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Re: Tell Trader Joe's to come to Jersey City!
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Awesome. A thread on Trader Joe's winds up covering the arts, chemistry, and dietary law.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 22:11
"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster

Oh, wait, there is one: The Jersey Sting.
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brewster wrote:

I completely understand your POV, but this is "belief" territory, whether religious or dietary doesn't matter. Hindus don't eat meat products, Observant Jews don't eat rennet cheese, and non-vegan vegetarians just don't want a by-product of slaughter in their food. Everyone chooses where to draw the line in the sand, some at milk, some at fish, some at fowl, all the way to those who will eat free range beef but not feedlot beef. You could argue any of them to death, but so what?


Nicely put Brewster, I agree. The rub is that where lines driven by any belief system are drawn, irony thrives, and irony is funny stuff. I might crack wise about Trader Joe's, but I'd shop there tomorrow if a store magically appeared.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 18:50
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Frank_M wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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Frank_M wrote
Unless you can demonstrate why it’s not an absurdly disproportionate concern, I cannot help but roll my eyes at a rennet boycott.


Other than the fact that rennet is obtained at slaughter while milk is not, Kosher keepers also are interested in whether rennet is used. My observation, and advice at a serious organic cheese counter, is almost all domestic non-artisanal cheeses are rennet free, even if they don't have a kosher hechscher.


I get that, but calves are not slaughtered with the primary intent of obtaining rennet from their stomachs—they are slaughtered for more valuable reasons—just as dairy cattle experience the same lives no matter how we obtain the necessary enzymes for cheese making. An individual’s concern for animals would therefore be much better demonstrated, and literally be more effective, through boycotting milk and cheese products, not rennet. What happens to dairy cattle once they stop producing unnaturally large quantities of milk? More importantly, what conditions to the majority of dairy cattle experience while alive? Where is the greater suffering?

It strikes me that an aversion to rennet, but not cheese, is like worrying about lead poisoning after being shot.

And yes, I also realize there are irrational/religious reasons, but little of that has anything to do with a concern for animal welfare. Edicts drafted by ancient male chauvinists, whose bones have long since turned to dust, are rarely helpful for anything other than establishing obedience.

I enjoy dairy products very much, but I don’t kid myself about the painful reality that my choices are responsible for, or that I could make it go away through boycotting a product that isn't responsible for the situation.


I completely understand your POV, but this is "belief" territory, whether religious or dietary doesn't matter. Hindus don't eat meat products, Observant Jews don't eat rennet cheese, and non-vegan vegetarians just don't want a by-product of slaughter in their food. Everyone chooses where to draw the line in the sand, some at milk, some at fish, some at fowl, all the way to those who will eat free range beef but not feedlot beef. You could argue any of them to death, but so what?

Posted on: 2012/5/31 17:57
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Frank_M wrote
Unless you can demonstrate why it’s not an absurdly disproportionate concern, I cannot help but roll my eyes at a rennet boycott.


Other than the fact that rennet is obtained at slaughter while milk is not, Kosher keepers also are interested in whether rennet is used. My observation, and advice at a serious organic cheese counter, is almost all domestic non-artisanal cheeses are rennet free, even if they don't have a kosher hechscher.


I get that, but calves are not slaughtered with the primary intent of obtaining rennet from their stomachs—they are slaughtered for more valuable reasons—just as dairy cattle experience the same lives no matter how we obtain the necessary enzymes for cheese making. An individual’s concern for animals would therefore be much better demonstrated, and literally be more effective, through boycotting milk and cheese products, not rennet. What happens to dairy cattle once they stop producing unnaturally large quantities of milk? More importantly, what conditions to the majority of dairy cattle experience while alive? Where is the greater suffering?

It strikes me that an aversion to rennet, but not cheese, is like worrying about lead poisoning after being shot.

And yes, I also realize there are irrational/religious reasons, but little of that has anything to do with a concern for animal welfare. Edicts drafted by ancient male chauvinists, whose bones have long since turned to dust, are rarely helpful for anything other than establishing obedience.

I enjoy dairy products very much, but I don’t kid myself about the painful reality that my choices are responsible for, or that I could make it go away through boycotting a product that isn't responsible for the situation.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 16:58
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Frank_M wrote
Unless you can demonstrate why it’s not an absurdly disproportionate concern, I cannot help but roll my eyes at a rennet boycott.


Other than the fact that rennet is obtained at slaughter while milk is not, Kosher keepers also are interested in whether rennet is used. My observation, and advice at a serious organic cheese counter, is almost all domestic non-artisanal cheeses are rennet free, even if they don't have a kosher hechscher.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 15:56
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Unless you abstain from dairy products altogether, the source of cheese-making enzymes should only be important if you care more about precious arbitrary values than the lives of animals. It’s a wildly disproportionate concern. In this case, the unpleasant reality of milk production is the five-hundred pound gorilla in the room, not a milliliter of rennet.


Wow Frank! Assume much? Judgmental much?



Unless you can demonstrate why it’s not an absurdly disproportionate concern, I cannot help but roll my eyes at a rennet boycott.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 14:26
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Ooops, that was the Canadian ingredients. Here is the U.S. version.

http://www.foodfacts.com/NutritionFac ... acaroni-Cheese-12-oz/9559

Quote:
Milk Skim, Macaroni Blanched Product ( Water, Semolina, Egg(s) Whites ), Cheese Cheddar ( Milk Cultured, Salt, Enzyme(s), Annatto ) Added for Color, Cheese Cheddar Club Cheese ( Cheese Cheddar (Milk Cultured, Salt, Enzyme(s)), Water, Salt, Annatto ) Added for Color, Wheat Flour Bleached, Margarine (Soybean(s) Oil Liquid, Soybean(s) Oil Partially Hydrogenated, Water, Salt, Soybean(s) Oil Hydrogenated, Vegetable(s) Mono and Diglycerides, Flavor(s) Natural, Soy Lecithin, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Palmitate), Soybean(s) Oil, Salt, Xanthan Gum


Hydrogenated oils! Yuck!

Posted on: 2012/5/31 14:13
"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster

Oh, wait, there is one: The Jersey Sting.
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I'll be what spins 4thandjerz's wheels is the addition of MALTODEXTRIN, an umami (glutamate) source similar to MSG.


You can't spell maltodextrin without "mmm mmm mmm!"

I'm not endorsing it or even defending it. I simply like Stouffer's Mac and Cheese and I'm glad to have an easy supply. Though perhaps I should just get myself an intravenous maltrodextrin drip and cut out the middle man.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 14:03
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Unless you abstain from dairy products altogether, the source of cheese-making enzymes should only be important if you care more about precious arbitrary values than the lives of animals. It’s a wildly disproportionate concern. In this case, the unpleasant reality of milk production is the five-hundred pound gorilla in the room, not a milliliter of rennet.


Wow Frank! Assume much? Judgmental much?


Quote:
TJs has stuff that isn't great for you either. If you buy their frozen meals, it's not any better than the stuff you get at the supermarket IMO.


Snowflake20-I have never seen chemistry like ingredients on TJs products...even the frozen stuff. All though they have foods that are not kind to the waistline....i trust that after eating them....i won't glow in the dark.


Bobblehead-Thanks. Apparently, Stouffers does not know what is or isn't on the back of their own product....not a great sign...after having called them. If, i do see the mac and cheese labeled with the specific kind of enzyme.....then of course will give them a shot....for science of course.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 13:43
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For example, this site lists maltodextrin in their ingredients that OFTEN contain or produce processed free glutamic acid:

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/hiddensources.html

But it says nothing of the amount, and the net they have cast seems to be pretty wide. What I have read is that some glutamic acid made be present as a result of processing, but if it is there at all, that amount is fairly small, just a trace, as the protein content is low.

Still, that said, I try to avoid any foods that have processed ingredients.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 13:15
"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster

Oh, wait, there is one: The Jersey Sting.
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Sorry. Home made mac and cheese rules.

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Asif wrote:
Bobblehead is that the list for Stouffers Mac and Cheese? When, i spoke with their rep....they said they dnt list the exact type of enzymes. So, it might not be on the box at my local supermarket. Sheesh!


Taken from: http://www.nestle.ca/en/products/bran ... fers/macaroni+_cheese.htm

Brewster, it has been ages since I did any chemistry, but I thought corn maltodextrin is a glucose (a polysaccharide, a starch), not a glutamate (an amino acid). The first is an energy source, the second has more to do with neuro-transmission.

I've done some reading around just now, and there seems to be some woo woo talk about how "maltodextrose is MSG" but elsewhere I've read that this is a misconception. Can you add some clarity here?

Posted on: 2012/5/31 13:07
"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster

Oh, wait, there is one: The Jersey Sting.
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Whatever, there is nothing like processed Mac & Cheese. I prefer Kraft. Yum. I've tried making it myself and it's not as good.

TJs has stuff that isn't great for you either. If you buy their frozen meals, it's not any better than the stuff you get at the supermarket IMO.

And TJs is great, but it doesn't hold a candle to Stew Leonard's.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 12:40
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Bobblehead is that the list for Stouffers Mac and Cheese? When, i spoke with their rep....they said they dnt list the exact type of enzymes. So, it might not be on the box at my local supermarket. Sheesh!


Unless you abstain from dairy products altogether, the source of cheese-making enzymes should only be important if you care more about precious arbitrary values than the lives of animals. It’s a wildly disproportionate concern. In this case, the unpleasant reality of milk production is the five-hundred pound gorilla in the room, not a milliliter of rennet.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 11:48
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Bobblehead wrote:
4thandjerz, fly your Stouffer's freak flag high! Fly it proud! If you have a thing for it, that's your bag.

Quote:
Ingredients
WATER, COOKED MACARONI PASTA (WATER, SEMOLINA WHEAT FLOUR, WHEAT GLUTEN), CHEDDAR AND COLD PACK CHEDDAR CHEESES ([MILK INGREDIENTS, BACTERIAL CULTURES, SALT, MICROBIAL ENZYMES, COLOUR], WATER, SALT, COLOUR), MODIFIED MILK INGREDIENTS, SOY OIL, WHEAT FLOUR, SALT, FLAVOUR (CORN MALTODEXTRIN, FLAVOURS, MILK INGREDIENTS), XANTHAN GUM, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE.


It has a few more ingredients than I would like, but not horrible.

TJ's does an awful lot of work putting together their packaged foods. It is what they do best--offer a healthier, better-tasting alternative. I am addicted to their masala burgers. I am going to try making my own, though, as I've made the trip twice recently only to have them not be in stock.

http://www.dailygarnish.com/2011/01/h ... table-masala-burgers.html


I'll be what spins 4thandjerz's wheels is the addition of MALTODEXTRIN, an umami (glutamate) source similar to MSG.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 11:27
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4thandjerz wrote:
-Breyer's Slow Churned ice cream

A lot of the same folks still work there, and the new ones they've brought in are super nice.

(FWIW, if we're voting on what new store to get, I love Trader Joe's and I love Jersey City and I love everyone but I'd like a fish market -- good fresh fish is the one thing I feel I can't get within walking distance)

I think you mean Dreyer's Slow Churned not Breyer's. Dryer's is the same company as Edy's. By the way Breyer's has Double Churned. To me Breyer's is the better/best packaged store bought ice cream.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 11:18
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Bobblehead is that the list for Stouffers Mac and Cheese? When, i spoke with their rep....they said they dnt list the exact type of enzymes. So, it might not be on the box at my local supermarket. Sheesh!

Posted on: 2012/5/31 11:15
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4thandjerz, fly your Stouffer's freak flag high! Fly it proud! If you have a thing for it, that's your bag.

Quote:
Ingredients
WATER, COOKED MACARONI PASTA (WATER, SEMOLINA WHEAT FLOUR, WHEAT GLUTEN), CHEDDAR AND COLD PACK CHEDDAR CHEESES ([MILK INGREDIENTS, BACTERIAL CULTURES, SALT, MICROBIAL ENZYMES, COLOUR], WATER, SALT, COLOUR), MODIFIED MILK INGREDIENTS, SOY OIL, WHEAT FLOUR, SALT, FLAVOUR (CORN MALTODEXTRIN, FLAVOURS, MILK INGREDIENTS), XANTHAN GUM, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE.


It has a few more ingredients than I would like, but not horrible.

TJ's does an awful lot of work putting together their packaged foods. It is what they do best--offer a healthier, better-tasting alternative. I am addicted to their masala burgers. I am going to try making my own, though, as I've made the trip twice recently only to have them not be in stock.

http://www.dailygarnish.com/2011/01/h ... table-masala-burgers.html

Posted on: 2012/5/31 11:05
"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster

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Id luv to give the Stouffers a chance just once. But according to the folks at Stouffers...they have many different suppliers, "and with the agreement in place with them...they don't have to tell the company(Stouffers) if the enzymes in the cheese is animal, microbial or vegetable. It could be any of them. Sounds pretty ridicoulous....but true.

Kraft mac and cheese(which i miss since giving up processed junk) is kosher at least..so at least i was able to partake....no Stouffers product is kosher...in case anyone is wondering.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 10:57
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brewster wrote:

I don't think you're being mocked for lovin the mac/cheese, it's the idea of buying it frozen rather than getting some elbows & quality cheddar and making it fresh & better yourself in 15 minutes for a fraction the price. Frozen mac & cheese is almost as sad as those frozen PB&J's.

Personally, my frozen addiction is Ling Ling potstickers, but they're easily available and I've tried to make them better myself and can't.


Well, exactly! I've made my own mac & cheese, I've bought it from many restaurants, and I've had lots of different packaged versions. They're all good in their own way. But there's something about Stouffer's that does it for me. (And FWIW, it's only something I eat when I'm dining alone -- it's not like I buy a half-dozen of them and call it dinner for the family.)

It's like french fries: can you make fries at home that are better than McDonald's? Of course, and I do! But can you make better McDonald's-style french fries at home? No, only Ronald and the Fry Guys can make those. Perhaps others don't see Stouffer's M&C as being a distinctive flavor, but for me, it has that special magic that can't be imitated. Everyone has their own version of this... White Castle comes to mind. It's not my thing, but for a lot of people -- plenty of whom love fancy food and gourmet burgers -- there's only one way to satisfy that craving.

Posted on: 2012/5/31 8:46
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owlie wrote: Woo hoo! "-Stouffer's frozen mac and cheese, both large and small sizes" (you have got to be kidding)
Jeez, is there nothing one can say on this board without being flamed? I happen to like my Stouffer's. And until Key Foods took over from C-Town, it was surprisingly hard to find around here. Mock if you will. I can't hear you, because I'm up to my ears in cheesy deliciousness.


I don't think you're being mocked for lovin the mac/cheese, it's the idea of buying it frozen rather than getting some elbows & quality cheddar and making it fresh & better yourself in 15 minutes for a fraction the price. Frozen mac & cheese is almost as sad as those frozen PB&J's.

Personally, my frozen addiction is Ling Ling potstickers, but they're easily available and I've tried to make them better myself and can't.

Posted on: 2012/5/30 22:42
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There isn't even an Aldi in Jersey City yet... I think JC is much more likely to get that first before it's fancy sibling

Posted on: 2012/5/30 22:18
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owlie wrote: Woo hoo! "-Stouffer's frozen mac and cheese, both large and small sizes" (you have got to be kidding)
Jeez, is there nothing one can say on this board without being flamed? I happen to like my Stouffer's. And until Key Foods took over from C-Town, it was surprisingly hard to find around here. Mock if you will. I can't hear you, because I'm up to my ears in cheesy deliciousness.

Posted on: 2012/5/30 21:21
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A great deal of the stuff they sell at TJs is natural or without additives and chemicals. All TJ branded products are organic. Also, they have a practice in place to encourage sustainable products. Not too long ago they signed on to carry sustainable fish only in their stores.

Also, the word "processed" is tricky. Cut up veggies would fall under that definition....so one has to be careful how you apply it. And i agree in too many instants "processed" basically means junk but I do think TJs has a vast array of healthy products.

Posted on: 2012/5/30 17:31
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If you mock Stouffer’s, you mock half of the prepackaged, processed crap they sell at Trader Joe’s.

Posted on: 2012/5/30 16:53
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When Trader Joe's gets here I am going to personally request that they stock STOUFFERS!

Posted on: 2012/5/30 16:32
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C-Town's operating procedure for its locations seems to me to be:

(1) Open a location in a somewhat sketchy neighborhood other supermarket chains won't serve.

(2) Buy cheap and nearly spoiled inventory.

(3) Sell inventory at prices that are ridiculously high considering (a) the income level of the locals and (b) the fact that it is cheap and nearly spoiled.

I have lived near three C-Towns in my life, and they all seem to share the same business plan. I would travel further to get to, say, a D'Agostino or A&P only to find out that the quality was better and the prices were lower.

I am hoping Key Foods improves on that plan.

Stouffer's!!!

Posted on: 2012/5/30 16:24
"Someday a book will be written on how this city can be broke in the midst of all this development." ---Brewster

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STOUFFER'S!!!! LMFAO

Posted on: 2012/5/30 16:13
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Woo hoo! "-Stouffer's frozen mac and cheese, both large and small sizes" (you have got to be kidding)

Posted on: 2012/5/30 15:42
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Just slightly off topic... The C-Town at 3rd and Jersey has pretty much finished converting to Key Foods and they've added a lot more selection and a lot of new things that are desirable to yuppies/hipsters/myself. Here are a few things that I was pleasantly surprised to find there (and that C-Town did not carry -- the old owners were really nice but they just weren't investing in their inventory):

-fresh, shelled edamame
-Stouffer's frozen mac and cheese, both large and small sizes
-sugar-free popsicles
-watercress
-sugar-free ketchup
-Bob's Red Mill
-Meyer's Clean Day
-Breyer's Slow Churned ice cream

A lot of the same folks still work there, and the new ones they've brought in are super nice.

(FWIW, if we're voting on what new store to get, I love Trader Joe's and I love Jersey City and I love everyone but I'd like a fish market -- good fresh fish is the one thing I feel I can't get within walking distance)

Posted on: 2012/5/30 14:52
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It's true. TJ's was way cheaper than my local C-Town in Brooklyn. It was out of the way but sometimes I would go there because I could get much better quality for way less money. Seriously, 2-buck chuck. All I have to say.

Posted on: 2012/5/28 2:25
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