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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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brosjch wrote:
With Hoboken and low lying parts of JC seeing such flooding, I've been wondering what will the effect be on Heights real estate? Mostly Hoboken really, kinda refreshing to see the wind taken out of their bloated $property value$ sails.

Any thoughts? Will Heights see a boom...being 100 ft above sea level and all? The global warming 'alarmists' will be trumpeting Sandy as "things to come", so who will benefit?

Please, only thought-out responses. No silliness because you're butt-hurt over my tone or content.



DT JC and lower Manhattan are at or slightly above sea level if these areas are in danger of being flooded permanently this will have a negative impact on JC Heights. Flooding would cause the loss of important infrastructure such as the PATH system and the Holland tunnel and probably the Lincoln tunnel. This would also destroy much of the subway system and buildings in lower Manhattan. All the jobs that the local economy depends on would probably move far away.

Really good point.

Posted on: 2013/1/7 1:28
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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JCCheerleader wrote:
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Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?


White flight out of downtown in the late 80's? News to me. By then "rich people" were busy buying row houses as soon as they came on the market, usually owner-occupied row houses, in my experience. Not sure of the dates, but it was about that time that the nabes were put on the National Register. At worst, dtjc was a commercially under-serviced inner city neighborhood with excellent transportation to high-paying jobs and with a very desirable housing stock.

My neighbor couldn't get anyone to pay $25K for a Brownstone down there in the eighties. My ex wouldn't move there in the 90's because he thought it was a dump.
So what does 'inner-city' really mean? Is it related to an 'outer-city'?


What's the address of this house - I'd like to walk by.

No idea, we're not neighbors anymore.

Posted on: 2013/1/7 1:24
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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JCCheerleader wrote:
Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?


White flight out of downtown in the late 80's? News to me. By then "rich people" were busy buying row houses as soon as they came on the market, usually owner-occupied row houses, in my experience. Not sure of the dates, but it was about that time that the nabes were put on the National Register. At worst, dtjc was a commercially under-serviced inner city neighborhood with excellent transportation to high-paying jobs and with a very desirable housing stock.

My neighbor couldn't get anyone to pay $25K for a Brownstone down there in the eighties. My ex wouldn't move there in the 90's because he thought it was a dump.
So what does 'inner-city' really mean? Is it related to an 'outer-city'?


What's the address of this house - I'd like to walk by.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 18:20
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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brosjch wrote:
With Hoboken and low lying parts of JC seeing such flooding, I've been wondering what will the effect be on Heights real estate? Mostly Hoboken really, kinda refreshing to see the wind taken out of their bloated $property value$ sails.

Any thoughts? Will Heights see a boom...being 100 ft above sea level and all? The global warming 'alarmists' will be trumpeting Sandy as "things to come", so who will benefit?

Please, only thought-out responses. No silliness because you're butt-hurt over my tone or content.



DT JC and lower Manhattan are at or slightly above sea level if these areas are in danger of being flooded permanently this will have a negative impact on JC Heights. Flooding would cause the loss of important infrastructure such as the PATH system and the Holland tunnel and probably the Lincoln tunnel. This would also destroy much of the subway system and buildings in lower Manhattan. All the jobs that the local economy depends on would probably move far away.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 16:43
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?


White flight out of downtown in the late 80's? News to me. By then "rich people" were busy buying row houses as soon as they came on the market, usually owner-occupied row houses, in my experience. Not sure of the dates, but it was about that time that the nabes were put on the National Register. At worst, dtjc was a commercially under-serviced inner city neighborhood with excellent transportation to high-paying jobs and with a very desirable housing stock.

My neighbor couldn't get anyone to pay $25K for a Brownstone down there in the eighties. My ex wouldn't move there in the 90's because he thought it was a dump.
So what does 'inner-city' really mean? Is it related to an 'outer-city'?

Posted on: 2013/1/5 14:34
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Willie- Let's keep this to ourselves and let the naysayers say what they will. Actually, I used to be a Heights-basher but I've seen the light, especially after Sandy and I was forced to take the jitneys to Manhattan via Union City.

I friend had to take the NJ transit bus from Port Authority and it took a shocking 15 minutes around 6pm

Welcome to the light.. As far as supermarkets Willie all of JC supermarkets suck a##!


C-Town in Bergen Square is excellent. They have a massive amount of food choices packed into a small store. They'll also carry your packages hoem with you, no charge. The manager is friendly, says hello all the time, and is really on top of what goes on. It's like a big Mom and Pop store. I love it!

Posted on: 2013/1/5 14:07

Edited by JCCheerleader on 2013/1/5 14:31:46
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?


White flight out of downtown in the late 80's? News to me. By then "rich people" were busy buying row houses as soon as they came on the market, usually owner-occupied row houses, in my experience. Not sure of the dates, but it was about that time that the nabes were put on the National Register. At worst, dtjc was a commercially under-serviced inner city neighborhood with excellent transportation to high-paying jobs and with a very desirable housing stock.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 13:24
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And now Fresh Direct delivers to the Heights. A GREAT option.

Oh great thats just what we need another truck motor constantly reving it's engine early in the morning.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 3:19
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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trust me there are plenty of people moving from Manhattan, Brooklyn, Hoboken and downtown j,c to the heights


Very true. Why would anyone ever want to live in NYC when all the businesses, world class restaurants, hotels, clubs, museums, and broadway are in the heights! oh wait...none of that are in the heights...

Yes artists are moving to the heights...rofl. Cause you know, artists are millionaires that will bring the wealth to your part of town. I kid, I kid, artists are great, just visit the empty, wordndown lots of the powerhouse arts district to see how artists revitalized that area.


You really seem to have no concept of economics. There's something we call "money" and not everyone has unlimited amounts of it. People usually leave NYC, including me, not because they don't like it but because they can't afford it! And some people make the choice after that to buy a single family with a yard in the Heights rather than a 1 bedroom in Downtown or Hoboken for the same budget.

Do you REALLY also not understand the cycle of the wealthy pouring into areas the impoverished artists pioneer in search of affordable space and make hip? SOHO, Alphabet City, TriBeCa, Williamsburg, DUMBO, Hoboken, DTJC. What planet are you from? I was attending SVA art school parties in Hoboken in 1982. I was working with a musician and model maker who had several years earlier went in with a couple of buddies and bought a loft building there for $40k. Certainly there were guys like you who mocked them throwing their money away!


Oh, I agree about the affordability. Prior posts made it seem like people were moving to the heights for other reasons besides not being able to afford to live somewhere else. because you know, the heights offers something unique...

as for the artists, I stand by what I said. why were the artists pioneers? They were in those areas before the rich came in and started to bring in business and development. Why not call homeless people pioneers? Thank the professionals themselves for moving into Hoboken, Newport, DTJC, not the artists...that makes no sense.

Good point vindication15. Why are the artists called pioneers when it's really the rich who have driven up the prices downtown because they will pay higher and higher prices. And what about the poor people who stayed Downtown after the white flight of the late 80's and the place was like a slum. Are they pioneers?

Posted on: 2013/1/5 2:17
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And now Fresh Direct delivers to the Heights. A GREAT option.

Posted on: 2013/1/3 22:59
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.. As far as supermarkets Willie all of JC supermarkets suck a##!


Downtown we have a Keyfood that has really become terrific, in my opinion. It's not worth driving to, but it and soap.com (or similar website) for cleaning supplies, etc. have really eased shopping without compromising. Also, WF Tribeca is less than 15 minutes away. Shoprite - which truly sucks a## is no longer relevent, I think.

Posted on: 2013/1/3 22:53
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Don't knock it till you try it !

Posted on: 2013/1/3 22:42
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Willie- Let's keep this to ourselves and let the naysayers say what they will. Actually, I used to be a Heights-basher but I've seen the light, especially after Sandy and I was forced to take the jitneys to Manhattan via Union City.

I friend had to take the NJ transit bus from Port Authority and it took a shocking 15 minutes around 6pm

Welcome to the light.. As far as supermarkets Willie all of JC supermarkets suck a##!

Posted on: 2013/1/3 20:40
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Willie- Let's keep this to ourselves and let the naysayers say what they will. Actually, I used to be a Heights-basher but I've seen the light, especially after Sandy and I was forced to take the jitneys to Manhattan via Union City.

I friend had to take the NJ transit bus from Port Authority and it took a shocking 15 minutes around 6pm

Posted on: 2013/1/3 20:37
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Once the PATH is fully back in action it wont be that bad. As others have mentioned the Hoboken PATH station is a solid option late night, so is Journal Square. The cost of a cabs is still far cheaper than your rent would be anywhere in Manhattan and most parts of inner Brooklyn or Queens.

If you hate the Heights so much go back to New York. We have delicious inexpensive restaurants and some of the best pizzerias, chinese restaurants and delis in the the city. Sure, we could use a better grocery store (especially since the Hoboken Shoprite got destroyed by Sandy), but that will come with time.

Our neighborhood is no more a slum than lots of places in NYC proper. The only difference is transit and its not as bad as you all seem to think it is. In Chicago it took more than two hours to go halfway across the city. From the Heights I can be in Fort Greene, Long Island City, The Upper West Side or Alphabet City in less than that and I don't have to pay Manhattan rents. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

Posted on: 2013/1/3 20:19
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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The problem with heights, JSQ and most areas of JC is the density. Density is only good if you have good mass transit options, otherwise it creates a mess because of all the cars on the road. I wish there was a way to reverse the reckless overdevelopment done in this entire state during the past century.

Posted on: 2013/1/3 14:11
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If you live in a downtown bubble, you have no idea how to get out of JC besides the Path. Those of us who live outside the Path system have many, many, options of getting into NYC. There are 3 buses they go into NYC from here...

Not if you live in the Heights!!! It's either the PATH, of NJ Transit to/from the Port Authority.

Tonight, I went to take the 12:15 #123 bus to Christ Hospital, which filled up by the time 1/2 the people lined up could get on. The driver, "Carlos", helpfully told us to wait for the next (1:45am) bus... God bless you if you live in other neighborhoods. I am SO DAM@ED SORRY I moved to the Heights. It is a slum, will remain a slum, with substandard transportation to the bigger world, nothing to do, nowhere to shop except for 99 cent stores, filthy streets, a Neanderthal of a Ward Councilperson (Goughan). If Sandy has shown us anything it is that you should SPEND THE MONEY TO LIVE SOMEPLACE CIVILIZED, and not move someplace hoping for better...


wow. You made me speechless lol

Posted on: 2012/12/10 2:57
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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kitten wrote:... what else could you want?

That someone would have slapped me upside the head 4 years ago when I stated I was moving to Jersey City Heights? LOL, wistful thinking.

But to your point, Kitten, about this being "post Sandy" - this thread started with someone wondering if property values in the Heights would increase once everyone saw the "advantages" of living here, as opposed to downtown JC or Hoboken. I stand by my comments - Sandy has revealed the depth of the incompetency, lack of planning, lack of forward thinking, etc., of so many levels of the government and within the infrastructure management that connects the Heights to the regional economic/cultural engine. The Heights is just to feebly connected to NYC to ever benefit from people's thinking about the impact of this storm.

Posted on: 2012/12/10 1:59
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If you live in a downtown bubble, you have no idea how to get out of JC besides the Path. Those of us who live outside the Path system have many, many, options of getting into NYC. There are 3 buses they go into NYC from here...

Not if you live in the Heights!!! It's either the PATH, of NJ Transit to/from the Port Authority.

Tonight, I went to take the 12:15 #123 bus to Christ Hospital, which filled up by the time 1/2 the people lined up could get on. The driver, "Carlos", helpfully told us to wait for the next (1:45am) bus... God bless you if you live in other neighborhoods. I am SO DAM@ED SORRY I moved to the Heights. It is a slum, will remain a slum, with substandard transportation to the bigger world, nothing to do, nowhere to shop except for 99 cent stores, filthy streets, a Neanderthal of a Ward Councilperson (Goughan). If Sandy has shown us anything it is that you should SPEND THE MONEY TO LIVE SOMEPLACE CIVILIZED, and not move someplace hoping for better...


Hold up. This is absolutely a post-Sandy issue. Before the storm, late night, you could have taken PATH to Hoboken and then an 8 dollar cab ride home NO PROBLEM. I took the PATH last night to Grove at 10pm and then a it was a $7 cab ride home. Took 5 minutes for me to get a cab.

If you are commuting to and from work there are jitneys and buses during rush hours. YES, late night it's harder to get home but when I lived in Queens I had the same problem.

As far as shopping goes, that's what NYC and the internet is for. What do you want to buy? We have places on Central Avenue for good bread, cheese, and wine... what else could you want?

Posted on: 2012/12/8 12:33
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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If you live in a downtown bubble, you have no idea how to get out of JC besides the Path. Those of us who live outside the Path system have many, many, options of getting into NYC. There are 3 buses they go into NYC from here...

Not if you live in the Heights!!! It's either the PATH, of NJ Transit to/from the Port Authority.

Tonight, I went to take the 12:15 #123 bus to Christ Hospital, which filled up by the time 1/2 the people lined up could get on. The driver, "Carlos", helpfully told us to wait for the next (1:45am) bus... God bless you if you live in other neighborhoods. I am SO DAM@ED SORRY I moved to the Heights. It is a slum, will remain a slum, with substandard transportation to the bigger world, nothing to do, nowhere to shop except for 99 cent stores, filthy streets, a Neanderthal of a Ward Councilperson (Goughan). If Sandy has shown us anything it is that you should SPEND THE MONEY TO LIVE SOMEPLACE CIVILIZED, and not move someplace hoping for better...

Posted on: 2012/12/8 6:31
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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I would be fascinated to see a poll on how Manhattan bound Heights residents get there (pre-Sandy): by PATH or via a Lincoln tunnel bus. It sure sounds like large numbers take the tunnel route.


If you live in a downtown bubble, you have no idea how to get out of JC besides the Path. Those of us who live outside the Path system have many, many, options of getting into NYC. There are 3 buses they go into NYC from here, or I can take the light rail and connect to the Path, or take the light rail to connect to NJ transit trains to NYC. or take a jitney, or take the ferry. Since I left downtown, I don't miss the cramped crowded Path. I ride it only when I have to.

Posted on: 2012/12/7 16:11
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I think those jitney vans would explode to fill the gap if late nite service halt by PATH was permanent.

I can support giving special groups, like teachers or firepeople or police, special incentives to live in troubled areas. Everyone is obviously have their own opninion - no right or wrong answer

Posted on: 2012/12/7 0:55
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PATH is in full meltdown mode, with no end in sight, and getting in and out of Manhattan is going to be torture for the forseeable future. If this is the result of Sandy, I see NO future for the Heights other than to remain where it is, until mass transit in and out of NYC is improved drastically.


I would be fascinated to see a poll on how Manhattan bound Heights residents get there (pre-Sandy): by PATH or via a Lincoln tunnel bus. It sure sounds like large numbers take the tunnel route.


Posted on: 2012/12/6 22:53
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I generally like the Heights, but without 24 hour transportation I just don't think it will ever fully take off. I wish they could extend the Hoboken Path line to terminate in the Heights, but I was told on here (by Ian I think) that it is impossible to do so.

I think JSQ will take off before the Heights. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't already, looking at how far out gentrification is occuring EAST of the city in some pretty distant neighborhoods in Brooklyn.


Here's why, an excerpt from another site, the poster lives in Manhattan:

Quote:
He: Dream House? A 900 Sqft apart ( Maybe 1200 if I'm Feeling wasteful ) less than 3 Minute bike ride from where I keep The sailboat. Walk to all Shopping, Stores, & work less than 1 mile from home. right now I live 3 Miles from work and The commute is harsh.

Me: You work in lower Manhattan right? Move here to Downtown Jersey City and you'd be very close to your ideal. Reasonable apartments, nearby marinas and an easy commute to WTC. I have a neighbor who spends her summers on her sloop at Liberty Marina. There's ferries from there to WFC.

He: Move off the island ? horrors


People would rather live in the ass end of Brooklyn and pay 3x the price than "leave NYC".

The chatter on the PATH from JSQ to WTC this morning was along the lines of "if I'm stuck with an hour commute I would rather live (fill in the blank, someplace nice...)" OK, IF you go ONLY into midtown va bus or van, you are probably OK staying in the Heights. But the reason the"ass end" of Brooklyn prospers over other places is that alternative neighborhoods rise or fall based on the availibility of multi-modal transporation in and out of Manhattan. JC, like Hoboken, is never going to be a stand-alone city in the same way as other smaller cities, owing to NYC being th ecenter of gravity. PATH is in full meltdown mode, with no end in sight, and getting in and out of Manhattan is going to be torture for the forseeable future. If this is the result of Sandy, I see NO future for the Heights other than to remain where it is, until mass transit in and out of NYC is improved drastically.

Posted on: 2012/12/6 18:36
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Yes, rich people don't just move to certain areas. But even rich people get priced out of certain areas and move out to the next neighborhood. They certainly don't ask their realtor, "hey, do artists live here?" Comical.


I think they ask if artists and gays live in the area because it is an excellent social indicator of an area's potential for increasing in value. I think it was in the Antonionni movie Blowup (1966) where there is a scene of David Hemmings (?) driving around London looking for areas to invest in based on the presence of homosexuals.

Posted on: 2012/12/4 15:07
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Residents should seek an abatement from cityhall - Doesn't hurt to ask if you have a realtor's report suggesting the property / neighborhood has a decreased value post Sandy.

Posted on: 2012/12/4 11:52
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Rich people don't want to live in depressed areas because they have options - due to intelligence, common sense, family history, smart decisions, etc however they got there.

Many artists don't have these same options so they are limited in their living choices. Maybe it's not strictly a cause and effect relationship, but do you think SOHO / Lower East / Village would have ended up the same way if the city had just offered doctors / lawyers / business people incentives to move there ?

No chance. They waited until the artists made the areas nice and then moved there.


Explain "....artists made the areas nice"

Did they forcefully kick the homeless out of blighted areas? Did they all partake in a community program which picked up trash every weekend? Did they pay more in taxes? Did they do government jobs while also being artists? Did they patrol the streets when they were not artists?

You ask me what would have happened in SOHO, Lower east, etc if artists hadn't moved there. I have no clue. Would you have gotten the same result if lawyers moved there first? I don't know.

I am not for giving any group, whether it be artists, monks, police officers, etc any incentives for moving into a neighborhood. It's unfair, period.

You know of the glamorous stories of artists supposedly "revitalizing" a neighborhood. I know of the powerhouse "arts district" where artists lived for FREE in those buildings occupying them until they were kicked the hell out of there and now there are proposals saying there should be "affordable" (ie below market value) units given to those artists. It would be insane if not so comical. My govt thinks I will be more accepting of those who make less money than me if they got what I paid for at half off...it's quite hilarious.

I know that mural on Columbus Street does NOTHING to improve downtown jc. Did grove plaza develop because developers saw that mural and suddenly became interested in JC? Laughable.

Did those luxury brands in soho come to that area because artists lived there? Stretch of the imagination.

Yes, rich people don't just move to certain areas. But even rich people get priced out of certain areas and move out to the next neighborhood. They certainly don't ask their realtor, "hey, do artists live here?" Comical.

Look, there's no point in convincing you. It's just like brewster. Whatever data I pull off of zillow, he will keep thinking there's more value in the heights than downtown jc - even redefining the word value for people.

You think artists revitalize an area and we should attract artists to all these blighted areas. Good for you.

Posted on: 2012/12/4 6:48
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Rich people don't want to live in depressed areas because they have options - due to intelligence, common sense, family history, smart decisions, etc however they got there.

Many artists don't have these same options so they are limited in their living choices. Maybe it's not strictly a cause and effect relationship, but do you think SOHO / Lower East / Village would have ended up the same way if the city had just offered doctors / lawyers / business people incentives to move there ?

No chance. They waited until the artists made the areas nice and then moved there.

Posted on: 2012/12/4 1:27
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
Quote:

thor800 wrote:
V15 - you disagree that artists revitalize blighted areas ?

Do you have any research to back that up ? My point was that lawyers and doctors don't move into shitty areas and clean them up; thus resulting in real estate value increases. Young professionals the same. They are a lagging indicator.

http://realestate.msn.com/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=27746032#1



There is nothing special about artists that revitalize an area. I am aware of the "research" that shows artists once inhabited areas that were undesirable that are now desirable. My argument is that just because artists were there before, it's not a cause and effect relationship. Why not contribute the revitalization to the drop of crime in that area or the exodus of homeless people out of the area?


Even if it was due to the artists, what research shows that doctors or money managers, when given economic incentives, don't also bring about the same revitalization? One could argue they have more money to eat out and contribute to the local economy right?

It's a principle of fairness. Artists don't deserve special treatment. I rather have a doctor in my neighborhood than an artist any day of the week and twice on sundays.


Have you played a lot of football or been blown up by an IED? There must be some explanation as to why your brain seems unable to function, and comprehend why rich people don't need to seek out cheap workspace in blighted areas.


If I was injured by an IED, that would be a pretty insensitive remark.

Yes, rich people, when given ECONOMIC INCENTIVES like the ones many have proposed be given to artists, will not take advantage of them. It's the reason why there are no primary care physicians in the NHSC and the reason why we have no public interest lawyers enrolled in special programs that pay their law school debt.

I understand your hatred of rich people (jealousy) but do you think they got rich because they made bad financial decisions?

If you set aside 20 "affordable housing" units to physicians, do you think no physicians would buy them? Are you kidding me?


Posted on: 2012/12/3 21:49
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Re: Property values in the Heights (post Sandy)
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Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
Quote:

thor800 wrote:
V15 - you disagree that artists revitalize blighted areas ?

Do you have any research to back that up ? My point was that lawyers and doctors don't move into shitty areas and clean them up; thus resulting in real estate value increases. Young professionals the same. They are a lagging indicator.

http://realestate.msn.com/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=27746032#1



There is nothing special about artists that revitalize an area. I am aware of the "research" that shows artists once inhabited areas that were undesirable that are now desirable. My argument is that just because artists were there before, it's not a cause and effect relationship. Why not contribute the revitalization to the drop of crime in that area or the exodus of homeless people out of the area?


Even if it was due to the artists, what research shows that doctors or money managers, when given economic incentives, don't also bring about the same revitalization? One could argue they have more money to eat out and contribute to the local economy right?

It's a principle of fairness. Artists don't deserve special treatment. I rather have a doctor in my neighborhood than an artist any day of the week and twice on sundays.


Have you played a lot of football or been blown up by an IED? There must be some explanation as to why your brain seems unable to function, and comprehend why rich people don't need to seek out cheap workspace in blighted areas.

Posted on: 2012/12/3 21:28
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