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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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Agreed. And if you have kids and presumably work to make that 100K, its really not going to go far in this neck of the woods. Good luck finding full time daycare for less than 18K a year. And if you have student loans (presumable to get a degree that allows you to make 100K), that's probably another 600 to 1000K per month payment, on top of your other expenses. At this rate, you are living paycheck to paycheck.


Gosh, I wasn't even thinking about kids. Can't really imagine kids in the NYC-metro on less than $250k-$300k/year.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 14:05
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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blanquiita wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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moobycow wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.


This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.


No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.


It's mediocre based on what?


Seriously! HOW in this economy is $100K considered "mediocre"? What mid- to late-90s planet are you living on?


I hate to even venture into this particular debate, but I kind of get what devilsadvocate is saying. If I was only making 100K per year, I don't know how I would make do. Maybe I like living large a little too much. But 100K in this region is really not much at all. After basic expenses (rent, car payments, auto and health insurance, utilities, etc) I would be living with very little left over to enjoy myself.


Exactly. You can't get decent housing, a good car, and live a decent lifestyle on $100k. Not in the NYC-metro area, anyway. In middle America where you can get a decent house for about $100k that might be fine. But if I were earning only $100k per year I'd be pretty depressed.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 14:03
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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Agreed. And if you have kids and presumably work to make that 100K, its really not going to go far in this neck of the woods. Good luck finding full time daycare for less than 18K a year. And if you have student loans (presumable to get a degree that allows you to make 100K), that's probably another 600 to 1000K per month payment, on top of your other expenses. At this rate, you are living paycheck to paycheck.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 14:02
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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blanquiita wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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moobycow wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.


This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.


No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.


It's mediocre based on what?


Seriously! HOW in this economy is $100K considered "mediocre"? What mid- to late-90s planet are you living on?


I hate to even venture into this particular debate, but I kind of get what devilsadvocate is saying. If I was only making 100K per year, I don't know how I would make do. Maybe I like living large a little too much. But 100K in this region is really not much at all. After basic expenses (rent, car payments, auto and health insurance, utilities, etc) I would be living with very little left over to enjoy myself.

Posted on: 2014/9/11 12:45
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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moobycow wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.


This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.


No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.


It's mediocre based on what?


Seriously! HOW in this economy is $100K considered "mediocre"? What mid- to late-90s planet are you living on?

Posted on: 2014/9/11 2:40
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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It all doesn't make sense.

City planners hide the truth from this community association.

then cityhall uses,

City prosecutors to represent (via lobbing) this community association

Are City planners at war with City prosecutors and the city prosecuting themselves?

Posted on: 2014/9/10 22:52
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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Why should they be second-class citizens?? Plenty of people buy and rent places that don't have parking. They get permits. You're suggesting that people who got here first have more rights? Maybe American indians should get first dibs on the parking spots.


Since Yvonne has been here as long as the American Indians, she would probably like this idea.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 20:31
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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$1800 seems kind of high for "affordable" the average rent in Jersey City is hovering over a grand if not less. I would think $800 would be the better number. Perhaps it is the market value for the neighborhood income.


Better still charge nothing, then they would be Stay Free Mini Pads.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 20:06
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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Why should they be second-class citizens?? Plenty of people buy and rent places that don't have parking. They get permits. You're suggesting that people who got here first have more rights? Maybe American indians should get first dibs on the parking spots.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 19:53
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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Forgive me if this has been discussed already, but what about writing something into the lease of these units that the tenant acknowledges that in renting a unit therein, they are forfeiting their right to a JC street parking permit in choosing to rent at that building? That they acknowledge upfront that residents are not permitted to use street parking.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 19:33
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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I spoke before the city council when this came up in 2011, the city clerk said it would be housing similar to what is already there with parking. Fulop was the councilman then. Somehow it changed from similar housing in the neighborhood to micro-units.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 19:32
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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I don't know if you folks have looked at apartments downtown for a while. $1800 is on the high side, but this will be a new building with some pretty good amenities. Plus, it won't come on line for a couple of years, so that will probably be about right at that time.

Totally agreed on the parking thing, tommyc; there's nothing more depressing than walking down the street looking at garages.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 19:27
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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$1800 seems kind of high for "affordable" the average rent in Jersey City is hovering over a grand if not less. I would think $800 would be the better number. Perhaps it is the market value for the neighborhood income.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 19:10
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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My only slight beef with this is the design; I don't think it fits into the surrounding historical area. It's not bad looking (kind of cool looking), but definitely not historically sensitive. Now, Bright Street isn't particularly "historic" looking, with that modern school there, but isn't this still in a historically protected zone?

Not having parking in this building is an architectural blessing. It drives me nuts that the Rosina on Wayne Street (which is otherwise fairly well designed) has it's entire first floor dedicated to a constantly lit-up parking garage, on a beautiful residential block. It just kills the streetscape and looks Montclair-ish. And it's TWO BLOCKS to Grove Street Path!! Was parking necessary in that building? Real estate here will sell, with or without parking.

I think adding parking in new developments in Jersey City is just enabling people to have cars when they don't really need it, which will utterly destroy traffic conditions around here for the (decreasing) number of people who truly do need cars (disabled people, or people who need to travel to fairly remote places on a regular basis).

Build these buildings with no parking or limited parking - the people that will move into these buildings will therefore not be car-centric people - it's that simple. Which, by the way, will make the sidewalks of Jersey City a much more dynamic and bustling environment, which is how a dense city should be.

Parts of downtown Jersey City look and feel like downtown Dayton, OH and that's just not good. Let's learn from the architectural mistakes of the past 15 years.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 17:42
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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devilsadvocate wrote:
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moobycow wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.


This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.


No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.


It's mediocre based on what?

Posted on: 2014/9/10 16:42
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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devilsadvocate wrote:
Quote:

moobycow wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.


This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.


No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.


Really? It's all pretty relative. If you're single (I assume the people in this building will be single) and making $100k you are doing pretty well, even in this area. Consider you could spend $2k a month on rent and it would be about the same as someone making ~$70k and living rent free.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 16:39
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:

It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.


This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.


No it can't. $100k is a really mediocre salary and no way that will be true unless there's a huge bonus involved.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 16:31
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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Glad to see progressive, high density development winning out over the parking NIMBYs. I seriously can't believe this is still going on and VVPA and Candice were doing a disservice by dragging this through the courts when it didn't have a chance of being stopped.

You can all say this isn't about parking all you want but somehow that keeps coming up as point number one on any news article or press release relating to this project. This is the kind of development that belongs in a dense city and the type that most other forward thinking cities in the US would be actively courting.

We should be glad that an empty lot surrounding by rusted old fencing on a not particularly scenic road will now be providing (relatively) affordable housing. Hopefully this, the pedestrian plaza, and other initiatives will send a message to the Yvonnes of the world that cities can't be preserved in amber forever.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 16:20
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.


This is very true, just because you want to rent doesn't mean a developer will let you. Still, the guidelines are pretty flexible and I think they allow pretty high percentage of salary before they reject you.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 40% of your salary can leave very little wiggle room when you're making 30k, but a lot of discretionary money when you're making 100k.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 15:51
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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WHoelsecould it be - A developer should negotiate because sometimes when they don't, they lose - even in JC. The Village association recently defeated a proposed building seeking variances. A full blown hearing ook place before the Jersey City Board of zoning. see letter from Village website, posted below:

Dear Village Resident

Over the past several months, the Village Neighborhood Association Board of Directors (VNA) engaged in a significant and successful effort to make sure that the concerns of the community and adjoining property owners were taken into consideration regarding a proposed twenty unit, five story apartment complex at 377-383 Fourth Street.

The proposed apartment complex was to sit immediately adjacent to Public School 5 and six residential properties. The proposed building was to be about the same height as the school and would have blocked sunlight to the easterly facing windows of PS 5 where young children seek to learn and grow. The complex as proposed would have also towered over both the schoolyard, which includes a children’s garden, and the many adjacent residential homes and their backyards.

The VNA actively communicated with both the owner and his representatives as well as the Division of City Planning. The VNA’s goals were to strike a proper balance between what was being proposed and what is currently permissible for the location (one and two family 3 story homes). While we made some progress (the original proposal was for an even larger apartment complex with a massive party deck), unfortunately a compromise was not reached.

At a public hearing before the Jersey City Zoning Board of Adjustments on Thursday April 17, 2014, the VNA and members of the community voiced their concerns and objections to the proposed project. We were appreciative of the Zoning Board for taking the time to carefully consider our objections. It was apparent to us that they cared deeply about the Village neighborhood, and at one point during the proceedings, the chairwoman commented that “the Village neighborhood is one of the last funky and cool neighborhoods in Jersey City”, and “attention should be given to preserving this aspect of the neighborhood”. This prompted a spontaneous round of applause from the many VNA members in attendance. We couldn’t have agreed more. At the conclusion of the hearing (which lasted two hours), the Zoning Board voted unanimously to deny the needed variances to construct the proposed project. The efforts of the VNA and community proved both worthwhile and successful.

We are often asked “What do neighborhood associations do?” Looking back on the hundreds of hours the team had collectively spent over the past few months, this effort perfectly answered that question. For the past seven years, the VNA has maintained a process designed to handle similar demands on our neighborhood from quality of life issues to development. The VNA was able to quickly mobilize and connect the dots between city agencies, developer, PS 5 school community, and Village residents through a clear strategy and dissemination of timely and accurate information about the proposed project.

The VNA will continue to fight passionately on behalf of the children of PS5 and members of the Village community as we vigilantly represent our neighborhood. Moving forward, and as we stated to the owner, we look to continue our discussions in regards to the development of 377-383 Fourth Street so that a mutually agreeable project can be accomplished. We will provide updates and feedback to the community regarding any changes to the project’s status.

Regards,

VNA Board of Directors

Posted on: 2014/9/10 15:51
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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asny10011 wrote:

When I rented in manhattan, it was 50

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asny10011 wrote:
At 1800, does that mean the tenant needs to make approximately 50X (like in nyc?) i.e., 90,000?


Where do you get that number? 1/3 of salary on rent (or 36x) to 40x is the commonly quoted figures I see in rental discussions. $1800 would mean $64,800 income at 1/3.


I think as the economy continues to get worse, it is becoming more acceptable to spend a larger portion of your gross salary on rent.


It doesn't matter if YOU are willing to spend more of your salary on rent. Developers/bankers/loaners use guidelines such as 40x (current going rate in most of NYC) because they know that is a PRUDENT risk for them to take on. Allowing people to commit to expenses that high relative to their earning power/capability is part of the reason why we found ourselves in the mortgage crisis. Some people just can't manage their own finances and do not understand money and are too often too willing to accept risks that are not prudent.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 15:04
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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honestly, if one is living in a micro-unit, what are the chances that one will have a car when public transport and zipcars are readily available.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 11:54
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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asny10011 wrote:

When I rented in manhattan, it was 50

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brewster wrote:
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asny10011 wrote:
At 1800, does that mean the tenant needs to make approximately 50X (like in nyc?) i.e., 90,000?


Where do you get that number? 1/3 of salary on rent (or 36x) to 40x is the commonly quoted figures I see in rental discussions. $1800 would mean $64,800 income at 1/3.


I think as the economy continues to get worse, it is becoming more acceptable to spend a larger portion of your gross salary on rent.

Posted on: 2014/9/10 0:58
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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When I rented in manhattan, it was 50

Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

asny10011 wrote:
At 1800, does that mean the tenant needs to make approximately 50X (like in nyc?) i.e., 90,000?


Where do you get that number? 1/3 of salary on rent (or 36x) to 40x is the commonly quoted figures I see in rental discussions. $1800 would mean $64,800 income at 1/3.

Posted on: 2014/9/9 23:43
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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It's supposed to provide a cost-effective alternative for people starting out in the work force. So i presume about 1200-1500 for a 400 sq ft unit.


Try up to $1800, per one of the articles posted the last time this was in the news. You can still get a real apartment in the neighborhood for that price.


If so, people won't rent there then right?


Or other apartments in the neighborhood will jump in rent.


How do you figure?

Posted on: 2014/9/9 22:46
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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It's supposed to provide a cost-effective alternative for people starting out in the work force. So i presume about 1200-1500 for a 400 sq ft unit.


Try up to $1800, per one of the articles posted the last time this was in the news. You can still get a real apartment in the neighborhood for that price.


If so, people won't rent there then right?


Or other apartments in the neighborhood will jump in rent.

Posted on: 2014/9/9 22:07
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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asny10011 wrote:
At 1800, does that mean the tenant needs to make approximately 50X (like in nyc?) i.e., 90,000?


Where do you get that number? 1/3 of salary on rent (or 36x) to 40x is the commonly quoted figures I see in rental discussions. $1800 would mean $64,800 income at 1/3.

Posted on: 2014/9/9 22:03
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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by asny10011 on 2014/9/9 16:10
It's supposed to provide a cost-effective alternative for people starting out in the work force. So i presume about 1200-1500 for a 400 sq ft unit.


An excerpt from a good article about the development from the Hudson Reporter - written in September 2013
-----------------------

"To keep the residents from going stir crazy in their mini apartments, Rushman said the building will include several common spaces that will give residents a sense of space and foster community. These communal spaces include an on-site, multi-level gym that will span all five floors of the development, two community rooms, a coffee bar, and hallway seating on each floor.

The on-site property manager, he said, “Will be less of a ‘handyman’ and more like a social director who will organize events and activities for the residents.”

Prices have not been set for the units, Rushman said. But current rough estimates for rent range from about $1,600 on the low end to $1,800, depending on the size of the unit and whether it has a balcony. The market-rate housing units are being built without federal or state subsidies. Thus, there will be no government mandated income requirements residents will have to meet, as with affordable and workforce housing.

Rushman added that he and Dillon have already had conversations with Jersey City Medical Center about ways to market the units to recent medical school graduates doing their residency at the hospital, which is about four blocks away from Bright and Varick."


Read more: Hudson Reporter - Tiny apartments Hudson County s first micro unit development planned for Jersey City

Posted on: 2014/9/9 21:27
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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At 1800, does that mean the tenant needs to make approximately 50X (like in nyc?) i.e., 90,000?


Quote:

FakeGreenDress wrote:
Quote:

asny10011 wrote:

It's supposed to provide a cost-effective alternative for people starting out in the work force. So i presume about 1200-1500 for a 400 sq ft unit.


Try up to $1800, per one of the articles posted the last time this was in the news. You can still get a real apartment in the neighborhood for that price.

Posted on: 2014/9/9 21:11
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Re: Judge OKs site plan for controversial 'micro-unit' project in Jersey City
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FakeGreenDress wrote:
Quote:

asny10011 wrote:

It's supposed to provide a cost-effective alternative for people starting out in the work force. So i presume about 1200-1500 for a 400 sq ft unit.


Try up to $1800, per one of the articles posted the last time this was in the news. You can still get a real apartment in the neighborhood for that price.


If so, people won't rent there then right?

Posted on: 2014/9/9 21:02
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