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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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Downtown Transit Hubs Symbols of 9/11 Redevelopment Efforts, and Excess that Surrounded it

By Jose Martinez
Updated Friday, September 2, 2016 at 09:12 PM EDT

Fifteen years after September 11th, a pair of gleaming new transit hubs built for the Port Authority and the MTA stand as symbols of the push to rebuild Lower Manhattan.

But both arrived years later than planned, and with far bigger price tags.

The Port Authority's nearly $4 billion PATH station opened in March.

The agency's own executive director has called it a "symbol of excess," which is a sentiment echoed by critics.

"And had we to do it over again, especially with the dire transportation infrastructure needs that the Port Authority and the region have, I think we could have found a way to do it for a couple of billion dollars, had a fitting building and put that additional money into other transportation infrastructure," said Port Authority Executive Director Patrick Foye.

"I think we were indulging an architect rather than investing in transportation," said Mitchell Moss, the director of the Rudin Center for Transportation.
The MTA's $1.4 billion Fulton Center opened a block from the Trade Center site in November 2014.

Construction of that station also ran behind schedule and over budget.

Both stations were largely paid for with federal funds.

Video:
http://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/t ... s-that-surrounded-it.html

Posted on: 2016/9/3 2:12
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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JadedJC wrote:
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hero69 wrote:
there was what some might call a mall before 9/11 at the wtc, but i would call it just a collection of stores. in any event, imo, the bathrooms before 9/11 were more PATH-centric and regualrly policed by PA cops, frequented by hobos and cleaned by PA hired staff. the new bathrooms are more mall-centric - no place for the homeless to wash up.


In the '80s through early '90s, I recall there was a pretty depressing collection of dumpy stores just one level below street level. By the late '90s, though, they had gone noticeably upscale with more suburban shopping mall-type stores. I remember there was a Crabtree & Evelyn, Borders, Nine West and maybe Banana Republic. The PATH restrooms were located on the level between the train platform and the shops, adjacent to the saddest looking bar in the world with the saddest looking patrons. I used the restrooms on numerous occasions pre-9/11 and they were pretty clean. The odd thing was I never once saw a homeless person in there. The bar - I think it was called Commuter Bar (or something with an equal lack of imagination) - never seemed to have more than two or three patrons in there. Those who needed a stiff drink to face that PATH ride home, I suppose.


It was called the Commuter Cafe and it was a great "old man" bar. Perfect if you wanted a drink and didn't feel like leaving the bldg and walking ten mins to O'Hara's.
You could also get a drink at Akbars on that same level. Both were just before the turnstiles if I recall.

Posted on: 2016/8/23 14:29
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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The Apple Store is very busy, had to bring my laptop in for repairs. They said they are selling lots of product their inventories are low.

Posted on: 2016/8/22 22:10
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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HappyInHarsimus wrote:
Used the passageway to catch the 4 uptown on Saturday. Since this transit hub is now a touristy place, it was ridiculous navigating the crowds of shoppers, gawker etc. The worst was the people just sitting on the stairs, oblivious to the fact that it's a passageway to the subway.

I noticed a lot more people in the Oculus this weekend than I had a few weekends ago.

I didn't see anyone loitering on the stairs, though I did loiter in the Oculus space myself for a few minutes. Standing, of course. ;)

Posted on: 2016/8/22 20:45
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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HappyInHarsimus wrote:
Used the passageway to catch the 4 uptown on Saturday. Since this transit hub is now a touristy place, it was ridiculous navigating the crowds of shoppers, gawker etc. The worst was the people just sitting on the stairs, oblivious to the fact that it's a passageway to the subway.


I freaking hate that they spent $4 billion on this thing, but I do appreciate the air conditioned walk from the PATH train to the subway. As pretentious and impractical as the place is, it's still far easier to dodge the crowds in there than on the packed, narrow sidewalks outside - especially when the umbrellas come out on a rainy day.

Posted on: 2016/8/22 19:25
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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Used the passageway to catch the 4 uptown on Saturday. Since this transit hub is now a touristy place, it was ridiculous navigating the crowds of shoppers, gawker etc. The worst was the people just sitting on the stairs, oblivious to the fact that it's a passageway to the subway.

Posted on: 2016/8/22 17:25
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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hero69 wrote:
there was what some might call a mall before 9/11 at the wtc, but i would call it just a collection of stores. in any event, imo, the bathrooms before 9/11 were more PATH-centric and regualrly policed by PA cops, frequented by hobos and cleaned by PA hired staff. the new bathrooms are more mall-centric - no place for the homeless to wash up.


In the '80s through early '90s, I recall there was a pretty depressing collection of dumpy stores just one level below street level. By the late '90s, though, they had gone noticeably upscale with more suburban shopping mall-type stores. I remember there was a Crabtree & Evelyn, Borders, Nine West and maybe Banana Republic. The PATH restrooms were located on the level between the train platform and the shops, adjacent to the saddest looking bar in the world with the saddest looking patrons. I used the restrooms on numerous occasions pre-9/11 and they were pretty clean. The odd thing was I never once saw a homeless person in there. The bar - I think it was called Commuter Bar (or something with an equal lack of imagination) - never seemed to have more than two or three patrons in there. Those who needed a stiff drink to face that PATH ride home, I suppose.

Posted on: 2016/8/22 14:59
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:


[not doubting your claim, just really curious as to the answer]


Is this really such a stumper? Guy has girl friend who uses female bathroom. Guy asks girl friend how many stalls in the bathroom.


Apparently it was a stumper, because that guy didn't say anything intelligible in response to the question. You speculated something that is plausible, but was never articulated.


The previous poster's post is irrelevant. It shouldn't have been a stumper and I even gave a simple example to demonstrate.


Posted on: 2016/8/22 13:52
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:


[not doubting your claim, just really curious as to the answer]


Is this really such a stumper? Guy has girl friend who uses female bathroom. Guy asks girl friend how many stalls in the bathroom.


Apparently it was a stumper, because that guy didn't say anything intelligible in response to the question. You speculated something that is plausible, but was never articulated.

Posted on: 2016/8/22 1:45
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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hero69 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

jackp wrote:
Agreed on bathroom, just another example of how this facility was designed with no consideration for the needs of the commuter.

Errrrrwha?

How many commuter train stations have bathrooms in the first place?

The bathrooms are there because of the mall, not the commuters.
WRONG! there were bathrooms next to the PATH train entrance before 9/11.

Wasn't there a mall there, too...?

Resized Image


Quote:
it is not uncommon for there to be bathrooms at the terminus for rail lines....you will find that many end points for nyc subway have bathrooms....

No, what happened was that many stations (about 150 out of 450) had bathrooms. It wasn't based on whether or not they were a terminus, e.g. there's a bunch on the Brooklyn lines, nowhere near the terminus. About 2/3 of these, by the way, are now closed or repurposed.
there was what some might call a mall before 9/11 at the wtc, but i would call it just a collection of stores. in any event, imo, the bathrooms before 9/11 were more PATH-centric and regualrly policed by PA cops, frequented by hobos and cleaned by PA hired staff. the new bathrooms are more mall-centric - no place for the homeless to wash up.


lulwut?

"That's not a book! It's a collection of PAGES"

Posted on: 2016/8/22 0:14
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

jackp wrote:
Agreed on bathroom, just another example of how this facility was designed with no consideration for the needs of the commuter.

Errrrrwha?

How many commuter train stations have bathrooms in the first place?

The bathrooms are there because of the mall, not the commuters.
WRONG! there were bathrooms next to the PATH train entrance before 9/11.

Wasn't there a mall there, too...?

Resized Image


Quote:
it is not uncommon for there to be bathrooms at the terminus for rail lines....you will find that many end points for nyc subway have bathrooms....

No, what happened was that many stations (about 150 out of 450) had bathrooms. It wasn't based on whether or not they were a terminus, e.g. there's a bunch on the Brooklyn lines, nowhere near the terminus. About 2/3 of these, by the way, are now closed or repurposed.
there was what some might call a mall before 9/11 at the wtc, but i would call it just a collection of stores. in any event, imo, the bathrooms before 9/11 were more PATH-centric and regualrly policed by PA cops, frequented by hobos and cleaned by PA hired staff. the new bathrooms are more mall-centric - no place for the homeless to wash up.

Posted on: 2016/8/21 23:11
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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hero69 wrote:
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

jackp wrote:
Agreed on bathroom, just another example of how this facility was designed with no consideration for the needs of the commuter.

Errrrrwha?

How many commuter train stations have bathrooms in the first place?

The bathrooms are there because of the mall, not the commuters.
WRONG! there were bathrooms next to the PATH train entrance before 9/11.

Wasn't there a mall there, too...?

Resized Image


Quote:
it is not uncommon for there to be bathrooms at the terminus for rail lines....you will find that many end points for nyc subway have bathrooms....

No, what happened was that many stations (about 150 out of 450) had bathrooms. It wasn't based on whether or not they were a terminus, e.g. there's a bunch on the Brooklyn lines, nowhere near the terminus. About 2/3 of these, by the way, are now closed or repurposed.

Posted on: 2016/8/21 22:53
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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Dolomiti wrote:
Quote:

jackp wrote:
Agreed on bathroom, just another example of how this facility was designed with no consideration for the needs of the commuter.

Errrrrwha?

How many commuter train stations have bathrooms in the first place?

The bathrooms are there because of the mall, not the commuters.
WRONG! there were bathrooms next to the PATH train entrance before 9/11. it is not uncommon for there to be bathrooms at the terminus for rail lines....you will find that many end points for nyc subway have bathrooms, even though they might be filthy.

Posted on: 2016/8/21 22:16
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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jackp wrote:
Agreed on bathroom, just another example of how this facility was designed with no consideration for the needs of the commuter.

Errrrrwha?

How many commuter train stations have bathrooms in the first place?

The bathrooms are there because of the mall, not the commuters.

Posted on: 2016/8/21 21:53
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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bodhipooh wrote:


[not doubting your claim, just really curious as to the answer]


Is this really such a stumper? Guy has girl friend who uses female bathroom. Guy asks girl friend how many stalls in the bathroom.

Posted on: 2016/8/21 21:29
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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Agreed on bathroom, just another example of how this facility was designed with no consideration for the needs of the commuter.

Posted on: 2016/8/21 17:22
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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hero69 wrote:
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asny10011 wrote:
Where are the bathrooms?



quote]
corybraiterman wrote:
one really good thing about this, the nicest public bathroom i've ever been in. honestly, it looked like a bathroom one would find in a nice restaurant
near the 2nd level, around corner from apple store......
they really need to double, triple # of stalls for women. a 1:1 ratio does not make sense since women take so much longer than men


The cynic is me would say "gender equality?!"
The curious in me would like to ask "how do you know the ratio of men to women stalls?"
The ball buster in me would follow the above question with "is it that you self identify as trans and therefore free to use either bathroom?"

But, seriously, how do you know the stall ratio is 1:1 !?

[not doubting your claim, just really curious as to the answer][/quote]sure, i am a trans-gendered person. anyway, the bottom line is that women should not have to wait 15 minutes to use the loo, especially when men can walk in and out in 5 minutes if that long.

Posted on: 2016/8/21 1:06
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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hero69 wrote:
Quote:

asny10011 wrote:
Where are the bathrooms?



quote]
corybraiterman wrote:
one really good thing about this, the nicest public bathroom i've ever been in. honestly, it looked like a bathroom one would find in a nice restaurant
near the 2nd level, around corner from apple store......
they really need to double, triple # of stalls for women. a 1:1 ratio does not make sense since women take so much longer than men[/quote]

The cynic is me would say "gender equality?!"
The curious in me would like to ask "how do you know the ratio of men to women stalls?"
The ball buster in me would follow the above question with "is it that you self identify as trans and therefore free to use either bathroom?"

But, seriously, how do you know the stall ratio is 1:1 !?

[not doubting your claim, just really curious as to the answer]

Posted on: 2016/8/21 0:04
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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asny10011 wrote:
Where are the bathrooms?



quote]
corybraiterman wrote:
one really good thing about this, the nicest public bathroom i've ever been in. honestly, it looked like a bathroom one would find in a nice restaurant
[/quote]near the 2nd level, around corner from apple store......
they really need to double, triple # of stalls for women. a 1:1 ratio does not make sense since women take so much longer than men

Posted on: 2016/8/20 22:45
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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No, my name is Braiterman, not Dawson.

They're off to the side - when you edit the turnstiles, they're about halfway into the atrium off to the left, under a set of escalators/stairs.

Posted on: 2016/8/20 21:52
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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asny10011 wrote:
Where are the bathrooms?

quote]
corybraiterman wrote:
one really good thing about this, the nicest public bathroom i've ever been in. honestly, it looked like a bathroom one would find in a nice restaurant
[/quote]

Hey Cory Braiterman -- are you Cory Dawson? You sound like the photographer guy who keeps getting quoted in this article:

http://www.downtownexpress.com/2016/0 ... all-is-open-for-business/

https://twitter.com/corydawson

Posted on: 2016/8/20 19:28
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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Where are the bathrooms?



quote]
corybraiterman wrote:
one really good thing about this, the nicest public bathroom i've ever been in. honestly, it looked like a bathroom one would find in a nice restaurant[/quote]

Posted on: 2016/8/20 19:02
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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one really good thing about this, the nicest public bathroom i've ever been in. honestly, it looked like a bathroom one would find in a nice restaurant

Posted on: 2016/8/20 7:55
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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When are the other tracks going to open.... Shouldn't there be five tracks

Posted on: 2016/8/20 4:57
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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fuck everything about this station,especially the price tag

Posted on: 2016/8/20 2:34
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

jackp wrote:
Apologies in advance for ranting about this monumental waste. Heres specifically what troubles me about it besides the fact that the extra 2-3B spent here that could have improved our NJ stations (or extended PATH to EWR).

Here goes:
1. White marble? Already it is stained where seepage is coming up from the subbase and turning the edges yellow. Marble is soft, easily stained and is a terrible choice for a heavily trafficed area. Lets see how it does this winter with salt and water...
2. Sheet Rock walls in the train waiting area? Who could have possibly thought that would work? Did these people ever visit a real train station to see why they use concrete and tile?
3. Exit to Vesey St. Please correct me if this is temporary, but it makes no sense to take an escalator to one level, then walk up stairs, then take another escalator to the exit. Who planned that?
4. I have experienced a slight sense of vertigo walking up the rounded white stairs with no railings. Is it just me?
5. White ceilings above the trains with no way to clean. Look at the black ceilings in the rest of the stations. Who would think white ceilings in a train tunnel was a good idea?
6. useless retail stores that cater to the 1%.
7. What the place going to look like when half the cleaning crew gets cut back due to "funding shortfalls"?

Normally you would think a group of local engineers and maintenance people would have reviewed the design and made practical suggestions based on experience. perhaps they did and nobody listened.

In the end it looks like the needs of frequent commuters were not at all considered in this design. What a tragedy.

PS--Does anybody know if and when a "direct" tie between Chambers/E Train and WTC Path will happen?


You forgot the narrow platforms and escalators. What a waste.


And the fact that half the time, one of the staircases leaving the train platforms is closed for no apparent reason, forcing everyone to wait forever in order to reach the main level.

Posted on: 2016/8/20 1:35
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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jackp wrote:
Apologies in advance for ranting about this monumental waste. Heres specifically what troubles me about it besides the fact that the extra 2-3B spent here that could have improved our NJ stations (or extended PATH to EWR).

Here goes:
1. White marble? Already it is stained where seepage is coming up from the subbase and turning the edges yellow. Marble is soft, easily stained and is a terrible choice for a heavily trafficed area. Lets see how it does this winter with salt and water...
2. Sheet Rock walls in the train waiting area? Who could have possibly thought that would work? Did these people ever visit a real train station to see why they use concrete and tile?
3. Exit to Vesey St. Please correct me if this is temporary, but it makes no sense to take an escalator to one level, then walk up stairs, then take another escalator to the exit. Who planned that?
4. I have experienced a slight sense of vertigo walking up the rounded white stairs with no railings. Is it just me?
5. White ceilings above the trains with no way to clean. Look at the black ceilings in the rest of the stations. Who would think white ceilings in a train tunnel was a good idea?
6. useless retail stores that cater to the 1%.
7. What the place going to look like when half the cleaning crew gets cut back due to "funding shortfalls"?

Normally you would think a group of local engineers and maintenance people would have reviewed the design and made practical suggestions based on experience. perhaps they did and nobody listened.

In the end it looks like the needs of frequent commuters were not at all considered in this design. What a tragedy.

PS--Does anybody know if and when a "direct" tie between Chambers/E Train and WTC Path will happen?


You forgot the narrow platforms and escalators. What a waste.

Posted on: 2016/8/19 22:10
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
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Apologies in advance for ranting about this monumental waste. Heres specifically what troubles me about it besides the fact that the extra 2-3B spent here that could have improved our NJ stations (or extended PATH to EWR).

Here goes:
1. White marble? Already it is stained where seepage is coming up from the subbase and turning the edges yellow. Marble is soft, easily stained and is a terrible choice for a heavily trafficed area. Lets see how it does this winter with salt and water...
2. Sheet Rock walls in the train waiting area? Who could have possibly thought that would work? Did these people ever visit a real train station to see why they use concrete and tile?
3. Exit to Vesey St. Please correct me if this is temporary, but it makes no sense to take an escalator to one level, then walk up stairs, then take another escalator to the exit. Who planned that?
4. I have experienced a slight sense of vertigo walking up the rounded white stairs with no railings. Is it just me?
5. White ceilings above the trains with no way to clean. Look at the black ceilings in the rest of the stations. Who would think white ceilings in a train tunnel was a good idea?
6. useless retail stores that cater to the 1%.
7. What the place going to look like when half the cleaning crew gets cut back due to "funding shortfalls"?

Normally you would think a group of local engineers and maintenance people would have reviewed the design and made practical suggestions based on experience. perhaps they did and nobody listened.

In the end it looks like the needs of frequent commuters were not at all considered in this design. What a tragedy.

PS--Does anybody know if and when a "direct" tie between Chambers/E Train and WTC Path will happen?

Posted on: 2016/8/19 22:05
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
#42
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From Jersey City yo!
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Quote:

JCishome wrote:
Horrible. Garish. Tawdry.

I'm running short on adjectives to describe this monstrosity, but I'm most infuriated by the huge (120 foot?) advertising screen in the tunnel to Brookfield Place. The PA is clearly selling every inch of the place. What's next, the Yahoo 9/11 Museum, brought to you by Footlocker?


Apparently being in the presence of Calatrava's genius is lost on you... ;)

Posted on: 2016/8/17 13:42
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Re: Santiago Calatrava on his soon-to-be-opened WTC Transit Hub
#41
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Horrible. Garish. Tawdry.

I'm running short on adjectives to describe this monstrosity, but I'm most infuriated by the huge (120 foot?) advertising screen in the tunnel to Brookfield Place. The PA is clearly selling every inch of the place. What's next, the Yahoo 9/11 Museum, brought to you by Footlocker?

Posted on: 2016/8/17 13:19
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