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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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To all the religious peeps, maybe this is a better state for you... Arizona Republican pushes for law to legalize religious discrimination -

Posted on: 2014/1/17 18:47
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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HCResident wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
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CatDog wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God
Time for a brief history lesson. Neither of those phrases existed in either the pledge of allegiance or on any of our money or anything until the 50s, when McCarthy's fearmongering bullied Congress into adopting it to prove they weren't Godless communists.


OK, thanks for the history lesson-but the fact remains that our Founding Fathers worked from a Christian basis, with God as their moral compass. Marriage meant what it meant, and making it 'marriage' wasn't on their compass, not for same sex couples or polygamous families or any other 'grouping' that will now be 'allowed'.


Really? Ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli? It was ratified unanimously by the US Senate and signed by President John Adams (one of the founders I believe) in 1797. It reads as follows:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

I added the bold. : )


That's so bigoted, messing up Monroe's beliefs about history with facts. My personal favorite Founding Father religion story is Jefferson editing out the parts of the bible he disliked with a scissors. Everyone picks and chooses, no matter how "sacred" we call the text, whether it's the bible or constitution. Why does a large part of this country worship the 2nd half of the 2nd Amendment, yet care nothing that the 4th has been trashed by everyone from the NSA to the local buildings dept? It's no different than citing the bible as their source for bigotry but ignoring the portions calling for charity or death by stoning.


Posted on: 2013/10/22 2:11
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

CatDog wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God
Time for a brief history lesson. Neither of those phrases existed in either the pledge of allegiance or on any of our money or anything until the 50s, when McCarthy's fearmongering bullied Congress into adopting it to prove they weren't Godless communists.


OK, thanks for the history lesson-but the fact remains that our Founding Fathers worked from a Christian basis, with God as their moral compass. Marriage meant what it meant, and making it 'marriage' wasn't on their compass, not for same sex couples or polygamous families or any other 'grouping' that will now be 'allowed'.


Really? Ever heard of the Treaty of Tripoli? It was ratified unanimously by the US Senate and signed by President John Adams (one of the founders I believe) in 1797. It reads as follows:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Mohammedan] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

I added the bold. : )

Posted on: 2013/10/22 1:47
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Beachguy wrote:
Yvonne, when you were talking with your husband about who your children would look like, did you also discuss whether they would be have characteristics of your husband's Caucasian heritage or your mixed race? Since you like to quote the bible:


The Old Testament Law commanded the Israelites not to engage in interracial marriage (Deuteronomy 7:3-4).

Genesis 28:1: "And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan."
Leviticus 19:19: "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind”
Deuteronomy 22:9: "Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled."

Will this, at long last, make you think about your hatred of those not like you? As Pope Francis said about gay people in his church, "Who am I to judge?" If you think yourself more holy, more Christ-like than the Pope, I'd like to understand why.
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Vigilante wrote:
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Yvonne wrote:
Before I married my husband, we talked about our future children and who they might look like, I guess that is one conversation same sex couple will not have.


Well they can decide ahead of time before making a deposit with the surrogate mommy.

http://celebritybabies.people.com/201 ... s-son-elijah-first-photo/


Yvonne doesn't really care what the Bible has to say about gays. Neither do any of the "believers" who rationalize their bigotry by pretending it's their legitimate religious beliefs.

If Yvonne and the others really cared about what the Bible instructs, she'd be all in support of the following:

"However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way."

Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT

Once Yvonne and the others demand that the country accept slavery as part of her "freedom of religion" and "religious beliefs," then I'd consider her a true believer. But these people don't have true religious objections to gay marriage. Instead, gays disgust them so they try to legitimize their disgust behind religion.

Posted on: 2013/10/22 0:40
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Yvonne, when you were talking with your husband about who your children would look like, did you also discuss whether they would be have characteristics of your husband's Caucasian heritage or your mixed race? Since you like to quote the bible:


The Old Testament Law commanded the Israelites not to engage in interracial marriage (Deuteronomy 7:3-4).

Genesis 28:1: "And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan."
Leviticus 19:19: "Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind”
Deuteronomy 22:9: "Thou shalt not sow thy vineyard with divers seeds: lest the fruit of thy seed which thou hast sown, and the fruit of thy vineyard, be defiled."

Will this, at long last, make you think about your hatred of those not like you? As Pope Francis said about gay people in his church, "Who am I to judge?" If you think yourself more holy, more Christ-like than the Pope, I'd like to understand why.
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Before I married my husband, we talked about our future children and who they might look like, I guess that is one conversation same sex couple will not have.


Well they can decide ahead of time before making a deposit with the surrogate mommy.

http://celebritybabies.people.com/201 ... s-son-elijah-first-photo/

Posted on: 2013/10/21 22:52
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Thanks Brewster but you are interfering... Monroe still hasn't answered CdeC questions, I would very like him to provide his wisdom since he seems to know everything about everybody including what goes through my mind. Now that the State has refused to appeal I would really suggest he steeps in to defend Our Founding Fathers principles with his friend Yvonne. The money from the cakes will unfortunately be necessary at this point.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 22:30
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
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Frinjc wrote:
@monroe: no I am not saying biggot or homophobe. I am just saying unaware (or ignorant if you prefer). This forum is about reality check. Some people here are rehashing their high school stereotypes as in defending their social status there - sounds familiar? Well they are being called onto that with actual comparison points. They are also being called upon their hypocritical religious revolving cloath by the US Constitution. Hopefully they will end up realizing that people have similar expectations in life which translate into similar behavior, something a 4 years old would have no issue picking up. Well, that's what the supreme court here found out today. In the end there is no real rational to deny equal treatment to gay couples. If Yvonne wants to offer gratis religiously sanctionned weeding cakes to couples of her choosing she can, the moment she sells them she can not discriminate.


You made her point entirely. Do you think that the Catholic Church, for example, should be forced to perform gay marriages? Or a Catholic hospital perform abortions? Why are Islamic families banned from practicing their religion here, ie multiple spouse marriages? Will the pro gay marriage people support that, because now marriage is opened up from one man/one woman to men/men or women/women? What about their rights? Will we see a return to traditional LDS plural marriages?

My point has been to allow all to have civil unions for Federal and State realities, and marriages to be religious, regardless of sex, religion, and number of partners. Isn't that a win/win? It seems the gay lobby wants to enforce a 'make straight and gay 'marriage' equivalent, and shut the barn door behind us' issue. It's an intellectually dishonest argument.


Wow, you got stones to use the phrase " intellectually dishonest argument"! I can't figure out in your argument who is harmed if gays can be called "married" rather than "unionized" if all civil protections are granted? As for Yvonne's theoretical bakery, it's not a religious institution, and therefore falls under civil law. Would you seriously defend a baker who wouldn't sell to an interracial couple? It's no different. No one favors forcing priests to marry gays any more than forcing them to marry non-catholics. What do you really care then if religious institutions that don't hate gays marry them? How are you harmed? As far as I can tell, in the name of your freedom of religion you want to deny others theirs.


You're trying to find logic where there is none. The religious right wants U.S. law to be based on their Christian Church's theology. Hence, they want the U.S. to be a theocracy, where all citizens are subject to their religious beliefs.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 21:54
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Frinjc wrote:
@monroe: no I am not saying biggot or homophobe. I am just saying unaware (or ignorant if you prefer). This forum is about reality check. Some people here are rehashing their high school stereotypes as in defending their social status there - sounds familiar? Well they are being called onto that with actual comparison points. They are also being called upon their hypocritical religious revolving cloath by the US Constitution. Hopefully they will end up realizing that people have similar expectations in life which translate into similar behavior, something a 4 years old would have no issue picking up. Well, that's what the supreme court here found out today. In the end there is no real rational to deny equal treatment to gay couples. If Yvonne wants to offer gratis religiously sanctionned weeding cakes to couples of her choosing she can, the moment she sells them she can not discriminate.


You made her point entirely. Do you think that the Catholic Church, for example, should be forced to perform gay marriages? Or a Catholic hospital perform abortions? Why are Islamic families banned from practicing their religion here, ie multiple spouse marriages? Will the pro gay marriage people support that, because now marriage is opened up from one man/one woman to men/men or women/women? What about their rights? Will we see a return to traditional LDS plural marriages?

My point has been to allow all to have civil unions for Federal and State realities, and marriages to be religious, regardless of sex, religion, and number of partners. Isn't that a win/win? It seems the gay lobby wants to enforce a 'make straight and gay 'marriage' equivalent, and shut the barn door behind us' issue. It's an intellectually dishonest argument.


Wow, you got stones to use the phrase " intellectually dishonest argument"! I can't figure out in your argument who is harmed if gays can be called "married" rather than "unionized" if all civil protections are granted? As for Yvonne's theoretical bakery, it's not a religious institution, and therefore falls under civil law. Would you seriously defend a baker who wouldn't sell to an interracial couple? It's no different. No one favors forcing priests to marry gays any more than forcing them to marry non-catholics. What do you really care then if religious institutions that don't hate gays marry them? How are you harmed? As far as I can tell, in the name of your freedom of religion you want to deny others theirs.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 21:47
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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CatDog wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
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CatDog wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God
Time for a brief history lesson. Neither of those phrases existed in either the pledge of allegiance or on any of our money or anything until the 50s, when McCarthy's fearmongering bullied Congress into adopting it to prove they weren't Godless communists.


OK, thanks for the history lesson-but the fact remains that our Founding Fathers worked from a Christian basis, with God as their moral compass. Marriage meant what it meant, and making it 'marriage' wasn't on their compass, not for same sex couples or polygamous families or any other 'grouping' that will now be 'allowed'.
Our founding fathers also enslaved people, so you know, they weren't infallible.


hey, at least Monroe admits they think the U.S. should be a theocracy. Many in the religious right mask their arguments for a theocratical U.S.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 20:55
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

CatDog wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God
Time for a brief history lesson. Neither of those phrases existed in either the pledge of allegiance or on any of our money or anything until the 50s, when McCarthy's fearmongering bullied Congress into adopting it to prove they weren't Godless communists.


OK, thanks for the history lesson-but the fact remains that our Founding Fathers worked from a Christian basis, with God as their moral compass. Marriage meant what it meant, and making it 'marriage' wasn't on their compass, not for same sex couples or polygamous families or any other 'grouping' that will now be 'allowed'.
Our founding fathers also enslaved people, so you know, they weren't infallible.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 20:22
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Posted on: 2013/10/21 16:57
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Our system of government was meant to be flexible.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

CatDog wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God
Time for a brief history lesson. Neither of those phrases existed in either the pledge of allegiance or on any of our money or anything until the 50s, when McCarthy's fearmongering bullied Congress into adopting it to prove they weren't Godless communists.


OK, thanks for the history lesson-but the fact remains that our Founding Fathers worked from a Christian basis, with God as their moral compass. Marriage meant what it meant, and making it 'marriage' wasn't on their compass, not for same sex couples or polygamous families or any other 'grouping' that will now be 'allowed'.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 16:28
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Christie withdraws appeal - solid!

Marriage equality is here to stay.

Best of luck to those who plan on denying equal access and services...

Posted on: 2013/10/21 15:59
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

CatDog wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God
Time for a brief history lesson. Neither of those phrases existed in either the pledge of allegiance or on any of our money or anything until the 50s, when McCarthy's fearmongering bullied Congress into adopting it to prove they weren't Godless communists.


OK, thanks for the history lesson-but the fact remains that our Founding Fathers worked from a Christian basis, with God as their moral compass. Marriage meant what it meant, and making it 'marriage' wasn't on their compass, not for same sex couples or polygamous families or any other 'grouping' that will now be 'allowed'.

The reality that remains is our Founding Fathers were of an entirely different time and culture, influenced by Calvinism, Puritanism, Deism, Freemasonry and science, and 17th and 18th Century political thinkers. Regardless, whatever the Founding Father's particular views, today's "Christians" should hardly claim them in defense of their view of the Constitution, which established the *people* as the Sovereign of the nation (anyone else regard that as anti-religious in its own right?). A few references to God hardly establish a Christian nature to the document. Thank you, God, for empowering brave gay and lesbian people, and those who support them, to stand up and do the right thing TODAY.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 15:55
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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CatDog wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God
Time for a brief history lesson. Neither of those phrases existed in either the pledge of allegiance or on any of our money or anything until the 50s, when McCarthy's fearmongering bullied Congress into adopting it to prove they weren't Godless communists.


OK, thanks for the history lesson-but the fact remains that our Founding Fathers worked from a Christian basis, with God as their moral compass. Marriage meant what it meant, and making it 'marriage' wasn't on their compass, not for same sex couples or polygamous families or any other 'grouping' that will now be 'allowed'.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 14:36
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God
Time for a brief history lesson. Neither of those phrases existed in either the pledge of allegiance or on any of our money or anything until the 50s, when McCarthy's fearmongering bullied Congress into adopting it to prove they weren't Godless communists.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 13:57
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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rescuelife wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
No surprise that our closeted Senator elect and JC mayor are out in front of this-why they aren't out in public is the question.


Booker I don't know, but this is very very funny if you actually knew Mayor Fulop in any personal capacity whatsoever.


I guess you're saying that he's openly gay to those around him, but hasn't come out to the voting public??
I think what he meant is that Fulop is always walking around with hot women in tow.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 13:54
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Good Day New York: Gay couple in Jersey City makes history
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David Gibson, Rich Kiamco, and Mayor Steve Fulop were in the studio this morning.

http://www.myfoxny.com/video?autoStar ... No=default&clipId=9436166


---------------------------------------------
Gay couple in Jersey City makes history

NEW YORK (MYFOXNY) -
As David and Rich climbed the stairs of City Hall, they were one step closer to being legally married. They've been waiting of this day for over a decade.

Now they're making history as the first gay couple with a marriage license in Jersey city.

Even the city clerk took in the moment.

"I'm gonna sign it and then you have to take a picture of me signing it" the clerk said.

Same-sex couples across New Jersey applied for the marriage license after the New Jersey Supreme Court ruled gay marriages must be allowed starting Monday.

While the Governor firmly believes that this determination should be made by all the people of the State of New Jersey, he has instructed the Department of Health to cooperate with all municipalities in effectuating the order of the Superior Court under the applicable law."

Couples say the ruling protects them.

Peter Connell from Jersey city said "We went in on a house together knowing that now we are protected and I want to make sure he's taken care of."

So far, Jersey City has had 20 couples apply.

People getting married for the first time will have to wait 72 hours after getting the license.

New Jersey residents who were married in other states and want their marriage recognized in New Jersey can begin getting married in the state on Monday.

David and Rich will be married inside council chambers and they're not wasting any time. Their ceremony will take place 12:01 Monday morning in Jersey City.


Read more: http://www.myfoxny.com/story/23737553 ... kes-history#ixzz2iMSR9IzX
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/23737553 ... jersey-city-makes-history


Posted on: 2013/10/21 13:05
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So why the apparent opposition of pro gay marriage proponents against, say, plural marriages? Why the 'close the barn door behind male/female traditional marriage, and homosexual marriage' but deny plural marriage? It seems very exclusive, no? Rather bigoted, no? Rather anti-civil rights, no?


1. How does 'apparent opposition' differ from opposition?

2. Can you provide references in gay or mainstream media where gay organizations or pro gay marriage proponents present their opposition to, say, plural marriages? Admittedly, gay marriage is not an issue that effects me directly except that more married couples settling in DTJC seems like a good thing for neighborhood stability. The only place I read about gay opposition to non-traditional marriages is in your posts. Again, I don't follow the issue as you 'apparently' do. I believe what you are doing is creating a strawman. If memory serves, the strawman was the one without a brain.


Posted on: 2013/10/21 11:29
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Jersey City hosts gay marriage ceremony for eight couples

By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal

Resized Image


Eight gay Jersey City couples took part in a gay marriage ceremony in City Hall just after midnight today, the minute New Jersey became the 14th station in the nation to legalize same-sex marriage.

Mayor Steve Fulop, a gay marriage advocate who officiated the nuptials, said he had been expecting four couples, but four more hopped in front of the council dais to, as one bride put it, "be a part of history."

The crowd of about 100 witnessing the ceremony erupted into an ovation when Fulop declared the eight couples married.



READ MORE

Posted on: 2013/10/21 5:30
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AlexC wrote:
Seriously - why would one think god cares about gays getting married? If god exists, (or any form thereof) god's gotta have the best freaking sense of humor in the whole universe.

god created gay people, no? so god must love and care about them just like everyone (if god does exist, of course)

how come those that believe have no sense of humor? hey listen if I was god, (and I can really imagine how it is to be a deity), i'll have so much f**king fun messing with those that take the sh*t literally, like you and Yvonne.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
This brief advertisement shows why people who hide their bigotry behind the guise of religion are on the wrong side of history.

And pretty soon will have no choice but to get with the program or steep in their own bitterness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ganRbr-WBiI


The intolerance of those who demand tolerance amuses rather than angers me.


Intolerant of bigotry, yes. Maybe one day you'll understand.

In the meantime your side has lost. Might as well just accept it.


Lost what? No gay marriages in my church.


So why the apparent opposition of pro gay marriage proponents against, say, plural marriages? Why the 'close the barn door behind male/female traditional marriage, and homosexual marriage' but deny plural marriage? It seems very exclusive, no? Rather bigoted, no? Rather anti-civil rights, no?

Posted on: 2013/10/21 3:12
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Seriously - why would one think god cares about gays getting married? If god exists, (or any form thereof) god's gotta have the best freaking sense of humor in the whole universe.

god created gay people, no? so god must love and care about them just like everyone (if god does exist, of course)

how come those that believe have no sense of humor? hey listen if I was god, (and I can really imagine how it is to be a deity), i'll have so much f**king fun messing with those that take the sh*t literally, like you and Yvonne.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
This brief advertisement shows why people who hide their bigotry behind the guise of religion are on the wrong side of history.

And pretty soon will have no choice but to get with the program or steep in their own bitterness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ganRbr-WBiI


The intolerance of those who demand tolerance amuses rather than angers me.


Intolerant of bigotry, yes. Maybe one day you'll understand.

In the meantime your side has lost. Might as well just accept it.


Lost what? No gay marriages in my church.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 1:40
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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You are absolutely right on that. Gay couples have plenty of options to get married elsewhere. Such as at City Hall tonight. Or in other churches. Rest assured that they are choosing carefully with the full support of their friends and families alike.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 0:33
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Monroe wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
This brief advertisement shows why people who hide their bigotry behind the guise of religion are on the wrong side of history.

And pretty soon will have no choice but to get with the program or steep in their own bitterness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ganRbr-WBiI


The intolerance of those who demand tolerance amuses rather than angers me.


Intolerant of bigotry, yes. Maybe one day you'll understand.

In the meantime your side has lost. Might as well just accept it.


Lost what? No gay marriages in my church.


Church sounds like fun! No...actually it sounds like the opposite of fun.

Posted on: 2013/10/21 0:25
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
This brief advertisement shows why people who hide their bigotry behind the guise of religion are on the wrong side of history.

And pretty soon will have no choice but to get with the program or steep in their own bitterness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ganRbr-WBiI


The intolerance of those who demand tolerance amuses rather than angers me.


Intolerant of bigotry, yes. Maybe one day you'll understand.

In the meantime your side has lost. Might as well just accept it.


Lost what? No gay marriages in my church.

Posted on: 2013/10/20 23:27
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
This brief advertisement shows why people who hide their bigotry behind the guise of religion are on the wrong side of history.

And pretty soon will have no choice but to get with the program or steep in their own bitterness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ganRbr-WBiI


The intolerance of those who demand tolerance amuses rather than angers me.


Intolerant of bigotry, yes. Maybe one day you'll understand.

In the meantime your side has lost. Might as well just accept it.

Posted on: 2013/10/20 22:40
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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we have no one to blame but these goddamned heterosexual couples who keep on making homosexual babies

Posted on: 2013/10/20 22:28
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Yvonne wrote:
Before I married my husband, we talked about our future children and who they might look like, I guess that is one conversation same sex couple will not have.


Well they can decide ahead of time before making a deposit with the surrogate mommy.

http://celebritybabies.people.com/201 ... s-son-elijah-first-photo/

Posted on: 2013/10/20 22:23
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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JCMan8 wrote:
This brief advertisement shows why people who hide their bigotry behind the guise of religion are on the wrong side of history.

And pretty soon will have no choice but to get with the program or steep in their own bitterness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ganRbr-WBiI


The intolerance of those who demand tolerance amuses rather than angers me.

Posted on: 2013/10/20 22:20
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Re: Gay marriage advocates lobby to override Christie's veto
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Monroe wrote:
In God We Trust
One Nation, Under God


Those were added in the 50s by conservatives.

Posted on: 2013/10/20 22:13
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