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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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AMo wrote:
Just like blood hounds were bred to smell, pits were bred to fight. As nice as many pits are, if they're badly reared or just snap, they can do incalculable damage to both humans and other dogs. Play tug of war with a pit as I've done. It'll pull your arm out of its joint. They are that muscular. In Jersey City, where many are acquired for protection or sport, and not to be loving house pets, we have a problem. I would support mandatory licensing for pits and other "fighting" breeds. It would be illegal to own one unless you receive training and have insurance. It's the humane thing to do.


Training, licensing and insurance seems reasonable. Outright banning a breed does not.


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Posted on: 2016/10/5 11:51
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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AMo wrote:
Just like blood hounds were bred to smell, pits were bred to fight. As nice as many pits are, if they're badly reared or just snap, they can do incalculable damage to both humans and other dogs. Play tug of war with a pit as I've done. It'll pull your arm out of its joint. They are that muscular. In Jersey City, where many are acquired for protection or sport, and not to be loving house pets, we have a problem. I would support mandatory licensing for pits and other "fighting" breeds. It would be illegal to own one unless you receive training and have insurance. It's the humane thing to do.


Training, licensing and insurance seems reasonable. Outright banning a breed does not.

Posted on: 2016/10/5 10:48
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Just like blood hounds were bred to smell, pits were bred to fight. As nice as many pits are, if they're badly reared or just snap, they can do incalculable damage to both humans and other dogs. Play tug of war with a pit as I've done. It'll pull your arm out of its joint. They are that muscular. In Jersey City, where many are acquired for protection or sport, and not to be loving house pets, we have a problem. I would support mandatory licensing for pits and other "fighting" breeds. It would be illegal to own one unless you receive training and have insurance. It's the humane thing to do.

Posted on: 2016/10/5 8:47
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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GrovePath wrote:
Insurance companies tend to deny coverage for the first four breeds on this list most often, experts say.

But as a general rule, insurance companies tend to resist covering these 11 types of dogs — or any mix of these breeds:

Pit Bulls & Staffordshire Terriers
Doberman Pinschers
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Chows
Great Danes
Presa Canarios
Akitas
Alaskan Malamutes
Siberian Huskies
Wolf-hybrids

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cateyhill ... and-renters/#1db5099826ec


The vast majority of dog owners own a mutt. Good to see they're not on the list.

http://www.animalfarmfoundation.org/pages/Multimedia-Infographics

Posted on: 2016/10/5 8:33
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Insurance companies tend to deny coverage for the first four breeds on this list most often, experts say.

But as a general rule, insurance companies tend to resist covering these 11 types of dogs — or any mix of these breeds:

Pit Bulls & Staffordshire Terriers
Doberman Pinschers
Rottweilers
German Shepherds
Chows
Great Danes
Presa Canarios
Akitas
Alaskan Malamutes
Siberian Huskies
Wolf-hybrids

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cateyhill ... and-renters/#1db5099826ec

Posted on: 2016/10/5 6:46
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Yvonne wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Owning a car is not a choice for many people.


Really? So why is it that you own a car and I don't?

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It is the only means of transportation but owning a pit bull is a choice.


Really? So how do I get to work every day without a car?


Second chance programs try to get their clients into construction work. Construction work requires driver's license. Usually that means a car. Just because you can get to work by walking or mass transit, most of Americans cannot. https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rit ... _survey/daily_travel.html


Geez, you really do have a double digit IQ, don't you? Construction often requires a drivers license because of your ability to drive vehicles used by the company for tasks such as hauling materials. They absolutely don't care how you get to the site - whether it is public transportation, walking, biking or something else. Same thing about other jobs recommending a DL.

Posted on: 2016/10/4 17:20
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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dtjcview wrote:
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Rotties, mastiffs and doberman bites are way more dangerous than a pit.


Not sure which is the worst - all can kill -- but I do think that most places that have bans -- also ban Rotties, mastiffs. I know many insurance companies are starting to ban these breeds - it is just too bad we don't have strong politicians taking a stand on this issue -- even after countless children and older people have been killed.


One of my favorite stats is this one from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steffen ... ies-and-st_b_8112394.html

Quote:

Maybe more striking is the fact that you are FAR more likely to die from eating a hot dog (choking from inhalation of food) than from being attacked by an actual dog.

Death by a real dog- 1 in 116,448.

Death by a hot dog- 1 in 3,375.





Nice one!


All of the above is dead on.

Posted on: 2016/10/4 17:17
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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dtjcview wrote:

Rotties, mastiffs and doberman bites are way more dangerous than a pit.


Not sure which is the worst - all can kill -- but I do think that most places that have bans -- also ban Rotties, mastiffs. I know many insurance companies are starting to ban these breeds - it is just too bad we don't have strong politicians taking a stand on this issue -- even after countless children and older people have been killed.


So guys, I want to highlight this for other dog owners that like large dog breeds - reread the post above. Even if you don't like pit bulls and can't see yourself ever owning one - realize that the people against pit bulls will NOT stop there. They will come after your Rottie, your German Shepard, your Mastiff, your Saint Bernard, your Dobie, and so on. All for something that doesn't make the top 1000 causes of death. This is why all of us should be donating to orgs fighting BSL. I certainly do.

Posted on: 2016/10/4 17:13
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:

Rotties, mastiffs and doberman bites are way more dangerous than a pit.


Not sure which is the worst - all can kill -- but I do think that most places that have bans -- also ban Rotties, mastiffs. I know many insurance companies are starting to ban these breeds - it is just too bad we don't have strong politicians taking a stand on this issue -- even after countless children and older people have been killed.


One of my favorite stats is this one from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steffen ... ies-and-st_b_8112394.html

Quote:

Maybe more striking is the fact that you are FAR more likely to die from eating a hot dog (choking from inhalation of food) than from being attacked by an actual dog.

Death by a real dog- 1 in 116,448.

Death by a hot dog- 1 in 3,375.





Nice one!

Posted on: 2016/10/4 16:07
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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GrovePath wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:

Rotties, mastiffs and doberman bites are way more dangerous than a pit.


Not sure which is the worst - all can kill -- but I do think that most places that have bans -- also ban Rotties, mastiffs. I know many insurance companies are starting to ban these breeds - it is just too bad we don't have strong politicians taking a stand on this issue -- even after countless children and older people have been killed.


One of my favorite stats is this one from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steffen ... ies-and-st_b_8112394.html

Quote:

Maybe more striking is the fact that you are FAR more likely to die from eating a hot dog (choking from inhalation of food) than from being attacked by an actual dog.

Death by a real dog- 1 in 116,448.

Death by a hot dog- 1 in 3,375.




Posted on: 2016/10/4 15:50
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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dtjcview wrote:

Rotties, mastiffs and doberman bites are way more dangerous than a pit.


Not sure which is the worst - all can kill -- but I do think that most places that have bans -- also ban Rotties, mastiffs. I know many insurance companies are starting to ban these breeds - it is just too bad we don't have strong politicians taking a stand on this issue -- even after countless children and older people have been killed.

Posted on: 2016/10/4 14:57
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Owning a car is not a choice for many people.


Really? So why is it that you own a car and I don't?

Quote:
It is the only means of transportation but owning a pit bull is a choice.


Really? So how do I get to work every day without a car?


Second chance programs try to get their clients into construction work. Construction work requires driver's license. Usually that means a car. Just because you can get to work by walking or mass transit, most of Americans cannot. https://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rit ... _survey/daily_travel.html

Posted on: 2016/10/4 12:58
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Yvonne wrote:
Owning a car is not a choice for many people.


Really? So why is it that you own a car and I don't?

Quote:
It is the only means of transportation but owning a pit bull is a choice.


Really? So how do I get to work every day without a car?

Posted on: 2016/10/4 12:38
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Owning a car is not a choice for many people. It is the only means of transportation but owning a pit bull is a choice. It is not the only breed of dog. By the way, the Hudson County welfare/job program encourage its clients to get driver license for jobs.

Posted on: 2016/10/4 12:05
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Pebble wrote:
What an amazing thread. The dog argument can be used for just about anything. I think it also allows for a certain level of intelligence to be revealed. Given that, one of my dogs is dumb as a box of rocks. However, he shows far more intelligence while cleaning his junk than I've ever seen Yvonne demonstrate while typing.


Since I put the safety of babies and the elderly first, I considered your comment a compliment. Dangerous dog breeds should be outlawed, human safety comes first. This is probably the only good thing Montreal has done. There is no First Amendment guaranteed.


Safety of babies and the elderly first. Totally agree.

And since cars are more dangerous than pitbulls, we will ban them first, right?


Definitely, they're gone.

Also, while less than 40 people per year die on average from dog attacks, around 50 people per year on average die from lightening strikes. So we should CLEARLY ban people from being outside in thunderstorms. Think of the children!

Also, flu shots have to be mandatory - not getting them kill far more children/old people.

Indeed, the best way to make sure everyone is safe is actually to have everyone live in padded rooms and only leave to exercise in special areas, while being fed specially prepared diets.

Posted on: 2016/10/4 11:13
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Pebble wrote:
What an amazing thread. The dog argument can be used for just about anything. I think it also allows for a certain level of intelligence to be revealed. Given that, one of my dogs is dumb as a box of rocks. However, he shows far more intelligence while cleaning his junk than I've ever seen Yvonne demonstrate while typing.


Since I put the safety of babies and the elderly first, I considered your comment a compliment. Dangerous dog breeds should be outlawed, human safety comes first. This is probably the only good thing Montreal has done. There is no First Amendment guaranteed.


Safety of babies and the elderly first. Totally agree.

And since cars are more dangerous than pitbulls, we will ban them first, right?

Posted on: 2016/10/4 10:45
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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dntshootthepianist wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Granted there are dog lovers here. But pit bull do kill. http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities.php


you're right, yvonne. they do. and women kill too. i say we get rid of all the women in jersey city just to be safe. want me to help you pack? i've got some extra boxes.


You are one of the people who put dogs above people. Here are some facts: In the 11-year period of 2005 through 2015, canines killed 360 Americans. Pit bulls contributed to 64% (232) of these deaths. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers contributed to 76% of the total recorded deaths.

Like all hunting animals, they normally go after children and the elderly. I am one of the people who put people first over dogs.




It's a matter of upbringing. Just as it is with criminals. Many of you on this board should understand that. It's economics! Just throw money at the problem. Oh and raise taxes!

Posted on: 2016/10/4 9:28
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Pebble wrote:
What an amazing thread. The dog argument can be used for just about anything. I think it also allows for a certain level of intelligence to be revealed. Given that, one of my dogs is dumb as a box of rocks. However, he shows far more intelligence while cleaning his junk than I've ever seen Yvonne demonstrate while typing.


Since I put the safety of babies and the elderly first, I considered your comment a compliment. Dangerous dog breeds should be outlawed, human safety comes first. This is probably the only good thing Montreal has done. There is no First Amendment guaranteed.

Posted on: 2016/10/4 9:21
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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What an amazing thread. The dog argument can be used for just about anything. I think it also allows for a certain level of intelligence to be revealed. Given that, one of my dogs is dumb as a box of rocks. However, he shows far more intelligence while cleaning his junk than I've ever seen Yvonne demonstrate while typing.

Posted on: 2016/10/4 7:04
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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devilsadvocate wrote:

This is by no means a pit bull specific point. Any large, strong dog can kill a person, let alone a child. If any one of a large number of large breeds created are abused they absolutely can rip someone's face off.
...


Rotties, mastiffs and doberman bites are way more dangerous than a pit.

http://www.petcomments.com/what-dog-has-the-strongest-bite/

BSL targets the dog, not their irresponsible owners. The only regulation that makes sense - is to force dog owners to carry liability insurance. That would help weed out the bad owners, and provide a true measure of risk.


I like this idea

Posted on: 2016/10/3 18:04
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Sorry, I don't think children and old people should be a statistical in the deaths by dog bites. Certain breeds are more violent and their bites are more deadly. Pit bulls should be outlaw.
Here is an article where a pit bull kills a 3 day old baby.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/po ... y/?utm_term=.6ef00bf3626b

Posted on: 2016/10/3 17:58
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Yvonne wrote:
Granted there are dog lovers here. But pit bull do kill. http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities.php


A) Google the site for background on this one. The owner has an agenda.

B) Of course they kill. So do lawnmowers, cigarettes, junk food, cars, bikes, skiis (yes, people die every year on ski hills), alcohol, I could go on and on. And so do a bunch of other dog breeds. My basic q is - so what?

Posted on: 2016/10/3 13:58
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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devilsadvocate wrote:

This is by no means a pit bull specific point. Any large, strong dog can kill a person, let alone a child. If any one of a large number of large breeds created are abused they absolutely can rip someone's face off.
...


Rotties, mastiffs and doberman bites are way more dangerous than a pit.

http://www.petcomments.com/what-dog-has-the-strongest-bite/

BSL targets the dog, not their irresponsible owners. The only regulation that makes sense - is to force dog owners to carry liability insurance. That would help weed out the bad owners, and provide a true measure of risk.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 13:58
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Cars kill people, too. Way more than pit bulls actually. Ban cars.


Yeah, dog related deaths are like deaths related to lawnmower accidents - they happen every year, but they're incredibly rare. When I say rare, I mean deaths due to lightening strikes are several orders of magnitude greater. Cars, on the other hand, are one of the most common causes of death.

As much as I hate nanny state BS, we would get much more "lives saved" by banning various sugary drinks that are terrible for people to reduce heart attacks/strokes than banning particular dog breeds. Of course, in reality all of these efforts are an attempt to "Disneyfy" modern life and basically eliminate any danger from living, when in reality this is a futile pursuit.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 13:55
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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You must not have visited any shelters in Hudson county. They are all over run with pitbull mix's. Most are very loving.




And why do you think they are overrun with Pits ?

It's a shame to end a life and horrible to generalize about one specific breed, but statistics are quite factual about this type of dog.

Guess you have never seen one maul someones kid or pet in public - it would change your opinion real quick.





Maybe because the same inner city trash that raises them to be mean also isn't responsible about dog ownership generally? You really should read about the statistics before you make these comments. Point is, they could train any number of breeds to do exactly the same thing. The dog just has to be large, strong and trainable.


au contraire mon frère, many who think their loving companion could never be capable of ripping a child's face off - find out the hard way.

sort of like a terrier digging holes in the park because of it's genetically predisposition to do so.





This is by no means a pit bull specific point. Any large, strong dog can kill a person, let alone a child. If any one of a large number of large breeds created are abused they absolutely can rip someone's face off.

Pit bulls end up in the news exactly because a) there are so many of them, and b) they're that much more likely to be abused. Walk in any ghetto and look around - most dogs are pit bulls. You seem them walked on chains, sometimes with scars all over them. The fact that people get mauled considering that isn't surprising. What is surprising is that it doesn't happen more often considering that this is one of the most popular breeds.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 13:51
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Yvonne wrote:

You are one of the people who put dogs above people.


i do like my dog better than some people, that is true. but mostly, i don't like it when people say

All cops,
ALL muslims,
ALL black people,
and yes, all (whatever- dogs, welfare recipients, etc.)

there are great dogs of all colors, etc. and dangerous/agressive dogs as well. and when i volunteered at liberty humane i did recommend some dogs were put down.

i just try to take every person/dog/whatever on a case by case basis. and yeah, it's none of my business to argue in an online forum. so i do apologize if i offended you. just think with a little more compassion and a little less generalization we could all do a lot better. we all have our opinion. that's okay. that's why it's cool we live in this country. i'm not gonna reply in this thread any more. i hope you have a great day, yvonne.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 13:13
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Cars kill people, too. Way more than pit bulls actually. Ban cars.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 12:53
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Yvonne wrote:
Granted there are dog lovers here. But pit bull do kill. http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities.php


you're right, yvonne. they do. and women kill too. i say we get rid of all the women in jersey city just to be safe. want me to help you pack? i've got some extra boxes.


You are one of the people who put dogs above people. Here are some facts: In the 11-year period of 2005 through 2015, canines killed 360 Americans. Pit bulls contributed to 64% (232) of these deaths. Combined, pit bulls and rottweilers contributed to 76% of the total recorded deaths.

Like all hunting animals, they normally go after children and the elderly. I am one of the people who put people first over dogs.

Posted on: 2016/10/3 12:45
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Yvonne wrote:
Granted there are dog lovers here. But pit bull do kill. http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities.php


you're right, yvonne. they do. and women kill too. i say we get rid of all the women in jersey city just to be safe. want me to help you pack? i've got some extra boxes.

Posted on: 2016/10/2 9:29
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Re: Montreal Bans New Pit Bull Ownership After Deadly Mauling
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Granted there are dog lovers here. But pit bull do kill. http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities.php

Posted on: 2016/10/1 13:52
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