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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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fauxboken wrote:
any news on the white kids? are they recovering from the sucker punches? Or is "paralyzed in a coma" where things stand?

i guess in JC, before you hit on a girl (or grope one?!?!), you have to check to see if she's with an ugly, limp-dick, fobby, scumbag mutant. i truly hope these twats are beaten to a pulp in prison. more likely, they'll be welcome into a gang, become hardened, and then get deported to live in the tropics. so, i wish them guinea worm and a bangkok


Since the story above stated they were being charged with felony murder, I'm assuming the guy died.

Posted on: 2010/9/21 18:49
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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any news on the white kids? are they recovering from the sucker punches? Or is "paralyzed in a coma" where things stand?

i guess in JC, before you hit on a girl (or grope one?!?!), you have to check to see if she's with an ugly, limp-dick, fobby, scumbag mutant. i truly hope these twats are beaten to a pulp in prison. more likely, they'll be welcome into a gang, become hardened, and then get deported to live in the tropics. so, i wish them guinea worm and a bangkok

Posted on: 2010/9/21 13:04
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Wildemar Dangcil, left and Anh Hoang make their first appearance at Central Judicial Processing Court in Jersey City via video link from the Hudson County jail on a felony murder charge, on Friday. Dangcil is charged with aggravated assault.

Posted on: 2010/9/19 3:28
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Nice job by law enforcement. Good news in an otherwise grim story:

Suspects in vicious Jersey City assault are seized at airport by cops

Published: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 11:12 AM
Michaelangelo Conte/The Jersey Journal Michaelangelo Conte/The Jersey Journal

Two Jersey City men who fled to Vietnam after a Downtown assault that left a man paralyzed and in a coma were arrested at Newark Liberty Airport Thursday night after stepping off a flight from Saigon, officials said.

Wildemar Dangcil, 28, of Gifford Avenue, is charged with the Aug. 28 aggravated assault on a Warren Township man at 1:58 a.m. outside the Grand Banks Bar & Cafe at Washington and York streets, Jersey City police spokesman Stan Eason said last night.

The 22-year-old victim suffered brain trauma and remains on life support at the Jersey City Medical Center, officials said.

Arrested with Dangcil was Anh Hoang, 27, of Virginia Avenue, who was charged with obstructing a government function, Eason said, adding that police believe Hoang was present at the assault.

Police believe the Warren man was acting as peacemaker when two groups had an altercation inside the bar after someone groped a woman's breast. Robert Young, 22, of Lebanon, has been charged with criminal sexual contact, Eason said.

A bouncer said he escorted the victim out and was trying to disperse the disorderly groups when he saw the man get punched in the face and then kicked in the face when he was down, reports said. Witnesses said two Asian men fled the scene and within days police learned the pair had fled to Vietnam.

The Jersey City Police Department, Hudson County Prosecutor's Office, U.S. Marshals Service and Immigrations and Customs Enforcement tracked the pair "and laid the groundwork for their return," Eason said.

Dangcil and Hoang made their first appearance on the charges in Central Judicial Processing court in Jersey City yesterday via video link from Hudson County jail in Kearny. Dangcil's bail was set at $350,000 cash only and Hoang's at $50,000 cash or bond by Judge Richard Nieto.

Posted on: 2010/9/18 15:22
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:
Let's agree to disagree at this point


Agreed (...or disagreed )

Posted on: 2010/9/17 3:02
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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sinik wrote:


I really don't know why you are making this issue your personal crusade and I think you have chosen the wrong crime to take a stand on.


Think we have both hijacked this thread. Let's agree to disagree at this point, and move it to another thread if you want to debate it further.

On this individual crime....I think it's horrible and I hope the perps are caught.

For those that are directly invoved, pretty sure the police don't crayon out races and colors on mugshots. Big difference imo on that and publishing it to everyone.

Posted on: 2010/9/17 1:46
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:

Sinik I posted BOTH the link AND the excerpt in my post. Your reply made NO distinction nor qualification between the two.


You included the excerpt in quotes and preceded it with "To quote:", so that's what I would expect you to understand I was referring to by my use of the word "quote".
Do you really need to be told everything explicitly or are you playing dumb?

So let's talk about the whole Wiki article and not just the "quote". The main perp in this crime is almost certainly from South East Asia so the stats in the article which are related mostly to black and white crime are largely not relevant.

Even if the perps were black(and I am pretty sure they were not), the Wiki stats are based on the national average of about 12% black population whereas in JC the black and hispanic populations are both about 28% and not much less than whites(~34%) so the stats are not necessarily translatable to this community which has a very different demographic to the national average.

Quote:

On post #36 I didnt care to repost your paragraph that included your rant on Asians, and idiotic assertion about my beliefs. I was answering your first paragraph. I didnt care to answer your idiotic and absurb claims in your second.


Well if you think I was ranting against Asians in the second paragraph, then you are the one with the comprehension problem. If you didn't understand what I was saying in that paragraph (and by saying I was ranting against Asians it is clear that you did not), I really don't think it's possible to have a dialogue with you.

If you were responding to my first paragraph then it makes no sense to delete the second paragraph and include the last sentence which referred only to the second paragraph. Either you didn't understand or you included it dishonestly to change the sense of what I was saying.

I really don't know why you are making this issue your personal crusade and I think you have chosen the wrong crime to take a stand on.

Posted on: 2010/9/15 4:37
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Just curious, but has anyone asked the Journal editor for an explanation? Do other news agencies do this as a rule?

For the record, if you are the victim of a crime and you have to go look at mugshots, they are organized by race and age. It's very relevant. As a victim, would anyone here think to not mention the race of the perp to the police?

Posted on: 2010/9/15 1:36
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
I don't care about crime stats or who commits them. I am just pointing out what I consider to be lame journalism. The JJ's policy of giving a half-assed description of a perp in order to protect a group of people who may otherwise be offended is asinine. If they are going to print any kind of description at all, don't omit one of the most obvious characteristics. Printing facts in a paper does not create stereotypes.


When someone can prove publishing race makes a difference, then I'll support it. So far noone has given any facts nor evidence that it does.

Posted on: 2010/9/15 0:33
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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icechute wrote:

I can read and comprehend. Sometimes even at the same time. Thank you.

What I come away with from your little textbook excerpt is that if I'm a victim of a crime committed by a white person, the percentages say I can, more than likely, ultimately go on with my life and that if I'm a victim of a crime committed by a black person, I, more than likely will end up in a cemetery.

Have I got that right?


No icechute. If you're a victim of a crime committed by any race, and that crime is murder, you're dead irrespective of race. My point was about perps not victims.

Quote:

by sinik on 2010/9/14 15:25:10

Quote:


dtjcview wrote:

Quote:


by sinik on 2010/9/13 23:47:19

BTW the quote from the Wiki was almost entirely qualitative with the only figures given dating back nearly 20 years. 20 years ago the notion of an African-American president was a lot more remote than it is now.




Ok - let me summarise the wiki for Sinik, CC and icechute who don't seem to be able to read nor comprehend. The percentages of crime show little relative differences between races on commiting crimes. But guess who gets arrested the most? And Sinik, 2008 is 2 years ago, not 20. If you guys have something useful to say other than your stereotypical opinions, please back it up with some facts.


You are quite a tricky guy, aren't you? First, in post #36, you selectively lift a quote of mine but deleting some sentences so that it changes the meaning, then you claim that my use of the word "quote" above is referring to the link you posted rather than the quote you excerpted from the link. Nice one.


Sinik I posted BOTH the link AND the excerpt in my post. Your reply made NO distinction nor qualification between the two.


On post #36 I didnt care to repost your paragraph that included your rant on Asians, and idiotic assertion about my beliefs. I was answering your first paragraph. I didnt care to answer your idiotic and absurb claims in your second.

Quote:

Er, no. Not our logic, YOUR logic. I think you need to explain why if the JJ includes race in the description that "creates a stereotype" but including other details do not.

We know the guy that tried to take over the Discovery Channel building a few days ago was Asian and the guy that shot 32 people at Virginia Tech was Asian. So do we think all Asian people are more likely to go crazy like that? Personally, I don't and don't think other people do. However, YOU, dtjcview, do think that other people will draw those kind of inferences from knowing details of ethnicity of people who commit crimes. I don't know why you would think that unless you, yourself believe that people of a certain ethnicity are more likely to commit crimes.

If you don't think that, what makes you presume other people will think it?

Posted on: 2010/9/15 0:24
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
I don't care about crime stats or who commits them. I am just pointing out what I consider to be lame journalism. The JJ's policy of giving a half-assed description of a perp in order to protect a group of people who may otherwise be offended is asinine. If they are going to print any kind of description at all, don't omit one of the most obvious characteristics. Printing facts in a paper does not create stereotypes.


I'm not so sure it is the JJ now. They're only printing what the police give them. Which yes, is a joke.

Posted on: 2010/9/14 19:51
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:

Quote:

by sinik on 2010/9/13 23:47:19

BTW the quote from the Wiki was almost entirely qualitative with the only figures given dating back nearly 20 years. 20 years ago the notion of an African-American president was a lot more remote than it is now.


Ok - let me summarise the wiki for Sinik, CC and icechute who don't seem to be able to read nor comprehend. The percentages of crime show little relative differences between races on commiting crimes. But guess who gets arrested the most? And Sinik, 2008 is 2 years ago, not 20. If you guys have something useful to say other than your stereotypical opinions, please back it up with some facts.



You are quite a tricky guy, aren't you? First, in post #36, you selectively lift a quote of mine but deleting some sentences so that it changes the meaning, then you claim that my use of the word "quote" above is referring to the link you posted rather than the quote you excerpted from the link. Nice one.

Posted on: 2010/9/14 19:25
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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I don't understand why color in a description isn't just that. If I was missing I'd sure like someone to put in the description I'm light brown. If I mugged a person, I'd LOVE them NOT to put in my color. Phew!

Posted on: 2010/9/14 19:14
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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I don't care about crime stats or who commits them. I am just pointing out what I consider to be lame journalism. The JJ's policy of giving a half-assed description of a perp in order to protect a group of people who may otherwise be offended is asinine. If they are going to print any kind of description at all, don't omit one of the most obvious characteristics. Printing facts in a paper does not create stereotypes.

Posted on: 2010/9/14 13:42
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:

Ok - let me summarise the wiki for Sinik, CC and icechute who don't seem to be able to read nor comprehend. The percentages of crime show little relative differences between races on commiting crimes. But guess who gets arrested the most? And Sinik, 2008 is 2 years ago, not 20. If you guys have something useful to say other than your stereotypical opinions, please back it up with some facts.

Quote:

summary from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

Murder and non-negligible homicide
African Americans were arrested more than any other race for murder in 2008, making up 36% of all arrests. African Americans, constituting approximately 12% of the general population, were significantly overrepresented in the total arrests made. African Americans were also significantly overrepresented in victimization, representing 47% of all murder victims. White Americans and individuals of Other race were significantly underrepresented in cases of murder and non-negligible homicide in 2008.

Non-lethal violent crime
White Americans were arrested more than any other race for non-lethal violent crimes in 2008, making up 58% of all arrests. White Americans, constituting approximately 79% of the total population, were significantly underrepresented in the total arrests made. Asian Americans and Pacific Islander Americans, constituting approximately 4% of the total population, were also significantly underrepresented, making up only 1% of total arrests. African Americans were significantly overrepresented for non-lethal violent crimes in 2008, making up 39% of all arrests,

Property crime
White Americans were significantly underrepresented in all property crimes, as were Asian Americans and Pacific Islander Americans. African Americans were significantly overrepresented in all forms of property crime, making up 30% of all arrests.


I can read and comprehend. Sometimes even at the same time. Thank you.

What I come away with from your little textbook excerpt is that if I'm a victim of a crime committed by a white person, the percentages say I can, more than likely, ultimately go on with my life and that if I'm a victim of a crime committed by a black person, I, more than likely will end up in a cemetery.

Have I got that right?

Posted on: 2010/9/14 13:02
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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by Crazy_Chester on 2010/9/13 10:32:12
...........................

You lost me at "blah, blah, blah".

They may as well leave out gender, build, height, and wardrobe, too. And perhaps go a little further and stop reporting on crimes all together. Then no one will get offended.



For those that care to read, the "blah, blah, blah" has information. Sarcasm doesn't excuse your ignorance.

Quote:

by icechute on 2010/9/13 10:47:24

...

Right. And this stereotype is because (unfortunately for those African-Americans who are law-abiding) a majority of crime is committed by them. Same for Hispanics.

This is not racism, but fact. And I'm sorry if it upsets the Utopian state of mind some people think we're living in.


"A majority of crimes is committted by them. Same for Hispanics"

Which is it? African Americans commit most crimes? Or Hispanics? Or both?

Quote:

by sinik on 2010/9/13 23:47:19

BTW the quote from the Wiki was almost entirely qualitative with the only figures given dating back nearly 20 years. 20 years ago the notion of an African-American president was a lot more remote than it is now.


Ok - let me summarise the wiki for Sinik, CC and icechute who don't seem to be able to read nor comprehend. The percentages of crime show little relative differences between races on commiting crimes. But guess who gets arrested the most? And Sinik, 2008 is 2 years ago, not 20. If you guys have something useful to say other than your stereotypical opinions, please back it up with some facts.

Quote:

summary from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

Murder and non-negligible homicide
African Americans were arrested more than any other race for murder in 2008, making up 36% of all arrests. African Americans, constituting approximately 12% of the general population, were significantly overrepresented in the total arrests made. African Americans were also significantly overrepresented in victimization, representing 47% of all murder victims. White Americans and individuals of Other race were significantly underrepresented in cases of murder and non-negligible homicide in 2008.

Non-lethal violent crime
White Americans were arrested more than any other race for non-lethal violent crimes in 2008, making up 58% of all arrests. White Americans, constituting approximately 79% of the total population, were significantly underrepresented in the total arrests made. Asian Americans and Pacific Islander Americans, constituting approximately 4% of the total population, were also significantly underrepresented, making up only 1% of total arrests. African Americans were significantly overrepresented for non-lethal violent crimes in 2008, making up 39% of all arrests,

Property crime
White Americans were significantly underrepresented in all property crimes, as were Asian Americans and Pacific Islander Americans. African Americans were significantly overrepresented in all forms of property crime, making up 30% of all arrests.

Posted on: 2010/9/14 4:47
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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The dumb thing about this argument is that as soon as these guys are apprehended and charged, the JJ will plaster their photographs over the paper as they always do in these cases. Many issues have the photographs of people charged with crimes on the front cover so many people will see this without even buying the paper.

BTW the quote from the Wiki was almost entirely qualitative with the only figures given dating back nearly 20 years. 20 years ago the notion of an African-American president was a lot more remote than it is now. The breakdown of JC residents according to the last published census figures is about 34% white, 28% black, 28% latino/hispanic so it should be expected that crimes will be committed by all of these groups as well as others (as in this case).

I notice that dtjcview is still calling this a "general local" crime. According to the JJ article link that Crazy_Chester posted a while back, Hudson County prosecutors have asked the US Marshall's Fugitive Task Force to get involved and say the State Department may also become involved. I assume the State Department does not normally get involved in "general local" crimes.

Posted on: 2010/9/14 3:47
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:
"Regardless of their arguable accuracy, public focus on the disproportionate representation of minorities in violent crime rate statistics has led to both the general racialization of the discussion regarding crime[39] as well as to the emergence of a racial stereotype which characterizes young African American men as "inherently more sinister, evil and dangerous" than the young men of other racial groups, which Katheryn Russell-Brown has dubbed the "criminal black man" stereotype.[40] Research conducted over the last two decades on the public perceptions of crime reveals that 54% of surveyed White Americans believe that African Americans are more prone to violent behavior.[41] However, this perception of African Americans as inherently violent is not limited to the White segment of the population: the National Race and Politics Survey of 1991 recorded more than half of both White Americans and African Americans as being in agreement with the statement "Blacks are aggressive or violent". Further, nationwide research conducted in 2002 and 2004 revealed that the general public holds the belief that African Americans are involved in a greater percentage of violent crime than the official statistics actually indicate.[41]"


Right. And this stereotype is because (unfortunately for those African-Americans who are law-abiding) a majority of crime is committed by them. Same for Hispanics.

This is not racism, but fact. And I'm sorry if it upsets the Utopian state of mind some people think we're living in.

Posted on: 2010/9/13 14:47
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:
To chiefdahill, t-bird and sinik.

The JCPD are investigating the crime. Their primary aim short term is to find witnesses to the attack. Witnesses will likely have enough info from the JJ/JCPD published details to come forward.

At the moment, it's not a statewide, nationwide nor international manhunt. When it becomes such a manhunt, the local, state, federal and international police authorities will publish what details they see fit.

On general local crimes, publishing race generally serves no purpose imo. I'd leave it to the experts. As far as stereotypes go, this isn't my idea - its a well documented issue, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

To quote:

"Regardless of their arguable accuracy, public focus on the disproportionate representation of minorities in violent crime rate statistics has led to both the general racialization of the discussion regarding crime[39] as well as to the emergence of a racial stereotype which characterizes young African American men as "inherently more sinister, evil and dangerous" than the young men of other racial groups, which Katheryn Russell-Brown has dubbed the "criminal black man" stereotype.[40] Research conducted over the last two decades on the public perceptions of crime reveals that 54% of surveyed White Americans believe that African Americans are more prone to violent behavior.[41] However, this perception of African Americans as inherently violent is not limited to the White segment of the population: the National Race and Politics Survey of 1991 recorded more than half of both White Americans and African Americans as being in agreement with the statement "Blacks are aggressive or violent". Further, nationwide research conducted in 2002 and 2004 revealed that the general public holds the belief that African Americans are involved in a greater percentage of violent crime than the official statistics actually indicate.[41]"

For me, I agree with JJs policy of leaving race out of the report unless it was directly relevant to the crime (hate crime, etc).


You lost me at "blah, blah, blah".

They may as well leave out gender, build, height, and wardrobe, too. And perhaps go a little further and stop reporting on crimes all together. Then no one will get offended.

Posted on: 2010/9/13 14:32
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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To chiefdahill, t-bird and sinik.

The JCPD are investigating the crime. Their primary aim short term is to find witnesses to the attack. Witnesses will likely have enough info from the JJ/JCPD published details to come forward.

At the moment, it's not a statewide, nationwide nor international manhunt. When it becomes such a manhunt, the local, state, federal and international police authorities will publish what details they see fit.

On general local crimes, publishing race generally serves no purpose imo. I'd leave it to the experts. As far as stereotypes go, this isn't my idea - its a well documented issue, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

To quote:

"Regardless of their arguable accuracy, public focus on the disproportionate representation of minorities in violent crime rate statistics has led to both the general racialization of the discussion regarding crime[39] as well as to the emergence of a racial stereotype which characterizes young African American men as "inherently more sinister, evil and dangerous" than the young men of other racial groups, which Katheryn Russell-Brown has dubbed the "criminal black man" stereotype.[40] Research conducted over the last two decades on the public perceptions of crime reveals that 54% of surveyed White Americans believe that African Americans are more prone to violent behavior.[41] However, this perception of African Americans as inherently violent is not limited to the White segment of the population: the National Race and Politics Survey of 1991 recorded more than half of both White Americans and African Americans as being in agreement with the statement "Blacks are aggressive or violent". Further, nationwide research conducted in 2002 and 2004 revealed that the general public holds the belief that African Americans are involved in a greater percentage of violent crime than the official statistics actually indicate.[41]"

For me, I agree with JJs policy of leaving race out of the report unless it was directly relevant to the crime (hate crime, etc).

Posted on: 2010/9/10 1:07
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Boiled_Mussels wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:

I posted your full quote. Simply put, posting race is unnecessary. It doesn't help the JC police find the perps. If they don't feel the need to post race, why do you think you know better?


So you mean to tell me that if someone just gets attacked, mugged or whatever, and the only description is "white t-shirt and a hat" that's enough? What about "hispanic male, approximately 5'9", white t-shirt, shorts, tattoos left arm, seen heading north on Erie St., etc? That would be racist I guess right?


The police publish the info that they need to identify the perps. For potential witnesses, the JC police believe that's all they need to publish to jog potential witnesses memories. If they're not putting out a "America's Most Wanted style all-points-bulletin" why mention race? They're looking for witnesses at the scene, at the time. If you were there at the time, you'd get the JCPD references. If you weren't, it's meaningless. That's a good thing imo.

Publishing race on every single mugging, bar fight, or whatever really achieves nothing except reinforce stereotypes.


There are too many armchair critics on this forum


I respectfully disagree. I understand where you are coming from but this has nothing to do with stereotypes. The person's race is part of that person's description. If your family member was in the hospital would you like to know the person's race that harmed him or her?

Let's not give the JCPD credit for their sensitivity.

Posted on: 2010/9/9 12:48
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:
Publishing race on every single mugging, bar fight, or whatever really achieves nothing except reinforce stereotypes.


Really? Seems like you'd have to have a preconceived notion (or a "stereotype") of who commits crime to think that just by reporting these facts it would "reinforce stereotypes".

Posted on: 2010/9/9 12:44
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:


Publishing race on every single mugging, bar fight, or whatever really achieves nothing except reinforce stereotypes.


There are too many armchair critics on this forum


1. The guy is on a ventilator in critical condition so this is not just another "mugging" or "barfight" ( a point I made in my last post and yet you continue to present this as an ordinary case. You even seemed to object to the expression "vicious thugs"). It's attempted murder and could become a murder investigation

2. The description of the second attacker is useless and wouldnt catch anybody

3. At this point, given that it has been reported that the primary attacker has fled to Vietnam, it would seem very likely that the suspect is from there. Certainly most people would assume that most people from Vietnam are of Asian ethnicity. There is no point in concealing something that people will assume anyway. People will also rightly or wrongly assume that the second attacker is also of Asian origin. If he is still at large and being sought then there can be no reason not to publish his ethnicity if people are going to assume it anyway and if he is not of that ethnicity letting people continue to think he is Asian will only hinder the investigation.

4. If the guy is Asian,.... he is Asian. Publishing facts does not "reinforce stereotypes". Anybody of any race can be a murderer. What "stereotype" are you talking about?

Posted on: 2010/9/9 12:31
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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sinik wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:

Simply put, posting race is unnecessary. It doesn't help the JC police find the perps. If they don't feel the need to post race, why do you think you know better?


The more specific information you post, the more likely you are to find witnesses who saw the actual perp and the less chance you have of wasting police and the public's time with false reports.

If the victim dies (he was reported to be in critical condition on life support so that seems like a possibility), then this will be a murder investigation so this is not just some weekend street brawl we are talking about.

Do you really think the description of the second attacker has any chance of finding witnesses? I'll remind you that all we have been told is that he was wearing a Giants T-shirt, blue jeans and white sneakers. No height, no build, no race.

If this becomes a murder or attempted murder investigation I am sure the police will post a fuller description if they have still not located the second attacker.


I'm not an expert on this. But I'd agree with JCPD's approach - if they think they don't need to publish race, etc, that's their call. There are good reasons not to...

Posted on: 2010/9/9 1:18
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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Boiled_Mussels wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:

I posted your full quote. Simply put, posting race is unnecessary. It doesn't help the JC police find the perps. If they don't feel the need to post race, why do you think you know better?


So you mean to tell me that if someone just gets attacked, mugged or whatever, and the only description is "white t-shirt and a hat" that's enough? What about "hispanic male, approximately 5'9", white t-shirt, shorts, tattoos left arm, seen heading north on Erie St., etc? That would be racist I guess right?


The police publish the info that they need to identify the perps. For potential witnesses, the JC police believe that's all they need to publish to jog potential witnesses memories. If they're not putting out a "America's Most Wanted style all-points-bulletin" why mention race? They're looking for witnesses at the scene, at the time. If you were there at the time, you'd get the JCPD references. If you weren't, it's meaningless. That's a good thing imo.

Publishing race on every single mugging, bar fight, or whatever really achieves nothing except reinforce stereotypes.


There are too many armchair critics on this forum

Posted on: 2010/9/9 1:08
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:

I posted your full quote. Simply put, posting race is unnecessary. It doesn't help the JC police find the perps. If they don't feel the need to post race, why do you think you know better?


So you mean to tell me that if someone just gets attacked, mugged or whatever, and the only description is "white t-shirt and a hat" that's enough? What about "hispanic male, approximately 5'9", white t-shirt, shorts, tattoos left arm, seen heading north on Erie St., etc? That would be racist I guess right?

Posted on: 2010/9/8 14:10
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:

Simply put, posting race is unnecessary. It doesn't help the JC police find the perps. If they don't feel the need to post race, why do you think you know better?


The more specific information you post, the more likely you are to find witnesses who saw the actual perp and the less chance you have of wasting police and the public's time with false reports.

If the victim dies (he was reported to be in critical condition on life support so that seems like a possibility), then this will be a murder investigation so this is not just some weekend street brawl we are talking about.

Do you really think the description of the second attacker has any chance of finding witnesses? I'll remind you that all we have been told is that he was wearing a Giants T-shirt, blue jeans and white sneakers. No height, no build, no race.

If this becomes a murder or attempted murder investigation I am sure the police will post a fuller description if they have still not located the second attacker.

Posted on: 2010/9/8 4:36
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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sinik wrote:

Er, no. Not our logic, YOUR logic. I think you need to explain why if the JJ includes race in the description that "creates a stereotype" but including other details do not.

We know the guy that tried to take over the Discovery Channel building a few days ago was Asian and the guy that shot 32 people at Virginia Tech was Asian. So do we think all Asian people are more likely to go crazy like that? Personally, I don't and don't think other people do. However, YOU, dtjcview, do think that other people will draw those kind of inferences from knowing details of ethnicity of people who commit crimes. I don't know why you would think that unless you, yourself believe that people of a certain ethnicity are more likely to commit crimes.

If you don't think that, what makes you presume other people will think it?


I posted your full quote. Simply put, posting race is unnecessary. It doesn't help the JC police find the perps. If they don't feel the need to post race, why do you think you know better?

Posted on: 2010/9/8 3:10
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:
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sinik wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:

So given your tortured logic, both you and CC think all slim, tall Giant fans of an "unspecified ethnic group" are vicious thugs?


Er, no. Not our logic, YOUR logic. I think you need to explain why if the JJ includes race in the description that "creates a stereotype" but including other details do not.

..........

If you don't think that, what makes you presume other people will think it?


Perhaps because the police and JJ are looking for witnesses, and not create stereotypes. How does the JJ statement create stereotypes? Your logic is twisted... Nope, actually absurd.



You clipped part of my quote. The last sentence of my quote refers to the part that you deleted, not the part you left in.

I am trying to decide whether you really don't understand what is being said or whether you are being dishonest.

Posted on: 2010/9/8 2:41
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Re: Downtown: Man beaten outside Jersey City bar on life support
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dtjcview wrote:

Perhaps because the police and JJ are looking for witnesses, and not create stereotypes. How does the JJ statement create stereotypes? Your logic is twisted... Nope, actually absurd.



Can you really be this dense or are you putting me on?

Putting the ethnicity of the perps in the description no more creates a stereotype than any of the other items in the description....

You said you understand what reductio ad absurdum means but you keep demonstrating that clearly you don't.

Have you got it, now? (I doubt it)

Posted on: 2010/9/8 2:25
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