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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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caj11 wrote:
Does anyone know the ordinance number, and where we can see the text of this ordinance? I looked at this past week's council agenda and all the ordinances and I cannot find it.


There are two ordinances related to this, the first one is the definition - 15.052 and the second one is the adoption - 15.053.

Posted on: 2015/5/17 10:37
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Does anyone know the ordinance number, and where we can see the text of this ordinance? I looked at this past week's council agenda and all the ordinances and I cannot find it.

Posted on: 2015/5/17 10:23
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caj11 wrote:
Back on topic here--

Say you have a building where two commercial tenants that are part of a chain get settled in, and the city discovers that they occupy more than 30% of the building's space (is the city going to conduct periodic audits for this?). Are they going to have the local police raid the business and force one of the tenants out? Impose fines on the landlord repeatedly, only to have the landlord challenge and refuse to pay the fines? Send the landlord to jail, only to have a prosecutor not bother with seeking an indictment?

Furthermore, what if, as it was previously suggested, it's just not possible to parcel out the space so that only 30% or less of it is rented to a particular tenant? Not all buildings are made of Legos, where you can just change the walls and floors at will to accommodate everybody.

I would just love to know how the city thinks they're going to enforce this stupid ordinance. Candace, if you're reading this, would you like to explain?


I laughed at your Lego comment. So, so true. I also agree that enforcement of this ordinance will be tough. I am assuming, as someone else suggested, that this could be enforced by refusing to issue a CO to a new tenant (if applicable) or by failing a Buildings Department inspection based on size and overall composition of the commercial space. This ordinance is completely misguided. We are not being overrun by "chain businesses" and what few such stores we have are obviously supported by the residents or visitors of JC. I really think developers and commercial tenants may have a legal argument that could be brought to a suit. Let's see what happens.

Posted on: 2015/5/17 10:07
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I really miss Il Chilango. Thanks alot jerk off.


Did they close?? I've been hunting for them, too. Or maybe they just found a new location??? :(

Posted on: 2015/5/17 7:55
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I really think this is just part and parcel of Fulup's obsession with making DTJC a destination. I think all this does is make JC a showcase for political advancement - Look what I did with what used to be a shithole (re-writing history is part of this strategy, too).

I think we have (or maybe had) the opportunity of turning DTJC into an urban oasis and maybe an urban lab, where residents can live, work and recreate w/o a car. We have the density and the wealth to encourage all sorts of necessary and interesting businesses to open. It seems that a week doesn't go by without an article about chain stores adopting to fit into urban settings. How horrible would a Baby Gaplet or a Banana State be on Newark Avenue? How pissed will you be when you find out that they couldn't find the space to open?

As far as Bloomberg goes- had he commandeered the Staten Island Ferries and invaded JC, I'd have welcomed him like an Austrian at the Anschluss.

Posted on: 2015/5/17 7:46
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Since Fulop took office, fees have increased everywhere, I guess he is planning another fee to enforce this. Fulop is copying Bloomberg. I am sure plastic bags will be discussed again. JC is becoming a nanny city.

Posted on: 2015/5/16 22:09
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good point, there are a whole bunch of ordinances that this administration has adopted that sound great, but may prove difficult or that the city is making no effort to enforce starting with the living wage ordinance in developments that receive city subsidies (ie. tax abatements), mandating paid sick time for employer of 10 or more employees, requiring re-pavement of a street curb-to-curb if it is dug up within 10 years after the city has resurfaced it, and now this supposedly limiting of chain or franchise stores to 30% of leasable space.


Quote:

caj11 wrote:
Back on topic here--

Say you have a building where two commercial tenants that are part of a chain get settled in, and the city discovers that they occupy more than 30% of the building's space (is the city going to conduct periodic audits for this?). Are they going to have the local police raid the business and force one of the tenants out? Impose fines on the landlord repeatedly, only to have the landlord challenge and refuse to pay the fines? Send the landlord to jail, only to have a prosecutor not bother with seeking an indictment?

Furthermore, what if, as it was previously suggested, it's just not possible to parcel out the space so that only 30% or less of it is rented to a particular tenant? Not all buildings are made of Legos, where you can just change the walls and floors at will to accommodate everybody.

I would just love to know how the city thinks they're going to enforce this stupid ordinance. Candace, if you're reading this, would you like to explain?

Posted on: 2015/5/16 21:16
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Back on topic here--

Say you have a building where two commercial tenants that are part of a chain get settled in, and the city discovers that they occupy more than 30% of the building's space (is the city going to conduct periodic audits for this?). Are they going to have the local police raid the business and force one of the tenants out? Impose fines on the landlord repeatedly, only to have the landlord challenge and refuse to pay the fines? Send the landlord to jail, only to have a prosecutor not bother with seeking an indictment?

Furthermore, what if, as it was previously suggested, it's just not possible to parcel out the space so that only 30% or less of it is rented to a particular tenant? Not all buildings are made of Legos, where you can just change the walls and floors at will to accommodate everybody.

I would just love to know how the city thinks they're going to enforce this stupid ordinance. Candace, if you're reading this, would you like to explain?

Posted on: 2015/5/16 19:04
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Dear DAllen,

You're completely wrong as to the chronology and the reason why prepared food took over the farmer's market. When Two Boots opened, it was truly a farmers market (much like those in NYC). The sale of prepared foods took off AFTER we opened and as a result of a budget shortfall at the HDSID. The HDSID didn't bring in food trucks and lobster roll purveyors because the community wanted it, they needed cash. It's that simple.

And, BTW, if you want pasta, we now have Pasta Dal Coure and Carrino Provisions - both of which are excellent. You should support them.

I'm sure if you were to ask most people "what the community wants" they'd tell you "strong local brick and mortar businesses who hire, invest and pay taxes in the community."

Posted on: 2015/5/16 17:17
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TonyTwoPoops wrote:
Oh my god you people need to get over it. You realize Madame Claude's doesn't care because it's now being regulated right? That was the whole point in moving it to the lot by their restaurant.

The Farmers Market is not the same thing as a group of unregulated food trucks so stop lumping it in with your whiny, tired arguement in an attempt to make it a valid complaint. No one is complaining about anyone trying to take away produce- they are complaining about floating traveling restaurants taking up shop in areas where brick and mortar stores are paying a whole lot of money to contribute to the neighborhood.

Speak for yourself on what the "community" wants. A lot of us want shops and restaurants that are here 24/7 to stay in a business. Those businesses are happy with the food trucks setting up on a Saturday in a lot because it means it's regulated- which is what everyone on that list was asking for! I'm sure you'll just continue repeating yourself and refusing to comprehend this logic because...empanadas!


Thank you!

Posted on: 2015/5/16 13:58
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Oh my god you people need to get over it. You realize Madame Claude's doesn't care because it's now being regulated right? That was the whole point in moving it to the lot by their restaurant.

The Farmers Market is not the same thing as a group of unregulated food trucks so stop lumping it in with your whiny, tired arguement in an attempt to make it a valid complaint. No one is complaining about anyone trying to take away produce- they are complaining about floating traveling restaurants taking up shop in areas where brick and mortar stores are paying a whole lot of money to contribute to the neighborhood.

Speak for yourself on what the "community" wants. A lot of us want shops and restaurants that are here 24/7 to stay in a business. Those businesses are happy with the food trucks setting up on a Saturday in a lot because it means it's regulated- which is what everyone on that list was asking for! I'm sure you'll just continue repeating yourself and refusing to comprehend this logic because...empanadas!

Posted on: 2015/5/16 13:52
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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DAllen wrote:
Aaron, I don't know what's so hard to understand
1) The farmers market in its previous form was in place before you and many of your cronies took occupancy in Jersey City. Its not like this is new. You came in and are trying to change the competitive landscape AFTER the fact.
2) The government subsidy is for the BENEFIT OF THE COMMUNITY. The community wants more options, you are denying this. Do you know what was so great about the farmers market? If I got home at a decent time, I could hit the farm stands and grab items to cook at home. If I got home late and was too tired to cook, there were MANY options where I could grab a quick meal to bring home that wasn't pizza.
3) You have the choice to compete. In this discussion, both Taqueria and Madame Claude's have offered and encouraged Food Trucks to set up right across the street from them. Mi Casa got their own food truck. Legal Beans used to set up at the market. You and your cronies went crying to the government.

If you could please post the most recent list of the businesses whose greed is fighting to limit the community's choices and options, it would be most appreciated so I and the others who feel strongly about this, can continue to ensure that our money does not go to any of you. Thanks.


+1

As as aside, I don't see how 20 restaurants could be on this list, considering the fact that there aren't 20 "serious" restaurants downtown. I mean, a list of holes in the wall MIGHT get 20 signatures, but there are MAYBE 15 on-point restaurants downtown and several of which have already voiced their support of the trucks.

Posted on: 2015/5/16 13:06
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Aaron, I don't know what's so hard to understand
1) The farmers market in its previous form was in place before you and many of your cronies took occupancy in Jersey City. Its not like this is new. You came in and are trying to change the competitive landscape AFTER the fact.
2) The government subsidy is for the BENEFIT OF THE COMMUNITY. The community wants more options, you are denying this. Do you know what was so great about the farmers market? If I got home at a decent time, I could hit the farm stands and grab items to cook at home. If I got home late and was too tired to cook, there were MANY options where I could grab a quick meal to bring home that wasn't pizza.
3) You have the choice to compete. In this discussion, both Taqueria and Madame Claude's have offered and encouraged Food Trucks to set up right across the street from them. Mi Casa got their own food truck. Legal Beans used to set up at the market. You and your cronies went crying to the government.

If you could please post the most recent list of the businesses whose greed is fighting to limit the community's choices and options, it would be most appreciated so I and the others who feel strongly about this, can continue to ensure that our money does not go to any of you. Thanks.

Posted on: 2015/5/16 12:47
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I expect they'd have to prove they aren't a chain when they get a certificate of occupancy.

I predict (or at least hope?) this ordinance will be reversed within 2 years. Developers of these big buildings coming in won't stand for it and they have the muscle to reverse this nonsense.

Posted on: 2015/5/16 11:55
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No one banned them! They are still around. However, they now seem to be following the law that was on the books way before the restaurants complained. See Section 175-10 of the Municipal Code if you don't believe me.

As I've repeated so many, many times, I, and all the other restaurants embrace FAIR competition. But no one should be getting government subsidies so that they can compete UNFAIRLY with other businesses who don't.


Posted on: 2015/5/16 9:38
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Dumbest thing ever. But what do expect from this wanna be governor we have for mayor?

Posted on: 2015/5/16 9:15
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TwoBootsJC wrote:
Hey "Who Else Could it Be" or whoever you are. You don't understand the point that I and 20 other restaurants, including chains, were making. For the umpteenth time, the food trucks and stands were getting a massive government rent subsidy which enabled them to unfairly compete (in the best location in JC no less, during our peak hours) with both mom and pops and chains.

How many times do I have to repeat this simple and completely reasonable point?


I'm glad you posted the list of the restaurants as I have not not given any of them a cent since then.

Posted on: 2015/5/16 6:04
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TwoBootsJC wrote:
Hey "Who Else Could it Be" or whoever you are. You don't understand the point that I and 20 other restaurants, including chains, were making. For the umpteenth time, the food trucks and stands were getting a massive government rent subsidy which enabled them to unfairly compete (in the best location in JC no less, during our peak hours) with both mom and pops and chains.

How many times do I have to repeat this simple and completely reasonable point?


No, I got ya.

My point was that even if you feel this way, it's no justification to use the government to ban them outright. Focus on your issue at hand - the licensing/fees that the food trucks would pay to serve at the Grove St. Plaza.

Banning them outright has nothing to do with the fees - the food trucks should be there regardless of what they have to pay in fees, because the community wants them. So yes, you are being very anti-competitive when you use the government to ban your competitors.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 23:43
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

caj11 wrote:
How is this going to be enforced? When a landlord is considering renting to a new tenant that is part of a chain, does he have to do this calculation:

square footage of his space plus square footage of other spaces in the neighborhood renting to chains divided by square footage of all rented commercial space in neighborhood, and then make sure it comes to less than 30%? How will that happen?

For that matter, I hope landlords openly defy this ordinance because it is just stupid, stupid, stupid.


It's actually worse: the 30% restriction is for each individual building/space. So, if 70 Columbus has 10,000 sf of retail space available, they can not rent more than 3,000sf to what is deemed a chain. To all commercial landlords: good luck trying to parcel out your available space in a way that meets this restriction without losing potential revenue.

Going back to my example: if 70 Columbus had two interested parties, each wanting 2000sf, they would have to turn one away because combined, they would go over the 30% limit. I really, really hope commercial landlord and buildings join forces and take the city to court over this overreach.


Oh, so its building by building, I see, and you are right, it is worse than I thought and really dumb. It still seems difficult to enforce. Once a building has a certificate of occupancy, what can the city really do, other than its fire and other safety inspections? Say that 70 Columbus does exactly what you said in the example, and the two commercial tenants settled in, and the city discovers what has happened - exactly how, I don't know unless it is so blatently obvious (is the city going to conduct periodic audits for this?). Are they going to have the local police raid the business and force one of the tenants out? Impose fines on the landlord repeatedly, only to have the landlord challenge and refuse to pay the fines? Send the landlord to jail, only to have a prosecutor not bother with seeking an indictment?

Furthermore, what if, as you suggested, it's just not possible to parcel out the space so that only 30% or less of it is rented to a particular tenant? Not all buildings are made of Legos, where you can just change the walls and floors at will to accommodate everybody.

I'm not sticking up for these landlords, hardly a fan of people like the LeFraks, Mack-Cali or Thor Equities, but this has to be the dumbest thing to come out of the Jersey City council under Fulop. It will either be a disaster for Jersey City, or not be enforced well, or every landlord will apply and get a variance, or they will just ignore it and suck up the fines.

I have three things to say about this ordinance - stupid, stupid, stupid.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 22:45
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Hey "Who Else Could it Be" or whoever you are. You don't understand the point that I and 20 other restaurants, including chains, were making. For the umpteenth time, the food trucks and stands were getting a massive government rent subsidy which enabled them to unfairly compete (in the best location in JC no less, during our peak hours) with both mom and pops and chains.

How many times do I have to repeat this simple and completely reasonable point?

Posted on: 2015/5/15 22:20
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Is it just me, or do others find this ordinance smacks of elitism?

Posted on: 2015/5/15 22:12
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caj11 wrote:
How is this going to be enforced? When a landlord is considering renting to a new tenant that is part of a chain, does he have to do this calculation:

square footage of his space plus square footage of other spaces in the neighborhood renting to chains divided by square footage of all rented commercial space in neighborhood, and then make sure it comes to less than 30%? How will that happen?

For that matter, I hope landlords openly defy this ordinance because it is just stupid, stupid, stupid.


It's actually worse: the 30% restriction is for each individual building/space. So, if 70 Columbus has 10,000 sf of retail space available, they can not rent more than 3,000sf to what is deemed a chain. To all commercial landlords: good luck trying to parcel out your available space in a way that meets this restriction without losing potential revenue.

Going back to my example: if 70 Columbus had two interested parties, each wanting 2000sf, they would have to turn one away because combined, they would go over the 30% limit. I really, really hope commercial landlord and buildings join forces and take the city to court over this overreach.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 21:42
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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How is this going to be enforced? When a landlord is considering renting to a new tenant that is part of a chain, does he have to do this calculation:

square footage of his space plus square footage of other spaces in the neighborhood renting to chains divided by square footage of all rented commercial space in neighborhood, and then make sure it comes to less than 30%? How will that happen?

For that matter, I hope landlords openly defy this ordinance because it is just stupid, stupid, stupid.

Posted on: 2015/5/15 20:36
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JJ comment:
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Attention….Attention…

Applebee’s or Houlihan's please set up shop in Journal Square.

I would even welcome one of those hipster favorites Chipotle Mexican Grill if Downtown doesn’t want it.

(you would be surprised at how many people up the Square (area) are dying for a good juicy burger or steak with brew (bud or miller only) in a familiar sit-down restaurant)


Posted on: 2015/5/15 19:01
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jerseymom wrote:
By Patrick McGovern | The Jersey Journal
on May 15, 2015 at 4:24 PM

JERSEY CITY -- The City Council has approved a controversial ordinance proposed by Mayor Steven Fulop's administration limiting chain stores in the Downtown section of the city.

The ordinance would limit chain stores to a maximum of 30 percent of ground-floor commercial space in Downtown buildings, although some portions of the Waterfront -- including Newport -- will be exempt.

The council voted 8-1 Wednesday to approve the measure that adopts "amendments to various redevelopment plans to add formula business restrictions" despite numerous pleas against the ordinance from audience members at the Wednesday night meeting. Ward C councilman Rich Boggiano cast the lone dissenting vote.

"This is a solution in search of a problem," said Aaron Morrill, co-founder of Civic JC and owner of a Two Boots franchise pizzeria in Jersey City. "The notion that chain stores are going to come in and run mom and pop stores out of business is wrong."

More - Jersey Journal


Hey Aaron, I fixed it for you:

"The notion that food trucks are going to come in and run brick and mortar restaurants out of business is wrong."


Posted on: 2015/5/15 18:48
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By Patrick McGovern | The Jersey Journal
on May 15, 2015 at 4:24 PM

JERSEY CITY -- The City Council has approved a controversial ordinance proposed by Mayor Steven Fulop's administration limiting chain stores in the Downtown section of the city.

The ordinance would limit chain stores to a maximum of 30 percent of ground-floor commercial space in Downtown buildings, although some portions of the Waterfront -- including Newport -- will be exempt.

The council voted 8-1 Wednesday to approve the measure that adopts "amendments to various redevelopment plans to add formula business restrictions" despite numerous pleas against the ordinance from audience members at the Wednesday night meeting. Ward C councilman Rich Boggiano cast the lone dissenting vote.

"This is a solution in search of a problem," said Aaron Morrill, co-founder of Civic JC and owner of a Two Boots franchise pizzeria in Jersey City. "The notion that chain stores are going to come in and run mom and pop stores out of business is wrong."

More - Jersey Journal

Posted on: 2015/5/15 18:24
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Where am I supposed to buy my chains now? It's crazy.

Posted on: 2015/5/14 16:43
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I think Michael Yun was joking.

Posted on: 2015/5/14 15:40
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You can't force "chains" or any other business person to open where they don't want to... nice try Yun

What's disheartening about this ordinance is the franchisee who decided to invest in a "chain" because of a proven track record, systems in place, support system etc. and now can't open here because he/she is considered a "chain" store.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It passed although many in the council including Osborne said they have misgivings about the ordinance. Only Boggiano voted against this. Yun said he wants the chain stores to come to the Heights.

Posted on: 2015/5/14 14:28
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Yvonne wrote:
It passed although many in the council including Osborne said they have misgivings about the ordinance. Only Boggiano voted against this. Yun said he wants the chain stores to come to the Heights.


LOL @ Yun.

Posted on: 2015/5/14 14:01
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