Register now !    Login  
Main Menu
Who's Online
36 user(s) are online (16 user(s) are browsing Message Forum)

Members: 0
Guests: 36

more...




Browsing this Thread:   1 Anonymous Users




(1) 2 3 4 ... 11 »


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/2/20 18:20
Last Login :
7/18 3:34
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2561
Offline

Fulop Notches a win in Court, as Judge Rules Ballot Question to Proceed

OBSERVER - POLITICKERNJ  -  By

The Superior Court of New Jersey this evening threw out a plaintiff’s challenge to a city council-approved ballot question in Jersey City that offers voters a chance to move municipal elections from May to November.

“Because Defendants have the authority to change Jersey City’s municipal charter using a referendum, the lack of ambiguity of the Referendum, and Plaintiffs’ failure to satisfy the Crowe factors, Plaintiffs’ Order is DENIED in its totality and the complaint is dismissed with prejudice,” the court ruled.

Read more:  http://observer.com/2016/09/fulop-not ... llot-question-to-proceed/


Posted on: 2016/9/14 17:16
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2007/7/4 16:37
Last Login :
Yesterday 22:57
From Hamilton Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 532
Offline
Let the voter speak. I wonder if instant runoff are authorized in this state and if yes how they could be put on the ballot.

Posted on: 2016/9/13 23:55
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2009/10/7 15:46
Last Login :
Today 0:35
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2952
Offline
Judge rejects effort to kill Jersey City referendum on election timing

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal

on September 13, 2016 at 5:31 PM, updated September 13, 2016 at 5:53 PM

JERSEY CITY — A Hudson County Superior Court judge today threw out former Corporation Counsel Bill Matsikoudis' legal challenge to the city referendum set for November's ballot seeking to move local elections from May to November.

Judge Peter Bariso, in a ruling issued this afternoon, dismissed Matsikoudis' argument that the city had improperly pieced together two different state laws when it crafted the referendum. Bariso also shot down Matsikoudis' argument that the wording of the ballot question is vague.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... l.html#incart_2box_hudson

Posted on: 2016/9/13 23:46
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/2/20 18:20
Last Login :
7/18 3:34
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2561
Offline

Group sues to halt ballot question on Jersey City election timing

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on September 01, 2016 at 5:40 PM, updated September 01, 2016 at 6:01 PM

JERSEY CITY — A group led by former Corporation Counsel Bill Matsikoudis is taking another shot at killing a Mayor Steve Fulop-backed referendum that will ask voters whether city elections should move from May to November.

In a lawsuit filed today in Hudson County Superior Court, Matsikdous' Jersey City Civic Committee and five Fulop critics are asking a judge to throw the referendum off this November's ballot or reword the question, which the plaintiffs call "confusing." Fulop, the City Council and Hudson County Clerk Barbara Netchert are named as defendants.

Read More  http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... stion_on_jersey_city.html


Posted on: 2016/9/1 23:44
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/2/20 18:20
Last Login :
7/18 3:34
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2561
Offline

Déjà vu all over again
Jersey City Council adopts ordinance to let residents vote on moving elections

by Al Sullivan
Reporter staff writer
Jan 24, 2016

A divided Jersey City Council adopted an ordinance at its Jan. 13 meeting that would put a binding referendum on the November ballot to decide if municipal elections should be moved from May to November in time for the 2017 mayor and gubernatorial elections.

The vote will be a repeat of a non-binding referendum that voters narrowly approved last fall. Bending to criticism that the 52 to 48 percent passage of the non-binding referendum did not signify a mandate for change, the council chose to advance a binding referendum instead.

While the measure would not do away with runoff elections, Mayor Steven Fulop said last month he intends to propose a second ballot question that would.

The referendum will occur during a high turnout presidential election. If voters approve it, the municipal elections will move from May to November 2017.

This will have the effect of allowing Fulop to try to get the Democratic primary nomination for governor in June, and if he fails, to still run for mayor.

Opponents of the referendum argue that the ballot would be too confusing if candidates for mayor and council are added to the already substantial list of candidates in November elections.
_____________
“The more people who turn out the better.” – Frank Gajewski
____________
A number of municipalities have made the change from May to November as first proposed by Gov. Christopher Christie in 2010.

Posted on: 2016/1/24 22:07
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/2/20 18:20
Last Login :
7/18 3:34
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2561
Offline

Jersey City referendum may have impact on race for governor | Political Insider

By Agustin C. Torres | The Jersey Journal
January 14, 2016 at 7:13 AM

By approving a November referendum that seeks to move the May Jersey City election to the fall of 2017, the City Council has likely unleashed a political battle with implications in the gubernatorial race.

This is the obligatory couple of paragraphs: Critics of Mayor Fulop say by moving the local election date, the binding referendum is not a matter of saving money or a device for getting more people to vote in local races but rather it serves as a safety net for the mayor.

To repeat again, if the referendum is approved then Fulop could run for re-election should he lose the Democratic Party nomination for governor in the June primary. Anti-administration folks want the status quo because they believe it will force him to make a decision on which office he will seek hoping he runs for the state position, leaving Jersey City behind.

Read more:  http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... e_impact_on_race_for.html


Posted on: 2016/1/15 7:02
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/2/20 18:20
Last Login :
7/18 3:34
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2561
Offline

Plan to move Jersey City elections to November clears hurdle

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
January 13, 2016 at 9:15 PM

JERSEY CITY — Jersey City elections will move from May to November pending voter approval this November, thanks to a vote by the City Council tonight.

The council voted 7-2 — with council members Rich Boggiano and Michael Yun voting no — on a measure that will lead to a binding resolution on the November 2016 ballot seeking voter approval for moving city races to the fall starting in 2017.

The plan is derided by critics of Mayor Steve Fulop as his "back-up plan" because it would allow him to run for re-election in November 2017 if he loses the June 2017 gubernatorial primary, in which he is expected to be a contender.

Read more:  http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... o_move_city_election.html


Posted on: 2016/1/14 5:35
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2007/12/30 16:56
Last Login :
Yesterday 0:15
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 569
Offline
That has nothing to do with the date of the election.

Posted on: 2016/1/7 20:59
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/6/17 2:16
Last Login :
Yesterday 23:16
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 4811
Offline
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
If you read the letter, she complains about the small type. Of course there is small type. There is more information in the November election. This is the important part of the letter, “I did get a call from the county explaining that the wording is smaller because more information is now on the ballot and so much more is there because the elections have been moved forward.” It is amazing how you, Brewster, missed this most important statement.


I did not miss it, but I find it least important. It's like blaming traffic jams on the idea of the workday. If there is really a problem, the ways of solving it involving graphics are far more logical than moving elections.


You find the print size least important! The elections are for the people, we pay for them. It should benefit the masses and print size is extremely important. If the public cannot read things, then why bother voting?

Posted on: 2016/1/7 20:56
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/11/6 21:13
Last Login :
Yesterday 20:22
From Hamilton Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 5540
Offline
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
If you read the letter, she complains about the small type. Of course there is small type. There is more information in the November election. This is the important part of the letter, “I did get a call from the county explaining that the wording is smaller because more information is now on the ballot and so much more is there because the elections have been moved forward.” It is amazing how you, Brewster, missed this most important statement.


I did not miss it, but I find it least important. It's like blaming traffic jams on the idea of the workday. If there is really a problem, the ways of solving it involving graphics are far more logical than moving elections.

Posted on: 2016/1/7 19:53
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/6/17 2:16
Last Login :
Yesterday 23:16
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 4811
Offline
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Woman in Hoboken complains about the ballot. Hoboken changed the ballot to November.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... _more_legible_letter.html


Your talent for dragging in unrelated anecdotes as proof of your positions is limitless. The letter writer's complaint is about overlong plebiscite descriptions, not the date of the election. The writer could not be bothered to read the ballot she received in the mail and struggled to read the small type on the ballot. This could easily be solved by having large type copies of the text available at the polls, even pinned inside the booth.

Next crazy reason to oppose this?


If you read the letter, she complains about the small type. Of course there is small type. There is more information in the November election. This is the important part of the letter, “I did get a call from the county explaining that the wording is smaller because more information is now on the ballot and so much more is there because the elections have been moved forward.” It is amazing how you, Brewster, missed this most important statement.

Posted on: 2016/1/7 18:56
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/11/6 21:13
Last Login :
Yesterday 20:22
From Hamilton Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 5540
Offline
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Woman in Hoboken complains about the ballot. Hoboken changed the ballot to November.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... _more_legible_letter.html


Your talent for dragging in unrelated anecdotes as proof of your positions is limitless. The letter writer's complaint is about overlong plebiscite descriptions, not the date of the election. The writer could not be bothered to read the ballot she received in the mail and struggled to read the small type on the ballot. This could easily be solved by having large type copies of the text available at the polls, even pinned inside the booth.

Next crazy reason to oppose this?

Posted on: 2016/1/7 18:40
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/6/17 2:16
Last Login :
Yesterday 23:16
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 4811
Offline
Woman in Hoboken complains about the ballot. Hoboken changed the ballot to November.

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... _more_legible_letter.html

Posted on: 2016/1/7 17:15
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/2/20 18:20
Last Login :
7/18 3:34
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2561
Offline

Déjà vu: Jersey City to vote again on election move

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
December 10, 2015 at 3:17 PM

JERSEY CITY — In the latest twist in the never-ending saga that is Mayor Steve Fulop's attempt to move city elections from May to November, Fulop is withdrawing his support of a measure that would have led to the City Council formalizing the change as early as next week.

Fulop is instead now backing a measure that would ask voters to decide in a binding referendum whether to hold municipal elections in the fall. The change, which Fulop says would increase voter turnout and cut city costs, would take effect for the 2017 mayoral and council races.

Read more:  http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ush_to_move_jersey_c.html


Posted on: 2015/12/11 8:54
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2005/6/8 3:24
Last Login :
Yesterday 13:40
From New Urbanist Area
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 1362
Offline
Same publisher, different editorial boards, at least w/respect to Star-Ledger and Jersey Journal.

Posted on: 2015/11/30 15:22
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/2/20 18:20
Last Login :
7/18 3:34
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2561
Offline

The Jersey City election flap reeks of politics | Editorial

By Star-Ledger Editorial Board
November 29, 2015 at 9:47 PM

Government in Jersey City has always had a high yuck factor, but now there's a movement afoot to repudiate the will of the voters while also warping the career arc of its mayor.

This is something that needs to be pointed out, because when a small minority tries to wrest control of the election process in our second largest city, it reeks of political subterfuge.

On Nov, 3, the voters, employing something called democracy, decided through a non-binding referendum that it's time to end the preposterous tradition of holding municipal elections in May and move them to November like many cities do. All it would have taken to put that decision into practice was ratification from the City Council.

The Council generally favors the idea, reports say, because it makes sense on every level. Moving the date to November not only save the city as much as $633,000, it also improves the anemic turnout.

But the Council balked, ostensibly to give the matter more study. The real reason was the blowback it received from a committee that initiated a petition drive to stop the move. The Jersey Journal identifies that committee as a group consisting of Fulop rivals, led by Bill Matsikoudis, who lost his job as the city's corporate counsel after Fulop unseated Jerry Healy in the 2013 election.

Their chief aim appears to have less to do with civic concerns than upending Fulop himself, however.

Read more:  http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... reeks_of_politics_ed.html


Posted on: 2015/11/30 4:07
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/2/6 23:13
Last Login :
7/9 15:56
From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 1202
Offline
the actual editorial by the star ledger was pretty poor, it did not state who the good government groups that support this specific initiative were, nor did it quote the opposition's strongest arguments against it.

and an editorial by the star ledger, jersey journal and nj.com is kind of like one, not three, no?

the issue is not straight forward.

Quote:

m1abrams wrote:
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ponents_to_moving_je.html

This is the 3rd independent editorial supporting moving the election and say that allies of the former administration want to regain power. The political machine is stronger in May and that is why they don't want higher turnout in November. Allies of the previous administration, including several posters on this forum have been exposed. Perhaps there is a conspiracy that the JJ and the SL are in Fulop's pocket? The fact is, they say that good government groups support this measure. The only reason why there is opposition including large opposition from people here is because they want to take down the current administration and bring back the old ways of doing things which really brought Jersey City down.

Posted on: 2015/11/30 3:48
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Newbie
Newbie


Hide User information
Joined :
2015/11/29 20:35
Last Login :
2015/12/8 19:09
From Jersey City
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 1
Offline
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... ponents_to_moving_je.html

This is the 3rd independent editorial supporting moving the election and say that allies of the former administration want to regain power. The political machine is stronger in May and that is why they don't want higher turnout in November. Allies of the previous administration, including several posters on this forum have been exposed. Perhaps there is a conspiracy that the JJ and the SL are in Fulop's pocket? The fact is, they say that good government groups support this measure. The only reason why there is opposition including large opposition from people here is because they want to take down the current administration and bring back the old ways of doing things which really brought Jersey City down.

Posted on: 2015/11/29 20:43
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/6/17 2:16
Last Login :
Yesterday 23:16
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 4811
Offline
"86% of the winners in runoffs won the plurality in the first election to begin with." So why deny the 14% that will win?



Posted on: 2015/11/26 18:21
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/8/6 22:56
Last Login :
7/4 21:40
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 1021
Offline
Quote:

shakatah wrote:
You haven't been reading Dolomiti. I have absolutely no problem if only 10 people turn out to an election that every eligible citizen can participate in and 6 JC residents determine who the next mayor is because that is a majority of the voters in that election and everyone had the opportunity to participate. However, if only 2 of the 10 people voted for a candidate and he wins anyway. BIG PROBLEM!!! understand?

*sigh*

Yes, I understand, because you keep beating the same horse, over and over and over.

There is no failure of comprehension. What's happening is that you are failing to convince me, and I am pointing out how we are not slaves to majority votes. There are roles in our system for pluralities, supermajorities, and wholly undemocratic processes.

And again, your point about the allegedly critical need for runoffs is undermined by a) the low turnout for runoffs and that b) 86% of the winners in runoffs won the plurality in the first election to begin with.


Quote:
My issue is that voters should do everything in their power to force elected officials to engage them, even if they are only doing it to get votes. As a politician, what would you do if all of a sudden you did not need 50%+1 of votes anymore but instead could win with 19% or even less of the votes?

"Majority vs Plurality" has nothing to do with forcing elected officials to engage all the voters. Nor should a candidate be compelled by a voting structure to do so.

Meanwhile: No one is going to become mayor by targeting 20% of JC residents (e.g. exclusively appealing to Hispanic men). What seems to happen is that main candidates put shadow candidates on the bill, to draw votes and force a runoff. This favors the candidates with more money, rather than those who "engage the voters."


Quote:
Think carefully about what you wish for because once JC gets it the city is stuck with that decision for a very long time if not forever.

No, it isn't.

The process for reinstating runoffs is exactly the same as for removing them.

Please, spare us further repetition and hysterics. Neither are necessary.

PS Happy Thanksgiving

Posted on: 2015/11/26 14:14
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2006/1/18 14:10
Last Login :
2016/6/11 16:43
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 230
Offline
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

shakatah wrote:
And there is no way that you get to 50%+1 of the electoral votes after getting only 19% of the popular vote without the country imploding in chaos because that would be a stolen election.


So your argument boils down to "it could happen but I don't like it". Neither did the South btw, when Lincoln won with 39.65%. But we're talking about what is possible, not what you like.

But speaking of stolen elections and things we would not like, do you realize what happens if a presidential election ends up with no one getting 50% of the EC? It goes to the House, where every STATE gets 1 vote. That's right, Wyoming with 600k people gets the same vote as California with 39M. How's THAT for democracy! The GOP would adore it, they've got way more sparsely populated states.

Life is like dinner at a highway rest stop: sometimes all you have is the lesser of 2 evils.


I don't know if the process you outline if no one gets more than 50% in a presidential Brewster, but let's assume that you are right and no pres candidate gets more than 50%, the house votes with each state getting one vote regardless of population, which btw is not a foreign concept in our democracy because each state has 2 senators regardless of population and I don't hear anyone suggesting we should burn the senate down. How many votes do you think the candidate would need to win? I don't have to do the research to tell you it's 50%+1 (majority) of the number of states.

So you see Brewster, it is impossible to move in any direction in this debate without bumping into 50%+1 because it is at the core of the US democracy. Moving to any standard lower than 50%+1 goes against a core principle of our democracy.

Posted on: 2015/11/26 13:36
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2013/3/29 21:43
Last Login :
4/5 18:29
From Bergen Hill
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 1906
Offline
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
One of the speakers made a powerful argument against changing the election to November. He spoke before the council and said, "Everyone of you who are now elected as council would not be there if the election was November 2013. The HCDO would have supported Healy who is part of the HDCO and his slate." That statement made sense, the HDCO do not bother with May elections but if they are pushing their own candidates in November then it takes very little to add a HDCO mayor/council to the ticket.

You assume too much.

Healy was a corrupt individual that was on his way out. Had more people voted in the election, he would have been trounced by an even larger margin.

Posted on: 2015/11/25 19:25
Dos A Cero
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/6/17 2:16
Last Login :
Yesterday 23:16
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 4811
Offline
One of the speakers made a powerful argument against changing the election to November. He spoke before the council and said, "Everyone of you who are now elected as council would not be there if the election was November 2013. The HCDO would have supported Healy who is part of the HDCO and his slate." That statement made sense, the HDCO do not bother with May elections but if they are pushing their own candidates in November then it takes very little to add a HDCO mayor/council to the ticket.

Posted on: 2015/11/25 19:18
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/2/20 18:20
Last Login :
7/18 3:34
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 2561
Offline

Jersey City council postpones vote on moving city elections

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on November 24, 2015 at 7:04 PM

JERSEY CITY — A City Council vote to move city elections from May to November was postponed tonight, after a spirited defense of the proposed change by Council President Rolando Lavarro.

Lavarro dismissed complaints that low voter turnout in the most recent general election, when voters narrowly approved a referendum signaling support for moving election day, should make the council think twice about making the change.

Lavarro also noted that he and most of council colleagues ran in 2013 on a platform that including changing Jersey City's election day.

Read more:  http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... city_elections_is_po.html


Posted on: 2015/11/25 0:17
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2006/1/18 14:10
Last Login :
2016/6/11 16:43
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 230
Offline
Quote:

Dolomiti wrote:
[quote]


Fortunately, if the citizens of Jersey City want to keep runoffs, all they have to do is vote for it. Of course, if that happens to be an election with a low turnout, and more than 50% vote to eliminate runoffs, it seems like you should be willing to accept the decision of the majority. No...?


You haven't been reading Dolomiti. I have absolutely no problem if only 10 people turn out to an election that every eligible citizen can participate in and 6 JC residents determine who the next mayor is because that is a majority of the voters in that election and everyone had the opportunity to participate. However, if only 2 of the 10 people voted for a candidate and he wins anyway. BIG PROBLEM!!! understand?

My issue is that voters should do everything in their power to force elected officials to engage them, even if they are only doing it to get votes. As a politician, what would you do if all of a sudden you did not need 50%+1 of votes anymore but instead could win with 19% or even less of the votes?

Think carefully about what you wish for because once JC gets it the city is stuck with that decision for a very long time if not forever.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 15:02
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2006/1/18 14:10
Last Login :
2016/6/11 16:43
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 230
Offline
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

shakatah wrote:
And there is no way that you get to 50%+1 of the electoral votes after getting only 19% of the popular vote without the country imploding in chaos because that would be a stolen election.


So your argument boils down to "it could happen but I don't like it". Neither did the South btw, when Lincoln won with 39.65%. But we're talking about what is possible, not what you like.

But speaking of stolen elections and things we would not like, do you realize what happens if a presidential election ends up with no one getting 50% of the EC? It goes to the House, where every STATE gets 1 vote. That's right, Wyoming with 600k people gets the same vote as California with 39M. How's THAT for democracy! The GOP would adore it, they've got way more sparsely populated states.

Life is like dinner at a highway rest stop: sometimes all you have is the lesser of 2 evils.


No Brewster, my argument is 50%+1 is a sensible standard in a democracy. There is a reason it is the standard in representative democracies. The voice of the majority is key. Nothing is perfect, but what you are advocating is moving FROM a standard that REQUIRES a majority of voters to choose a candidate for them to win to one that candidates CAN CONSISTENTLY WIN with a threshold that we have seen from a past JC race could be as low as 19%. Why should any voter wan't to make it EASIER for a candidate to win election??? Why advocate for a change where you win although 81% of voters did not choose you? That doesn't make sense to me. So my reasoning isn't "I don't like it so it can't happen", instead it's "It doesn't make sense in a democracy, so it shouldn't happen." This is a democracy, so I am only one voice. Everyone who votes will get to decide.

Posted on: 2015/11/24 14:48
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2012/8/6 22:56
Last Login :
7/4 21:40
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 1021
Offline
Quote:

shakatah wrote:
Brewster, I'll say this just once more for clarity. 50%+1 of electoral votes are required, not one vote less. And there is no way that you get to 50%+1 of the electoral votes after getting only 19% of the popular vote without the country imploding in chaos because that would be a stolen election.

Most states are winner-take-all and plurality votes. Thus, if the candidate with the most votes only had 19% of the popular vote, but still won 270 EC votes, they'd be President.

People might not like it, but it'd be perfectly legal, and would demonstrate what many people already know: The Electoral College is an undemocratic mechanism. It was intentionally designed that way by the Framers.

Nor is a 19% any worse IMO than having the Supreme Court decide, or the 1824 election (in which Jackson won both the popular vote AND had more EC votes, but the House selected Adams instead).

Fortunately, if the citizens of Jersey City want to keep runoffs, all they have to do is vote for it. Of course, if that happens to be an election with a low turnout, and more than 50% vote to eliminate runoffs, it seems like you should be willing to accept the decision of the majority. No...?

Posted on: 2015/11/24 14:39
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2004/11/6 21:13
Last Login :
Yesterday 20:22
From Hamilton Park
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 5540
Offline
Quote:

shakatah wrote:
And there is no way that you get to 50%+1 of the electoral votes after getting only 19% of the popular vote without the country imploding in chaos because that would be a stolen election.


So your argument boils down to "it could happen but I don't like it". Neither did the South btw, when Lincoln won with 39.65%. But we're talking about what is possible, not what you like.

But speaking of stolen elections and things we would not like, do you realize what happens if a presidential election ends up with no one getting 50% of the EC? It goes to the House, where every STATE gets 1 vote. That's right, Wyoming with 600k people gets the same vote as California with 39M. How's THAT for democracy! The GOP would adore it, they've got way more sparsely populated states.

Life is like dinner at a highway rest stop: sometimes all you have is the lesser of 2 evils.

Posted on: 2015/11/23 23:23
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2006/1/18 14:10
Last Login :
2016/6/11 16:43
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 230
Offline
Quote:

brewster wrote:
shakatah: you said "if Bill Clinton only got 19% of the popular or electoral vote in that election , would he have been elected president?"

The answer to the "popular" question is still YES. Had you actually read my post, I noted the EC takes 50%+1, but the popular vote is a different animal. You have chosen to ignore the entirety of what I said in order to repeat your belief (I won't grace it with the description of "argument") once again.

We have had 18 Presidents who won with less than 50% of the popular vote, the lowest being JQ Adams with 30%. Lincoln had 39.65%. Your premise that being elected by less than 50% is illegitimate is absurd. And primaries have nothing to do with it. They do not legitimize or delegitimize a candidate. The majority of states didn't even have presidential primaries until after 1968.


Brewster, I'll say this just once more for clarity. 50%+1 of electoral votes are required, not one vote less. And there is no way that you get to 50%+1 of the electoral votes after getting only 19% of the popular vote without the country imploding in chaos because that would be a stolen election.

My argument has always been that we should not change the threshold for winning an election from 50%+1(majority) to something lower. Runoffs are ONLY necessary when no candidate got the majority of the votes cast. I want the mayor of my city to get the majority of votes cast to win election and I think most voters will agree with that position. Why any voter would want a mayor, council, etc. that was not chosen by the majority of voters in their city is beyond me. Actually, I don't even understand why an elected official would want to win without getting a majority. You don't see it that way and that's o.k. because that is why eliminating runoffs requires a majority of votes cast to become reality. If the proposal to eliminate runoffs sees daylight, we'll see what the voters think. Until then...be well.

Posted on: 2015/11/23 22:18
Top


Re: Fulop wants to change the election from May to November
Home away from home
Home away from home


Hide User information
Joined :
2010/8/17 1:45
Last Login :
4/21 11:12
Group:
Registered Users
Posts: 3043
Offline
Quote:

neverleft wrote:
Below is the JJ link that Yvonne posted it is really disgusting how Matsioudis and his new “friends” are trying to stop this. (her post didn’t have the title or paragraph breaks..hard to read)

Fulop plan to move Jersey City elections may hit roadblock

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on November 20, 2015 at 3:49 PM, updated November 20, 2015 at 4:24 PM

JERSEY CITY — Mayor Steve Fulop's push to move city elections to November isn't formalized yet, but there's an effort afoot to keep it from becoming a reality.

A committee of five community activists has started a petition drive aimed at using a state law to force the council to repeal the ordinance, which was expected to be adopted on Tuesday, or to call a special election asking voters if the measure should be adopted.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... r.html#incart_river_index


JJ comment: Quote:
“It is led by Bill Matsikoudis, a longtime Fulop rival who lost his job as corporation counsel when Fulop unseated Jerramiah Healy in 2013.”

Thank you for finally printing the main reason behind all of this. #sourgrapes


Moving or not moving council elections to November involves changing the remuneration of council members. And by Matsikoudis's own argument against the double-dipping ballot - doesn't that mean they need to get a lot more signatures to get the question on the ballot?


Quote:

http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=165779

But because the ordinance involves the earnings of council members, Bill Matsikoudis, the city's top attorney, determined Fulop needed to collect more than 12,000 signatures.




Posted on: 2015/11/22 13:22
Top




(1) 2 3 4 ... 11 »




[Advanced Search]





Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!



LicenseInformation | AboutUs | PrivacyPolicy | Faq | Contact


JERSEY CITY LIST - News & Reviews - Jersey City, NJ - Copyright 2004 - 2017