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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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The President was in town yesterday and Hudson corridor was shutdown to all aircraft for some time. Mostly NYC tourist helicopters got stuck with passengers and were circling over our heads.

There is also an article about a near miss in nj.com with a video. That was shot on 5/12 from a playground.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014 ... _hudson_tour_flights.html

Posted on: 2014/5/13 0:41
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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PathH8Tr wrote:
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MDM wrote:
What is with the helicopters today? I have been doing some roof repairs and I swear, they are flying overhead every couple of minutes.

This is way more than usual. Some sort of training or event going on?


Saw a filming helicopter so it could be a movie shoot.


One of the helicopters was a replica (or perhaps the real thing) of POTUS' chopper "Marine One." Most of the others were troop carrier Chinooks.

Posted on: 2014/5/11 20:32
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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MDM wrote:
What is with the helicopters today? I have been doing some roof repairs and I swear, they are flying overhead every couple of minutes.

This is way more than usual. Some sort of training or event going on?


Saw a filming helicopter so it could be a movie shoot.

Posted on: 2014/5/11 19:11
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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Around 3:15 PM, I was leaving Target and I saw 6 or 7 of them fly west above Target. After a while, they turned north. The helicopters were different colors and models. I thought maybe there was an accident somewhere.

Posted on: 2014/5/11 18:42
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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MDM wrote:
What is with the helicopters today? I have been doing some roof repairs and I swear, they are flying overhead every couple of minutes.

This is way more than usual. Some sort of training or event going on?


I saw 5 helicopters flying down the Hudson river in formation heading south.

Posted on: 2014/5/11 17:36
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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MDM wrote:
What is with the helicopters today? I have been doing some roof repairs and I swear, they are flying overhead every couple of minutes.

This is way more than usual. Some sort of training or event going on?


I saw several army helicopters so I imagine some sort of training.

Posted on: 2014/5/11 15:49
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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What is with the helicopters today? I have been doing some roof repairs and I swear, they are flying overhead every couple of minutes.

This is way more than usual. Some sort of training or event going on?

Posted on: 2014/5/11 15:24
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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To brewster:
My biggest complaint when it comes to kayaking in the area is the inconsiderate pricks who pilot their powered boats at high speed creating massive wakes, even when aware of non-powered traffic. Heck, even within the channel leading away from the boat ramp I have been on the receiving end of heavy wakes created by the Liberty Golf Club tender boats who sometimes come and go at high speed.


I find the boat traffic S of Ellis to be minimal, it's actually amazed me how underutilized the area is south of all the marinas and ferries. Yeah, they do go too fast in the channel, as they do in every channel everywhere, but at least then they're gone, and there's not another one in 60 seconds like the copters. When I paddle south to Robbins Reef I rarely encounter anyone at all, and then it's tugs, barges and the occasional cruiseship.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 22:12
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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To Frank_M:
You are right. I was being a bit too dismissive. I find the constant complaining of helicopter and general aviation traffic to be dominated by NIMBY types who play on people's (mostly irrational) fears. Of course, in an ideal world, noise (from the air, or from level ground) would be nil. And, of course, you are correct: there is helicopter traffic over the general area, but I seem to not be affected by it to the point where I feel it detracts from my enjoyment of the park. But, as you point out, if your intention in visiting the park is to be at peace and enjoy quiet time, I can see how any traffic would be detrimental to that. I will give you my biggest pet peeve when it comes to enjoying the park: the maniacs that drive through it as if it was the autobahn. I wish the state park police would step up speed limit enforcement.

To brewster:
My biggest complaint when it comes to kayaking in the area is the inconsiderate pricks who pilot their powered boats at high speed creating massive wakes, even when aware of non-powered traffic. Heck, even within the channel leading away from the boat ramp I have been on the receiving end of heavy wakes created by the Liberty Golf Club tender boats who sometimes come and go at high speed.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 21:44
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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bodhipooh wrote:
You might be right about those areas, but I wasn't commenting on that, at all. The comment to which I responded was specifically about LSP. And, you just corroborated my point: LSP is not affected by the tours as much as that guy claimed.


I beg to differ. It sucks when an otherwise lovely and peaceful kayak paddle out by the statue is dominated by drone of the steady, and I mean steady, stream of choppers coming for a looky loo at Lady Liberty. This form of tourism is just so unnecessary. There's plenty of tourist boats, or is that too plebian?

Posted on: 2014/3/20 16:45
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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bodhipooh wrote:
LSP is not affected by the tours as much as that guy claimed.


You know my name but I’m that guy, bodhipooh?

I realize that’s an attempt at being dismissive, but unless you’re omnipotent, your experiences cannot speak for all potential observations. I’m willing to believe there wasn’t a single helicopter in the sky on the days you were out there flying a kite, so why not extend the courtesy? C'mon, don't be that guy.

Most of my visits to the park have been unspoiled by helicopter noise, but with the increased number of flights, and conditions permitting, it is no longer always the case.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 16:42
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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Maybe it's all about perspective. My apartment overlooks the Hyatt, Grundy park and NYC. I had a friend visting and after admiring the view (which distracted her from my shabby furniture), she added "and you get to watch the helicopters flying by, that's so cool!".

Posted on: 2014/3/20 10:43
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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Vigilante wrote:
It seems that over the last year the helicopter traffic has stepped up considerably flying west from NYC. It appears that Route 1-9/78 is the new route for choppers headed to Newark. Many of the choppers are barely 600-1,000 feet in altitude. Though annoying I really don't notice the choppers until there are news choppers hovering above the neighborhood.


There's a heliport in Kearny that opened in 2010, it's on the Passaic River just south of the Pulaski Skyway. They use the route over the Pulaski to fly to/from NYC, they have to fly below 1000 feet in this air corridor. People should be worried about the helicopters flying to and from the heliport since they have to fly so low.

There's a lot of chopers based there, they also provide fuel and maintenance. They have their own facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/KearnyHeliport

Jersey City tried to keep it from opening
http://www.hudsonreporter.com/view/fu ... iport-?instance=more_page

Posted on: 2014/3/20 10:23
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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I do notice the occasional helicopter in LSP, but they generally seem to be heading to Newark Liberty Airport and back, not tour helicopters.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 9:46
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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It seems that over the last year the helicopter traffic has stepped up considerably flying west from NYC. It appears that Route 1-9/78 is the new route for choppers headed to Newark. Many of the choppers are barely 600-1,000 feet in altitude. Though annoying I really don't notice the choppers until there are news choppers hovering above the neighborhood.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 9:44
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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bodhipooh wrote:
People seem to forget that no state, county or municipality is legally entitled, or able, to control air traffic. Any and all air traffic is the purview of the federal government. Petitioning state officials will lead nowhere. The only agency that can bring about changes is the FAA.



In this case Downtown Manhattan Heliport is owned by NYC. They gave the contract to Saker Aviation to run the heliport and rent it out to 5 tourist helicopter companies. NYC takes a fee from each take off so more sorties the better for their bottom line. NYC Economic Corp decided on the new routes and hours of the day for the tour helicopters.


It could very well be that the NYDC exercised their muscle to force the tour operators to modify their routes, but the fact remains that no municipality or state has the legal power to ban or interfere with air traffic. So, New Jersey (or, Jersey City) will never be able to ban helicopters or general aviation from operating in this area. The best they can do is lobby the FAA to implement route changes.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 9:32
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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Spend an afternoon in Liberty State Park on a beautiful day in the coming months. Maybe sit on a bench near the nature center and relax... or try to. The noise of helicopters will almost never cease, and in my experience, it goes a very long way to diminish the enjoyment of a unique urban oasis that is shared by many thousands of people


Have you actually done what you are exhorting others to do??? Because, I will tell you this: I live ACROSS from LSP. I run there almost daily, I spend many a Summer afternoon in the park, sometimes grilling, others just walking my dog. Sometimes I take my daughter kite-flying. I kayak in the Hudson along the LSP shore, sometimes venturing out to circle Liberty Island. Very rarely do I notice any significant helicopter activity, and never any of these swarms of helicopters you claim to be the bane of people's existence. I don't see anyone else looking up to the skies, filled with anger because their enjoyment is diminished. In fact, I don't remember a single instance in which I have felt any sort of diminished enjoyment of the park because of helicopter noise. In short, you are spouting hysterics.


You won't hear them that badly in LSP because they make their turn to NYC heliport before the park South bound. North Bound they are much further to East and higher altitude to hear the noise at irritating levels. It is almost spring time. I invite you to walk anywhere between Goldman Building and Hoboken on a nice sunny day by the waterfront and see for yourself.


You might be right about those areas, but I wasn't commenting on that, at all. The comment to which I responded was specifically about LSP. And, you just corroborated my point: LSP is not affected by the tours as much as that guy claimed.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 9:28
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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bodhipooh wrote:
Have you actually done what you are exhorting others to do??? Because, I will tell you this: I live ACROSS from LSP. I run there almost daily, I spend many a Summer afternoon in the park, sometimes grilling, others just walking my dog. Sometimes I take my daughter kite-flying. I kayak in the Hudson along the LSP shore, sometimes venturing out to circle Liberty Island. Very rarely do I notice any significant helicopter activity, and never any of these swarms of helicopters you claim to be the bane of people's existence. I don't see anyone else looking up to the skies, filled with anger because their enjoyment is diminished. In fact, I don't remember a single instance in which I have felt any sort of diminished enjoyment of the park because of helicopter noise. In short, you are spouting hysterics.


You got me. I have an condition that causes me to see and hear imaginary helicopters, although they’re usually painted black, have no markings, and hover outside my bedroom window in the middle of the night. I’m also in the habit of concocting fictitious memories and “spouting hysteria” just for the sake of disagreeing with somebody I don’t know for no reason.

Baloney.

While it’s probably true, although unfortunate, the chances are fairly high that I’m overestimating the average person’s aural awareness of world that surrounds around them. Regardless, the helicopter activity I experienced in the park last year greatly exceeded anything from previous years, when it wasn’t at a level that seemed particularly bothersome. Lately however, sitting behind the nature center on beautiful, calm days where it’s otherwise uniquely peaceful, I’ve witnessed a virtually continuous parade of helicopters buzzing past, presumably so that tourists can get a better look at the Statue of Liberty.

Okay, so you don’t hear them, but do ever hang out in the park for the purpose of doing essentially nothing and deliberately enjoy the absence of continuous noise? It appears that you’re in the habit of going with a focused exercise or entertainment agenda—jogging, paddling, flying kites, cooking, and playing with your dog—that is, you go for the spatial freedom. I don’t think I would notice much in the way of helicopter activity either if I was huffing and puffing.

Again, perhaps I am in the minority, but it's my experience that calmness is at such a high premium in our area, that it makes very little sense to degrade one of the nicest things Jersey City has to offer, just to serve New York City’s helicopter tourism market.

Posted on: 2014/3/20 9:28
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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bodhipooh wrote:
People seem to forget that no state, county or municipality is legally entitled, or able, to control air traffic. Any and all air traffic is the purview of the federal government. Petitioning state officials will lead nowhere. The only agency that can bring about changes is the FAA.



In this case Downtown Manhattan Heliport is owned by NYC. They gave the contract to Saker Aviation to run the heliport and rent it out to 5 tourist helicopter companies. NYC takes a fee from each take off so more sorties the better for their bottom line. NYC Economic Corp decided on the new routes and hours of the day for the tour helicopters.

Posted on: 2014/3/19 18:01
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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JC_rider wrote:
These tour helicopters did not operate over Hudson at this frequency up until 2012. They used to fly over Manhattan, Central Park, East River, Brooklyn Heights and other neighborhoods so the noise and possible risk from a crash was spread out. New York Senators pressured NYC economic development corp to change their routes. They banned all tour flights from west 34 st heliport and east side, over Manhattan and Central Park. They decided on new routes without any approvals from NJ towns in 2010 which was implemented in 2012. As per their new route they fly 1500 feet North bound central part of Hudson river (less noisy for NYC) and fly South bound at max 900 feet hugging the coast of NJ and over apts in Weehawken Piers. I saw them many times flying over Hyatt hotel and Pier Apts in Jersey City. There is no NJ economic development corp. to tell them to take it back to NY side. FAA is OK with it as long as no one is complaining hard. This is the injustice we are talking about and asking for support.


Thanks for doing what you are doing -- anyone living in JC is a fool if they don't sign this petition!

Posted on: 2014/3/19 17:53
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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Spend an afternoon in Liberty State Park on a beautiful day in the coming months. Maybe sit on a bench near the nature center and relax... or try to. The noise of helicopters will almost never cease, and in my experience, it goes a very long way to diminish the enjoyment of a unique urban oasis that is shared by many thousands of people


Have you actually done what you are exhorting others to do??? Because, I will tell you this: I live ACROSS from LSP. I run there almost daily, I spend many a Summer afternoon in the park, sometimes grilling, others just walking my dog. Sometimes I take my daughter kite-flying. I kayak in the Hudson along the LSP shore, sometimes venturing out to circle Liberty Island. Very rarely do I notice any significant helicopter activity, and never any of these swarms of helicopters you claim to be the bane of people's existence. I don't see anyone else looking up to the skies, filled with anger because their enjoyment is diminished. In fact, I don't remember a single instance in which I have felt any sort of diminished enjoyment of the park because of helicopter noise. In short, you are spouting hysterics.


You won't hear them that badly in LSP because they make their turn to NYC heliport before the park South bound. North Bound they are much further to East and higher altitude to hear the noise at irritating levels. It is almost spring time. I invite you to walk anywhere between Goldman Building and Hoboken on a nice sunny day by the waterfront and see for yourself.

Posted on: 2014/3/19 17:39

Edited by JC_rider on 2014/3/19 18:03:57
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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These tour helicopters did not operate over Hudson at this frequency up until 2012. They used to fly over Manhattan, Central Park, East River, Brooklyn Heights and other neighborhoods so the noise and possible risk from a crash was spread out. New York Senators pressured NYC economic development corp to change their routes. They banned all tour flights from west 34 st heliport and east side, over Manhattan and Central Park. They decided on new routes without any approvals from NJ towns in 2010 which was implemented in 2012. As per their new route they fly 1500 feet North bound central part of Hudson river (less noisy for NYC) and fly South bound at max 900 feet hugging the coast of NJ and over apts in Weehawken Piers. I saw them many times flying over Hyatt hotel and Pier Apts in Jersey City. There is no NJ economic development corp. to tell them to take it back to NY side. FAA is OK with it as long as no one is complaining hard. This is the injustice we are talking about and asking for support.

Posted on: 2014/3/19 17:35
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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Spend an afternoon in Liberty State Park on a beautiful day in the coming months. Maybe sit on a bench near the nature center and relax... or try to. The noise of helicopters will almost never cease, and in my experience, it goes a very long way to diminish the enjoyment of a unique urban oasis that is shared by many thousands of people


Have you actually done what you are exhorting others to do??? Because, I will tell you this: I live ACROSS from LSP. I run there almost daily, I spend many a Summer afternoon in the park, sometimes grilling, others just walking my dog. Sometimes I take my daughter kite-flying. I kayak in the Hudson along the LSP shore, sometimes venturing out to circle Liberty Island. Very rarely do I notice any significant helicopter activity, and never any of these swarms of helicopters you claim to be the bane of people's existence. I don't see anyone else looking up to the skies, filled with anger because their enjoyment is diminished. In fact, I don't remember a single instance in which I have felt any sort of diminished enjoyment of the park because of helicopter noise. In short, you are spouting hysterics.

Posted on: 2014/3/19 16:25
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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I generally agree with the hysteria angle, but I don’t agree that so many helicopter flights are appropriate over anyone’s backyard, especially when those flights primarily benefit a few small tourism outfits and a relatively small number of customers. Further, the recent explosion in the number of these NYC-oriented flights disproportionately impact Hudson County thanks to regulations that keep the helis further away from Manhattan.

While it’s a subjective issue, popular opinion would likely agree that helicopters have little competition for some of the most unpleasant sounding vehicles ever created. A helicopter creates a uniquely irritating sound thanks to the slow beat frequency generated by each rotor passing over the tail, and the high sound pressure level perceived at the ground. The steady droning of a low flying propeller-driven aircraft might sound like music by comparison.

Spend an afternoon in Liberty State Park on a beautiful day in the coming months. Maybe sit on a bench near the nature center and relax... or try to. The noise of helicopters will almost never cease, and in my experience, it goes a very long way to diminish the enjoyment of a unique urban oasis that is shared by many thousands of people. Only a handful of years ago, this was not the case.

MORE noise is not the popularly accepted trend in urban areas. If I drive into Manhattan—an already noisy place—and start honking the car horn obnoxiously, not only will a thousand people throw me the finger, I’ll also be ticketed. Apparently, noise related quality-of-life issues matter a great deal depending on who makes the rules, and who gets the short end of the stick.

Posted on: 2014/3/19 15:12
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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Bingo. Nailed it
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bodhipooh wrote:
People seem to forget that no state, county or municipality is legally entitled, or able, to control air traffic. Any and all air traffic is the purview of the federal government. Petitioning state officials will lead nowhere. The only agency that can bring about changes is the FAA.

I find the whole idea/concept of wanting to ban helicopter traffic to be silly. Plainly put, this is just NIMBY stuff. Also, that fb page is littered with alarmist, chicken little type, fear mongering. And, in the end, given the amount of traffic quoted in the petition itself, the fact that only two mishaps have occurred in the past 5 or 6 years is a testament to the overall safety of those operations. If you are SO concerned about safety, and the impact of noise on the population, why not just ban cars?? Around here, more pedestrians are killed annually by cars that people die on helicopter/airplane accidents. More noise is generated by the traffic and cars on our roads. And, more contamination! So, you see? If you take the argument of noise, risk and accidents to its logical conclusion, you can only possibly conclude that cars should be banned. Who is advocating for that? Why not?

Posted on: 2014/3/19 14:39
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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People seem to forget that no state, county or municipality is legally entitled, or able, to control air traffic. Any and all air traffic is the purview of the federal government. Petitioning state officials will lead nowhere. The only agency that can bring about changes is the FAA.

I find the whole idea/concept of wanting to ban helicopter traffic to be silly. Plainly put, this is just NIMBY stuff. Also, that fb page is littered with alarmist, chicken little type, fear mongering. And, in the end, given the amount of traffic quoted in the petition itself, the fact that only two mishaps have occurred in the past 5 or 6 years is a testament to the overall safety of those operations. If you are SO concerned about safety, and the impact of noise on the population, why not just ban cars?? Around here, more pedestrians are killed annually by cars that people die on helicopter/airplane accidents. More noise is generated by the traffic and cars on our roads. And, more contamination! So, you see? If you take the argument of noise, risk and accidents to its logical conclusion, you can only possibly conclude that cars should be banned. Who is advocating for that? Why not?

Posted on: 2014/3/19 9:49
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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JC_rider wrote:
Hey Cartman,

We wanna ban south park too. I kid I kid... I like Kenny.

I can't comment about other "ban" issues but I personally don't like rotor noise coming from NYC helos which can be heard as far as the JC City Hall sometimes. It is also a major potential safety issue when one of these helos crash almost every 2 years. Since we don't get a dime from NYC on profits but all noise it is logical to ban or push them over to NY side of Hudson. Wait till summer when there will be 60 flights per hour.


I think we are taking the wrong approach here. I agree that the noise is obnoxious. However, the key here is that they aren't paying for inconveniencing our city. Our city needs the cash, and we should work to present two choices: 1. don't create a nuisance with the noise levels and pollution (i.e., stop flying) or 2. compensate the city. The first approach isn't realistic, but it can be the stick to get them to the second option. It is also much more likely to get you the support you need to actually accomplish something.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 15:44
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Hey Cartman,

We wanna ban south park too. I kid I kid... I like Kenny.

I can't comment about other "ban" issues but I personally don't like rotor noise coming from NYC helos which can be heard as far as the JC City Hall sometimes. It is also a major potential safety issue when one of these helos crash almost every 2 years. Since we don't get a dime from NYC on profits but all noise it is logical to ban or push them over to NY side of Hudson. Wait till summer when there will be 60 flights per hour.

Posted on: 2014/3/18 14:06
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
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The crowd on this site is remarkable. Is there anything you guys don't want to ban or don't demand heavy police involvement in?

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GrovePath wrote:
http://youtu.be/yfiAPc2b1qw

A news helicopter crashed near the Space Needle in Seattle, Wash. on March 18, 2014.

Two people were killed and another injured this morning when a helicopter crashed in Seattle just feet away from the iconic Space Needle.

The helicopter was a news chopper owned by ABC News affiliate KOMO.

The chopper crashed moments after lift-off and quickly became engulfed in flames, killing two and sending a third victim to the hospital in critical condition, according to the Seattle Fire Department.

Two cars were also on fire when firefighters arrived to douse the flames.

Plumes of smoke quickly filled the skies near Space Needle shortly shortly the crash.


Please help us avoid such a crash happening here. Visit http://www.stopthechopnynj.org/ and

https://www.facebook.com/StopNycTouris ... rsOverNjSideOfHudsonRiver for more info.

Please sign the petition below:

https://www.change.org/petitions/stop- ... -nj-hudson-river-corridor

Posted on: 2014/3/18 13:19
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Re: Helicopters over the Hudson
#55
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
http://youtu.be/yfiAPc2b1qw

A news helicopter crashed near the Space Needle in Seattle, Wash. on March 18, 2014.

Two people were killed and another injured this morning when a helicopter crashed in Seattle just feet away from the iconic Space Needle.

The helicopter was a news chopper owned by ABC News affiliate KOMO.

The chopper crashed moments after lift-off and quickly became engulfed in flames, killing two and sending a third victim to the hospital in critical condition, according to the Seattle Fire Department.

Two cars were also on fire when firefighters arrived to douse the flames.

Plumes of smoke quickly filled the skies near Space Needle shortly shortly the crash.


Please help us avoid such a crash happening here. Visit http://www.stopthechopnynj.org/ and

https://www.facebook.com/StopNycTouris ... rsOverNjSideOfHudsonRiver for more info.

Please sign the petition below:

https://www.change.org/petitions/stop- ... -nj-hudson-river-corridor

Posted on: 2014/3/18 11:58
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