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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Science recognize two genders, it is the reason these doctors filed the lawsuit for the HHS mandate. Luckily, they won so they don't have to butchered anyone. But I am sure, there will be doctors who don't mind butchering people, after all Planned Parenthood exists because some doctors do butcher children.

Posted on: 1/3 13:53
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Not sure why the Amish are any more the standard than the Navajo, which recognized four genders before Western culture quashed their norms.

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/ ... o-belief-in-four-genders/

Posted on: 1/3 13:49
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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dtjcview wrote:
...and they look the same the waist down for a substantial time inside the womb. The point of the articles linked - gender isn't binary based on physical attributes and chromosomes alone.


And if she puts on Superman costume, she could fly.

Posted on: 1/3 13:34
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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...and they look the same the waist down for a substantial time inside the womb. The point of the articles linked - gender isn't binary based on physical attributes and chromosomes alone.

Posted on: 1/3 13:08
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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I said something similar dtjcview, from the waist up she does look like a boy, however, she does have a xx, not a xy. She will turn into a woman not a man. Men do not have a period, get pregnant and have their bodies produce milk for the infant. And as I mentioned before, where are the transgender children in the Amish culture?

Posted on: 1/3 12:44
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Yvonne wrote:
JerseyMom, this is the reason doctors joined into that lawsuits concerning the HHS mandate. They know through experience this will not work. I know by working with students you do more harm by lying to children.
You do not lie about death or gender issue. In the past children were lied to about adoption, now that issue is in the past but it appears this issue has taken its place.
http://brnow.org/News/October-2016/Do ... e-HHS-transgender-mandate


Plenty of compelling science stating the opposite.
Quote:

http://factmyth.com/factoids/all-mammals-start-as-female/
http://factmyth.com/factoids/sex-and- ... s-in-humans-arent-binary/

Why is it thought that some people are born gay or born transgender? We all start life as being the same sex. As we grow and our genes express, a wide spectrum of influences affects fetal development and the neonate. Many of these factors have to do with the Y chromosome and hormones, which affect the brain. Since a wide variety of influences impact the blastocyst and fetus, it is reasonable to expect a wide spectrum of results in the neonate.


Posted on: 1/3 12:17
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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JerseyMom, this is the reason doctors joined into that lawsuits concerning the HHS mandate. They know through experience this will not work. I know by working with students you do more harm by lying to children.
You do not lie about death or gender issue. In the past children were lied to about adoption, now that issue is in the past but it appears this issue has taken its place.
It is amazing how this issue does not appear in the Amish culture. Only in liberal America.

http://brnow.org/News/October-2016/Do ... e-HHS-transgender-mandate

Posted on: 1/3 12:04
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Yvonne wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:

No, I am not suggesting anything you are suggesting. But in the world of reality, puberty will set in and this girl will become a young woman not a young man. So if she is not prepare for reality she will fall into great depression. Now, with her short haircut she looks like the boys in her class today. Tomorrow is a different story.


wow yvonne, you sure do live in a black and white world void of empathy. You sadly come across as hard-hearted and bitter - You get my 'cold fish award'.


When puberty hits, the boys in her class voices will change, but not hers. Facial hair will start, but not hers, and the appearance of an "Adams Apple" will start. This will never happen to her. If the school allows her to use the boys room, she will not find santiary napkins there when her period starts. Is it any wonder these children are depressed? The bubble of their fantasy starts to burst. What did Dr. King say? "The truth will set you free."

What I find interesting is how the left back transgender ideology but attacked the white woman who claims she is black.


Yvonne, no one is setting young Joe out to sea on a raft equipped without pads (or tampons). He likely has a medical team and advocates if he begins to transition in a medical sense. When Joe gets a little older, there is a process that begins to curtail puberty - you should really arm yourself with some basic knowledge before you claim to know how transition works in youngsters.

And to compare, apples to apples, the Rachel Dolezal story and the Joe Maldonado story? Yeah, the truth will set you free, dear.


Posted on: 1/3 11:27
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Yvonne wrote:

No, I am not suggesting anything you are suggesting. But in the world of reality, puberty will set in and this girl will become a young woman not a young man. So if she is not prepare for reality she will fall into great depression. Now, with her short haircut she looks like the boys in her class today. Tomorrow is a different story.


wow yvonne, you sure do live in a black and white world void of empathy. You sadly come across as hard-hearted and bitter - You get my 'cold fish award'.


When puberty hits, the boys in her class voices will change, but not hers. Facial hair will start, but not hers, and the appearance of an "Adams Apple" will start. This will never happen to her. If the school allows her to use the boys room, she will not find santiary napkins there when her period starts. Is it any wonder these children are depressed? The bubble of their fantasy starts to burst. What did Dr. King say? "The truth will set you free."

What I find interesting is how the left back transgender ideology but attacked the white woman who claims she is black.

Posted on: 1/3 9:34
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Yvonne wrote:

No, I am not suggesting anything you are suggesting. But in the world of reality, puberty will set in and this girl will become a young woman not a young man. So if she is not prepare for reality she will fall into great depression. Now, with her short haircut she looks like the boys in her class today. Tomorrow is a different story.


wow yvonne, you sure do live in a black and white world void of empathy. You sadly come across as hard-hearted and bitter - You get my 'cold fish award'.

Posted on: 1/3 5:09
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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bike, I understand what you are saying but this is not about scouting, it is about this child not getting the help she deserves. There is a difference between pretend and reality.


wow ! so now you are suggesting this kid is pretending or attention seeking - Is this kid a family member or are you the psychiatrist for the kid ? You just said it yourself, at such a young age kids look much the same from the waist up, so let them play together - just like a kid might want to play with a tonka truck or a doll ... just let them have fun and feel comfortable ... no pigeon holing a kid's personality or OTHER PEOPLE'S expectations.


No, I am not suggesting anything you are suggesting. But in the world of reality, puberty will set in and this girl will become a young woman not a young man. So if she is not prepare for reality she will fall into great depression. Now, with her short haircut she looks like the boys in her class today. Tomorrow is a different story.

Posted on: 1/2 19:22
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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bike, I understand what you are saying but this is not about scouting, it is about this child not getting the help she deserves. There is a difference between pretend and reality.


wow ! so now you are suggesting this kid is pretending or attention seeking - Is this kid a family member or are you the psychiatrist for the kid ? You just said it yourself, at such a young age kids look much the same from the waist up, so let them play together - just like a kid might want to play with a tonka truck or a doll ... just let them have fun and feel comfortable ... no pigeon holing a kid's personality or OTHER PEOPLE'S expectations.

Posted on: 1/1 18:22
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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mscottc wrote:
Here's the problem I see with people like you Yvonne. You impose your lifestyle choices on others. You have no idea what a mother and father go through with their child. If they spent the last 8 years (or whatever the age of their child may be) observing their child, garnering professional opinions and talking to the child, then they are the ones most prepared to make judgement, or if not the most prepared, they surely are the ones that have the legal and moral rights till proven differently.
Conservatives want a one answer solution. Liberals know that each situation is different, and want the whole situation explored by the people who are involved. You personally have no idea what this young (born) female (Self decided) older male is about. You have NO right to judge, only the individuals involved do.
The same is true with reproductive choices, and the right to die choice.
I really wish you religious based conservatives would go crawl under a rock and leave us alone.



What, I am saying - you do not lie to children. The girl who thinks she is a boy will never be a male. To tell her she can change her gender is doing her a disservice. Unlike many here I worked with students for 30 years, they want the truth not lies. Even as early as eight, children know when adults/teachers lie to them. You should hear what young children say about adults and truth, they know the difference.
It was common to lie to children before the 1960s about adoption, when they found out they were depressed. This is similar, this girl has a fantasy that is not real and the lies just feeds into this fantasy.


Of course you don't lie to children, no one is advocating that you do. But when a child says s/he doesn't feel right in his/her own skin, with whatever words or phrases they use, you need to listen to that child. Science has proven (do you even believe in science?). over the last few decades, that that chromosomes and genitals don't always match a person's psychological make-up. That's real, whether or not you choose to believe it. Yes, one of the wonderful things about science, it doesn't matter how you feel, it's what can be proven right or wrong that counts. So no matter how you feel, it's been proven that boys can wind up being girls or girls can wind up being boys. Sure it's rare, and before any surgical/physical change is done, one should exhaust all other possibilities. But don't ever deny it, no matter what your religion tells you.

In the case being discussed here, only the child in question, the parents, and the professionals they've consulted know for sure what the reality is. You don't.

How that Boy Scout troop elects to react is their business, but even with my father being an Eagle Scout, I will never vouch for the Boy Scouts. They are a bigoted group. (Please note that I didn't say "racist," there are other forms of bigotry.) BTW, I feel the same about the Salvation Army.

Posted on: 1/1 17:05
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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psyop wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
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psyop wrote:
I'm not insulting, I am stating fact.

Who gives a f@$k whether someone uses a screen name or real, doesn't make you less of a bigot/idiot.


"Everyone knows who I am, I don't hide things. It shows a lack of character to attack someone using a phony name.


I don't have facebook or give a sh*t about it.

"Everyone knows who I am,"-Yvonne
No one cares.


#IgnoreYvonne2017







This is the second time you broke your statement, you cannot ignore me if you post about me. I suggest you get a hobby.

bike, I understand what you are saying but this is not about scouting, it is about this child not getting the help she deserves. There is a difference between pretend and reality. Before puberty, boys and girls from the waist up do look alike. The only way for this girl to continue with this pretend is with hormones. If hormones replacing drugs are damaging to females and can lead to cancer then male hormones replacing drugs probably have the same effect. It is the reason why I made that comment about Superman, putting on the costume does not make anyone a super hero and pretending you are a different gender does not make you that gender. I am hoping that child gets the therapy she needs.

Posted on: 1/1 8:21
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Yvonne wrote:
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psyop wrote:
I'm not insulting, I am stating fact.

Who gives a f@$k whether someone uses a screen name or real, doesn't make you less of a bigot/idiot.


"Everyone knows who I am, I don't hide things. It shows a lack of character to attack someone using a phony name.


I don't have facebook or give a sh*t about it.

"Everyone knows who I am,"-Yvonne
No one cares.


#IgnoreYvonne2017






Posted on: 12/31 23:42
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/us/ ... fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I'm betting it will only be a matter of time before things get changed and society will not be segregating kids (yes kids, considering Scouts USA have co-ed Venturer programs when kids hit 13 years of age) based on their gender. Society took too long to deal with equality for color and sexuality, but eventually it got there.


You lost that bet, a lawsuit now protects doctors from the HHS mandate concerning forcing doctors to perform medical procedure including treating children with hormones. It is against many doctors judgement. http://www.becketfund.org/wp-content/ ... rwell-Complaint-Filed.pdf


Yvonne this isn't a situation of doctors being allowed to perform medical procedures on children; treating children with hormones. We are talking about a child that's transgender wanting to attend scouts with other kids they consider friends and once 13 years of age will be, regardless of gender (America Scouts - Venturers)

This isn't a game one bets on, but rather a child's human rights and as for the Texas Ruling, it's only applies in Texas, where right wing christians seem to congregate (This doesn't mean hormone treatment will not apply to 18 year olds) ... maybe Yvonne, you're living in the wrong State!

What's also interesting is that more religious the State is, the more they also want less gun control ... I guess those States could never use the 'peace loving State on their licence plates!

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Posted on: 12/31 22:12
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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psyop wrote:
I'm not insulting, I am stating fact.

Who gives a f@$k whether someone uses a screen name or real, doesn't make you less of a bigot/idiot.


1. You are not following your own statement.
2. It does make a difference about screen names, it is the reason facebook and other places requires a real name. Everyone knows who I am, I don't hide things. It shows a lack of character to attack someone using a phony name.

Posted on: 12/31 20:53
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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I'm not insulting, I am stating fact.

Who gives a f@$k whether someone uses a screen name or real, doesn't make you less of a bigot/idiot.

Posted on: 12/31 20:35
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Luckily your bigoted views are confined to a message board(or multiple ones).

#IgnoreYvonne2017


Apparently, you are not following your own statement. Is it an insult, not really? If you cannot use your own name when you insult, then you have no guts.

Posted on: 12/31 20:22
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Luckily your bigoted views are confined to a message board(or multiple ones).

#IgnoreYvonne2017

Posted on: 12/31 20:17
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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mscottc wrote:
Here's the problem I see with people like you Yvonne. You impose your lifestyle choices on others. You have no idea what a mother and father go through with their child. If they spent the last 8 years (or whatever the age of their child may be) observing their child, garnering professional opinions and talking to the child, then they are the ones most prepared to make judgement, or if not the most prepared, they surely are the ones that have the legal and moral rights till proven differently.
Conservatives want a one answer solution. Liberals know that each situation is different, and want the whole situation explored by the people who are involved. You personally have no idea what this young (born) female (Self decided) older male is about. You have NO right to judge, only the individuals involved do.
The same is true with reproductive choices, and the right to die choice.
I really wish you religious based conservatives would go crawl under a rock and leave us alone.



What, I am saying - you do not lie to children. The girl who thinks she is a boy will never be a male. To tell her she can change her gender is doing her a disservice. Unlike many here I worked with students for 30 years, they want the truth not lies. Even as early as eight, children know when adults/teachers lie to them. You should hear what young children say about adults and truth, they know the difference.
It was common to lie to children before the 1960s about adoption, when they found out they were depressed. This is similar, this girl has a fantasy that is not real and the lies just feeds into this fantasy.

Posted on: 12/31 20:04
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Here's the problem I see with people like you Yvonne. You impose your lifestyle choices on others. You have no idea what a mother and father go through with their child. If they spent the last 8 years (or whatever the age of their child may be) observing their child, garnering professional opinions and talking to the child, then they are the ones most prepared to make judgement, or if not the most prepared, they surely are the ones that have the legal and moral rights till proven differently.
Conservatives want a one answer solution. Liberals know that each situation is different, and want the whole situation explored by the people who are involved. You personally have no idea what this young (born) female (Self decided) older male is about. You have NO right to judge, only the individuals involved do.
The same is true with reproductive choices, and the right to die choice.
I really wish you religious based conservatives would go crawl under a rock and leave us alone.


Posted on: 12/31 19:44
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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This post says the court struck down the mandate, JerseyMom.
http://www.becketfund.org/franciscan-alliance-transgender-win-pr/
Regardless, adults are still lying to children who have these desires to be another gender. You don't tell children putting on a Superman costume they can leap off a building, so why lie about gender? It is not true.


I stand corrected - the ruling was just released today.

Posted on: 12/31 19:31
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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This post says the court struck down the mandate, JerseyMom.
http://www.becketfund.org/franciscan-alliance-transgender-win-pr/
Regardless, adults are still lying to children who have these desires to be another gender. You don't tell children putting on a Superman costume they can leap off a building, so why lie about gender? It is not true.

Posted on: 12/31 19:00
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/us/ ... fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I'm betting it will only be a matter of time before things get changed and society will not be segregating kids (yes kids, considering Scouts USA have co-ed Venturer programs when kids hit 13 years of age) based on their gender. Society took too long to deal with equality for color and sexuality, but eventually it got there.


You lost that bet, a lawsuit now protects doctors from the HHS mandate concerning forcing doctors to perform medical procedure including treating children with hormones. It is against many doctors judgement. http://www.becketfund.org/wp-content/ ... rwell-Complaint-Filed.pdf


WRONG - the lawsuit hasn't been ruled on yet - and there may be changes with the new administration:

(Excerpt)

...Trump’s election could affect a suit pending in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Texas, Franciscan Alliance, Inc. v. Burwell . Christian provider groups and several states challenged what they called the “transgender mandate,” a rule interpreting Section 1557 ( 164 HCDR, 8/24/16 ).

The plaintiffs said the rule requires doctors to perform, and insurers and states to pay for, gender reassignment procedures, even when it goes against their medical judgment or religious beliefs.

The rule’s proponents say it only prohibits providers from refusing treatments that could be used to conform a patient’s physical form to his or her gender, if the provider would provide the same treatment for other reasons.

The case is on a fast track, Amiri told Bloomberg BNA. The plaintiffs have moved to block the rule’s implementation. The Northern District of Texas is a very conservative district, so the motion likely will be granted.

The plaintiffs then could file an emergency appeal in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, another conservative court. If they don’t get relief there, the plaintiffs could file a motion for emergency relief in the Supreme Court.

It would take “a quick cascade of events,” but the case could get to the Supreme Court before a Trump nominee could be seated, Amiri said.

Source

ACLU Insights on Case

Posted on: 12/31 17:58
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/us/ ... fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I'm betting it will only be a matter of time before things get changed and society will not be segregating kids (yes kids, considering Scouts USA have co-ed Venturer programs when kids hit 13 years of age) based on their gender. Society took too long to deal with equality for color and sexuality, but eventually it got there.


You lost that bet, a lawsuit now protects doctors from the HHS mandate concerning forcing doctors to perform medical procedure including treating children with hormones. It is against many doctors judgement. http://www.becketfund.org/wp-content/ ... rwell-Complaint-Filed.pdf

Posted on: 12/31 17:43
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/30/us/ ... fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

I'm betting it will only be a matter of time before things get changed and society will not be segregating kids (yes kids, considering Scouts USA have co-ed Venturer programs when kids hit 13 years of age) based on their gender. Society took too long to deal with equality for color and sexuality, but eventually it got there.

Posted on: 12/31 17:15
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
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Yvonne wrote:

"Caveman mentality?" I have no problem understanding that God created me female. I just feel sorry that this child who thinks she is just as male as the boys in her class. I wish the public would not lying to the child. No matter where you read, transgender people have a higher suicide attempt than the general public.
https://tgmentalhealth.com/basic-issue ... ransgender-mental-health/


I surmise that the high suicide attempt rate has more to do with them being persecuted, bullied, segregated and made to feel inferior by stupid, self-righteous, discriminatory behavior by asses like Monroe and yourself ... Yvonne you have no right to call yourself religious with such spite, hate and lacking any compassion, or humanity ... you are the ugly side of catholicism


No, I would not lie to a child and tell them they are male when their body is not. I just read an article where a male took hormones to transgender to female and he changed backed. He blamed the hormones for feelings of depression. If you choose to google, there are many articles on hormones and depression. By the way, hormones are dangerous. They tell women pass child bearing not to take hormone replacement because it leads to cancer. In order for this child to become male, it is a life time of hormone replacement drugs. What a sad story.

Posted on: 12/31 9:21
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
#59
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CatDog wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
'Mental'? You bigot, using a term like that. Go to your safe space and learn to harness your microagressions!


You are mental - with a mind-set that you and Yvonne have, unless you are receiving medication. I'd like to know how standing up for human rights is deemed bigotry!

The pair of you can't just spew out your comments without them being rebutted.


An 8 year old girl doesn't have a 'human right' to join the Cub Scouts, which are for boys. I couldn't join Hadassah, either, because I'm neither a woman or Jewish. But if I identify as a woman and Jewish I guess you could make a case they'd have to accept me!


Both you and Yvonne have a 'caveman' mentality - Coed scouts have existed for over a decade in Canada and other western nations: Some might like to live in the past and sometimes I wish we still performed lobotomies, because I would like to nominate two from JClist to have the procedure done to.

http://wiki.scouts.ca/en/Scouting_Myths

http://www.scouts.ca/sites/default/fi ... ars-of-Co-Ed-Scouting.pdf
Coed scouts exist in the US too, run by the BSA actually:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing/About/venturing.aspx

Working to organize a Venture Scout group in the kid's area (and getting the program expanded to younger ages) would probably go a lot further towards helping this child than harassing the BSA into begrudgingly letting the kid in (which isn't going to happen either way). But that would take too much effort, of course.


The original intent by the mom was to ask that her son continue in the troop he had been involved with and established within with his group of friends. He was already a member and enjoying himself - until some parents from the troop complained to the BSA. Then the troop asked Joe to leave.

Another troop in NJ has already reached out and asked Joe to join their group. Joe has expressed that he isn't interested in joining the Secaucus troop again because of the treatment he's received (can you blame him).

I think the overall goal here is not to harass, but to get the BSA to have a more welcoming and contemporary policy toward transgender youth - something which the GSA has done really well.

Posted on: 12/31 0:20
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Re: Secaucus Boy Kicked Out of Scouts Because He's Transgender (Petition)
#58
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Quote:

fat-ass-bike wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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fat-ass-bike wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
'Mental'? You bigot, using a term like that. Go to your safe space and learn to harness your microagressions!


You are mental - with a mind-set that you and Yvonne have, unless you are receiving medication. I'd like to know how standing up for human rights is deemed bigotry!

The pair of you can't just spew out your comments without them being rebutted.


An 8 year old girl doesn't have a 'human right' to join the Cub Scouts, which are for boys. I couldn't join Hadassah, either, because I'm neither a woman or Jewish. But if I identify as a woman and Jewish I guess you could make a case they'd have to accept me!


Both you and Yvonne have a 'caveman' mentality - Coed scouts have existed for over a decade in Canada and other western nations: Some might like to live in the past and sometimes I wish we still performed lobotomies, because I would like to nominate two from JClist to have the procedure done to.

http://wiki.scouts.ca/en/Scouting_Myths

http://www.scouts.ca/sites/default/fi ... ars-of-Co-Ed-Scouting.pdf
Coed scouts exist in the US too, run by the BSA actually:

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Venturing/About/venturing.aspx

Working to organize a Venture Scout group in the kid's area (and getting the program expanded to younger ages) would probably go a lot further towards helping this child than harassing the BSA into begrudgingly letting the kid in (which isn't going to happen either way). But that would take too much effort, of course.

Posted on: 12/30 23:36
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