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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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I opened an inquiry with the Residents Response Center on this subject and received an acknowledgement. Then nothing. It has been almost a week. Useless.

Posted on: 2013/9/15 20:55
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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I was at the Freeholders meeting when Don Kenny spoke before the freeholders on JC reval. First, no mayor can cancel the reval once the county tells a city it can do it. JC already received a year delay. Don Kenny said 95% of the work has been completed. The only way a reval can be rejected is by the tax assessor based on poor quality work but the work has not been given to the tax assessor. Most likely, the firm will sue JC and the state attorney general will joint in the suit. If I live in Hoboken, I would urge Hoboken to sue JC since they pay 17% of the county tax bill based on a population of 50,000 while JC pays 31% based on a population of 250,000. Our ratable base is lower because abatements are not added to the ratable base, it is why Secaucus sued JC more than ten years ago . Fulop does not want to do a reval because he plans on giving 30 year abatements to Journal Square. Kushner, who helped McGreevey in his mayoral and governor bids owns a lot of Journal Square. Kushner son Jared also owns the NY Observer, a paper that give Fulop the positive press. People would be furious with 30 years abatements while their taxes are going up 3 times the due to revaluation. Bottom line, no mayor can stop a reval.

Posted on: 2013/9/15 20:02
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County still waiting to hear from city on reval

The Hudson County Board of Taxation has sent a letter to Jersey City inquiring what the status is of the city’s property revaluation, according to county spokesman Jim Kennelly. He said the county hopes to have a response by the next freeholders’ meeting, scheduled for Oct. 3.

“If there is no response from the city by then,” Kennelly said, “the Board of Taxation will consult with the assistant attorney general assigned to the state Division of Taxation about what steps to take next”

Mayor Steven Fulop directed the city to suspend the city’s reval – which was started in 2011 under his predecessor, Mayor Jerramiah T. Healy – shortly after he was elected to office. The reval was the first the city had done since 1988.

But the county is eager for Jersey City to see the process through. According to the city, real estate attorneys, and county officials, the average property owner in Jersey City is paying a tax rate that is less than 32 percent of the value of the property. Kennelly said the county typically likes to see a reval done whenever that number falls below 70 percent.

“That’s the standard,” Kennelly said.

Last month Fulop told the Reporter that his administration planned to file a petition with the Hudson County Board of Taxation asking that the reval be suspended. As of last week Kennelly said that petition had not been filed.


Read more: Hudson Reporter - JERSEY CITY BRIEFS

Posted on: 2013/9/15 18:42
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What happened to Fulop's Open and Honest goverment. Tell us what is happening. Is the Reval postponed or not. My taxes went up again after he was elected and the reval scares the hell out of me.

What is happening?

Posted on: 2013/9/9 11:52
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Posted on: 2013/8/23 16:39
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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with
1, the real estate price in dt jc at all time high
2, potential property tax reval

is it still a good time to buy non abated properties in dt jc?

Posted on: 2013/7/16 10:55
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dtjcview wrote:
Brewster - I wholeheartedly agree with your points on the inequity of the tax, but Steve has a fairly astute point. The last thing we want to do is to wipe hundreds of millions off peoples personal equity, and JC's overall wealth, in a rush to be fair.

I think everyone recognizes there is a large imbalance. If we simply value everything based on current state, we actually shift the imbalance the other way, if we don't account for the impact the changed taxes themselves have on valuations. Unlike taxes, property values are not a closed-end system nor a zero-sum game. If property prices plummet downtown, they may also plummet elsewhere in the city as people look outside of JC. The reval could trigger a self-inflicted "black swan" property market crash in JC if mismanaged.

Worth giving Steve and his admin a little time to produce an alternative proposal.


As far as I can tell, the reval should have no impact on SALES, since it's a zero sum game there. The accepted wisdom is if someone has a monthly budget, higher taxes mean they must pay a smaller mortgage on a less expensive property. For the buyer of a given property, it makes no difference if the taxes rise and the value falls, their expenses are the same. It's the SELLER that sees the loss, and THAT'S what this is about, protecting the current owners equity in the undertaxed properties, not protecting the market itself. The whole idea of it crashing the market is disproven by Hoboken's recent experience having to drastically raise taxes 80% to deal with a budget crisis. Hoboken experienced no RE crash, it's still insanely expensive.

There's no way out of this other than kicking the can down the road again, and as I've pointed out, that is favoring one class of JC property owner at the expense of others. The 15 year delayed reval is nothing more than deferred maintenance on our city, and like deferred maintenance, you can only fix it, or pass it along to the next owner, in this case next mayor. As has been done since Schundler should have done one in 1998.

The main problem is the reval isn't part of the law the way the 10 year Census is part of the US constitution. Could you imagine the games that would happen if the Census could be delayed by a party in power? Picture a Congressional District with 4x the population of another, but the same 1 vote: the citizens would be as disenfranchised as the overtaxed property owners of JC. But the Census is delay proof, and we are forced to deal with the pain of redistricting like tearing off a band-aid.

Posted on: 2013/7/15 12:58
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

Quote:
The argument against the reval: despite assurances by Mayor Jerramiah Healy (under whom the reval began, to the criticism of Fulop) that the city would see a proportional breakdown of tax rates going up, down, and staying about the same, Fulop said the truth was far more complicated.

The main problem he says is that when taxes go up–and they would go up downtown first, he says–property value “plummets.” This would have a “domino effect” throughout the city, he argues, maintaining that property value loss downtown would lead to property loss elsewhere.


What's absurd about that statement is the assumption the equation only runs one way. If prices drop Downtown because taxes rise, why shouldn't values RISE in the areas that see taxes decline? If a $300k house suddenly sees it's taxes drop from $10500 to $6600, that's $325/month free to pay on a mortgage, which could buy another $60k. So why do some people get their values protected and others have to suck it?


Brewster - I wholeheartedly agree with your points on the inequity of the tax, but Steve has a fairly astute point. The last thing we want to do is to wipe hundreds of millions off peoples personal equity, and JC's overall wealth, in a rush to be fair.

I think everyone recognizes there is a large imbalance. If we simply value everything based on current state, we actually shift the imbalance the other way, if we don't account for the impact the changed taxes themselves have on valuations. Unlike taxes, property values are not a closed-end system nor a zero-sum game. If property prices plummet downtown, they may also plummet elsewhere in the city as people look outside of JC. The reval could trigger a self-inflicted "black swan" property market crash in JC if mismanaged.

Worth giving Steve and his admin a little time to produce an alternative proposal.

Posted on: 2013/7/15 9:31
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Quote:
The argument against the reval: despite assurances by Mayor Jerramiah Healy (under whom the reval began, to the criticism of Fulop) that the city would see a proportional breakdown of tax rates going up, down, and staying about the same, Fulop said the truth was far more complicated.

The main problem he says is that when taxes go up–and they would go up downtown first, he says–property value “plummets.” This would have a “domino effect” throughout the city, he argues, maintaining that property value loss downtown would lead to property loss elsewhere.


What's absurd about that statement is the assumption the equation only runs one way. If prices drop Downtown because taxes rise, why shouldn't values RISE in the areas that see taxes decline? If a $300k house suddenly sees it's taxes drop from $10500 to $6600, that's $325/month free to pay on a mortgage, which could buy another $60k. So why do some people get their values protected and others have to suck it?

Posted on: 2013/7/14 23:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Posted on: 2013/7/14 15:57
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CatDog wrote:
And correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of people seem to be saying the reval was cancelled, but from what I understand, it's just been paused while his office audits the process.


The OP article had no indication of that being true. Please link if you have another source with more details.

Posted on: 2013/7/12 10:30
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holymoly wrote:
Mr Hamster ,

Mayor Fulop now raised taxes again nearly 8% despite he promised not to go this way.


Nope - that is not accurate. Mayor Fulop did not promise not to raise taxes. What he did say was that Healy was monkeying around with the budget/numbers in front of the election (just like Healy did before the last election).
yeah I'm pretty sure that during the entire last year he was saying that with out budget, taxes had to go up.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of people seem to be saying the reval was cancelled, but from what I understand, it's just been paused while his office audits the process.

Posted on: 2013/7/12 8:09
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Holy Moly seems an accurate moniker! What is it lately with these new posters? Is it age, education level or do they just completely lack command of the english language?

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holymoly wrote:
I THOUGHT THAT THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM ARE MORE DEDICATED TO THEIR CITY THAN OTHERS BUT I'M MISTAKEN AND REGRET THAT I EVER MADE ANY COMMENT ON THIS SIDE.
I THOUGHT I HAVE A REAL GOOD AND INDEPENDEND FORUM NOT COLORED BY ANY POLITICAL VIEW BUT IT TURNS OUT TO BE A LIE.

GOOD BYE AND HAVE BEAUTYFULL YEARS IN THIS CITY BUT PLEASE DON'T COMPLAIN AGAIN!!!

Posted on: 2013/7/12 7:34
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I THOUGHT THAT THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM ARE MORE DEDICATED TO THEIR CITY THAN OTHERS BUT I'M MISTAKEN AND REGRET THAT I EVER MADE ANY COMMENT ON THIS SIDE.
I THOUGHT I HAVE A REAL GOOD AND INDEPENDEND FORUM NOT COLORED BY ANY POLITICAL VIEW BUT IT TURNS OUT TO BE A LIE.

GOOD BYE AND HAVE BEAUTYFULL YEARS IN THIS CITY BUT PLEASE DON'T COMPLAIN AGAIN!!!

Posted on: 2013/7/11 23:52
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mr_hamster wrote:
Wow, this gave me a headache


Me too. Stream of consciousness writing of the barely conscious is always a problem. As is the idea that anyone should be able to not only benefit from tremendous asset appreciation, but not pay tax on it to boot. And not all people who bought 25 years ago did so well, it's mostly the ones who bought downtown.

My wife had a great idea that the city should make what's essentially a reverse mortgage available to anyone who can't pay their fair taxes. You get to pay the current assessment till you sell, and then the city takes what you owe from the proceeds, plus a nice healthy interest of course. The city could then balance it's budget by selling off a bond based on these future proceeds. The only people who can object to this is the "have the cake and eat it" crowd.


I agree with this, because I don't find it fair to pay cash for taxes on FMV appreciation of a non-liquid asset that isn't realizable for cash unless you sell, anyway.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 23:49
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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mr_hamster wrote:
Wow, this gave me a headache


Me too. Stream of consciousness writing of the barely conscious is always a problem. As is the idea that anyone should be able to not only benefit from tremendous asset appreciation, but not pay tax on it to boot. And not all people who bought 25 years ago did so well, it's mostly the ones who bought downtown.

My wife had a great idea that the city should make what's essentially a reverse mortgage available to anyone who can't pay their fair taxes. You get to pay the current assessment till you sell, and then the city takes what you owe from the proceeds, plus a nice healthy interest of course. The city could then balance it's budget by selling off a bond based on these future proceeds. The only people who can object to this is the "have the cake and eat it" crowd.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 23:31
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Mr Hamster ,

Mayor Fulop now raised taxes again nearly 8% despite he promised not to go this way.


Nope - that is not accurate. Mayor Fulop did not promise not to raise taxes. What he did say was that Healy was monkeying around with the budget/numbers in front of the election (just like Healy did before the last election).

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Nobody in Europe is as jealous as people here when somebody has more than them or they are more honest and courage to talk openly about it and don't use any excuse, that's my experience with Europe so far.


I am guessing that you must be joking and trying to pull our collective legs. Countries in Europe are circling the drain -- Spanish unemployment is around 27%, Portugal around 19%. If you don't think class warfare exists in Europe you must be blind. But, I think you are just trying to stir things up.

-M

Posted on: 2013/7/11 23:28
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Mr Hamster ,
you are right, nobody can judge the work that had been done by previous owners or people or citizens. It is just a question of what kind of law or rule or judgement or common sense we compare that dilemma we are in now.
Mayor Fulop now raised taxes again nearly 8% despite he promised not to go this way.
It is the government which sucks all the money and tell us it is necessary to keep us save and calm and of course to get us all to fight against each other so they can do what they want because we are involved in our daily struggle. Nothing more I wanted to say that the government will never be like we the people want them to be. So my attention is not to fight against each other, but to question decision made by our so to say leaders.
Nobody in Europe is as jealous as people here when somebody has more than them or they are more honest and courage to talk openly about it and don't use any excuse, that's my experience with Europe so far.

That's all I have to say now.


Posted on: 2013/7/11 23:08
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Wow, this gave me a headache and I had to log in and comment.

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These people worked hard to have their own houses . Now you are buying property in this city , what was called " Dirty City" and nobody really wanted to move to Jersey City in that time. Now it is a convenient place to be and much cheaper than NYC and YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EQUALITY???

But people who buy houses in more recent years could have worked hard too. How do you know? Who's to judge who worked harder? Why should this be a factor in taxes?

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The Market Value of a home is the probable price that a house will sell for if it is put on the market. It is determined by an analysis of the market (usually by a Realtor). The analysis should include looking at similar properties that have sold within recent times as well as looking at similar prices for homes currently on the market. In addition, if done properly, the analysis should also include those homes that were put on the market but did NOT sell, and were withdrawn.

I agree until the last sentence. Why should the analysis include homes put on the market but did not sell? That may be an indicator of too high price being asked.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 22:47
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who are you to judge me to apply fair share???
I do pay more than you ever could imagine !! So what are you accusing me for???

Have a nice sleep!!!

Posted on: 2013/7/11 22:34
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THANK YOU FOR CALLING ME A TROLL!! I LOVE THAT BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAID AND YOU DIDN'T COPY ALL OF MY WRITING CORRECTLY!!
SO DON'T FOUL AROUND !!!!!


Posted on: 2013/7/11 22:28
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holymoly wrote:
I don't understand why are you so angry about it. Of course
as I already wrote in another reply , I hate people who are jealous and envious about people who own a property longer than you could imagine and you all haven't even been planned to come to this earth. So these people who own a property longer than any youngster in this city has now to pay more than anybody who just bought a property or house?? This is not fair!!! Don't you know that after every sale taxes went up automatically and that is not a fault the old citizens , no , it happened because the sellers want to get the best price on the market and made a lot of renovation and improvement to the property that the taxes went up . So don't complain, it's still cheaper than NYC and you all know this. You all want to live in a nice surrounding but still want to pay less than others who worked more than you all ever did . These people helped to make "Dirty City" to be Jersey City as you know it now and as you love it sooo much.!


You are such a troll. To call people out on how hard they worked is absurd. My ancestors helped build this city. Not somebody who bought a brownstone for $25,000 in the late 70s. The reevaluation is mandated and will be done within the next five years. So suck it up and pay your fair share.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 22:10
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I don't understand why are you so angry about it. Of course
as I already wrote in another reply , I hate people who are jealous and envious about people who own a property longer than you could imagine and you all haven't even been planned to come to this earth. So these people who own a property longer than any youngster in this city has now to pay more than anybody who just bought a property or house?? This is not fair!!! Don't you know that after every sale taxes went up automatically and that is not a fault the old citizens , no , it happened because the sellers want to get the best price on the market and made a lot of renovation and improvement to the property that the taxes went up . So don't complain, it's still cheaper than NYC and you all know this. You all want to live in a nice surrounding but still want to pay less than others who worked more than you all ever did . These people helped to make "Dirty City" to be Jersey City as you know it now and as you love it sooo much, so please ,there must be common sense about this topic.
Read this:

Depending who you are talking to about the price of a house you have to be clear what numbers you are using. If you’re not both referring to the same lingo, you could each walk away from the conversation thinking different things and not knowing it. Here are some definitions that may be helpful.

The Appraised Value of a property is an opinion of the value of a home prepared by an Appraiser. His opinion is based on a number of factors or methods of determining the value. He will look at things such as recent sales of similar properties, replacement cost and his own knowledge of the local marketplace. Lending institutions will typically use the appraised value in determining the total amount of money they are willing to lend when the property buyer is applying for a mortgage.
The Assessed Value of a home is the value determined by the tax assessor for the local city or town. This value is used by the municipality to determine the amount of tax that the property owner must pay. The Assessed value will often be multiplied by a mil (Millage) rate to determine the actual tax. In other words if the property has an assessed value of $100,000.00 and the mil rate is 5, the tax on the property would be 5 X 100 or $500.
The Market Value of a home is the probable price that a house will sell for if it is put on the market. It is determined by an analysis of the market (usually by a Realtor). The analysis should include looking at similar properties that have sold within recent times as well as looking at similar prices for homes currently on the market. In addition, if done properly, the analysis should also include those homes that were put on the market but did NOT sell, and were withdrawn.
The List Price of a home is a number assigned by the seller when he puts his home on the market. It is essentially what he hopes to sell his property before. It has no formal mathematical relationship to the actual market value of the home. In determining the list price, any reputable Realtor will recommend that it be very close to the Market Value if the seller wishes to sell in a timely fashion.
The sale price of a home is the actual price that the home most recently sold for.

Sleep well!

Posted on: 2013/7/11 21:54
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What are you all talking about?
I don't care about any mayor or government cause they are all the same.
I hate people who are jealous and envious towards others who have a property for 30 years more like old people who are citizens when you all haven't even planned to come to earth. These people worked hard to have their own houses . Now you are buying property in this city , what was called " Dirty City" and nobody really wanted to move to Jersey City in that time. Now it is a convenient place to be and much cheaper than NYC and YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT EQUALITY???
Read this :
What is the difference between tax assessed value and market value? This is one of those issues that confuse many buyers and sellers. Tax assessed value and market value are not the same. The tax value can be lower or higher than the market value. If the tax assessed value is higher than the suggested list price, a seller might reference it to support why he feels his house is worth more. If the tax assessed value is lower than the list price, a buyer might reference it to support why he feels the house is worth less. Neither would be correct.

The true value of a property is determined by its market value. Market value is the highest price likely to be paid for a property, assuming that the property was available to all potential buyers at a realistic price or a reasonable length of time. Additionally, neither buyer nor seller was prevented from learning all of the facts about the property and its place in the market. Tax assessed value is determined by most counties using some complicated math formula that re-appraises all the properties in the county at one time. Moreover, there is inconsistency among properties assessed by the tax assessor because many homeowners protest their taxes in the Spring to keep their taxes low. In those cases this result in a different value being placed on their properties and that of their neighbors with similar homes.

The most common approach to property value is Market Analysis or Comparable Approach. Both determine prices paid for similar properties in the neighborhood by analyzing recently sold properties. Recently sold is any property closed preferably within the last six months in the same neighborhood, typically within 1/4 to 1/2 mile from the subject property. The Tax assessor's office doesn't have access to comparable sales that are MLS(Multiple Listing Service) to determine your property's true market value. Therefore, the tax assessed value should never be assumed to mean market value.


Have a nice day

Posted on: 2013/7/11 21:20
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Yvonne wrote:
I did not write this material, it is available at the Tax Board in Hudson County. You don't like what the information says, so you attack the writer. Personally, it doesn't bother me. However, if I live in Hoboken, I would be bother. Because JC excludes its tax abated properties from the ratable base, Hoboken, which as a population of 50,000 residents pays a higher portion of the County's tax bill. It pays 17.72% this year. JC with a population of 250,000 pays 31.96% We also pay almost double but our population that 5 times greater. If I were a Hoboken resident I would urge Dawn Zimmer to sue JC, because too many tax abated properties are sheltered from the ratable base.


Not that bad a point, but abatements really do have nothing at all to do with the reval. The reval is about fairness among the properties in the ratable base, not about the overall tax picture. By continually bringing it up all you do is muddy the waters, which I presume is the point.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 19:46
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I did not write this material, it is available at the Tax Board in Hudson County. You don't like what the information says, so you attack the writer. Personally, it doesn't bother me. However, if I live in Hoboken, I would be bother. Because JC excludes its tax abated properties from the ratable base, Hoboken, which as a population of 50,000 residents pays a higher portion of the County's tax bill. It pays 17.72% this year. JC with a population of 250,000 pays 31.96% We also pay almost double but our population that 5 times greater. If I were a Hoboken resident I would urge Dawn Zimmer to sue JC, because too many tax abated properties are sheltered from the ratable base.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 18:07
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Just read an article about Newark lowering taxes due in part to the completion of the reevaluation. Their was a shift from residential to commercial. Article can be found on NJ.com.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 16:29
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Not to mention that people in Crystal Point are eating, drinking, parking, buying all here in JC...and few if any are sending their kids to JC public schools or otherwise sapping the city.

Not to mention that many people with PILOT are actually paying a HIGHER rate than people without it for the same priced property.

Posted on: 2013/7/11 16:17
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
This information comes from the 2012 Abstract of Ratable - County of Hudson. It is used to strike JC budget. Jersey City is now worth $5.8 billion (it was close to $7 billion after the 1988 reval). $4.7 billion is exempted from taxes. From that figure $2.7 billion are tax abated properties, the rest are churches, public properties, schools, and cemeteries. Excluding churches, schools, etc., approximately one - fourth of the city is tax abated. The lower the ratable base the higher the tax rate. Abatements erodes the ratable base causing a higher tax base.


Here you go again with the ratables. Which do you think benefits the city budget more: An empty lot counted as a "ratable" generating perhaps a few thousand dollars a year in tax revenue, or a high-rise like Crystal Point sitting in that lot making north of $1.5 million a year in payments in lieu of tax (and that's a conservative back-of-the-envelope estimate)? And the city doesn't have to share any of the PILOT revenue with the county. It gets to keep and spend the whole pie. Yet with all that influx of PILOT money the past 10 years, the city still managed to outspend itself. WTF were they spending it on? That's the question no one seems to be asking.

Posted on: 2013/7/8 23:26
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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You continue to recite this as though there were no PILOT cashflow to the city. But there is. They may not be ratables but PILOT's are a significant chunk of the budget pool. For most JC property owners, abatements aren't the problem, underpaying Downtown properties like the one you owned driving up the rate is. Had you paid your fair share, 3 or even 4 owners of more modest homes would have seen their taxes drop to their fair share.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
This information comes from the 2012 Abstract of Ratable - County of Hudson. It is used to strike JC budget. Jersey City is now worth $5.8 billion (it was close to $7 billion after the 1988 reval). $4.7 billion is exempted from taxes. From that figure $2.7 billion are tax abated properties, the rest are churches, public properties, schools, and cemeteries. Excluding churches, schools, etc., approximately one - fourth of the city is tax abated. The lower the ratable base the higher the tax rate. Abatements erodes the ratable base causing a higher tax base.

Posted on: 2013/7/8 22:49
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