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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
The estimate will usually not be in your favor.


And what basis do you have to make that statement? If it's a condo, there are likely identical condos in the same building. The appraised value could be very well equal to the other similar or identical units.

Contrary to popular belief, it's not like the old days and the inspectors can just make up a number. There is so much eyes on this recap, do you really think an inspector is going to inflate a number to get back at a homeowner that didn't let them in? If anything, they should be leaving thank you notes as it makes their job easier relying on public records instead of personally inspecting.

Posted on: 6/7 9:29
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The inspector will leave a note telling you they were there and it should have a date when they will come back. From the inspections done so far it looks like they will come back on a weekend. Even if you don't let them into your place when you're home the Inspector will do an estimate based on similar properties. The estimate will usually not be in your favor.

Posted on: 6/7 8:33
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hi for a high rise condo in downtown jersey city, if i am not home when the inspector comes will it have a negative impact on my reval tax?

the days he suppose to be here i need to work. i assume since it's a condo with many similar units, they can just use similar unit's value for my reval.

Is that accurate? i am not trying to avoid a reval, just cant leave work.

Posted on: 6/6 18:13
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brewster wrote:
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AlexC wrote:
I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property



Great, do I have a deal for you! I'll buy your house for what you paid for it and rent it to you indefinitely for what your current monthly expenses are. You get what you want, no increased expenses and no appreciation.


Zing!

Posted on: 6/6 15:34
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AlexC wrote:
I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property



Great, do I have a deal for you! I'll buy your house for what you paid for it and rent it to you indefinitely for what your current monthly expenses are. You get what you want, no increased expenses and no appreciation.

Posted on: 6/6 11:33
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AlexC wrote:
I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property


You are being ridiculous. But, at least you are open and honest about your selfishness.

Posted on: 6/6 4:36
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How many shootings u had in Hamilton Park lately ?

Ya need to pay appropriately for that tranquility fam.

#cash me outside how bout dat



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AlexC wrote:
I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property



Posted on: 6/6 0:17
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I have no intentions of making a profit from the appreciation of mu property. I want to live here, not in the suburbs or anywhere else. Why should we be penalized for being in a location in which our homes appreciated 400%?

This reval should only apply to people who sell their property


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tictaktoe wrote:
wtf is wrong with people who feel reval is a suffering? Who here can't understand the difference between % and $$? Please enroll in a 5th-grade class.

1. As an individual, an avg DTJC resident who has been sitting on his/her property since last reval was getting away with paying lower than the fair share of taxes in light of their increasing property value even after paying the same rate (%).

2. As a neighborhood, DTJC was paying a higher share (in $$$) of state because there are a lot more residents with higher value now and also driven by recent transactions at current market value + not to forget new construction that has come up in the last 30 years on both rental and condo side (Yes, even after the abatement, $ amount becomes substantial for e.g. 1% of $1000 > 2% of $400)

What is common in the above two statements? Those who are in DTJC and have been sitting on their property since last reval are the ones who are REALLY GETTING AWAY WITH IT so far.

So they should STFU, pay up and everyone then starts from the same line. Simple.

If the taxes are too high, probably your home is too expensive for you to live in. Then, just sell it, monetize the gain and buy a place where you can pay the taxes.



Posted on: 6/5 23:48
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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What I think is particularly concerning is that many people, especially recent buyers, may not be aware of the reval and/or what the impact on their taxes would be. I highly doubt real etate brokers are being forthright about it, unless they sense the buyer has done their homework.Looking at some recent sales, there are several properties sold for.more than $1.2 mm, but with taxes less than $10k/year. I hope that these buyers are well aware what their taxes would look like after the reval!

Posted on: 6/5 21:47
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07310 wrote:
Should we look at Hoboken's taxes as an example of where our taxes will be or are they a horse of a different color?


Most people think Hoboken is a far more homogenous market, therefore the magnitude of the assessment error would be less. I never heard stories of some people paying 3x the effective rate of others, like we currently have in JC.

Posted on: 6/1 9:58
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brewster wrote:
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tern wrote:
I think that the overall tax base is higher than many people realise, and therefore tax rate will be lower than 2%.
Robin.

You could be right and I hope you are, I'm expecting at least a $10,000 hit. Do the people who set the ratio each year, the guess of how the total value of all the ratables has risen, know their business or not? How close they were determines how much of a rate change to expect.

Either way this needs to be done. I hope all of us that are here nine years from now keep a vigilant eye out and don't let a delay happen again.


Should we look at Hoboken's taxes as an example of where our taxes will be or are they a horse of a different color?

Posted on: 6/1 9:33
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Reverse mortgage is an option, and not a terrible one either, but I do have some concerns about it.

The first is that with very few exceptions (notably cars), I am not a fan of borrowing to pay expenses. Borrowing to enhance the value of a home makes a lot of sense to me; borrowing to cover a tax bill, less so.

Good issue you raise that spooks a lot of people, but I think you're on the wrong side of it. It seems you're conflating secured borrowing with unsecured borrowing. Unsecured borrowing is credit cards and student loans, you get money but have nothing that could be liquidated to pay it back if need be. Secured borrowing is to buy an asset, or improve it. I know some pretty sharp people who can't stand the idea of any debt, even if it's to buy a secured asset like a house that has tremendous tax and leverage advantages.

In the case of a reverse mortgage, it's secured, by your home. It's a far cry from putting your rent on a credit card. You're not really borrowing money from a bank, you're borrowing it from yourself, with the bank making money by acting as intermediary to make a non liquid asset partially liquid until you sell it and pay them back. I do not believe borrowing 2-3% per year of an asset like a house would be financially risk, especially as the likelihood of a DTJC house not rising by at least that 2-3% yearly over the 10-20 year term seems pretty small.

Posted on: 5/26 18:00
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Dolomiti wrote:

So you hate the idea that abated properties pay less property tax, but you're fine with people underpaying property taxes because the city can't be bothered to update the valuations?
Not to mention that during much of the time she has railed against the abatements she was paying less tax per dollar value of her property than many of the abated homes. She has no shame nor compassion.

Posted on: 5/26 16:21
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Dolomiti wrote:
Let's say she sells her current place for $1.3m after taxes and loss in value, and buys a place for $750k. That's $550k left over, and will cover 110 years of the higher property taxes.

Or, she buys a $1m home. The $300k left over covers 33 years of higher property taxes.

You left out the reverse mortgage option where she extracts 2% of value every year to pay taxes plus whatever interest fees and gets to stay in her home. Reverse mortgages are not intrinsically bad. However they can be abused by the unscrupulous just like any financial product.

Reverse mortgage is an option, and not a terrible one either, but I do have some concerns about it.

The first is that with very few exceptions (notably cars), I am not a fan of borrowing to pay expenses. Borrowing to enhance the value of a home makes a lot of sense to me; borrowing to cover a tax bill, less so.

In this case, it's not horrendous, as long as... Interest rates stay low; you get a fixed rate, not adjustable; the value of the property appreciates faster than the cost of the interest, plus the tax expense.

Which brings me to the second point, namely that reverse mortgages can be complex. My parents were pretty sharp at 70, but still might find it daunting, or get suckered into a bad deal.

Posted on: 5/26 16:14
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Yvonne wrote:
After Hoboken did their revaluation in 2012 or 2013, not sure of the year, their ratable base went to $11 billion. Which means they were paying more to the county than Jersey City.

So what?

The reval is revenue neutral. If the ratable base goes up, the multiplier goes down.


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Dolomiti and Brewster want to deny the fact that your ratable based or tax abatements which are not ratables, have nothing to do with the taxes you pay.

That's because the requirement for the reval to be revenue neutral makes it largely irrelevant.

Plus, as much as we may like or dislike abatements, that's a done deal -- and it does not relieve anyone else of their tax burden.

If you do not support abatements, then you have plenty of avenues to speak out against them. Holding the reval hostage to them benefits no one.


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Tax abatements hurt the average homeowner because it hides the ratable base and cause the tax base to increase.

So you hate the idea that abated properties pay less property tax, but you're fine with people underpaying property taxes because the city can't be bothered to update the valuations?

And I might add, this counts as yet another post where you have no sympathy whatsoever for the JC residents who are overpaying their taxes because of delays in the reval. Sad!

Posted on: 5/26 16:09
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tern wrote:
I think that the overall tax base is higher than many people realise, and therefore tax rate will be lower than 2%.
Robin.

You could be right and I hope you are, I'm expecting at least a $10,000 hit. Do the people who set the ratio each year, the guess of how the total value of all the ratables has risen, know their business or not? How close they were determines how much of a rate change to expect.

Either way this needs to be done. I hope all of us that are here nine years from now keep a vigilant eye out and don't let a delay happen again.

Posted on: 5/26 14:34
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> $10,000 after reval, that's the likely property tax rate for a $500k unit. That will definitely suck.

The 2% rate is unsubstantiated speculation.

Based on how hot (scarily hot) the market is all over Jersey City right now, 2% is not what the rate is going to be. These over-taxed homes in Greenville being discussed, they are on the market now for $300,000! There aren't $100,000 homes in Jersey City anymore. Brownstones in Bergen Hill are $700,000, even remote, less-nice parts of the Heights are $400,000+

I think that the overall tax base is higher than many people realise, and therefore tax rate will be lower than 2%.

Robin.

Posted on: 5/26 13:22
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Dolomiti wrote:
Let's say she sells her current place for $1.3m after taxes and loss in value, and buys a place for $750k. That's $550k left over, and will cover 110 years of the higher property taxes.

Or, she buys a $1m home. The $300k left over covers 33 years of higher property taxes.

You left out the reverse mortgage option where she extracts 2% of value every year to pay taxes plus whatever interest fees and gets to stay in her home. Reverse mortgages are not intrinsically bad. However they can be abused by the unscrupulous just like any financial product.

But lump sum reverse mortgages, one of the products pushed hardest back in the mess, are an awful idea that puts seniors at risk rather than making them more secure.

Posted on: 5/26 13:18
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Returning to few previous issues, more likely to effect my situation than a diversionary argument with Yvonne about abated properties....

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tictaktoe wrote:
Quite circular. By the way, because of reduction of taxes from $24K to $20K gives you $4K to renovate the place!

Tictaktoe, let's complete the circle. That $4,000 from the appeal (along with hundreds of other successful appeals) becomes a tax shortfall for the City. So to close the budget gap the City increases the tax rate. Around and around in circles it goes. Presto! Soon enough your $4,000 is gone again, into the insatiable, gaping maw of The City of Jersey City. And for what, the level of services delivered here...?

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Dolomiti wrote:
Oh, I forgot to mention. If you rent in JC, and your landlord's property taxes go up, do you think that will have any effect on your rent...?

Dolomiti, I made sure to rent in an abated building - LOL. There wont be any tax increase for my landlord, at least not in my lifetime. And no, it won't be possible for the owner of the building I sold to pass along the tax increase post reval by way of increased rents. The increase would be more than 25%. The market won't bear it, particularly with all the tax abated apartments becoming available over the next few years. Put more succinctly, it's going to be the proverbial s**t show, and I've made sure it's not going to have any effect on me.

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Brewster wrote:
According to Bamb00zle he was paying 0.7% before he sold. Well played sir. Maybe. I know if Yvonne had held on instead of bailing she and Mr Yvonne could have made another 1/2 million at least. That surely would have been more than the hit it would take for the taxes doubling.

Brewster, yes, if I sit tight eventually I might make up the loss. I just don't see that happening anytime soon. IMO, it will be a long, long time before 1-4 family buildings DT like the one I sold make up the significant capital loss caused by the reval. If I'm wrong and things aren't as bad as I expect I could buy again. Nevertheless, the heightened risk of significant capital loss was enough to make me to cash out. And I know several people who have done exactly the same as me.

There are other issues I've factored in as well: school costs being shifted back to JC (bye bye Vinnie Prieto); dysfunctional and unaccountable City government; poor / absent planning and over development DT; overwhelmed, failing mass transit (PATH and NJT); the State's perilous fiscal situation; increasing interest rates; and the risk of climate change effects on DT JC; among others.

For the present, I'm more than content to watch from the sidelines, paying rent in an abated development.

Posted on: 5/26 13:08
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Nice to see we've gotten back on topic and getting useful responses-

I bought 2 houses in DT in 1986, both for under $200k apiece. With the 1988 crash, which went pretty deep for the reasons already mentioned below, I might have gone slightly underwater. But I was in for the long haul.

According to my research, 54 DT brownstones were sold in the past 12 months. That's not a lot, and they aren't making any more. And there's definitely demand from the people with the assets/incomes to afford them. Living in a brownstone is definitely different than apartments, and they're throwing those up faster than I can count. Hoboken is a decent comp. What I'm hearing from Realtors is that the demand is often from people coming from Brooklyn where the house prices are higher but the taxes are far lower than what we pay now. For someone who's looking at $1.6M properties, the additional $20k/year in taxes is only 1.25% of the purchase price. It all comes down to the bottom line...

The old adage of Location, location, location still applies. If you're a short walk to the PATH train and work in Manhattan, then DT most definitely has strong appeal. I think we might see a small dip in pricing and more brownstone sales in the near future as some longtime owners with low or fixed incomes can't afford to stay.

Posted on: 5/26 12:08
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After Hoboken did their revaluation in 2012 or 2013, not sure of the year, their ratable base went to $11 billion. Which means they were paying more to the county than Jersey City. Jersey City ratable base was not quite $6 billion then. Dolomiti and Brewster want to deny the fact that your ratable based or tax abatements which are not ratables, have nothing to do with the taxes you pay. Tax abatements hurt the average homeowner because it hides the ratable base and cause the tax base to increase. It is also the reason Secaucus in the late 1990s took JC to court. Secaucus at the time paid the second highest amount to the county, which is a lot for a town of 12,000 citizens then. It is now 16,000. Secaucus did not give out tax abatements. The result of this lawsuit it the reason we now give an extra 5% to the county on tax abatements. Let me clear up some facts, I am familiar with this lawsuit since I spoke to the mayor of Secaucus on this matter several times. The tax abatement we give is 100% to the city and an extra 5% goes to the county. It is not 95% to the city and 5% to the county.

Posted on: 5/26 11:53
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JCBORN wrote:
Is this right?

with the example someone gave below.
Zillow estimates its value at $1.6 million. She currently pays around $11,200 in property taxes, and should be paying $30k.

Would this person be able to sell her home at $1.6M if her taxes are now $30k?

Maybe.

On one hand, it is reasonable to assume that the higher tax bill makes the property less desirable.

On the other, there is very little inventory in JC, and high demand. And it's not like there will be a bunch of similar properties in JC with dramatically lower tax rates.

If she refuses to pay more than $10k in property taxes, and wants to stay in the same neighborhood, she will need to seriously downsize; after the reval, that's the likely property tax rate for a $500k unit. That will definitely suck.

Let's say she sells her current place for $1.3m after taxes and loss in value, and buys a place for $750k. That's $550k left over, and will cover 110 years of the higher property taxes.

Or, she buys a $1m home. The $300k left over covers 33 years of higher property taxes.


Quote:
I am looking to buy a home in Jersey City. Would you recommend I wait a year to see how this all plays out? From what I am reading the home values in JC went down in 1988 after the last reval.

There are too many variables, such as your current home's value, or your rent, or all sorts of contingencies that will affect prices and your own ability to handle the mortgage, to make such specific advice via a web forum.

What I can say is that it seems unlikely that home prices will continue to appreciate between now and when the reval hits.

Plus... That was 1988. JC was different then.

You should look at Hoboken instead. In 2013 they did a reval after 17 years, with a market much more like JC today than JC in 1988. Lots of development; fairly hot market; limited inventory.

What happened? Property values jumped 12% in the year after the reval, with the average deed growing by $47k. Prices have continued to rise every year since.

While some individuals will choose to sell after the reval, I'm not sure you can count on a dramatic drop in prices at that time.

Posted on: 5/26 10:59
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Getting back to the reval inspection……

It is painless. The inspector was nice he came in with his iPad and as he was typing/clicking he gave a quick look into every room. He then asked to see the basement he looked around and said wow this is not a finished basement. (ok so I am a hoarder big deal…lol) He took one picture of the furnace area and said that was it. I asked about the outside measurement and he said he did it a few days ago. Oh yeah I had to sign the iPad.

A neighbor was not home at the time and got a yellow note on his door. The note gave a new date and time for the inspection and also had a contact number in case he wanted to change it. The appointment was for the evening nice if you work.

One good tip on the Yvonne’s video was that if you have any roof leaks or basement flooding when it rains let the inspector know.

I just thought of something he didn’t seem to inspect the condition of the wiring or pipes. Unless he took note of it while in the basement.


Posted on: 5/26 10:41
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MDM wrote:
Quote:

JCBORN wrote:

From what I am reading the home values in JC went down in 1988 after the last reval. Was this because of the reval or was it because the market in general was not doing very well (1987 market crash- Black Monday)?


Real estate crashed in '88 and didn't hit bottom until about 1997. Property was stupid cheap here in JC... but interest rates were high and it was tough to get a loan (the collapse of the Savings & Loan industry). Damn near impossible to get a construction loan to renovate, unless you went the 203k loan route.. which I would rather set myself on fire than go through that process again.

It was way more than the property re-evaluation that caused prices to drop. The biggest factor was the lending. It is a lot harder to afford a place when your 30 year fixed rate is around 8% vs. 2.5%.


Thank God for Bill Clinton.

Posted on: 5/26 10:11
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JCBORN wrote:

From what I am reading the home values in JC went down in 1988 after the last reval. Was this because of the reval or was it because the market in general was not doing very well (1987 market crash- Black Monday)?


Real estate crashed in '88 and didn't hit bottom until about 1997. Property was stupid cheap here in JC... but interest rates were high and it was tough to get a loan (the collapse of the Savings & Loan industry). Damn near impossible to get a construction loan to renovate, unless you went the 203k loan route.. which I would rather set myself on fire than go through that process again.

It was way more than the property re-evaluation that caused prices to drop. The biggest factor was the lending. It is a lot harder to afford a place when your 30 year fixed rate is around 8% vs. 2.5%.

Posted on: 5/26 9:54
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JCBORN wrote:
Is this right?

with the example someone gave below.
Zillow estimates its value at $1.6 million. She currently pays around $11,200 in property taxes, and should be paying $30k.

Would this person be able to sell her home at $1.6M if her taxes are now $30k? I would expect the value to go down once the taxes are increased.

I am looking to buy a home in Jersey City. Would you recommend I wait a year to see how this all plays out?
From what I am reading the home values in JC went down in 1988 after the last reval. Was this because of the reval or was it because the market in general was not doing very well (1987 market crash- Black Monday)?


I would wait for sure. You may even be able to pick up a property with a lien on it for a steal LOL

Posted on: 5/26 8:45
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Is this right?

with the example someone gave below.
Zillow estimates its value at $1.6 million. She currently pays around $11,200 in property taxes, and should be paying $30k.

Would this person be able to sell her home at $1.6M if her taxes are now $30k? I would expect the value to go down once the taxes are increased.

I am looking to buy a home in Jersey City. Would you recommend I wait a year to see how this all plays out?
From what I am reading the home values in JC went down in 1988 after the last reval. Was this because of the reval or was it because the market in general was not doing very well (1987 market crash- Black Monday)?

Posted on: 5/26 8:24
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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mfadam wrote:
how is there not more noise from every overtaxed owner? You'd think class action lawyers would be all over this one.


Great question. My only theory is we have been so beaten into submission by these government systems it never occurs to us that we're being ripped off. It doesn't help that the system is so opaque with seeming nonsense numbers like assessments and rates that appear to have no bearing to reality unless you dive deep in.

I wonder if a lawsuit would get any traction, they'll just say "if you thought you were overtaxed why didn't you just appeal?" It took me over a decade to think to appeal the tax on my Heights property, and I'm relatively sophisticated about these things compared to a lot of non-DT owners.

But the realtors had to know. Why wouldn't they tell buyers of overtaxed property to appeal? If you bought a really overtaxed one you'd get lawyer letters offering to appeal for you, but if you'd had it for decades no one would ever know or tell you.

Yvonne, STOP THE BULLSHIT ALREADY!! The revaluation has never included abated property, and never should. They're not in this game!! They are 2 separate revenue streams. It's ONLY about making the tax AMONG THE RATABLES fair. Its comparable to 2 contractors getting paid, how one divides their money up among the employees has NOTHING to do with the way the other does. If every abated property were made ratable tomorrow, IT WOULD NOT CHANGE THE REVAL, only the rate that would be struck afterwards. STOP THE BULLSHIT!!

Posted on: 5/25 22:36
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Yvonne wrote:
Let me repeat, JC will never have a fair revaluation as long as $2.7 billion worth of property is excluded from the process. After the revaluation that $2.7 billion will probably be close to $11 billion. So what is the $11 billion? It is tax abated properties. This $11 billion does not include schools, churches, cemeteries, or public property. It includes commerical and housing that has a tax abatement. I can understand 5 year tax abatements. But anything longer is cheating the public.


The revaluation of ratable properties has NOTHING to do with abatements. It's about fairness between taxpayers on those ratable properties. You once again blow smoke to obscure the issues, and pointedly ignore Dolomiti's request for the slightest bit of compassion for the people who have overpaid while you and others underpaid.

And don't start with that same stupid bullshit "I paid the taxes I was billed". You didn't. You stated that you appealed them 5 times in a row, pleading that you had no walls. But it doesn't seem that you ever got reassessed after completing the renovation, like you should have. Did you? So you paid taxes for another 20 odd years as if your fabulous brownstone were gutted out. Nicely done.


You are wrong. I suggest you ask Duda who is now doing the assessment. He will tell you all properties are assessed but only regular properties will be added to the ratable base. Tax abatement will be excluded. The ratable base will change from $6.2 to 26 billion, tax abatements will not be added to this formula. I actually asked him but I did not include comments in my video due to the 30 minute time for Comcast. Actually Fulop mentioned this several years ago at a caucus meeting. He said several tax abatement expired which caused the ratable base to increase. When Schundler was mayor the ratable base was $5.1 after tax appeals, it is now $6.2 billion. The higher the ratable base the lower the tax rate or in JC case it will hide the spending. Healy had a $5.7 billion ratable base.

Posted on: 5/25 22:28
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Re: 2017 Reval ~ Property Inspections
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Yvonne wrote:
Let me repeat, JC will never have a fair revaluation as long as $2.7 billion worth of property is excluded from the process.

Yet another attempt to change the subject.

It is the delay that has resulted in people who own $1.5 million dollar homes, paying 1/3 what they should.

And abatements didn't delay the reval.

And yet again! You show no sympathy whatsoever for the people who overpay on their taxes. Sad.

Posted on: 5/25 22:24
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