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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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JCGuys wrote:
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Erica wrote:

My understanding from the various Q&As I've seen is that if they're unable to access your unit, they will assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables. So if some units in your building have been renovated with upgraded appliances and some have not, they will assume yours is one of the renovated ones unless they can get in to see otherwise.


Can you post a link to this Q&A? There's so much misinformation and disinformation out there, so I want to read that for myself on a reputable site.


I was referring mostly to the in-person Q&As that were held with ASI throughout the city in April. Civic Parent has a good recap of the Ward A one here: https://civicparent.org/news/jersey-ci ... tion-meetings-highlights/

There's also a JC-specific landing page on ASI's site (and their FAQ pages have a lot of useful info as well): http://asinj.com/revaluation.asp?p=current&id=359

ETA: ASI's site lists one more upcoming presentation at Lincoln High on 6/29 from 7:30PM - 8:30PM.

Posted on: 6/7 16:30
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So if your assessment comes in at $1M but the FMV should be at $850K, a person does not have the right to appeal because it's not greater than >15%? If so, that homeowner would be overpaying their taxes by $2700 (assuming 1.8%). How is that fair?

Posted on: 6/7 15:40
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Erica wrote:

My understanding from the various Q&As I've seen is that if they're unable to access your unit, they will assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables. So if some units in your building have been renovated with upgraded appliances and some have not, they will assume yours is one of the renovated ones unless they can get in to see otherwise.


Can you post a link to this Q&A? There's so much misinformation and disinformation out there, so I want to read that for myself on a reputable site.

Posted on: 6/7 14:22
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iGreg wrote:
So, in other words:

"It's a big shit sandwich and we all have to take a bite"


#Upcharge



Unless you live in Wards A,B or F...

Posted on: 6/7 14:21
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So, in other words:

"It's a big shit sandwich and we all have to take a bite"


#Upcharge


Posted on: 6/7 13:25
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, the valuation needs be out of wack by a certain percentage before you can appeal.


15% over FMV to successfully appeal.

Hey AlexC??? My lawyer is standing by with our contract!!

If you really wanted what you said you wanted you'd jump at it. But as I guessed, what you really want is to have it both ways as you've had up till now. No reval until sale? Put yourself in your new neighbor's shoes paying 2 or 3 times your tax. Fair?

Honestly, I think it's unfair that people under 62 like AlexC possibly is can't take out reverse mortgages to pay their tax. Let the market set the rate for the potentially lengthened time to payoff.

Posted on: 6/7 12:50
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If I'm not mistaken, the valuation needs be out of wack by a certain percentage before you can appeal.

Posted on: 6/7 11:31
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If I lived in a big building I wouldn't sweat the inspection. You get a chance to see what you are assessed at and your neighbors, it will in all likelihood be in line with the similar units and similar square footage, with some consideration for floor. Additionally your building may be abated, so there while they will inspect the

When you get the assessment, if you find it to be out of whack with your neighbors you will have ample time to appeal it. But in reality if it's off by 5k you are talking like $150 bucks annually. I can easily make the case that my time is working is much more beneficial then quibbling over essentially a rounding error.

Posted on: 6/7 10:47
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jcguy05 wrote:
hi for a high rise condo in downtown jersey city, if i am not home when the inspector comes will it have a negative impact on my reval tax?

the days he suppose to be here i need to work. i assume since it's a condo with many similar units, they can just use similar unit's value for my reval.

Is that accurate? i am not trying to avoid a reval, just cant leave work.


If you aren't home, the inspector will leave a note listing an alternate time. There will be a number to call if that time doesn't work for you, so that you can schedule the appointment during a more convenient window.

My understanding from the various Q&As I've seen is that if they're unable to access your unit, they will assume that your unit is at the high end of the range of comparables. So if some units in your building have been renovated with upgraded appliances and some have not, they will assume yours is one of the renovated ones unless they can get in to see otherwise.

Posted on: 6/7 10:10
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And what basis do you have to make that statement? I asked this same question earlier in this thread about what would happen if you don't let the inspector in. That was the general response. If it's a condo, there are likely identical condos in the same building. The appraised value could be very well equal to the other similar or identical units. Valid point

Contrary to popular belief, it's not like the old days and the inspectors can just make up a number. There is so much eyes on this recap, do you really think an inspector is going to inflate a number to get back at a homeowner that didn't let them in? Not what I was suggesting at all. If you were to, hypothetically, take all the comps in the area but your property was worth less than the comps, it could end up not in your favor. If anything, they should be leaving thank you notes as it makes their job easier relying on public records instead of personally inspecting.

Posted on: 6/7 9:58
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
The estimate will usually not be in your favor.


And what basis do you have to make that statement? If it's a condo, there are likely identical condos in the same building. The appraised value could be very well equal to the other similar or identical units.

Contrary to popular belief, it's not like the old days and the inspectors can just make up a number. There is so much eyes on this recap, do you really think an inspector is going to inflate a number to get back at a homeowner that didn't let them in? If anything, they should be leaving thank you notes as it makes their job easier relying on public records instead of personally inspecting.

Posted on: 6/7 9:29
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The inspector will leave a note telling you they were there and it should have a date when they will come back. From the inspections done so far it looks like they will come back on a weekend. Even if you don't let them into your place when you're home the Inspector will do an estimate based on similar properties. The estimate will usually not be in your favor.

Posted on: 6/7 8:33
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hi for a high rise condo in downtown jersey city, if i am not home when the inspector comes will it have a negative impact on my reval tax?

the days he suppose to be here i need to work. i assume since it's a condo with many similar units, they can just use similar unit's value for my reval.

Is that accurate? i am not trying to avoid a reval, just cant leave work.

Posted on: 6/6 18:13
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AlexC wrote:
I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property



Great, do I have a deal for you! I'll buy your house for what you paid for it and rent it to you indefinitely for what your current monthly expenses are. You get what you want, no increased expenses and no appreciation.


Zing!

Posted on: 6/6 15:34
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AlexC wrote:
I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property



Great, do I have a deal for you! I'll buy your house for what you paid for it and rent it to you indefinitely for what your current monthly expenses are. You get what you want, no increased expenses and no appreciation.

Posted on: 6/6 11:33
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AlexC wrote:
I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property


You are being ridiculous. But, at least you are open and honest about your selfishness.

Posted on: 6/6 4:36
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How many shootings u had in Hamilton Park lately ?

Ya need to pay appropriately for that tranquility fam.

#cash me outside how bout dat



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AlexC wrote:
I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property



Posted on: 6/6 0:17
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I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property


Quote:

tictaktoe wrote:
wtf is wrong with people who feel reval is a suffering? Who here can't understand the difference between % and $$? Please enroll in a 5th-grade class.

1. As an individual, an avg DTJC resident who has been sitting on his/her property since last reval was getting away with paying lower than the fair share of taxes in light of their increasing property value even after paying the same rate (%).

2. As a neighborhood, DTJC was paying a higher share (in $$$) of state because there are a lot more residents with higher value now and also driven by recent transactions at current market value + not to forget new construction that has come up in the last 30 years on both rental and condo side (Yes, even after the abatement, $ amount becomes substantial for e.g. 1% of $1000 > 2% of $400)

What is common in the above two statements? Those who are in DTJC and have been sitting on their property since last reval are the ones who are REALLY GETTING AWAY WITH IT so far.

So they should STFU, pay up and everyone then starts from the same line. Simple.

If the taxes are too high, probably your home is too expensive for you to live in. Then, just sell it, monetize the gain and buy a place where you can pay the taxes.



Posted on: 6/5 23:48
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What I think is particularly concerning is that many people, especially recent buyers, may not be aware of the reval and/or what the impact on their taxes would be. I highly doubt real etate brokers are being forthright about it, unless they sense the buyer has done their homework.Looking at some recent sales, there are several properties sold for.more than $1.2 mm, but with taxes less than $10k/year. I hope that these buyers are well aware what their taxes would look like after the reval!

Posted on: 6/5 21:47
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07310 wrote:
Should we look at Hoboken's taxes as an example of where our taxes will be or are they a horse of a different color?


Most people think Hoboken is a far more homogenous market, therefore the magnitude of the assessment error would be less. I never heard stories of some people paying 3x the effective rate of others, like we currently have in JC.

Posted on: 6/1 9:58
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tern wrote:
I think that the overall tax base is higher than many people realise, and therefore tax rate will be lower than 2%.
Robin.

You could be right and I hope you are, I'm expecting at least a $10,000 hit. Do the people who set the ratio each year, the guess of how the total value of all the ratables has risen, know their business or not? How close they were determines how much of a rate change to expect.

Either way this needs to be done. I hope all of us that are here nine years from now keep a vigilant eye out and don't let a delay happen again.


Should we look at Hoboken's taxes as an example of where our taxes will be or are they a horse of a different color?

Posted on: 6/1 9:33
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Reverse mortgage is an option, and not a terrible one either, but I do have some concerns about it.

The first is that with very few exceptions (notably cars), I am not a fan of borrowing to pay expenses. Borrowing to enhance the value of a home makes a lot of sense to me; borrowing to cover a tax bill, less so.

Good issue you raise that spooks a lot of people, but I think you're on the wrong side of it. It seems you're conflating secured borrowing with unsecured borrowing. Unsecured borrowing is credit cards and student loans, you get money but have nothing that could be liquidated to pay it back if need be. Secured borrowing is to buy an asset, or improve it. I know some pretty sharp people who can't stand the idea of any debt, even if it's to buy a secured asset like a house that has tremendous tax and leverage advantages.

In the case of a reverse mortgage, it's secured, by your home. It's a far cry from putting your rent on a credit card. You're not really borrowing money from a bank, you're borrowing it from yourself, with the bank making money by acting as intermediary to make a non liquid asset partially liquid until you sell it and pay them back. I do not believe borrowing 2-3% per year of an asset like a house would be financially risk, especially as the likelihood of a DTJC house not rising by at least that 2-3% yearly over the 10-20 year term seems pretty small.

Posted on: 5/26 18:00
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Dolomiti wrote:

So you hate the idea that abated properties pay less property tax, but you're fine with people underpaying property taxes because the city can't be bothered to update the valuations?
Not to mention that during much of the time she has railed against the abatements she was paying less tax per dollar value of her property than many of the abated homes. She has no shame nor compassion.

Posted on: 5/26 16:21
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Dolomiti wrote:
Let's say she sells her current place for $1.3m after taxes and loss in value, and buys a place for $750k. That's $550k left over, and will cover 110 years of the higher property taxes.

Or, she buys a $1m home. The $300k left over covers 33 years of higher property taxes.

You left out the reverse mortgage option where she extracts 2% of value every year to pay taxes plus whatever interest fees and gets to stay in her home. Reverse mortgages are not intrinsically bad. However they can be abused by the unscrupulous just like any financial product.

Reverse mortgage is an option, and not a terrible one either, but I do have some concerns about it.

The first is that with very few exceptions (notably cars), I am not a fan of borrowing to pay expenses. Borrowing to enhance the value of a home makes a lot of sense to me; borrowing to cover a tax bill, less so.

In this case, it's not horrendous, as long as... Interest rates stay low; you get a fixed rate, not adjustable; the value of the property appreciates faster than the cost of the interest, plus the tax expense.

Which brings me to the second point, namely that reverse mortgages can be complex. My parents were pretty sharp at 70, but still might find it daunting, or get suckered into a bad deal.

Posted on: 5/26 16:14
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Yvonne wrote:
After Hoboken did their revaluation in 2012 or 2013, not sure of the year, their ratable base went to $11 billion. Which means they were paying more to the county than Jersey City.

So what?

The reval is revenue neutral. If the ratable base goes up, the multiplier goes down.


Quote:
Dolomiti and Brewster want to deny the fact that your ratable based or tax abatements which are not ratables, have nothing to do with the taxes you pay.

That's because the requirement for the reval to be revenue neutral makes it largely irrelevant.

Plus, as much as we may like or dislike abatements, that's a done deal -- and it does not relieve anyone else of their tax burden.

If you do not support abatements, then you have plenty of avenues to speak out against them. Holding the reval hostage to them benefits no one.


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Tax abatements hurt the average homeowner because it hides the ratable base and cause the tax base to increase.

So you hate the idea that abated properties pay less property tax, but you're fine with people underpaying property taxes because the city can't be bothered to update the valuations?

And I might add, this counts as yet another post where you have no sympathy whatsoever for the JC residents who are overpaying their taxes because of delays in the reval. Sad!

Posted on: 5/26 16:09
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tern wrote:
I think that the overall tax base is higher than many people realise, and therefore tax rate will be lower than 2%.
Robin.

You could be right and I hope you are, I'm expecting at least a $10,000 hit. Do the people who set the ratio each year, the guess of how the total value of all the ratables has risen, know their business or not? How close they were determines how much of a rate change to expect.

Either way this needs to be done. I hope all of us that are here nine years from now keep a vigilant eye out and don't let a delay happen again.

Posted on: 5/26 14:34
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> $10,000 after reval, that's the likely property tax rate for a $500k unit. That will definitely suck.

The 2% rate is unsubstantiated speculation.

Based on how hot (scarily hot) the market is all over Jersey City right now, 2% is not what the rate is going to be. These over-taxed homes in Greenville being discussed, they are on the market now for $300,000! There aren't $100,000 homes in Jersey City anymore. Brownstones in Bergen Hill are $700,000, even remote, less-nice parts of the Heights are $400,000+

I think that the overall tax base is higher than many people realise, and therefore tax rate will be lower than 2%.

Robin.

Posted on: 5/26 13:22
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Dolomiti wrote:
Let's say she sells her current place for $1.3m after taxes and loss in value, and buys a place for $750k. That's $550k left over, and will cover 110 years of the higher property taxes.

Or, she buys a $1m home. The $300k left over covers 33 years of higher property taxes.

You left out the reverse mortgage option where she extracts 2% of value every year to pay taxes plus whatever interest fees and gets to stay in her home. Reverse mortgages are not intrinsically bad. However they can be abused by the unscrupulous just like any financial product.

But lump sum reverse mortgages, one of the products pushed hardest back in the mess, are an awful idea that puts seniors at risk rather than making them more secure.

Posted on: 5/26 13:18
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Returning to few previous issues, more likely to effect my situation than a diversionary argument with Yvonne about abated properties....

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tictaktoe wrote:
Quite circular. By the way, because of reduction of taxes from $24K to $20K gives you $4K to renovate the place!

Tictaktoe, let's complete the circle. That $4,000 from the appeal (along with hundreds of other successful appeals) becomes a tax shortfall for the City. So to close the budget gap the City increases the tax rate. Around and around in circles it goes. Presto! Soon enough your $4,000 is gone again, into the insatiable, gaping maw of The City of Jersey City. And for what, the level of services delivered here...?

Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention. If you rent in JC, and your landlord's property taxes go up, do you think that will have any effect on your rent...?

Dolomiti, I made sure to rent in an abated building - LOL. There wont be any tax increase for my landlord, at least not in my lifetime. And no, it won't be possible for the owner of the building I sold to pass along the tax increase post reval by way of increased rents. The increase would be more than 25%. The market won't bear it, particularly with all the tax abated apartments becoming available over the next few years. Put more succinctly, it's going to be the proverbial s**t show, and I've made sure it's not going to have any effect on me.

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Brewster wrote:
According to Bamb00zle he was paying 0.7% before he sold. Well played sir. Maybe. I know if Yvonne had held on instead of bailing she and Mr Yvonne could have made another 1/2 million at least. That surely would have been more than the hit it would take for the taxes doubling.

Brewster, yes, if I sit tight eventually I might make up the loss. I just don't see that happening anytime soon. IMO, it will be a long, long time before 1-4 family buildings DT like the one I sold make up the significant capital loss caused by the reval. If I'm wrong and things aren't as bad as I expect I could buy again. Nevertheless, the heightened risk of significant capital loss was enough to make me to cash out. And I know several people who have done exactly the same as me.

There are other issues I've factored in as well: school costs being shifted back to JC (bye bye Vinnie Prieto); dysfunctional and unaccountable City government; poor / absent planning and over development DT; overwhelmed, failing mass transit (PATH and NJT); the State's perilous fiscal situation; increasing interest rates; and the risk of climate change effects on DT JC; among others.

For the present, I'm more than content to watch from the sidelines, paying rent in an abated development.

Posted on: 5/26 13:08
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Nice to see we've gotten back on topic and getting useful responses-

I bought 2 houses in DT in 1986, both for under $200k apiece. With the 1988 crash, which went pretty deep for the reasons already mentioned below, I might have gone slightly underwater. But I was in for the long haul.

According to my research, 54 DT brownstones were sold in the past 12 months. That's not a lot, and they aren't making any more. And there's definitely demand from the people with the assets/incomes to afford them. Living in a brownstone is definitely different than apartments, and they're throwing those up faster than I can count. Hoboken is a decent comp. What I'm hearing from Realtors is that the demand is often from people coming from Brooklyn where the house prices are higher but the taxes are far lower than what we pay now. For someone who's looking at $1.6M properties, the additional $20k/year in taxes is only 1.25% of the purchase price. It all comes down to the bottom line...

The old adage of Location, location, location still applies. If you're a short walk to the PATH train and work in Manhattan, then DT most definitely has strong appeal. I think we might see a small dip in pricing and more brownstone sales in the near future as some longtime owners with low or fixed incomes can't afford to stay.

Posted on: 5/26 12:08
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