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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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brewster wrote:
If the issue is really maintenance money rather than a sweetheart deal for the well-heeled, is there anybody in JC who wouldn't rather see a 1 dollar access fee than this development? Lots of other state parks like Round Valley have them, its $5 per car there.


Brewster,
Don't you currently avoid the ramp fee and walk you kayak illegally into the water?

Posted on: 12/29 0:23
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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There should be no marina, but there should be a public hearing on the subject. One free parking lot will be removed if this goes through. This is a concern since the park is already packed during the summer months. I brought up the subject about no fees for parking since the land transfer in 1965, JC already gave and should not be taxed with fees.

Posted on: 12/28 22:09
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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Yvonne wrote:
There should be no fee, in case you do not know, JC transferred acres to the state for a nominal fee to create this park. We gave up land so why be taxed twice with a fee?


So you're saying given the hypothetical choice of marina or usage fee you'd choose the marina.

Posted on: 12/28 20:54
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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There should be no fee, in case you do not know, JC transferred acres to the state for a nominal fee to create this park. We gave up land so why be taxed twice with a fee?

Posted on: 12/28 19:56
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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If the issue is really maintenance money rather than a sweetheart deal for the well-heeled, is there anybody in JC who wouldn't rather see a 1 dollar access fee than this development? Lots of other state parks like Round Valley have them, its $5 per car there.

Posted on: 12/28 18:58
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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We should have known the bums in Trenton would sneak this through on Christmas week. I hope the public hearings are packed with angry voters. It really is sad.

Posted on: 12/28 17:05
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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neverleft wrote:
.
(12/28/17) Liberty State Park marina plan moves forward

Updated 1:37 PM; Posted 1:30 PM
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- A Texas marina company and the state Department of Environmental Protection have agreed on the terms of a new lease that would allow the company to expand its current marina in Liberty State Park and build a new one on the park's south end.

The tentative agreement between Suntex Marinas and the DEP puts the controversial marina expansion plan one step closer to reality. The proposal, criticized by park advocates as a commercial takeover of the 1,200-acre park, must be reviewed by the DEP and approved by the State House Commission.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... s.html#incart_river_index




Beyond sad that even our public parks aren't safe from overdevelopment.




Posted on: 12/28 14:35
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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(12/28/17) Liberty State Park marina plan moves forward

Updated 1:37 PM; Posted 1:30 PM
By Terrence T. McDonald tmcdonald@jjournal.com
The Jersey Journal

JERSEY CITY -- A Texas marina company and the state Department of Environmental Protection have agreed on the terms of a new lease that would allow the company to expand its current marina in Liberty State Park and build a new one on the park's south end.

The tentative agreement between Suntex Marinas and the DEP puts the controversial marina expansion plan one step closer to reality. The proposal, criticized by park advocates as a commercial takeover of the 1,200-acre park, must be reviewed by the DEP and approved by the State House Commission.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... s.html#incart_river_index

Posted on: 12/28 14:11
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to see Liberty National's take on this proposal... I know years ago Tiger had to park his yacht over at the marina @ Battery Park. Would they want an active marina, this proposed size next to them?


When I worked at Liberty National golf course, years ago, as in as far back the first time Tiger competed at the FedEx cup there, that is when I first heard of this proposal. I'm surprised this project (proposal) remained dormant/under the radar for ~years~. Maybe the are waiting for the changing of the guard (governor) for it to be lost in the shuffle? Liberty national was in favor of it, then, plus building a large apartment residence or hotel, IIRC, on the edge of its property, right next to where the marina is situated.


The Players @ FEDEX inc Tiger were not happy with the course... then throw in Sandy destruction and it was just not the right time.

I am sure they would love a hotel/casino at the roundabout... instant backdoor access.

Posted on: 12/17 21:03
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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Suntex is a business; they need to make money. It's fine for them to propose this marina.

But it's NOT fine for the Christie administration to green-light it. That's pure spite and vengeance from mean-spirited looters of public coffers who pretend to be a public servants.

The park is gorgeous. And they need to allocate the funds needed to open the rest of it to the public.

The marina at the north end is all the marina the park needs. Heck, it serviced racing boats several years ago (Sept 2013), and that's fine.

IMGP3443

Leave the southern end of the park for we-the-99%-of-the-people.

Posted on: 12/17 14:54
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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This is a riot, I found a document from 2015 which the DEP produced the last time it was pushing for development in LSP. Look at these guidelines, of which the current proposal meets only one: that the new users be regular not one time.

http://www.nj.gov/dep/sustainableparks/docs/dep-lsp-report.pdf

Quote:
Improving Liberty State Park: Guiding Principles

Any improvements to Liberty State Park must be guided by a clearly defined set of principles –
principles that are designed to both improve the visitor experience and increase revenue
without compromising the elements of the Park that draws 4 million people to it annually. In
preparing this report, DEP has adhered to the following principles:

? Liberty State Park’s core strengths must not be compromised. Liberty State Park is
unique in New Jersey’s state park system. The park’s core strengths as a natural oasis in
the midst of one of the most densely developed regions in the world and as an
unparalleled location for viewing one of the most breathtaking vistas of the built
environment, must not be compromised by any changes to the park.

? New amenities and facilities should increase the number of regular, as opposed to
one-time, visitors
. Currently, the limited existing commercial activity is “destinationoriented,”
attracting one-time visitors who come for a specific, one-time event. Adding
additional amenities will encourage repeat visits and attract new visitors, which will in
turn, make the park economically sustainable without the need for funding from
General Revenue.

? Any revenue-producing additions to the park should enhance its appeal as a
multifaceted family destination.
The park already offers a variety of active and passive
family activities, ranging from playgrounds and large fields to the Liberty Science Center.
New activity should be compatible with the park’s reputation as a family-friendly
destination.

? New revenue-producing activities should strengthen the economic base of the region
as well as the communities surrounding the park.
The jobs and opportunities provided
by new amenities will help boost the local economy and have a multiplier effect across
the region.

? New revenue-producing activity should generate as much income as possible for park
operations without intruding on existing park uses.
Liberty State Park is first and
foremost a public park and the consideration of any potential partners must
complement the Park’s status as a world-class park and cultural attraction.

? New revenue-producing activity should be open to the public. This includes cultural
attractions, concessions, restaurants, free and ticketed events, and many other
potential uses. However, limited private development could be a low-impact and highrevenue-producing
option, if it is done in the right place and at the right scale.



Posted on: 12/17 14:28
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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135jc wrote:
I wonder Brewster when you launch your kayak do you pay the ramp fee? My original point was that done right this could be an asset to the park.


I launch where I'm supposed to, at the free "cartop" launch spot. How will this be an asset to anyone except boat owners? They aren't current stakeholders in the park, the northern marina does nothing to enhance the park for anyone but the boat owners. The only thing is does is enhance revenue, not something parks are supposed to be all about.

Here's a great OP-ED from the LAST time Christie tried to give away part of LSP.

Quote:
Unless the operating budget of every entity in the state is considered a "deficit," then claiming that LSP has a $2 million deficit is another falsehood trumped up to allow self-serving commercial leases in LSP. The Park has annual operating expenses of $3.5 million, and brings in $1.5 million in revenues. The remaining $2 million comes out of the $39 million already budgeted for all state parks.

To put the cost of LSP's $2 million annual operating budget in perspective: it is only 20 percent of what the NJ taxpayer has spent on the Governor's $10 million Bridgegate legal fees, and just 0.00006 percent of the $33.8 billion New Jersey State Budget.

The Christie Administration can try to spin the numbers at Liberty State Park, but the numbers don't lie: The development of public trust lands at LSP will not begin to solve the state budget deficit, but it will certainly increase New Jersey's urban open space deficit and forever mar one our nation's great public places.


http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... rty_state_park_opini.html

Posted on: 12/17 12:03
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!


I have not been in that area recently (I run through there in much warmer weather temps), but IIRC, isn't there a muni-meter like ticket printing machine right next to a portta-potty or two, and next the boat launch area? I do recall seeing signs in the area warning/instructing about when it is okay to park and ticketing, etc.


Yup, I've seen them patrol the lot looking to see the parking chits on the dashboards of car/trailers parked there.

Posted on: 12/17 8:44
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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135jc wrote:
Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end


So tell us, how often are you at the south end? Sounds like never. Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.


How often am I there? Quite a bit and I'm sure more then you! They could easily move some picnic areas further east as well as keep the public boat launch. For the record I would be against the removal of the boat launch and I doubt it would occur. I wonder Brewster when you launch your kayak do you pay the ramp fee? My original point was that done right this could be an asset to the park.

Posted on: 12/17 8:38
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!


I have not been in that area recently (I run through there in much warmer weather temps), but IIRC, isn't there a muni-meter like ticket printing machine right next to a portta-potty or two, and next the boat launch area? I do recall seeing signs in the area warning/instructing about when it is okay to park and ticketing, etc.

Posted on: 12/14 15:45
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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TheBigGuy wrote:
I am curious to see Liberty National's take on this proposal... I know years ago Tiger had to park his yacht over at the marina @ Battery Park. Would they want an active marina, this proposed size next to them?


When I worked at Liberty National golf course, years ago, as in as far back the first time Tiger competed at the FedEx cup there, that is when I first heard of this proposal. I'm surprised this project (proposal) remained dormant/under the radar for ~years~. Maybe the are waiting for the changing of the guard (governor) for it to be lost in the shuffle? Liberty national was in favor of it, then, plus building a large apartment residence or hotel, IIRC, on the edge of its property, right next to where the marina is situated.

Posted on: 12/14 15:40
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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Wow. Is this a recent change? I used to launch my kayak from there often and never had an issue. I was not even aware that there is/was a fee to park there. Is there any signage to that effect? Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!


For boat/trailer receipt you'd pay way down the end in the small office/administration building (near flags).

Also looking for an update on this as I've not done it in years but I'd go out solo with a Klepper Kayak and gotten ticketed for leaving my car in that lot.

It's a drag to leave your gear on that little dock and then have to park your car down much further in the free lots.


There's a separate "Car top Boat Launch" designated in the last lot so you don't have to deal with the ramp fees at all. That's all I've ever used. It's just a nasty rocky beach, but they have a no parking/loading zone right by the break in the fence if you don't have wheels or you can't get a spot close.

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Posted on: 12/14 11:56
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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Wow. Is this a recent change? I used to launch my kayak from there often and never had an issue. I was not even aware that there is/was a fee to park there. Is there any signage to that effect? Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!




For boat/trailer receipt you'd pay way down the end in the small office/administration building (near flags).

Also looking for an update on this as I've not done it in years but I'd go out solo with a Klepper Kayak and gotten ticketed for leaving my car in that lot.

It's a drag to leave your gear on that little dock and then have to park your car down much further in the free lots.

Posted on: 12/14 11:45
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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Monroe wrote:
The boat launch lot has a fee.


Used to launch a small boat there and if you parked in the lot with a trailer attached you needed a receipt in the window showing that you paid - you could launch a kayak and leave your car in that area for free if a trailer was not present, but understand they started ticketing any cars in there w/o a launch receipt.




Wow. Is this a recent change? I used to launch my kayak from there often and never had an issue. I was not even aware that there is/was a fee to park there. Is there any signage to that effect? Also, where does one buy/pay for a launch ticket to avoid a parking fine? Thanks!

Posted on: 12/14 11:22
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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brewster wrote:
Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.


YES! And I'm not sure that the birds that nest south of the marina would welcome all the boat traffic.

Posted on: 12/14 10:55
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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Monroe wrote:
The boat launch lot has a fee.


Used to launch a small boat there and if you parked in the lot with a trailer attached you needed a receipt in the window showing that you paid - you could launch a kayak and leave your car in that area for free if a trailer was not present, but understand they started ticketing any cars in there w/o a launch receipt.



Posted on: 12/14 10:40
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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The boat launch lot has a fee.

Posted on: 12/14 8:41
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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brewster wrote:
When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.



Are you able to leave your car there (in the launch parking area) or do you need to pay and have a recipe for boat launch to use the ramp as a kayak put it?


The south end of the park is heaven and not commercialized and hopefully can stay this way.



If he is referring to the public boat launch area, that lot appears to be free. Some weekends that launch parking lot is packed and I have never seen signs indicating there is a parking fees or boat launch usage fee.

The area is patrolled by Park Police / JCPD and it is a watercraft staging area for the State Police Hudson River Training. Can't imagine the proposal leaves that free water access open.


Posted on: 12/14 7:06
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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135jc wrote:
Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end


So tell us, how often are you at the south end? Sounds like never. Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.


While I agree that land in the middle is no replacement for waterfront areas, I do think that a thoughtfully drawn plan for this could yield a result of a nicely integrated marina that does not inhibit public access as it exists today. I just came back from a trip overseas in which I got to enjoy a bunch of waterfront areas that incorporated marinas, walking trails, cycling lanes, and other amenities, and it seemed quite nice to be able to have it all in harmony. I am not sure why it is that assumed as fait accompli that any marina here would preclude the public from being able to continue enjoying the waterfront.

At the risk of getting clobbered or flamed, why not support a plan/proposal that allows for a marina while ensuring unencumbered public access to the waterfront and the amenities that currently exist (or, even upgraded ones paid for by the marina leaseholder?) and enjoy the windfall of some extra revenue to help with park maintenance and upkeep.

Posted on: 12/14 6:53
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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brewster wrote:
When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.



Are you able to leave your car there (in the launch parking area) or do you need to pay and have a recipe for boat launch to use the ramp as a kayak put it?


The south end of the park is heaven and not commercialized and hopefully can stay this way.


The question was not directed at me, but I will answer it since I have also used that ramp on a bunch of occasions to launch my kayak: I normally unload my stuff on the area around the boat launch (kayak, life preserver, oars/paddles, dog, etc) and then move the car to the surface parking lot area and leave it there until I get back. No issues, no hassles.

My only complaint about the launch area and channel tere is that the asswipes from Liberty National have a boat tender that whisks members from elsewhere (most likely the WTC area) and they show zero courtesy to others by speeding inside the channel, causing a fairly large wake that is just annoying for other small crafts, particularly canoes or kayaks. Slowing down to leave next to no wake would be the right and courteous thing to do.

Posted on: 12/14 6:47
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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brewster wrote:
When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.



Are you able to leave your car there (in the launch parking area) or do you need to pay and have a recipe for boat launch to use the ramp as a kayak put it?


The south end of the park is heaven and not commercialized and hopefully can stay this way.

Posted on: 12/13 23:35
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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135jc wrote:
Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end


So tell us, how often are you at the south end? Sounds like never. Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.


And you know they will have to take away the free public boat launch there... that grove of trees is the only tree sheltered cookout spot for families. The northside marina is just a congested mess in the public walkways.

Posted on: 12/13 21:56
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
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135jc wrote:
Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end


So tell us, how often are you at the south end? Sounds like never. Land in the middle is not a replacement for the waterfront. When I launch my kayak there I'm always astonished at the number of people who drive there and just sit in their cars taking in the view. Not my style, but it's PUBLIC ACCESS to a PUBLIC ASSET.

This has a lot in common with Trump removing protections for western lands. Taking public assets and giving them away to private interests.

Posted on: 12/13 20:40
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
#39
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Fulop can play hardball here but folds to developers and increases the paulus hook height restriction. The truth is any footprint a marina would take up can be made up by expanding into the areas of the park that are not open to the public. Make the marina pay for the remediation of the land and for the bulk head. LSP is a beautiful space but huge and if done right this could be a nice addition to the South end

Posted on: 12/13 20:08
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Re: Just say 'no' to 'millionaires' marina on the south side of Liberty State Park
#38
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Don't bother Murphy, he went to Puerto Rico, NJ comes in second.

Posted on: 12/13 19:46
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