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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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XANADU part 2, JC edition...

Posted on: 3/24 13:34
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Anyone saying this land is worthless is missing the fact that a plot half as large, across the street, sold for $35 million dollars TWO YEARS AGO.


Exactly!

That sale was for 7.5 acres and has a bunch of serious environmental conditions affecting value. (or $4.7 million an acre).

Fast forward two-years, the Sci-Tech City lands is 16 acres... if put on the private market for highest and best use, this land comes in conservatively at $50 million+ maybe $75 million. Again, I still strongly support Sci-Tech City project even at a land valuation of $100 million, but why do people tell lies and say the land has no value. Seriously?

Posted on: 3/24 12:42
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Anyone saying this land is worthless is missing the fact that a plot half as large, across the street, sold for $35 million dollars TWO YEARS AGO.

And dolomiti, do you think Fulop is going to make people from downtown drive Grand/Pacific/Johnston/Phillips to get there, when NJ has already signed off on the Jersey Avenue connection and another developer is planning to build thousands of units that will benefit from that?

And yes, if the donors were donating the money-why would JC have to wait for (whoever it is) to be paid back first?

And in the revised plan, JC will be getting half the 'profits' (if any) from the get go.

It's a jello plan. You can't grab it, you can't examine it.

Posted on: 3/24 12:28
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While I fully support this project, I'm frustrated by the rose-colored glasses worn by Dolomiti. Why toe the party line still even as this is approved, and look at the serious issues facing this project.

My prediction

1) This will not be built in in current form as LSC will come nowhere near the amount of funding needed for construction AND there is no bank in the world crazy enough that will lend on such shaky financial projections.

2) Even if this somehow gets built, it will never turn a profit due to accounting tricks and the nature of a non-profit business. There will be decisions made to limit what's considered profit even if they come close.

I do want to see this built, but please show me a pro-forma or similar development anywhere in the world where this has happened.

I suspect the plot of land will just remain vacant for nearly a decade until a more feasible plan is put in place.

Even though I fully support this project, watch I be attacked by pro Fulop minions for not drinking the kool-aid. LOL Why can't people just be real and honest about this situation instead of the age of alternative facts.

Any feedback, good or bad, on the above is welcomed.





Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

stc4blues wrote:
I still don't understand what's going on with this $78M. De we have:

1. Doners' giving $78M to a non-profit entity, which then
2. loans it to a for-profit entity (against the value of the land?),
3. which must then repay the loan to the non-profit entity. Hence,
4. The City's 50/50 split of the net doesn't kick in until that loan is repaid.

Is that what's going on?

That's not my understanding.

1. LSC fundraises and gets $78m from donors
2. LSC will invite investors for another $55m worth
3. LSC takes out loans for the rest of the project
4. Nothing has to be repaid to the donors
5. The city starts getting paid for the land, after the project makes $78m in profits; they are paid 50% of subsequent profits.
6. Once the land is paid off, the city's share drops to 20%.

Posted on: 3/24 12:28
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

stc4blues wrote:
I still don't understand what's going on with this $78M. De we have:

1. Doners' giving $78M to a non-profit entity, which then
2. loans it to a for-profit entity (against the value of the land?),
3. which must then repay the loan to the non-profit entity. Hence,
4. The City's 50/50 split of the net doesn't kick in until that loan is repaid.

Is that what's going on?

That's not my understanding.

1. LSC fundraises and gets $78m from donors
2. LSC will invite investors for another $55m worth
3. LSC takes out loans for the rest of the project
4. Nothing has to be repaid to the donors
5. The city starts getting paid for the land, after the project makes $78m in profits; they are paid 50% of subsequent profits.
6. Once the land is paid off, the city's share drops to 20%.


In my opinion, not getting paid back until $78m in profits was a poor deal for JC. JC should be getting a % of revenues from day 1. It doesn't have to be 50% - it could even be 1-5%.

But the current deal just incentivizes LSC to delay profitability. Or redefine what profit is (using accounting tricks).

Posted on: 3/24 12:18
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Re: Wow - LSC's Updated Plans for SciTech Scity
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Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

stc4blues wrote:
I still don't understand what's going on with this $78M. De we have:

1. Doners' giving $78M to a non-profit entity, which then
2. loans it to a for-profit entity (against the value of the land?),
3. which must then repay the loan to the non-profit entity. Hence,
4. The City's 50/50 split of the net doesn't kick in until that loan is repaid.

Is that what's going on?

That's not my understanding.

1. LSC fundraises and gets $78m from donors
2. LSC will invite investors for another $55m worth
3. LSC takes out loans for the rest of the project
4. Nothing has to be repaid to the donors
5. The city starts getting paid for the land, after the project makes $78m in profits; they are paid 50% of subsequent profits.
6. Once the land is paid off, the city's share drops to 20%.


And since there has been no formal appraisal of the land itself, we don't know how long step #5 will last, if it ever gets to step #5, because they have to generate $78 million in profits first. Fat chance of that given the LSC's overall track record and bloated bureaucracy, which will only get more bloated with this project.

Posted on: 3/24 11:47
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Quote:

stc4blues wrote:
I still don't understand what's going on with this $78M. De we have:

1. Doners' giving $78M to a non-profit entity, which then
2. loans it to a for-profit entity (against the value of the land?),
3. which must then repay the loan to the non-profit entity. Hence,
4. The City's 50/50 split of the net doesn't kick in until that loan is repaid.

Is that what's going on?

That's not my understanding.

1. LSC fundraises and gets $78m from donors
2. LSC will invite investors for another $55m worth
3. LSC takes out loans for the rest of the project
4. Nothing has to be repaid to the donors
5. The city starts getting paid for the land, after the project makes $78m in profits; they are paid 50% of subsequent profits.
6. Once the land is paid off, the city's share drops to 20%.

Posted on: 3/24 11:24
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Jersey City also had a similar agreement with Newport. The city was to share in its profits. Nothing came of it so former Mayor Schundler sold this agreement back to Newport for $2 million that he placed in the budget. I believe something similar will happen except we will not even get $2 million. Nonprofits do not make money and this place has been struggling for quite some time.

Posted on: 3/24 11:22
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Monroe wrote:
@dolomiti, the Jersey Avenue is a done deal....

Show me the paperwork.

Better yet, show me the bridge.


Quote:
Here's Fulop on this

The city would share in revenue only after profits hit $78 million. That is the amount in donations from LSC's donor base that LSC expects to divert to SciTech Scity to get the project moving, according to Fulop.

Now why wouldn't the donors just give the 'donation' to the LSC new project? Why does it need to be paid back?

Holy ****.

The donors ARE giving their donations to the LSC for the project.

THE DONORS ARE NOT GETTING ANYTHING BACK.

Read it again. The phrase "PAID BACK" is never used in that paragraph, or in Fulop's post.

Nothing in there says the donors get repaid. The deal is structured so the City only starts getting paid back after the project has turned a profit of $78m. That number could have been $50m or $20m or $150m.

Again, I have no idea why they picked $78m, I'd say they should have selected a different number to avoid confusing people.

The more legitimate complaint is that it's going to take a long, long time for the city to be repaid. While I for one do not care, at least that complaint makes sense.

Posted on: 3/24 11:16
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I think this is great for the city and for Liberty State park, and the fact that Sam Pesin has come out in support of it is a good thing. The idea of Jersey City becoming an education center by leveraging the already substantial investment in LSC, along with its great location and proximity to the HBLR make it a real potential to create educational opportunities for our local kids.

I also like the idea that it provides a development barrier to commercial and/or high density development that will encroach onto the park. Having a science center right next to a natural area seems to me to be a great fit.

Posted on: 3/24 11:12
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@dolomiti, if it's not a loan, why does whoever put up the $78 million get it paid back (ahead of the city, who is giving up a very valuable piece of land without which the project is impossible?)

How many times and ways do I have to say it?

THEY ARE NOT GETTING REPAID.

That's why it is called a donation. When I donate money to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, I do not expect to get it back, it's not a loan, I am not going to get repaid.

Nothing in anything I've seen suggests that the donors will be paid back. Nothing. Nothing.


Quote:
As far as the costs of operating a school, if only the building is 'free' shouldn't JC project what the other costs are...

Good gravy. Does that really matter? Should we start closing existing schools because having more schools incurs some additional costs?

Yes, it will cost a bit more to add a school. But opening a new school does not add students to the district. We have to pay for their education one way or another. The hope is that the added costs for the school will be accompanied by improved outcomes for the students, which also enhances the reputation of JC.

Posted on: 3/24 11:08
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I still don't understand what's going on with this $78M. De we have:

1. Doners' giving $78M to a non-profit entity, which then
2. loans it to a for-profit entity (against the value of the land?),
3. which must then repay the loan to the non-profit entity. Hence,
4. The City's 50/50 split of the net doesn't kick in until that loan is repaid.

Is that what's going on?

Posted on: 3/24 10:07
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good! glad its going forward. criticizing the city for "giving away" undesirable, unused land that would otherwise sit vacant anyway is myopic when factoring the long term financial and educational benefits of this project.

Posted on: 3/24 9:47
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The Memorandum of Understanding which was not available on the City website or the JCRA website is complicated and promises to provide full employment for lawyers for many years should this plan go south. Isn't the litigation with Hyman over the embankment still ongoing? Didn't the litigation with Mocco over Liberty Harbor North last 15 years?

Posted on: 3/24 9:17
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This is a great project. Happy to hear it is moving forward.

Posted on: 3/24 3:04
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Which council members voted YES? Let's get their names out there.


I haven't seen the results of the second reading, but at the first reading, Yun and Boggiano voted against it. The rest voted in favor. It was a 6-3 vote at the second reading, and I presume Yun and Boggiano voted the same way as before.

Posted on: 3/23 23:04
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Which council members voted YES? Let's get their names out there.

Posted on: 3/23 19:20
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Posted on: 3/23 19:15
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so are the Council Members patsies at the table or are they getting something out of this?

The deal is laughably bad and riddled with "if/then" assumptions that will never come true.

JC residents will have plenty of time to consider the Council's motives when they are stuck for 3 light cycles at Jersey and Grand...

Posted on: 3/23 17:57
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Posted on: 3/23 17:42
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After 5 hours, Jersey City Council moves $280M SciTech Scity project forward

HUDSON COUNTY VIEW - By John Heinis 


Posted on: 3/23 15:27
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terrencemcd wrote:
Quote:

K-Lo2 wrote:
Yvonne, can you be more specific about what type of public school? Magnets and charters are public schools.


The city told me it would be a traditional public school.

Council President Lavarro said the JCRA would possible vote to amend the redeveloper agreement with SciTeh Scity tonight (6 pm, 30 Montgomery) to make that specific in the agreement.


SO THEY TOLD YOU A BALLS ASS LIE ?

Posted on: 3/23 4:16
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Monroe wrote:
@dolomiti, the Jersey Avenue is a done deal, has been-besides, do you think it won't happen if the LSC land grab goes through, lol?

Yes, it's not there but if anyone thinks that a real estate group spent $35 million dollars for the property in question that it wouldn't have access to both downtown AND the nearby Turnpike entrance/exit?

And enough with the 'it's not a loan'. From the murky details we can see, the LSC will hustle for donations, give the money to itself, then pay itself back with 'profits', ahead of paying the city back for the land.

Here's Fulop on this

The city would share in revenue only after profits hit $78 million. That is the amount in donations from LSC's donor base that LSC expects to divert to SciTech Scity to get the project moving, according to Fulop.

Now why wouldn't the donors just give the 'donation' to the LSC new project? Why does it need to be paid back?

Paid back, as in 'I owe someone something'.

Or, 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today'. Which, of course, never happens in Popeye, and won't happen here either.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY IF THIS LAND GRAB GOES THROUGH?
FIX WAS IN...IT'S WAS A DONE DEAL.

JCRA BOARD, CHAIRED BY CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT LAVARRO, EVEN PREEMPTIVELY PASSED THE JCRA RESOLUTION #17-03-26 IN A UNANIMOUS 7-0 VOTE TO TRANSFER IT TO LSC PRIOR TO WED.'S COUNCIL MEETING/PUBLIC HEARING. [EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD NO LEGAL STANDING TO DO SO.]

DUE PROCESS IN JC IS DEADER THAN A DOOR-NAIL UNDER FULOP.

EXCELLENT QUESTION ABOUT 78MM TO BE RAISED THROUGH PHILANTHROPY....WHY DOES SUCH A STATE OF THE ART PROJECT NOT WARRANT DIRECT DONATION ? [WRITE-OFF TO THE DONOR REMAINS THE SAME]
INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW

Posted on: 3/23 4:04
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Monroe wrote:
The city is on its heels, changing shit up hours before the vote!

Is this the way to present a development that will end up costing a third of a billion dollars?

http://hudsoncountyview.com/ahead-of- ... ases-details-of-the-plan/

COLOUR ME SURPRISED THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION EVEN BOTHERED TO PROVIDE ANYTHING AT ALL,,, SINCE EVERYONE KNOWS THE FIX IS IN WHEN FULOP WANTS SOMETHING, SO HIS 'RUBBER STAMP' COUNCIL MINIONS ABIDE, NO MATTER HOW RIDICULOUS IT MAKES THEM APPEAR.
[perhaps their disingenuous 'effort' is simply Campaign Playbook in an election year]
Not to mention him eliminating 16 Acres of Prime Real Estate from Property Tax Rate-ables in this time of looming REVAL.

Posted on: 3/23 3:21
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Heated debate over $276M Liberty Science Center expansion plan

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on March 22, 2017 at 9:26 PM, updated March 23, 2017 at 12:24 AM

JERSEY CITY -- Hundreds of people filled the City Council chambers tonight as the council mulled whether to approve a transfer of 12 acres of city-owned land for the creation of a $276 million science and technology complex near Liberty Science Center.

In one of the most contentious public debates in recent memory, dozens of speakers spent hours praising the project, called SciTech Scity, or condemning the city's plan to give the land for a nominal fee. More than two hours after tonight's public hearing began, the line of speakers waiting to air their thoughts stretched about 15 people deep.

SciTech Scity, a new arm of Liberty Science Center, would include labs, conference rooms, a hotel, residences for visiting scientists and a K-12 public school. Mayor Steve Fulop has said it would be "a landmark for the region."

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... cience_center_expans.html


Posted on: 3/23 1:10
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The city is on its heels, changing shit up hours before the vote!

Is this the way to present a development that will end up costing a third of a billion dollars?

http://hudsoncountyview.com/ahead-of- ... ases-details-of-the-plan/

Posted on: 3/22 18:22
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http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_in_jersey_city_aim.html

This, of course, will happen, especially with the Mill Creek project and whatever happens with the SciTech land.

Posted on: 3/22 17:49
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Oh- thanks for the correction Mia!

Posted on: 3/22 16:34
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@dolomiti, the Jersey Avenue is a done deal, has been-besides, do you think it won't happen if the LSC land grab goes through, lol?

Yes, it's not there but if anyone thinks that a real estate group spent $35 million dollars for the property in question that it wouldn't have access to both downtown AND the nearby Turnpike entrance/exit?

And enough with the 'it's not a loan'. From the murky details we can see, the LSC will hustle for donations, give the money to itself, then pay itself back with 'profits', ahead of paying the city back for the land.

Here's Fulop on this

The city would share in revenue only after profits hit $78 million. That is the amount in donations from LSC's donor base that LSC expects to divert to SciTech Scity to get the project moving, according to Fulop.

Now why wouldn't the donors just give the 'donation' to the LSC new project? Why does it need to be paid back?

Paid back, as in 'I owe someone something'.

Or, 'I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today'. Which, of course, never happens in Popeye, and won't happen here either.

Posted on: 3/22 16:05
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brewster wrote:
I gotta say I'm not seeing a great argument against the leasing idea even if the payment is only nominal. In the event the whole thing goes under, covenants attached to the sale seem to be much harder to enforce than terms of a lease.



Go under ?

Like the failure LSC is, even with their $31.75 admission fees lining the pockets of this Williamsburg DOUCHEBAG who took the liberty to write himself a $400k year salary:


Once this property gets into the hands of a contributor, ugh mean developer buddy of Fulops' - kiss that land goodbye.

Wonder how much hotels room there are gonna rent for ?


This is a total fking Land Grab.





Posted on: 3/22 15:42
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