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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
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Vigilante wrote:
Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


There wouldn't be a development if there wasn't the expectation that it could be sold or rented. If it will be built, then it can be sold.

If a development of this size can be built with the expectation of being sold, it is only because there is already demand for that product.

The same people complaining that this is too big and out of scale will be complaining that rents are becoming unaffordable. Well yes, that's what happens when demand outstrips supply and you don't build more supply.


Many buildings that were built to sell failed and ended up renting to the endless supply of Indians and other Asians who are willing to split a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment amongst four, five or more people. The expected influx of said number of people ends up doubling and tripling. Sometimes it's even worse.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 29740914961260.xml&coll=3


210 Pavonia Ave, which is one of the raided homes, is a one family home Downtown. The Milburn couple that owns it paid $240,000 for it in 1990.
354 Wayne St. is a large two family home. The couple that owns it paid $89,900 for it in 1981.
Are you trying to say that what these two couples did was because they couldn't make any money renting or selling their homes legitimately? Really?


Not sure if you are asking me but obviously the buildings were vastly overcrowded. I am sure that like many landlords the people may have thought they were renting legitimately but then you would have to ask them. My first landlord lived in North Carolina. We could have had 20 people living in our place and they would never have known. And many out of town landlords NEVER check on their properties.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 20:22
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.


Nah, this has nothing to do with emotions and it's not rocket science. Add 1000 people to the neighborhood and you're going to get more traffic. And I haven't been talking about the towers going in on the PATH side, I'm talking about the tower going in on the East side of Summit Ave.
As my very smart husband says, if he was working in one of those buildings while he was living in Fort Lee, he'd have no choice but to drive to the building because there is no transportation from Fort Lee to Journal Square.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 20:20
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Wrong again. The building on Pavonia is actually quite nice and is a modern rowhouse. I didn't buy it myself because it lacked outdoor space and was too close to Cordero School for my tastes. The fact that it's a nice building and a nice area is precisely why the shenanigans going on there were so obvious to the neighbors who called the authorities. "Tenement" that is funny.

They are tenements whats so funny about it ? Downtown J.C. is getting more like Hoboken everyday at least with all the apartment buildings. Why don't they build some one and two family homes where the owner would live there ? Most of these apartments are not even condos but rentals and if they are condos they are being rented out. Co-ops would be a better way to go.


Tenements Huh? Sorry but you don't know what you are talking about.

Resized ImageResized Image

Posted on: 2013/1/6 20:11
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:
Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


There wouldn't be a development if there wasn't the expectation that it could be sold or rented. If it will be built, then it can be sold.

If a development of this size can be built with the expectation of being sold, it is only because there is already demand for that product.

The same people complaining that this is too big and out of scale will be complaining that rents are becoming unaffordable. Well yes, that's what happens when demand outstrips supply and you don't build more supply.


Many buildings that were built to sell failed and ended up renting to the endless supply of Indians and other Asians who are willing to split a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment amongst four, five or more people. The expected influx of said number of people ends up doubling and tripling. Sometimes it's even worse.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 29740914961260.xml&coll=3


210 Pavonia Ave, which is one of the raided homes, is a one family home Downtown. The Milburn couple that owns it paid $240,000 for it in 1990.
354 Wayne St. is a large two family home. The couple that owns it paid $89,900 for it in 1981.
Are you trying to say that what these two couples did was because they couldn't make any money renting or selling their homes legitimately? Really?

Posted on: 2013/1/6 20:10
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:
Wrong again. The building on Pavonia is actually quite nice and is a modern rowhouse. I didn't buy it myself because it lacked outdoor space and was too close to Cordero School for my tastes. The fact that it's a nice building and a nice area is precisely why the shenanigans going on there were so obvious to the neighbors who called the authorities. "Tenement" that is funny.

They are tenements whats so funny about it ? Downtown J.C. is getting more like Hoboken everyday at least with all the apartment buildings. Why don't they build some one and two family homes where the owner would live there ? Most of these apartments are not even condos but rentals and if they are condos they are being rented out. Co-ops would be a better way to go.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 20:03
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Please. Ask the folks in Newport and just read the attached article. In my old condo complex there were 5 Israelis living in a one bedroom apartment.


First of all, neither of the buildings in the article are new construction. They are tenements, and they exist because of the lack of affordable housing caused by too few new units to meet demand. Second, neither of these buildings is in Newport, so I'm not sure why you want to ask the "folks in Newport" unless you think high paid, white collar workers who happen to be ethnically from Asia are the same as poor immigrants living in tenements. If the latter is the case, its probably a product of racism rather than rational thought.


Wrong again. The building on Pavonia is actually quite nice and is a modern rowhouse. I didn't buy it myself because it lacked outdoor space and was too close to Cordero School for my tastes. The fact that it's a nice building and a nice area is precisely why the shenanigans going on there were so obvious to the neighbors who called the authorities. "Tenement" that is funny.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 19:50
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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To vigilante...I kinda of would have to agree with Ianmac47 about your earlier post....not really cool.

I mean u did single out Asians and then were a bit more specific saying "indians".


I think the real issue is the lack of decent and affordable housing.

I can assure you that every immigrant group and even long established residents have lived all bunched up at one time or another.......many even now.

Example: College students, hispanics, Africans, African-Americans, Caucasians, etc.....





That would be me. Moved here 25 years ago, shared a brownstone downtown with 4 roommates. Each had our own room and paid $200.00 each per month. Nowadays that wouldn't get you a 1 bedroom downtown. Thus many of the newer residents, many of them immigrant transient workers are living stacked in too small apartments. More apartments doesn't solve the problem unless the rent is $200.oo a month. Have you seen how some of the Moishe's workers live? And yes, many of those same young residents are Indian and Asian.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 19:44
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:

Please. Ask the folks in Newport and just read the attached article. In my old condo complex there were 5 Israelis living in a one bedroom apartment.


First of all, neither of the buildings in the article are new construction. They are tenements, and they exist because of the lack of affordable housing caused by too few new units to meet demand. Second, neither of these buildings is in Newport, so I'm not sure why you want to ask the "folks in Newport" unless you think high paid, white collar workers who happen to be ethnically from Asia are the same as poor immigrants living in tenements. If the latter is the case, its probably a product of racism rather than rational thought.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 19:17
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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To vigilante...I kinda of would have to agree with Ianmac47 about your earlier post....not really cool.

I mean u did single out Asians and then were a bit more specific saying "indians".


I think the real issue is the lack of decent and affordable housing.

I can assure you that every immigrant group and even long established residents have lived all bunched up at one time or another.......many even now.

Example: College students, hispanics, Africans, African-Americans, Caucasians, etc.....




Posted on: 2013/1/6 19:01
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
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Vigilante wrote:
Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


There wouldn't be a development if there wasn't the expectation that it could be sold or rented. If it will be built, then it can be sold.

If a development of this size can be built with the expectation of being sold, it is only because there is already demand for that product.

The same people complaining that this is too big and out of scale will be complaining that rents are becoming unaffordable. Well yes, that's what happens when demand outstrips supply and you don't build more supply.


Many buildings that were built to sell failed and ended up renting to the endless supply of Indians and other Asians who are willing to split a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment amongst four, five or more people. The expected influx of said number of people ends up doubling and tripling. Sometimes it's even worse.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 29740914961260.xml&coll=3


Oh, I get it now. Just old fashion racism. Not really any need to say anything more to you.


Please. Ask the folks in Newport and just read the attached article. In my old condo complex there were 5 Israelis living in a one bedroom apartment.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 17:01
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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ianmac47 wrote:
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Vigilante wrote:
Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


There wouldn't be a development if there wasn't the expectation that it could be sold or rented. If it will be built, then it can be sold.

If a development of this size can be built with the expectation of being sold, it is only because there is already demand for that product.

The same people complaining that this is too big and out of scale will be complaining that rents are becoming unaffordable. Well yes, that's what happens when demand outstrips supply and you don't build more supply.


Many buildings that were built to sell failed and ended up renting to the endless supply of Indians and other Asians who are willing to split a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment amongst four, five or more people. The expected influx of said number of people ends up doubling and tripling. Sometimes it's even worse.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 29740914961260.xml&coll=3


Oh, I get it now. Just old fashion racism. Not really any need to say anything more to you.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 15:47
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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Vigilante wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.



Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


That's a mass transit issue, not a housing issue. If more people want to live here, we need to add more mass transit options. Not sure why PATH has the monopoly on trains to NYC - other organizations should be able to develop routes as well.


Yes, that's what I said but developers and the people they grease couldn't care less about those things. They just keep stacking people up in cheaply made housing.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 14:45
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.



Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


That's a mass transit issue, not a housing issue. If more people want to live here, we need to add more mass transit options. Not sure why PATH has the monopoly on trains to NYC - other organizations should be able to develop routes as well.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 14:25
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Vigilante wrote:
Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


There wouldn't be a development if there wasn't the expectation that it could be sold or rented. If it will be built, then it can be sold.

If a development of this size can be built with the expectation of being sold, it is only because there is already demand for that product.

The same people complaining that this is too big and out of scale will be complaining that rents are becoming unaffordable. Well yes, that's what happens when demand outstrips supply and you don't build more supply.


Many buildings that were built to sell failed and ended up renting to the endless supply of Indians and other Asians who are willing to split a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment amongst four, five or more people. The expected influx of said number of people ends up doubling and tripling. Sometimes it's even worse.

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/jerse ... 29740914961260.xml&coll=3

Posted on: 2013/1/6 14:11
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.


There wouldn't be a development if there wasn't the expectation that it could be sold or rented. If it will be built, then it can be sold.

If a development of this size can be built with the expectation of being sold, it is only because there is already demand for that product.

The same people complaining that this is too big and out of scale will be complaining that rents are becoming unaffordable. Well yes, that's what happens when demand outstrips supply and you don't build more supply.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 13:22
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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For allowing the developer to build extra floors, the city could at least get him to build a park in JSQ.

a park? there is plenty of space for the homeless to sleep already..

At least with a park they won't be in the way of productive society.

Posted on: 2013/1/6 3:34
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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For allowing the developer to build extra floors, the city could atleast get him to build a park in JSQ.


a park? there is plenty of space for the homeless to sleep already..

Posted on: 2013/1/6 0:30
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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For allowing the developer to build extra floors, the city could atleast get him to build a park in JSQ.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 21:17
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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what private development is not for development sake? one could have said that about newport back in the 80's, one could have said that about hudosn county in the 1800s.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 21:00
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.



Wrong. This is development for development's sake. I don't think anyone here is anti-change. This is more about having some aforethought in regards to mass transit and infrastructure. Some folks are getting bags of cash so that others can take the money and run without any regard to the citizens of Jersey City. OOOH another bagel shop! Enjoy that as we pry you out of the PATH train.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 19:57
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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The Heights and Greenville never would have been developed the way they are now had it not been for the streetcars, which used to be ubiquitous around Jersey City if you look at some old maps. This is prime real estate that will be under-utilized until it becomes politically possible again to engage in the type of major infrastructure projects that originally made this area.

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ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.


Resized Image

Greenville when the streetcars were introduced. :) Old Bergen & Bartholdi looking south - Greenville Park at right. Still a fire hydrant on that corner. 4/10/1947.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 18:25
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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The Heights and Greenville never would have been developed the way they are now had it not been for the streetcars, which used to be ubiquitous around Jersey City if you look at some old maps. This is prime real estate that will be under-utilized until it becomes politically possible again to engage in the type of major infrastructure projects that originally made this area.

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ianmac47 wrote:
All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.


Posted on: 2013/1/5 18:05
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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All of this complaining is policy through emotional response. That helps no one.

You think these towers are causing some kind of change, like they will be a catalyst to ruining quality of life in Journal Square. That's not it. The change has already happened. These towers are the result, not the cause, the product, not the catalyst.

They are to built practically on top of the Journal Square transit center. Buses, PATH, and what could have been a light rail station if the don't-change-anything crowd hadn't been so oppositional to running a line down Sixth Street.

The traffic problems with fix themselves. If there is too much traffic, more people will take transit.

Let the grownups talk now.


Posted on: 2013/1/5 17:40
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And what about parks for the young kids to play? Do you expect them to go to the city too? Or do you expect them to stay indoors and play video games and put on weight?

Posted on: 2013/1/5 17:17
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NJ should stop emulating "big brother" NYC. NYC has an excellent public transit system with an extensive subway network and bus system where the subways do not run. You can hire a cab from anywhere very easily. And in the neighborhoods, you will find all the options for dining, drinking, shopping, etc. JC has light rail, which runs only in couple of neighborhoods. There aren't many shopping, dining etc options. So where do you expect all these new folks to go for all the amenities? Take the PATH and go to the city? These buildings will have garages and most people will own cars and add to the traffic and pollution. This is not smart growth.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 17:14
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Another straw added to the PATH camel's back...

Posted on: 2013/1/5 15:55
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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JCCheerleader wrote:
It's not a good investment when the local streets can't handle traffic as it is. I'm for development-IF it makes sense. This doesn't make sense. It's disproportionate to the existing surrounding buildings, it's too dense, and the streets can't handle any more congestion. This building is as tall as that ugly Goldman Sashs monstronsity Downtown and it doesn't belong where it's going in.


When will people realize that development in a very dense urban city is NOT about vehicular traffic. It's actually about the opposite - higher density equals higher reliance on public transit. This building will sit ON TOP of the Journal Square Path station. How will this clog up the streets exactly??

Posted on: 2013/1/5 15:20
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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I think it makes sense to towers around mass transit. of course, the port authority needs to work on making the PATH more efficient - why not doublee-decker trains or articulated trains.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 11:19
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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The reason you have high density at a transportation hub is to cut down on traffic as people that live in those buildings will walk to mass transportation. You build it further away and people will then drive to the transportation center.

This is an excellent project. Tax abatements where they are appropriate to create an incentive for development are not the problem. The problem is how the money from the PILOTs (the City brings in more money than traditional taxes on these projects) is used/squandered.

Jersey City needs a growing tax base so that fewer of us don't shoulder the tax burden. The City also needs an intelligent and sustainable budget plan.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 9:37
soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Re: 42-story residential tower on tap for Journal Square
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It's not a good investment when the local streets can't handle traffic as it is. I'm for development-IF it makes sense. This doesn't make sense. It's disproportionate to the existing surrounding buildings, it's too dense, and the streets can't handle any more congestion. This building is as tall as that ugly Goldman Sashs monstronsity Downtown and it doesn't belong where it's going in.

Posted on: 2013/1/5 9:28
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