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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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...but thankfully a dense urban area can support far more businesses than a single Wal-Mart and McDonalds. One of the reasons why I choose to live in a city like Jersey City. I could never live in Podunk, USA, where a single big box and chain fast is the extent of retail options for the reasons Frank described.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 19:07
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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JCGuys wrote:
I don't care how cheap it is, I can't stand WalMart and it's long lines and shitty customer service. Give it a generation or two.

Restaraunts like McDonalds, Taco Bell, Applebee's and TGI Fridays should rein supreme if your theory is correct. But instead we avoid those places and seek out new restaraunts and cafes that open up. Same will happen eventually with the big box store format.


I applaud your optimism, but you may be failing to account for millions of consumers who don’t feel likewise, and vast regions of the country that aren’t remotely metropolitan. As far as big-box stores go, there’s no competing with them for mass produced consumer goods. They can offer the low prices they do because they deal in volume, and that volume allows them to survive on low profit margins. A small time retailer can’t do that kind of volume and would have to raise prices to uncompetitive levels. It’s unfortunate, but that’s how it is and will most likely continue to be.


I don't doubt in the many Podunk towns across America that a big box retailer could destroy all of the small business in the area. I don't think that's sustainable for the long term (50+ years). People will eventually get tired of the big box format and will eventually seek something else. Even if it's just the rich in those communities that can afford to forgo the economies of scale that only the big box retailers can provide. We'll just have to wait and see.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 13:39
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JCGuys wrote:
I don't care how cheap it is, I can't stand WalMart and it's long lines and shitty customer service. Give it a generation or two.

Restaraunts like McDonalds, Taco Bell, Applebee's and TGI Fridays should rein supreme if your theory is correct. But instead we avoid those places and seek out new restaraunts and cafes that open up. Same will happen eventually with the big box store format.


I applaud your optimism, but you may be failing to account for millions of consumers who don’t feel likewise, and vast regions of the country that aren’t remotely metropolitan. As far as big-box stores go, there’s no competing with them for mass produced consumer goods. They can offer the low prices they do because they deal in volume, and that volume allows them to survive on low profit margins. A small time retailer can’t do that kind of volume and would have to raise prices to uncompetitive levels. It’s unfortunate, but that’s how it is and will most likely continue to be.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 13:28
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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JCGuys wrote:
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Pebble wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
I don't care how cheap it is, I can't stand WalMart and it's long lines and shitty customer service. Give it a generation or two.

Restaraunts like McDonalds, Taco Bell, Applebee's and TGI Fridays should rein supreme if your theory is correct. But instead we avoid those places and seek out new restaraunts and cafes that open up. Same will happen eventually with the big box store format.


Except that Jersey City has two McDonalds downtown. There are multiple Dunkin Donuts downtown. TGI Friday's exists downtown. If you really think that these businesses aren't making money, you're only fooling yourself.

I don't know who you place in the "we" category when you say "we avoid those places" but they exist and are not going anywhere.


Sigh, you missed the point. We have more independent restaraunts and cafes than chains in the city. Would you eat at McDonalds?

I didn’t miss your point. Your point is based on a fantasy.

Like yourself, I prefer the small business to the big box store. I prefer the mom and pop taco joint to Taco Bell. However, I am fully cognizant of the fact that I am not everyone.

McDonalds rents a location directly across from the Grove Street PATH exit. If you think they aren’t paying out the nose in rent, you’re fooling yourself. The place is getting business, massive business, downtown.


Missed again... original NYTimes article discussed that Bodegas in upper Manhattan are being forced out by chain retailers.

My point is that quality and convenience can trump a chain and cite the number of successful Bodegas in the rest of Manhattan along with cafes and independent restaurants in Jersey City as an example. If chains were truly pushing out the independent shops, there would be a McDonalds, Taco Hell, and other corporate crap on every corner downtown.

You cite the one or two McDonalds restaurants downtown making bundles of money (which may not be true)

My rebuttal is the many other independent restaurants and cafes are not threatened by McDonalds and other chains. There seems to be a new family-owned restaurant or bar opening up every few weeks.

Look, I'm not arguing that nobody eats at McDonalds. Just saying the sheer number of independent restaurants that currently exists, along with the new ones opening up, would indicate that the reports of their death have been greatly exaggerated. I don't know how else to say it.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 12:56
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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i wish they would shut down every last one of those run down "local" stores that offers nothing but crap on newark ave and replace them all with chain stores.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 12:55
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I_heart_JC wrote:
this initiative is pretty moot, as every available inch of retail space downtown is becoming a new bar.

how about an ordinance limiting bars, mayor? have we reached saturation yet?



Most of the places opening up are restaurants, that happen to have bars. Saturation? We may have fewer bars out of any other US city of our size (260,000 or so).

Posted on: 2015/8/5 12:42
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Pebble wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
I don't care how cheap it is, I can't stand WalMart and it's long lines and shitty customer service. Give it a generation or two.

Restaraunts like McDonalds, Taco Bell, Applebee's and TGI Fridays should rein supreme if your theory is correct. But instead we avoid those places and seek out new restaraunts and cafes that open up. Same will happen eventually with the big box store format.


Except that Jersey City has two McDonalds downtown. There are multiple Dunkin Donuts downtown. TGI Friday's exists downtown. If you really think that these businesses aren't making money, you're only fooling yourself.

I don't know who you place in the "we" category when you say "we avoid those places" but they exist and are not going anywhere.


Sigh, you missed the point. We have more independent restaraunts and cafes than chains in the city. Would you eat at McDonalds?

I didn’t miss your point. Your point is based on a fantasy.

Like yourself, I prefer the small business to the big box store. I prefer the mom and pop taco joint to Taco Bell. However, I am fully cognizant of the fact that I am not everyone.

McDonalds rents a location directly across from the Grove Street PATH exit. If you think they aren’t paying out the nose in rent, you’re fooling yourself. The place is getting business, massive business, downtown.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 12:08
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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this initiative is pretty moot, as every available inch of retail space downtown is becoming a new bar.

how about an ordinance limiting bars, mayor? have we reached saturation yet?


Posted on: 2015/8/5 12:02
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BS I see plenty of dowtowners from my old hood at the Home Depot to the Walmart in Bayonne. Americans like big box stores which is causing problems for small biz. I was speaking of the metro area not dowtown lala land.


And you'll see me at Home Depot, too, because it has better prices for the same products as the downtown hardware store, but if I, say, just need a key cut, then I'll go with convenience over price.

My point is not that people hate big box stores, nor is it that people only go to big box stores to the exclusion of small businesses. My point is that both types of business can have advantages and disadvantages, and if your small business is dying, it's probably because it isn't leveraging its advantages.

I don't want to buy meat at ShopRite. I want to buy meat from a decent butcher who knows how to choose high-quality primals, age them appropriately, and sell me a superior product. At the exact same time, if I need to buy sugar, there's nothing differentiating ShopRite from the bodega other than price.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 11:14
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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JCGuys wrote:
I don't care how cheap it is, I can't stand WalMart and it's long lines and shitty customer service. Give it a generation or two.

Restaraunts like McDonalds, Taco Bell, Applebee's and TGI Fridays should rein supreme if your theory is correct. But instead we avoid those places and seek out new restaraunts and cafes that open up. Same will happen eventually with the big box store format.


Except that Jersey City has two McDonalds downtown. There are multiple Dunkin Donuts downtown. TGI Friday's exists downtown. If you really think that these businesses aren't making money, you're only fooling yourself.

I don't know who you place in the "we" category when you say "we avoid those places" but they exist and are not going anywhere.


Sigh, you missed the point. We have more independent restaraunts and cafes than chains in the city. Would you eat at McDonalds?

Posted on: 2015/8/5 10:53
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Tell that shit to Bayonne, since Walmart opened Broadway is starting to look a lot like Ocean and MLK with nothing but empty store fronts.


Ehh, we're really talking about totally different demographics here. The current DTJC demo is clearly more than willing to pay a premium for higher quality and better personal service. Other demographics would prefer convenience and low price.

Fact is that these bodegas mostly provide low-quality goods at high prices, making them ripe to be destroyed by a more efficient market player. I don't see Ottomanelli & Sons' prime meat business being threatened by Walmart, though.


BS I see plenty of dowtowners from my old hood at the Home Depot to the Walmart in Bayonne. Americans like big box stores which is causing problems for small biz. I was speaking of the metro area not dowtown lala land.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 10:53
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Tell that shit to Bayonne, since Walmart opened Broadway is starting to look a lot like Ocean and MLK with nothing but empty store fronts.


Ehh, we're really talking about totally different demographics here. The current DTJC demo is clearly more than willing to pay a premium for higher quality and better personal service. Other demographics would prefer convenience and low price.

Fact is that these bodegas mostly provide low-quality goods at high prices, making them ripe to be destroyed by a more efficient market player. I don't see Ottomanelli & Sons' prime meat business being threatened by Walmart, though.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 10:49
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JCGuys wrote:
I don't care how cheap it is, I can't stand WalMart and it's long lines and shitty customer service. Give it a generation or two.

Restaraunts like McDonalds, Taco Bell, Applebee's and TGI Fridays should rein supreme if your theory is correct. But instead we avoid those places and seek out new restaraunts and cafes that open up. Same will happen eventually with the big box store format.


Except that Jersey City has two McDonalds downtown. There are multiple Dunkin Donuts downtown. TGI Friday's exists downtown. If you really think that these businesses aren't making money, you're only fooling yourself.

I don't know who you place in the "we" category when you say "we avoid those places" but they exist and are not going anywhere.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 10:34
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I don't care how cheap it is, I can't stand WalMart and it's long lines and shitty customer service. Give it a generation or two.

Restaraunts like McDonalds, Taco Bell, Applebee's and TGI Fridays should rein supreme if your theory is correct. But instead we avoid those places and seek out new restaraunts and cafes that open up. Same will happen eventually with the big box store format.


Posted on: 2015/8/5 10:25
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ark my words, a well run independent butcher that knows your name and cuts of meat, located in the right area of town, will attract business from the mass produced crap from soulless large corporations


Tell that shit to Bayonne, since Walmart opened Broadway is starting to look a lot like Ocean and MLK with nothing but empty store fronts.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 10:08
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Well run butchers, bakers, fishmongers, delicatessens and specialty shops are making a comeback. There is a growing subset of the population that avoid chains at all costs. If there was a bakery with 5 stars on Yelp next door to a CVS, will anyone actually choose the CVS for their bread?


Quality is certainly playing a larger role in the American consciousness, particularly in affluent urban centers, but do you really believe that the trend of large corporations outcompeting independent butchers, bakers and candlestick-makers, and their conspicuous domination of the overall market will reverse course?


Trends can reverse. In the 60s, 70s and 80s, there was a mass exodus to the suburbs. Cities were dying. Somewhere along the lines things turned around. NJ is home to many vacant and decaying office parks as at one time it was all the rage. Office employment eventually returned to the city. For a corporate example, look at McDonalds now, they're in serious trouble (their stock price is falling, earnings are collpasing with each passing quarter, and franchisees are terrified) as no one wants to eat their shit and they're struggling very hard to bring people back.

Mark my words, a well run independent butcher that knows your name and cuts of meat, located in the right area of town, will attract business from the mass produced crap from soulless large corporations were the workers make minimum wage and don't give a damn or know a thing about beef.

I truly believe we humans aren't wired that way and independent shops that offer higher quality than what the large corporations are offering will succeed. It may also be a generational thing.


Posted on: 2015/8/5 9:09
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JCGuys wrote:
Well run butchers, bakers, fishmongers, delicatessens and specialty shops are making a comeback. There is a growing subset of the population that avoid chains at all costs. If there was a bakery with 5 stars on Yelp next door to a CVS, will anyone actually choose the CVS for their bread?


Quality is certainly playing a larger role in the American consciousness, particularly in affluent urban centers, but do you really believe that the trend of large corporations outcompeting independent butchers, bakers and candlestick-makers, and their conspicuous domination of the overall market will reverse course?

Posted on: 2015/8/5 8:43
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Alarmist bs.

Some of those bodegas that have closed were poorly managed, sold expired food and smelled really, really bad! Like the cab industry before Uber, they didn't have to worry about competition and quality suffered as a result. Well run butchers, bakers, fishmongers, delicatessens and specialty shops are making a comeback. There is a growing subset of the population that avoid chains at all costs. If there was a bakery with 5 stars on Yelp next door to a CVS, will anyone actually choose the CVS for their bread?

To the remaining bodegas, step up your game and adapt to the changing market place or become extinct. The ones south of say 92nd are doing very well.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 11:01
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JCMan8 wrote:
Good riddance to bodegas.


Have fun shopping at Walmart, so much of the old NYC is gone... butchers, bakers, fishmongers, delicatessens and specialty shops which represented the ethnic mosaic of the community, and with them most of the bodegas. In their place are Dunkin' Donuts, Starbucks, Duane-Reade, CVS - literally next door to each other - nail salons and banks.

The flavor of the City is being diluted..

Posted on: 2015/8/4 10:45
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Good riddance to bodegas.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 10:38
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Bodegas Declining in Manhattan as Rents Rise and Chains Grow

By TATIANA SCHLOSSBERG AUG. 3, 2015

José Alvarrado saved for more than a decade to buy 3 Brothers Mini Market, a bodega at 169th Street and Audubon Avenue.

But at his store on a recent weekday morning, only eight months after he opened shop in Washington Heights, shelves that had held bags of rice and beans were empty. Gallons of milk lay sideways in a refrigerated case, offered at half-price or less.
Resized Image

Mr. Alvarrado is closing his store, saying that even with a five-year lease, rising rent and other conditions make it impossible to stay.

His situation is similar to one faced by many bodega owners throughout Upper Manhattan: Despite their profitability, stores are being squeezed out of the neighborhoods they call home. Once lonely grocery outposts in a dangerous city, their colorful awnings part of the streetscape, they are now losing customers to chain stores.

Bodegas — there are around 12,000 in New York City — cannot be strictly defined. You know one when you see it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/04/nyr ... region&nlid=63156580&_r=0

Posted on: 2015/8/4 9:47
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Funny how Fulop is all about keeping chains out, while "trendy" Queens neighborhoods like Forest Hills are fighting to keep a Barnes & Noble open.

http://gothamist.com/2015/05/28/barne ... e_last_store_standing.php


Forest Hills is a lot of things but "trendy" ain't one of them. Perfectly lovely neighborhood in many ways but I hardly think it represents the progressive beacon that Fulop is looking towards on this measure.


That's right. More suitable progressive beacons for comparison purposes would be Detroit or Baltimore.

Posted on: 2015/5/29 14:53
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Funny how Fulop is all about keeping chains out, while "trendy" Queens neighborhoods like Forest Hills are fighting to keep a Barnes & Noble open.

http://gothamist.com/2015/05/28/barne ... e_last_store_standing.php


Forest Hills is a lot of things but "trendy" ain't one of them. Perfectly lovely neighborhood in many ways but I hardly think it represents the progressive beacon that Fulop is looking towards on this measure.

Posted on: 2015/5/29 14:47
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Posted on: 2015/5/29 14:35
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slim26 wrote:
Is this the official end of the soon to be Whole Foods in downtown?


It's based on market area, as the population and household income of Jersey City grows, it's years,only a matter of time for all those upscale retailers to get in on the action.

Whole Foods, Trader Joes, Starbucks at Journal Square, Apple Store, and a couple Applebees in Jersey City all within 15 years guaranteed. If downtown doesn't permit chain stores, they'll just open up in Newport of even Journal Square if the area rapidly gentrifies.

Posted on: 2015/5/29 10:50
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Is this the official end of the soon to be Whole Foods in downtown?


From the latest NJ.com article:

"The ordinance defines chain stores as those having "multiple locations within the region that exhibit standardized characteristics such as logos, menus, store decor" and more.

Grocery stores will not be affected by the ordinance."

Posted on: 2015/5/29 10:49
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This seems like a solution in search of a problem. It's been my experience that millennials shun chain stores anyway. And to the person talking about going to TGI Friday's for a steak?! Barf!! There are soooo many better chain/non-chain restaurants to get a good steak. Have a higher standard, man!

Posted on: 2015/5/29 10:47
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Is this the official end of the soon to be Whole Foods in downtown?

Posted on: 2015/5/29 10:32
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Funny how Fulop is all about keeping chains out, while "trendy" Queens neighborhoods like Forest Hills are fighting to keep a Barnes & Noble open.

http://gothamist.com/2015/05/28/barne ... e_last_store_standing.php

Posted on: 2015/5/28 22:16
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caj11 wrote:
Does anyone know the ordinance number, and where we can see the text of this ordinance? I looked at this past week's council agenda and all the ordinances and I cannot find it.


There are two ordinances related to this, the first one is the definition - 15.052 and the second one is the adoption - 15.053.
this is bogus and why fulop won't move beyond jersey city, hudson county. if coach or intermix wanted top open a store in dtjc, our esteemed mayor would be in favor of blocking that...quality over quantity

Posted on: 2015/5/17 16:49
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