to live. So the fact that they could sell their homes and maybe cash in with a lot of money may not be so comforting. They actually CREATED a community here and created a place that was unique and special. Now they have to think about where they could go and live and feel as comfortable. It's a hard pill to swallow and it's something I wish people would feel sensitive to.


Nobody is denying that some people came here at a time when the city needed it most, and through efforts, sweat, and tears, did a lot for the city. For all of that they have been amply rewarded in the form of property appreciation that is truly breathtaking: where else in the country can you find real estate that has appreciate 10 to 15 times its original value in 30 years??

And, that is the part that those claiming unfairness are all too quick to ignore or forget: your home (regardless of emotional attachment) is an asset. It is literally a piggy bank. If you bought for 100K and are now sitting on a property worth 1MM, maybe even 1.5 MM, you have essentially won the lottery. And, despite your good fortunes, and spurred by a bumbling local government, you have gotten used to not having to pay your fair share of taxes. And now, the jig is up: it is time to settle up, and pay up. It sucks, but instead of bitching about the sudden increase, perhaps those people clamoring for sympathy and understanding would be well served to show some of both for the residents that were unfairly overtaxed for decades, upon the backs of which they were able to get away with their under taxation for so long.

Posted on: 2/18 12:12
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Sutherland wrote:
One thing that's really difficult is that a lot of the people most adversely affected by the tax increase were real pioneers who purchased homes here in the early 80s and got behind the community, effectuated significant change and ultimately did more for Jersey City than any politician or developer. Now after pulling Jersey City from out of the depths, many of them may be forced to sell and move. The process doesn't seem to pay any deference to their efforts. For a lot of these people, downtown Jersey City is a uniquely special place to live. So the fact that they could sell their homes and maybe cash in with a lot of money may not be so comforting. They actually CREATED a community here and created a place that was unique and special. Now they have to think about where they could go and live and feel as comfortable. It's a hard pill to swallow and it's something I wish people would feel sensitive to.



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Posted on: 2/18 12:01
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Posted on: 2/18 11:44
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The takeaway is that people say everyone should pay their fair share, until they find out they have to as well.

Posted on: 2/18 11:15
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One thing that's really difficult is that a lot of the people most adversely affected by the tax increase were real pioneers who purchased homes here in the early 80s and got behind the community, effectuated significant change and ultimately did more for Jersey City than any politician or developer. Now after pulling Jersey City from out of the depths, many of them may be forced to sell and move. The process doesn't seem to pay any deference to their efforts. For a lot of these people, downtown Jersey City is a uniquely special place to live. So the fact that they could sell their homes and maybe cash in with a lot of money may not be so comforting. They actually CREATED a community here and created a place that was unique and special. Now they have to think about where they could go and live and feel as comfortable. It's a hard pill to swallow and it's something I wish people would feel sensitive to.

Posted on: 2/18 10:08
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dtjcview wrote:
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avinandre wrote:
...

Most people are ranting about a 1 million dollar home should pay 16K. No problem but if 100K home is 1M in 15 years, wages should have also gone up by same proportion and that is totally nuts.. If I have to pay local taxes as percent of my income I will do that and that is better way to tax and provide local services IMHO.


If you think property taxes are unfair - move to Delaware, Louisiana or Alabama.

https://taxfoundation.org/how-high-are-property-taxes-your-state/


Thanks for the suggestion I am happy where I am...

Posted on: 2/18 10:06
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avinandre wrote:
...

Most people are ranting about a 1 million dollar home should pay 16K. No problem but if 100K home is 1M in 15 years, wages should have also gone up by same proportion and that is totally nuts.. If I have to pay local taxes as percent of my income I will do that and that is better way to tax and provide local services IMHO.



If you think property taxes are unfair - move to Delaware, Louisiana or Alabama.

https://taxfoundation.org/how-high-are-property-taxes-your-state/

Posted on: 2/18 10:00
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bodhipooh wrote:
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avinandre wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


Prices have inflated a lot in last 3 years so I don't think that equate well here and reval is happening at the peak.


Your response just proves that you just do not understand how the reval works. The reval happening at peak does not matter one bit! The municipal budget has to be funded, and the tax receipts AFTER the reval will remain the same as BEFORE the reval. If the reval had been completed four years ago, as originally intended, then we would have ended up with lower aggregate valuations, which would have resulted in a higher rate.

Aggregate Value * Tax Rate = Tax Revenue

The value on the right is (essentially) fixed so the values on the left go up or down as necessary.

There is one aspect of the market being at a peak, that actually matters, and it is beneficial to DTJC homeowners: the past fours years have seen values in areas outside of DTJC starting to really heat up. In other words, the gap in valuation has narrowed somewhat, which means that the burden on DTJC homeowners was actually lessened as to compared to what would have happened in the reval had been completed in 2013-2014. In others, DTJC homeowners got a benefit (perhaps unintended) when the mayor cancelled the reval and sought delay after delay.


Understood.. Looking at there figures here:
http://jerseycity.hosted.civiclive.co ... 20Values%20Comparison.pdf

Can someone tell me where is all the rental units in these reval ? Are they even included, here ? FYI Newport alone has ~3K rental units.

Posted on: 2/18 9:49
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bodhipooh wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
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papadage wrote:
I don't feel bad for a person sitting on a multimillion dollar pot of equity.


You see it as equity, others see it as a home.


There is your problem: the two premises are NOT mutually exclusive.


i know people who keep looking up their home value every month as they see the home as investment and others see them as part of their life and never care of the value. These people may not sell for very long time.

Most people are ranting about a 1 million dollar home should pay 16K. No problem but if 100K home is 1M in 15 years, wages should have also gone up by same proportion and that is totally nuts.. If I have to pay local taxes as percent of my income I will do that and that is better way to tax and provide local services IMHO.



Posted on: 2/18 9:29
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T

Look up the tax records for owners of abated properties, it's not hard if you know the address. Check out what they pay it's a fraction of what a normal taxed property is around here.


Your ignorance is showing... what you will see in the official tax rolls is the tiny tax portion they pay. It does not show the abatement payment. But, if you feel inclined to educate yourself, you can go on Zillow and read up the combined tax/abatement payments from the description of a listed property and get the full picture. Or, you can remain ignorant, and keep spouting falsehoods.

Posted on: 2/18 8:47
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avinandre wrote:
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jc201jc wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T

Look up the tax records for owners of abated properties, it's not hard if you know the address. Check out what they pay it's a fraction of what a normal taxed property is around here.

Posted on: 2/17 18:55
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Monroe wrote:
Since JC gets almost as much from other state taxpayers to support JC schools as its total budget it's laughable to say JC had high taxes, especially given the proposed 1.62 rate.


Where is stateaidguy when you need him? That 1.62 rate is a pretty big hammer...


If you think that 1.62 is a big hammer, just wait a year or two. Once the county decides to adjust the JC contribution, it will go up. And, there is a very good chance that the state will cut back on the school funding, which will also lead to a higher school tax for residents. Also, if the market valuations drop, the rate will have to go up to compensate for the drop. I wouldn't be surprised to see a rate of 2% (or, higher) in the next few years.


The elephant is the possible cut to JC school funding.

Market valuation drops and County increases won't move the needle much. Market valuations are likely to drop near uniformly state-wide. And post-Hoboken reval - the County increased Hoboken taxes by 11.6% - but only ~1/4 of that would have hit the City rate. That kind of increase wouldn't even move the JC rate above 1.7%.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... _by_45_percent_hobok.html

Posted on: 2/17 16:02
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Yvonne wrote:
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papadage wrote:
I don't feel bad for a person sitting on a multimillion dollar pot of equity.


You see it as equity, others see it as a home.


There is your problem: the two premises are NOT mutually exclusive.

Posted on: 2/17 15:31
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I don't feel bad for a person sitting on a multimillion dollar pot of equity.


You see it as equity, others see it as a home.

Posted on: 2/17 15:15
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I don't feel bad for a person sitting on a multimillion dollar pot of equity.

Posted on: 2/17 13:18
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avinandre wrote:
This a general term used to provide housing to people under threshold may be by rental units with much lower rent in that area. Builder allocate some % units under affordable housing and get tax rebates ..

However this doesn't work rents are still higher and no one gains except for poor billionaire builders.

example:
http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_struggles_to_defin.html

The tax burden falls on to us.

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Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.


This post makes no sense. Affordable housing means housing that is affordable for people who earn x% of the area median income, not tax-free housing. If that housing is less valuable than other housing then it would, of course, be taxed based on a lower assessed value. Do you confuse affordable housing with public housing?



When my former neighbor received her $35,000 new tax bill under the revaluation, it has nothing to do with her ability to pay. The woman is 90 years old. Stop rationalizing that one group should have affordable housing and another should pay the full price. In 1988, Hispanic homeowners and senior citizens were the victims of the revaluations. They lost their homes, the collection rate fell to 70% in Jersey City, the previous year it was above 90%. This was the days before the ciity got into the business of selling liens on a yearly basis to make up the shortfall.

Posted on: 2/17 11:50
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Enough. If you own a million dollar property you'll likely pay $16,250 in taxes. In most NJ suburbs that's a deal, because those taxpayers are sending $500 million each year to pay to educate JC kids.


You're being generous in stating that this money is educating kids. It's definitely spent on the education system, but said system is hardly educating JC kids.

Posted on: 2/17 10:48

Edited by HeightsNative on 2018/2/17 11:12:20
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avinandre wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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avinandre wrote:
A person living in 1M is not rich by any means and 16K may be 10% of his annual salary so it hurts..


Translation: I want to buy too much house regardless of the financial implications.


Prices have inflated a lot in last 3 years so I don't think that equate well here and reval is happening at the peak.


Your response just proves that you just do not understand how the reval works. The reval happening at peak does not matter one bit! The municipal budget has to be funded, and the tax receipts AFTER the reval will remain the same as BEFORE the reval. If the reval had been completed four years ago, as originally intended, then we would have ended up with lower aggregate valuations, which would have resulted in a higher rate.

Aggregate Value * Tax Rate = Tax Revenue

The value on the right is (essentially) fixed so the values on the left go up or down as necessary.

There is one aspect of the market being at a peak, that actually matters, and it is beneficial to DTJC homeowners: the past fours years have seen values in areas outside of DTJC starting to really heat up. In other words, the gap in valuation has narrowed somewhat, which means that the burden on DTJC homeowners was actually lessened as to compared to what would have happened in the reval had been completed in 2013-2014. In others, DTJC homeowners got a benefit (perhaps unintended) when the mayor cancelled the reval and sought delay after delay.

Posted on: 2/17 10:35
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Enough. If you own a million dollar property you'll likely pay $16,250 in taxes. In most NJ suburbs that's a deal, because those taxpayers are sending $500 million each year to pay to educate JC kids.

Posted on: 2/17 9:21
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HeightsNative wrote:
Quote:

avinandre wrote:
Quote:

jc201jc wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T


But precisely ZERO of that PILOT money goes towards JC schools. The state makes up the difference.

What is so hard for you guys to understand about abuses and overused of abatements? Yes they're useful. But downtown hasn't needed to give them out for the last 10 years, but they have. Like candy.


So where the money goes ? Something is broken within system, right ? no body is freaking about fair taxes but the broken system which could have made things better for everyone.

What I was saying is the benefit doesn't fall on middle class.. Its super rich builders of JC getting all benefits and burdens is on us.

Imagine 80% rentals buildings pops out and are made condos for primary residence .. What happens to prices in JC ?

Posted on: 2/17 9:08
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Quote:

avinandre wrote:
Quote:

jc201jc wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T


But precisely ZERO of that PILOT money goes towards JC schools. The state makes up the difference.

What is so hard for you guys to understand about abuses and overused of abatements? Yes they're useful. But downtown hasn't needed to give them out for the last 10 years, but they have. Like candy.

Posted on: 2/17 8:47
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I'm still gobsmacked how people who didn't care about the size of the budget, or how it was funded, have now found religion once they have to pay their fair share. Remember, the reval doesn't increase tax collections-it reapportions them according to present value, not the values of 28 years ago.

Posted on: 2/17 7:40
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jc201jc wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.


Condos with tax abatement still pays fair taxes..

All the rental buildings are still getting 30 year tax abatements. T

Posted on: 2/17 7:32
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hero69 wrote:
well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy


FWIW I looked into 10 Provost Square (new building near Grove St PATH) a few weeks ago and they have no tax abatement...so maybe the tide is starting to turn.

Posted on: 2/17 1:36
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well, maybe its time for fulop and team to stop handing out tax abatements as if they're halloween candy

Posted on: 2/17 0:25
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This a general term used to provide housing to people under threshold may be by rental units with much lower rent in that area. Builder allocate some % units under affordable housing and get tax rebates ..

However this doesn't work rents are still higher and no one gains except for poor billionaire builders.

example:
http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_struggles_to_defin.html

The tax burden falls on to us.

Quote:

Bike_Lane wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.


This post makes no sense. Affordable housing means housing that is affordable for people who earn x% of the area median income, not tax-free housing. If that housing is less valuable than other housing then it would, of course, be taxed based on a lower assessed value. Do you confuse affordable housing with public housing?


Posted on: 2/16 22:46
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Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.


This post makes no sense. Affordable housing means housing that is affordable for people who earn x% of the area median income, not tax-free housing. If that housing is less valuable than other housing then it would, of course, be taxed based on a lower assessed value. Do you confuse affordable housing with public housing?

Posted on: 2/16 22:19
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Agreed and these appeasement politics should end it just rips society apart.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
At every council meeting the public officials are saying we need affordable housing, ignoring the fact that affordable housing will not pay the same taxes as everyone else. Those taxes are pushed off to the homeowners I mentioned. It is wrong to say one group should have affordable housing and another group is not paying their fair share of taxes.

Posted on: 2/16 19:45
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