JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: New Amazon HQ [Main Forum]

Re: New Amazon HQ

#128

Home away from home

Joined:
2012/8/6 18:56

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1012

Quote:

brewster wrote:
Even with the "welfare" 25K highly paid jobs pouring money into the local economy was nothing to sneeze at.

Actually, it is. 25k employees is a drop in the bucket. And it's not like they were going to hire a bunch of high school graduates, and pay them double the prevailing wage for those jobs.

The scare quotes are not justified; this is definitely corporate welfare, to a company with a market cap close to $800 billion, and that made $5.7 billion in profits and paid zero federal taxes in 2017.

Quote:

The nation is becoming a "bitchocracy", rule by the loudest and most offended.

Or... not.

To start with, public outcry was not invented in December 2018. It's part and parcel of society, and it has never been perfectly proportionate, and seldom mediated by careful reflection on the part of the mob. What changes is the criteria for public disapproval. Once upon a time, it was homosexual behavior, or being Catholic, or having an affair, or being black, that incurred public rage. Now, it's racism and sexual assault. Boo...?

To continue, that's not what happened here. Amazon secured huge benefits for their NYC HQ with a bunch of politicians, and thought it was a done deal. I hate to agree with Di Blasio on this, as he is clearly trying to cover his ass, but: Amazon clearly chickened out. Big projects like this always incur opposition in NYC. Bloomberg got shot down for his Hudson Yards stadium; opposition to the Barclays Center was huge; heck, just moving the Washington Square Fountain over by a few feet resulted in protests and lawsuits. They folded after 3 months.

And while generally I like and use Amazon, I'm not down with its high-handed screw-the-locals attitude. Companies pull this kind of crap all the time, wringing concessions out of local politicians (who have almost no other way to generate private sector jobs, really), and then reneging on their promises. For once, some of the locals decided they were not having it. Good on them.

For a taste of the bullet that LIC probably just dodged, and the list of promises broken by these types of deals, look no further than Bloomberg News' writeup on the Foxconn Wisconsin plant:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feature ... billion-deal-with-foxconn

Posted on: Today 11:56

Re: New Amazon HQ

#127

Home away from home

Joined:
2012/8/6 18:56

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1012

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
amazon has decided not build HQ2 in Long Island City. Can't say that I'm too sad given all the financial incentives ("corporate welfare") amzn was due to receive. maybe they can expand their newark operations as well as dc and nashville.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html

NY politicians and 'activists' trying to blackmail them into using union labor sure didn't help.

:rolleyes:

There was no "blackmail." During a council meeting, union groups that were opposed to the deal were willing to back it if Amazon agreed not to impede employee efforts to unionize. Amazon refused.

Posted on: Today 10:41

Re: New Amazon HQ

#126

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/13 21:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3589

Quote:

135jc wrote:
A bunch of liberals out liberaling each other or maybe our prgressiving each other. Regardless of the tax break LIC will not recoup this loss with other business

so much doom and gloom as if people weren't moving to lic even before amazon showed any interest in the place. lic and nyc will be fine. they did a great job with the waterfront and public space in that area although it could use more supermarkets and restaurants (OH! and i doubt amazon would have spurred an increase in restaurants since some tech companies have free/heavily subsidized cafeterias)

Posted on: Today 9:53

135jc

Re: New Amazon HQ

#125

Home away from home

Joined:
2009/7/16 23:05

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 821

A bunch of liberals out liberaling each other or maybe our prgressiving each other. Regardless of the tax break LIC will not recoup this loss with other business

Posted on: Today 8:53

Re: New Amazon HQ

#124

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/13 21:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3589

nyc is not Detroit. these 25,000 jobs would be created over a LONG period. I doubt NYT was trying to do a hatchet job on amzn. oh and btw, amazonpaid ZERO federal taxes last year.

http://fortune.com/2019/02/14/amazon- ... t-pay-federal-taxes-2019/
Quote:

TheBigGuy wrote:
The cost of doing business in NYC and NY State probably warranted the $3B incentives just for them to be in contention. 25K jobs does mean something to a local economy... especially if they are blue collar jobs.

Google and Amazon are two different business models... And why would I expect a positive article from the NYT? Bezos owns their liberal competitor WaPo. Do you really think the NYT want Bezos pitching a tent in their backyard?

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
another insightful NYT article about amazon subsidies. so, amazon got $570 million from virginia and $100 million from Nashville, yet NYC offered $3 billion? WTH?
oh, and give me a break about the 25,000 jobs that amzn was gonna bring to LIC with an average salary of $150,000. that could mean anything from 1 person making $5 million and rest make peanuts....why should taxpayers subsidize someone's $25 million salary?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/ups ... nn-subsidies-critics.html

Posted on: Today 2:47

TheBigGuy

Re: New Amazon HQ

#123

Home away from home

Joined:
2009/5/12 18:51

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1502

The cost of doing business in NYC and NY State probably warranted the $3B incentives just for them to be in contention. 25K jobs does mean something to a local economy... especially if they are blue collar jobs.

Google and Amazon are two different business models... And why would I expect a positive article from the NYT? Bezos owns their liberal competitor WaPo. Do you really think the NYT want Bezos pitching a tent in their backyard?

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
another insightful NYT article about amazon subsidies. so, amazon got $570 million from virginia and $100 million from Nashville, yet NYC offered $3 billion? WTH?
oh, and give me a break about the 25,000 jobs that amzn was gonna bring to LIC with an average salary of $150,000. that could mean anything from 1 person making $5 million and rest make peanuts....why should taxpayers subsidize someone's $25 million salary?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/ups ... nn-subsidies-critics.html

Posted on: Yesterday 22:14

RichMauro

Re: New Amazon HQ

#122

Home away from home

Joined:
2013/10/14 19:28

From Earth

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 223

I wonder how many noticed that Cuomo went to see Trump with hat in hand yesterday to get some help with that 2.3 billion shortfall in his budget a main topic of the meeting.
Think he and other NY politicos are somewhat miffed at the turn of events?

Posted on: Yesterday 21:15

JC_Man

Re: New Amazon HQ

#121

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/5/22 16:46

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 422

Today's Amazon announcement is the greatest boost for Trump's re-election in 2020. He'll use this to no end bashing the Socialist, Hate Big Business Democrats - great boost for him and all Republicans running in 2020.

Thank you Ms. AOC!!

Posted on: Yesterday 20:58

biggoron

Re: New Amazon HQ

#120

Newbie

Joined:
2014/7/16 16:46

From Jersey City

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 16

As hero69 mentioned Google is doing it the right way. Beyond adding more jobs with little fanfare at around the same time as Amazon, they have worked hard to be good neighbors. They are engaging with the community instead of trying to strong arm them. They are actually paying for infrastructure improvements. The below article mentions a ferry terminal and the High Line as examples.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/14/nyr ... e-nyc-amazon-offices.html

It just seemed to me Cuomo was so eager that he didn't even try to negotiate.

Posted on: Yesterday 20:03

Re: New Amazon HQ

#119

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/13 21:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3589

another insightful NYT article about amazon subsidies. so, amazon got $570 million from virginia and $100 million from Nashville, yet NYC offered $3 billion? WTH?
oh, and give me a break about the 25,000 jobs that amzn was gonna bring to LIC with an average salary of $150,000. that could mean anything from 1 person making $5 million and rest make peanuts....why should taxpayers subsidize someone's $25 million salary?

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/ups ... nn-subsidies-critics.html

Posted on: Yesterday 18:48

Re: New Amazon HQ

#118

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/6 16:13

From Hamilton Park

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 5438

Quote:

craigslistdiva wrote:
I'm kind of happy it's not coming to NYC. Detroit, Buffalo or Newark type cities (I'm sure there are a ton) which are desperate need of revitalization would be better suited for this.

Likely a major reason they chose larger metros is that being the big dog in a small market they'd have a target on their back for everything they do the way they already do in Seattle. Didn't work.

Posted on: Yesterday 15:23

Re: New Amazon HQ

#117

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/13 21:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3589

it's time for politicians to stop handing out incentives paid for by taxpayers as if they are hallowen candy.

google plans to create ~10,000 jobs in nyc without the massive incentives and in a shorter time frame. what's google got that amazon doesn't that justifies such massive incentives?

Posted on: Yesterday 14:33

bodhipooh

Re: New Amazon HQ

#116

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/8/12 14:31

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3663

Quote:

craigslistdiva wrote:
I'm kind of happy it's not coming to NYC. Detroit, Buffalo or Newark type cities (I'm sure there are a ton) which are desperate need of revitalization would be better suited for this.

Disney is still coming to Hudson Sq though.

There’s a reason why none of those cities, and other similar ones, were never serious contenders: they may need the economic boost and help, but they have little to offer in the overall sense, including dearth of functional mass transit, and cultural offerings.

Posted on: Yesterday 14:24

craigslistdiva

Re: New Amazon HQ

#115

Just can't stay away

Joined:
2014/5/7 17:02

From DTJC

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 124

I'm kind of happy it's not coming to NYC. Detroit, Buffalo or Newark type cities (I'm sure there are a ton) which are desperate need of revitalization would be better suited for this.

Disney is still coming to Hudson Sq though.

Posted on: Yesterday 14:11

Re: New Amazon HQ

#114

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/13 21:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3589

Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
amazon has decided not build HQ2 in Long Island City. Can't say that I'm too sad given all the financial incentives ("corporate welfare") amzn was due to receive. maybe they can expand their newark operations as well as dc and nashville.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html

NY politicians and 'activists' trying to blackmail them into using union labor sure didn't help.

EXACTLY. A bunch of politicians and useless self professed "community activists" felt excluded and were upset they didn’t get their due in the selection process, so they decided to try and force Amazon into a corner via public agitation and shaming. Those bozos just did the LIC (and surrounding communities) a disservice: instead of a huge economic boost in the near future, they will be facing the reality of a slowing economy and softening real estate market. Kudos to Amazon for not letting themselves get smacked into submission.

well, politicians and amzn should have taken into consideration community impact in terms of rising housing costs, packed subways. besides, this was 25,000 jobs over 10-20 years so i think ny will be fine in creating high quality jobs.

Posted on: Yesterday 14:10

Monroe

Re: New Amazon HQ

#113

Home away from home

Joined:
2013/5/15 10:11

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 4391

Quote:

brewster wrote:
Even with the "welfare" 25K highly paid jobs pouring money into the local economy was nothing to sneeze at. The nation is becoming a "bitchocracy", rule by the loudest and most offended.
Same thing going on with the VA Governor, most people don't give a crap about something tasteless a guy did 35 years ago, but the loudest and most "virtue demanding" are hounding him out of office.

Somehow our Spartacus has ignored the NJ gal in the Alvarez mess, (after attacking Judge Kavanaugh), but has gone after the VA folks. Go figure.

Posted on: Yesterday 13:29

Re: New Amazon HQ

#112

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/6 16:13

From Hamilton Park

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 5438

Even with the "welfare" 25K highly paid jobs pouring money into the local economy was nothing to sneeze at. The nation is becoming a "bitchocracy", rule by the loudest and most offended.
Same thing going on with the VA Governor, most people don't give a crap about something tasteless a guy did 35 years ago, but the loudest and most "virtue demanding" are hounding him out of office.

Posted on: Yesterday 13:19

bodhipooh

Re: New Amazon HQ

#111

Home away from home

Joined:
2008/8/12 14:31

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3663

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
amazon has decided not build HQ2 in Long Island City. Can't say that I'm too sad given all the financial incentives ("corporate welfare") amzn was due to receive. maybe they can expand their newark operations as well as dc and nashville.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html

NY politicians and 'activists' trying to blackmail them into using union labor sure didn't help.

EXACTLY. A bunch of politicians and useless self professed "community activists" felt excluded and were upset they didn’t get their due in the selection process, so they decided to try and force Amazon into a corner via public agitation and shaming. Those bozos just did the LIC (and surrounding communities) a disservice: instead of a huge economic boost in the near future, they will be facing the reality of a slowing economy and softening real estate market. Kudos to Amazon for not letting themselves get smacked into submission.

Posted on: Yesterday 12:58

Monroe

Re: New Amazon HQ

#110

Home away from home

Joined:
2013/5/15 10:11

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 4391

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
amazon has decided not build HQ2 in Long Island City. Can't say that I'm too sad given all the financial incentives ("corporate welfare") amzn was due to receive. maybe they can expand their newark operations as well as dc and nashville.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html

NY politicians and 'activists' trying to blackmail them into using union labor sure didn't help.

Posted on: Yesterday 12:14

Re: New Amazon HQ

#109

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/13 21:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3589

amazon has decided not build HQ2 in Long Island City. Can't say that I'm too sad given all the financial incentives ("corporate welfare") amzn was due to receive. maybe they can expand their newark operations as well as dc and nashville.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/nyregion/amazon-hq2-queens.html

Posted on: Yesterday 12:06

Re: New Amazon HQ

#108

Home away from home

Joined:
2012/8/6 18:56

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 1012

Quote:

bluehorse wrote:
Between Amazon’s 25,000 and Google’s 12,000 new employees, downtown JC will definitively be effected. Even if Amazon employees don’t end up living in JC, they will displace some people who will.

NYC grows by at least 100k per year -- and not all of the Amazon jobs will be filled by people moving to NYC. In fact, a big reason for Amazon picking NYC is to hire people who are already in NYC, or already planning to move to NYC. I.e. we won't see 37,000 new people house hunting in JSQ next weekend.

Plus, whatever the impact is, it will be spread over literally millions of housing units. JC is 5-8 miles and two rivers (or: 1 hour on two strained train systems) away from LIC. That distance covers huge swaths of Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Hoboken, parts of the so-called Gold Coast....

The biggest impact will obviously be on LIC -- which is already undergoing a housing boom. Again, it's been gentrifying and building for years now. Over 1400 units were approved this year for LIC, and that was before HQ2.5 was announced.

I assume most of those new units will be aimed squarely at those high income earners; and since DTJC is already gentrified and other PATH-adjacent areas are already on their way, unfortunately I don't think there is much room for those pushed out by rising prices.

I cheerily admit I prefer this kind of narrative to the "OMG we're in a bubble we will all be underwater on our mortgages next week!!!" But overall, I expect the effects on JC will be indirect and small.

If Amazon had selected Newark, that would be a completely different story.

Posted on: 2018/11/15 11:58

K-Lo2

Re: New Amazon HQ

#107

Home away from home

Joined:
2017/1/3 13:17

From Jersey City

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 334

You're seriously comparing NYC Community Boards to Jersey CIty Neighborhood Associations?

Community boards are each composed of up to 50 volunteer members appointed by the local borough president, half from nominations by City Council members representing the community district (i.e., whose council districts cover part of the community district). Each community board is led by a district manager, with an office and staff, whose primary purpose is to coordinate the delivery of services to the community. Non-board members may also join or work on board committees. Each borough also has a borough board, composed of the borough president, council members from the borough, and the chairperson of each community board in the borough.

Posted on: 2018/11/14 15:20

llee

Re: New Amazon HQ

#106

Newbie

Joined:
2013/4/30 13:27

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 9

IMHO Amazon HQ2 will barely make a dent on JC RE. The boom will go to various parts of queens, nassau county with LIRR access and anywhere with East ferry river access. LIC is also seeing a flood of new devs inventory by 2020.

Google expansion will impact JC somewhat due to proximity but dtjc also has lots of rental inventory to absorb this. otoh google office is accessible by many subway lines all over nyc.

Posted on: 2018/11/14 13:30

Re: New Amazon HQ

#105

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/6 16:13

From Hamilton Park

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 5438

Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:
Thankfully NYC just passed a measure to get all the old, white NIMBYs off their community boards (term limits), so it should be easier to get more stuff built in the future. Hopefully Jersey City does the same and completely neuters the NA's and Yvonnes in the future.

Have you ever attended or joined a JC NA? JC NA's have nowhere near the power of NYCs CB's. They have no official powers but are simply nonprofit orgs, while CBs are essentially a part of city govt. NA's only power is being organized and getting heard. There have been several times to my knowledge there have been competing NA's in the same area.

Posted on: 2018/11/14 11:49

bluehorse

Re: New Amazon HQ

#104

Just can't stay away

Joined:
2007/5/30 13:27

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 72

Between Amazon’s 25,000 and Google’s 12,000 new employees, downtown JC will definitively be effected. Even if Amazon employees don’t end up living in JC, they will displace some people who will. I know the Google story is not getting much press but it impacts JC more—their new office will be right across from Newport.
https://gizmodo.com/oh-good-google-is- ... resence-in-1830300276/amp

Posted on: 2018/11/14 11:28

dr_nick_riviera

Re: New Amazon HQ

#103

Home away from home

Joined:
2015/11/21 17:12

From DTJC

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 340

Quote:

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
The JC to Queens commute is not great, with both the PATH *and* the E/R trains getting very crowded.

Several of my clients moved from the garment center to LIC. Honestly, the travel time is the same since I'm not fighting my way to walk 1/2 mile through the crowded midtown streets. So, can JC be worth the extra fare to commute to LIC? Given that an unlimited Smartlink card is $1000/yr, you can easily save that in 2 months of rent over equivalent areas of Queens. Transferring at 23rd street to the F is a snap.

I'll also point out that outdoor recreation opportunities were on that list of requirements. I guess they downgraded it, but getting to the Catskills or Poconos is FAR easier from JC than Queens, one reason we moved here rather than Brooklyn 20 years ago.

I had a client make almost the exact same move. My travel time nearly doubled. So did my travel costs.

"Fighting you way through the streets?" Really?

LIC has also gentrified quite a bit in the past 10-15 years, with lots of housing and amenities already in the pipeline. LIC will be almost completely transformed by the time HQ 2½ is up and running.

Jersey City would be pretty low on the list if I landed a high-paying job in LIC today.
a salary of $100,000 only goes so far. just ask people in sn francisco and silicon valley...PLUS, hq 2.5 is expected to generate an additional 37,000 indirect jobs.....those people will need to live somewhere too. i read somewhere that ny metro population is expected to grow by 1 million over next decade..

1 million in the next decade? Do you have a source for that? The most recent statistic I read, they weren't expecting NYC's population to hit 9 million until 2030...we're pushing 8.7 million in 2018.

No doubt there's going to be a dire, dire need for more housing in all regions of the NYC metro area. Thankfully NYC just passed a measure to get all the old, white NIMBYs off their community boards (term limits), so it should be easier to get more stuff built in the future. Hopefully Jersey City does the same and completely neuters the NA's and Yvonnes in the future.

Posted on: 2018/11/14 11:07

Re: New Amazon HQ

#102

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/13 21:38

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 3589

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
The JC to Queens commute is not great, with both the PATH *and* the E/R trains getting very crowded.

Several of my clients moved from the garment center to LIC. Honestly, the travel time is the same since I'm not fighting my way to walk 1/2 mile through the crowded midtown streets. So, can JC be worth the extra fare to commute to LIC? Given that an unlimited Smartlink card is $1000/yr, you can easily save that in 2 months of rent over equivalent areas of Queens. Transferring at 23rd street to the F is a snap.

I'll also point out that outdoor recreation opportunities were on that list of requirements. I guess they downgraded it, but getting to the Catskills or Poconos is FAR easier from JC than Queens, one reason we moved here rather than Brooklyn 20 years ago.

I had a client make almost the exact same move. My travel time nearly doubled. So did my travel costs.

"Fighting you way through the streets?" Really?

LIC has also gentrified quite a bit in the past 10-15 years, with lots of housing and amenities already in the pipeline. LIC will be almost completely transformed by the time HQ 2½ is up and running.

Jersey City would be pretty low on the list if I landed a high-paying job in LIC today.

a salary of $100,000 only goes so far. just ask people in sn francisco and silicon valley...PLUS, hq 2.5 is expected to generate an additional 37,000 indirect jobs.....those people will need to live somewhere too. i read somewhere that ny metro population is expected to grow by 1 million over next decade..

Posted on: 2018/11/13 22:45

Re: New Amazon HQ

#101

Home away from home

Joined:
2004/11/6 16:13

From Hamilton Park

Group:
Registered Users

Posts: 5438

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
I had a client make almost the exact same move. My travel time nearly doubled. So did my travel costs.

"Fighting you way through the streets?" Really?

Try DTJC to 21st & 21st in LIC vs 8th & 39th in googlemaps. Only a few minutes different. YMMV. And yes, trying to walk through the fucking gawking tourists between Herald sq and Times Sq is like combat.

The extra cost is what it is, but there's much worse commutes entirely within NYC. There's even parts of Astoria & Jackson Heights that would take about 40 min to get to the LIC waterfront, but cost a lot more than DTJC. And if you're trying to get to your weekend house in the hills, add at least an hour driving, more depending on when.

Posted on: 2018/11/13 21:50