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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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I wonder if all of these redactions includes names of those who got no bid city contracts.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 11:03
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Monroe wrote:
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terrencemcd wrote:
Among redactions on Fulop's schedule, three political fundraisers

By Terrence T. McDonald
The Jersey Journal

Invitations received yesterday by The Jersey Journal show that three political fundraisers where Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop was a featured guest are among the hundreds of entries in Fulop’s schedule that city officials redacted before giving them to The Jersey Journal.

The new information flies in the face of city officials’ contention that they only redacted meetings to protect the privacy of individuals who met with the mayor. And it raises additional concerns about whether there are any more similar events among the 605 entries blacked out on Fulop’s calendar.

A source provided the invitations in response to yesterday’s Jersey Journal cover story about the mayor’s schedule, which city officials heavily redacted before giving it to the newspaper pursuant to a state Open Public Records Act (OPRA) request. City officials blacked out 605 of 1,465 entries on the calendar, saying state law prevented them from releasing the names of private individuals who met with the mayor.

READ MORE


So groups headline Fulop's name to bring in people for fundraisers, but it's a privacy issue to note that he attended said fundraiser on his official schedule??

It's not a privacy issue. It's the freaking law.

I'm all for open government but if I saw rampant corruption and was able to schedule a meeting with the mayor so that I could help expose it, I would certainly want my name withheld.

In regards to fundraisers... unless they occur with government individuals, the law states that it has to be redacted.

I have no doubt that, at minimum, half of those redacted meetings are with people or organizations that are current donors or potential donors. I would assume that the vast majority are donors for his own campaign but there may be some that he is soliciting for the city, ala Booker.

You can't really adjust the law in order to say that meetings with potential donors will be disclosed since anyone can be a potential donor. What if I really am breaking some scandal that needs his help to resolve? After it's over, maybe I donate to his campaign because I liked the way he worked when I brought the problem to his attention. Should my name now be added or un-redacted?

Posted on: 2014/3/18 10:39
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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terrencemcd wrote:
Among redactions on Fulop's schedule, three political fundraisers

By Terrence T. McDonald
The Jersey Journal

Invitations received yesterday by The Jersey Journal show that three political fundraisers where Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop was a featured guest are among the hundreds of entries in Fulop’s schedule that city officials redacted before giving them to The Jersey Journal.

The new information flies in the face of city officials’ contention that they only redacted meetings to protect the privacy of individuals who met with the mayor. And it raises additional concerns about whether there are any more similar events among the 605 entries blacked out on Fulop’s calendar.

A source provided the invitations in response to yesterday’s Jersey Journal cover story about the mayor’s schedule, which city officials heavily redacted before giving it to the newspaper pursuant to a state Open Public Records Act (OPRA) request. City officials blacked out 605 of 1,465 entries on the calendar, saying state law prevented them from releasing the names of private individuals who met with the mayor.

READ MORE


So groups headline Fulop's name to bring in people for fundraisers, but it's a privacy issue to note that he attended said fundraiser on his official schedule??

Posted on: 2014/3/18 7:47
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Among redactions on Fulop's schedule, three political fundraisers

By Terrence T. McDonald
The Jersey Journal

Invitations received yesterday by The Jersey Journal show that three political fundraisers where Jersey City Mayor Steve Fulop was a featured guest are among the hundreds of entries in Fulop’s schedule that city officials redacted before giving them to The Jersey Journal.

The new information flies in the face of city officials’ contention that they only redacted meetings to protect the privacy of individuals who met with the mayor. And it raises additional concerns about whether there are any more similar events among the 605 entries blacked out on Fulop’s calendar.

A source provided the invitations in response to yesterday’s Jersey Journal cover story about the mayor’s schedule, which city officials heavily redacted before giving it to the newspaper pursuant to a state Open Public Records Act (OPRA) request. City officials blacked out 605 of 1,465 entries on the calendar, saying state law prevented them from releasing the names of private individuals who met with the mayor.

READ MORE

Posted on: 2014/3/18 7:33
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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La_Verdad wrote:
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Monroe wrote:

40% of his time is spent, right after winning election,


Interesting you should mention right after the election... you started posting here the day after the election and have racked up something north of 800 posts in about 10 months - the majority of them bitching about Fulop in any way imaginable. What was your job in the old administration? Or your husband's?


Wrong, and wrong. I post on a variety of issues here, political and non, and never worked OR know anyone who works or has worked for the city of JC. I will say I've met Fulop, and he was quite pleasant. But I enjoy mocking hypocrisy, because I feel it deserves derision.

Majority of posts bitching about Fulop? Look again, it's a tiny fraction. Of course, that's the way to try and put someone down-lie about what they say. It won't work with me, you'll have to try harder than to make shit up as you go.

But you're very thin skinned in defending Fulop, are you afraid to find out the Emperor has no clothes?

Posted on: 2014/3/17 20:23
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Yvonne wrote:
In the follow-up story by Terrance McDonald, there is a poll, apparently 79% said there should be a change. The information should be public.

Internet polls do not determine the structure of political rights.

That said, if public support is really that overwhelming, then go get the law changed.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 20:09
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Could it be that with a history of graft and corruption in JC, those in the know are prepared to whistleblow on the situation and only privately to the top guy in office?

JC is still in damage control with all the corrupt and shady practises of the previous Mayor and their administrators appointed by them.

You can only move forward once you learn from history!

Its a bit like a criminal case when the defence can use the history of an accused (hardship / upbringing etc) yet the prosecutor is often not allowed to use their same history to prosecute.

Not everything is open to the public, but you can bet everything is recorded for those to act on - Even in a trial you would think everything should be 'out on the table' to convict or establish a non-guilty verdict by a jury and not behind closed doors in the Judges Chamber.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 20:09
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Monroe wrote:

40% of his time is spent, right after winning election,


Interesting you should mention right after the election... you started posting here the day after the election and have racked up something north of 800 posts in about 10 months - the majority of them bitching about Fulop in any way imaginable. What was your job in the old administration? Or your husband's?

Posted on: 2014/3/17 19:27
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Dolomiti wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
40% of his time is spent, right after winning election, with looking for donations from private individuals (not those representing special interest groups)???

Yet again: Elected officials are only allowed to publish information when they meet with government officials, govt employees, or when he's at a public event.

It does NOT say that he can only redact the name of private individuals.

And again, if you look at his donor list, there are far more individuals than organizations. That's very common, more so with Democrats than Republicans.


Again, at a government event (a League of Municipality convention in Atlantic City) he has 35 of 39 meetings over 3 days with people who are NOT government officials or government employees?? WTF was he doing there then???

Posted on: 2014/3/17 16:12
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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In the follow-up story by Terrance McDonald, there is a poll, apparently 79% said there should be a change. The information should be public.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 15:56
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Monroe wrote:
40% of his time is spent, right after winning election, with looking for donations from private individuals (not those representing special interest groups)???

Yet again: Elected officials are only allowed to publish information when they meet with government officials, govt employees, or when he's at a public event.

It does NOT say that he can only redact the name of private individuals.

And again, if you look at his donor list, there are far more individuals than organizations. That's very common, more so with Democrats than Republicans.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 15:44
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Dolomiti wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
Any executive who's spending 40% of his time meeting with 'private citizens'....

...is doing the same thing as every other politician: Asking for donations.

And if those donation requests are successful, they go into the public record.

What are you, new?


Quote:
Fulop better get ahead of this story, rather than stonewalling, because the optics are terrible.

Well, if the optics are terrible....

There is nothing he can do about it. State law prevents him from revealing the requested information. He's not going to break the law because of an Internet poll. Fulop is not a state legislator, and cannot change that law.


Nonsense. As it said in the article, it's as if the foxes are guarding the hen house. And as we saw today in Hoboken, what was once redacted is now un-redacted . . .

40% of his time is spent, right after winning election, with looking for donations from private individuals (not those representing special interest groups)???

Again, if he had 39 meetings during a 3 day League of Municipality conference, and 35 were redacted-jeez, you're buying that they were with 'private' individuals?


Posted on: 2014/3/17 15:23
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Monroe wrote:
Any executive who's spending 40% of his time meeting with 'private citizens'....

...is doing the same thing as every other politician: Asking for donations.

And if those donation requests are successful, they go into the public record.

What are you, new?


Quote:
Fulop better get ahead of this story, rather than stonewalling, because the optics are terrible.

Well, if the optics are terrible....

There is nothing he can do about it. State law prevents him from revealing the requested information. He's not going to break the law because of an Internet poll. Fulop is not a state legislator, and cannot change that law.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 15:05
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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The law was created to protect the public official, not the public. As I said before, public officials use security, water, lights, and public buildings to meet with people. While I do not think I should know what is said, I do believe hiding this information is not what transparency is all about. My solution - change any law that hides transparency.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 14:24
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Any executive who's spending 40% of his time meeting with 'private citizens' whose identity needs to be hidden is a lousy delegator-doesn't Fulop have staff to hear neighborhood noise complaints, beefs with parking tickets, dog poo problems, etc?

Of course, we know that's not the case-when 35 of 39 meetings in Atlantic City during a League of Municipalities conference are redacted. Did all those people drive 2 hours south DURING AN OFFICIAL CONFERENCE to meet with him as 'private citizens'?

And the Jersey Journal is staying on top of the story

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... html#incart_river_default

Fulop better get ahead of this story, rather than stonewalling, because the optics are terrible.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 14:16
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Yvonne wrote:
Stack has held meetings with constituents during the summer, where a street is closed off and a tent, tables and chairs are set up in the open.

He refers to it as his "mobile office."

Even with that setup, he still sees 350-400 people a week in his office, which are subject to the exact same law as Fulop. If you put in a FOIA request for his schedule, a lot of that will be redacted.

While I'm not an expert on the law, it is entirely plausible that even the names attendees of those meetings on the street cannot be officially published by his office.

So as I said: You are confusing good ol' retail politics with an impulse for transparency.

http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... ffice-?instance=more_page

Posted on: 2014/3/17 14:13
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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All of you people are really silly. This is a law which the administration is complying with which means that fulop plus all the other officials not named in this silly thread also redact their public meetings.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 13:46
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Joshua, your comment should be directed to the Jersey Journal, not me. I didn't ask to see his schedule.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 13:10
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Yvonne wrote:
My friend who had a meeting with Stack said: Stack has held meetings with constituents during the summer, where a street is closed off and a tent, tables and chairs are set up in the open.
You have to schedule an appointment in advance to meet with him. The meeting takes place in the open and on the street. Everyone can see who he is seated with during the meeting.


So are you going to ask for his diary? Again, I'll help with the copy costs.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 12:32
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Yvonne wrote:
My friend who had a meeting with Stack said: Stack has held meetings with constituents during the summer, where a street is closed off and a tent, tables and chairs are set up in the open.
You have to schedule an appointment in advance to meet with him. The meeting takes place in the open and on the street. Everyone can see who he is seated with during the meeting.


I lived in Union City for awhile, and from what I observed, Stack is the real deal.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 12:02
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Toonces wrote:
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Dolomiti wrote:

Again: If that is your concern, look at his donor list. I even gave you a link right to it.

If you do, you'll see that the single biggest donor to the Fulop campaign is... Steven Fulop. By a huge margin. Go figure.


Interesting, though, that his personal contributions are listed as "loans". I guess this is normal...? I can't say I've ever looked at this sort of list before...

Anyway, regarding this whole issue with redacting the calendar entries - it could very easily be resolved if they were simply redacted with a side-note along the lines of "met with private citizen, name redacted for confidentiality". Heck, I'll pay for the rubber stamp that says it. The problem I have is that when so MUCH is redacted, it's easy (normal?) to assume that there are a lot of other things going on, besides individual meetings. Redactions, as potentially innocuous as they may be, obviously inspire conspiracy theories.

On a side note, the constant "my guy does this, but YOUR guy is much worse!" claims and deflections do absolutely nothing to advance an intelligent discourse. We should be able to have an intelligent discussion about the present and this specific issue without constantly drudging up the past (or current, ancillary distractions). Do we all really need to constantly be flame-bating, internet tough guys?


"Everyone who criticises my guy is a flame-baring troll." Haven't heard that one before.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 11:01
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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My friend who had a meeting with Stack said: Stack has held meetings with constituents during the summer, where a street is closed off and a tent, tables and chairs are set up in the open.
You have to schedule an appointment in advance to meet with him. The meeting takes place in the open and on the street. Everyone can see who he is seated with during the meeting.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 10:59
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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(Same thing, bigger stage.)

"If you screw up in government, just mark it top secret." - Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt

-snip-

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Obama administration more often than ever censored government files or outright denied access to them last year under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act, according to a new analysis of federal data by The Associated Press. 

The administration cited more legal exceptions it said justified withholding materials and refused a record number of times to turn over files quickly that might be especially newsworthy. Most agencies also took longer to answer records requests, the analysis found. 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03 ... ty-records_n_4976597.html

Posted on: 2014/3/17 10:58
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Dolomiti wrote:

Again: If that is your concern, look at his donor list. I even gave you a link right to it.

If you do, you'll see that the single biggest donor to the Fulop campaign is... Steven Fulop. By a huge margin. Go figure.


Interesting, though, that his personal contributions are listed as "loans". I guess this is normal...? I can't say I've ever looked at this sort of list before...

Anyway, regarding this whole issue with redacting the calendar entries - it could very easily be resolved if they were simply redacted with a side-note along the lines of "met with private citizen, name redacted for confidentiality". Heck, I'll pay for the rubber stamp that says it. The problem I have is that when so MUCH is redacted, it's easy (normal?) to assume that there are a lot of other things going on, besides individual meetings. Redactions, as potentially innocuous as they may be, obviously inspire conspiracy theories.

On a side note, the constant "my guy does this, but YOUR guy is much worse!" claims and deflections do absolutely nothing to advance an intelligent discourse. We should be able to have an intelligent discussion about the present and this specific issue without constantly drudging up the past (or current, ancillary distractions). Do we all really need to constantly be flame-bating, internet tough guys?

Posted on: 2014/3/17 10:38
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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by Br6dR on 2014/3/17 8:04:47

Give me one scenario where someone needs confidentiality when speaking to a mayor.


Hypothetically:

Let's say a home or business owner is trying to get a permit for improvements to their property or business and they feel they are not getting a fair shake from the building dept. So they schedule a meeting with the mayor or their ward council representative to discuss it. They are then told that their name and meeting date/time are subject to public disclosure. They might be wary of having this meeting for fear the building dept will get wind of it and make the situation more difficult.

A more critical situation would exist where a person wanted to discuss accusations of malfeasance within the police dept or prosecutor's office.

To be clear, I have not had these types of concerns and I am not a conspiracy theorist so would not be compelled by public disclosure either way. But good governance requires that all citizens feel safe when communicating with their elected officials.

Citizens should have this right to privacy whatever the reason. For those wishing a public audience, they may always avail themselves of our open-to-the-public, televised city council meetings.

Kudos to the administration for adhering to this.


User1111 linked a good example in this post http://jclist.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=344442

Residents should have the right to talk to their elected officials without having to fear retaliation or reprisals from any source. That trumps transparency.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 10:19
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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by Br6dR on 2014/3/17 8:04:47

Give me one scenario where someone needs confidentiality when speaking to a mayor.


Hypothetically:

Let's say a home or business owner is trying to get a permit for improvements to their property or business and they feel they are not getting a fair shake from the building dept. So they schedule a meeting with the mayor or their ward council representative to discuss it. They are then told that their name and meeting date/time are subject to public disclosure. They might be wary of having this meeting for fear the building dept will get wind of it and make the situation more difficult.

A more critical situation would exist where a person wanted to discuss accusations of malfeasance within the police dept or prosecutor's office.

To be clear, I have not had these types of concerns and I am not a conspiracy theorist so would not be compelled by public disclosure either way. But good governance requires that all citizens feel safe when communicating with their elected officials.

Citizens should have this right to privacy whatever the reason. For those wishing a public audience, they may always avail themselves of our open-to-the-public, televised city council meetings.

Kudos to the administration for adhering to this.


Fine, then the mayor can redact that meeting. But the press shouldn't be hindered from knowing when a mayor has met with potential donors.

Like I said, the same people who are excusing everything Obama does were saying the exact opposite when the same thing happened under Bush. I've come to the conclusion that American politics is little more than a football game.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 10:17
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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La_Verdad wrote:
Let's be honest.... if "the Jersey" had requested Healy's calendar, Jerry would have chuckled and, after a lot of back and forth, handed the reporter a fistful of balled-up cocktail napkins with scribbles on them.


Ain't that the truth, La Verdad! LOL

Posted on: 2014/3/17 10:15
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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Oh those big mean dogs have pooped on my azaleas again. Who can help me with this?

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I better not find out you've been talking to the mayor, old woman

Posted on: 2014/3/17 10:01
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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by Br6dR on 2014/3/17 8:04:47

Give me one scenario where someone needs confidentiality when speaking to a mayor.


Hypothetically:

Let's say a home or business owner is trying to get a permit for improvements to their property or business and they feel they are not getting a fair shake from the building dept. So they schedule a meeting with the mayor or their ward council representative to discuss it. They are then told that their name and meeting date/time are subject to public disclosure. They might be wary of having this meeting for fear the building dept will get wind of it and make the situation more difficult.

A more critical situation would exist where a person wanted to discuss accusations of malfeasance within the police dept or prosecutor's office.

To be clear, I have not had these types of concerns and I am not a conspiracy theorist so would not be compelled by public disclosure either way. But good governance requires that all citizens feel safe when communicating with their elected officials.

Citizens should have this right to privacy whatever the reason. For those wishing a public audience, they may always avail themselves of our open-to-the-public, televised city council meetings.

Kudos to the administration for adhering to this.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 9:41
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Re: Why are almost half of Fulop's meeting hidden?
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How silly. Does anyone think Fulop is meeting with Al Qaeda during those critical missing meetings? he's listening to some old lady complain about dog poop. Relax, there's no scandal here.

Posted on: 2014/3/17 9:16
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