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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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so basically, affordable housing as it applies to non-criminal, likely minority residents, is a no-go downtown and should be moved to the heights.

but affordable housing for artists (a la powerhouse), which are generally hipsters, and (probably) white, is ok downtown?

i never understood the disconnect (not just on jclist, but in general) regarding the PAD. either i didnt understand fully how the deal with the PAD was set up - my understanding is you had a bunch of poor artists living in the area, and then the whole area was being redeveloped into expensive housing. as part of the deal, the artists were given low rent apartments so they could stay in their homes. this is ok by most or all who read about it.

on the other hand, you have poor, mostly minority residents of an area, which also gets redeveloped into expensive housing. it is not ok for them to remain in their downtown homes, and should be shipped out to other parts of the city because 'well that's just the way it works - they should go make more money if they want to stay there'.


Posted on: 2009/5/1 14:51
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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I have always thought that AFFORDABLE housing was much preferable to UNAFFORDABLE housing.
I think many millions facing eviction and foreclosure might agree.

Posted on: 2009/5/1 14:34
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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" It would be nice if Jersey City could build similar buildings in decent neighborhoods around the city."

Great! Lets build them in the heights please. It's a great neighborhood with lower crime rates then downtown. JerseyCityNJ, what's with the love affair with affordable housing?

Posted on: 2009/5/1 13:14
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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tommyc_37 wrote:
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crushthedemoniac wrote:
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tommyc_37 wrote:
I don't understand people like crushthedemoniac. I'd rather deal with "generic hipsters and yuppies" over "generic crackheads and gangsters" like Downtown JC used to be. If I have to deal with something generic, I'll opt for the generic types that don't mug me, attack me, or break into my car.

Crushthedemoniac, I'm not sure if you are a resident of Downtown JC or not, but neighborhoods change. If you're looking for "old school JC" maybe you should relocate to Greenville, I'm sure that neighborhood still has the vibe that you're looking for.


Tommyc, like Ive stated before , I dont support thug behavior and dont wish Downtown was "ghetto". What I would like is more affordable housing(not low income), and less crap that would make this place look like Williamsburg or something of that nature.



Well that could work in Fantasy Land, but in Real Life Land there is a positive correlation between affordable housing and thug behavior.

Like I said, you should look into Greenville. Bergen-Lafayette maybe? The things you are looking for can be found elsewhere in Jersey City. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to stay Downtown. Neighborhoods change, that's life, dude...

Actually Hoboken has many affordable housing sites and the majority of those residents are not involved in thug behavior. Just type in "Applied Housing Hoboken NJ" in google maps and see how many sites they have. Most people when they ask for affordable housing they are speaking of the type of buildings Applied Housing runs. All those buildings are well kept and rent is adjusted by income. You must pass a criminal back round check to be a resident also. It would be nice if Jersey City could build similar buildings in decent neighborhoods around the city.

Posted on: 2009/5/1 6:05
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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re: first post jclist is worst for this city

Posted on: 2009/5/1 2:47
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Re: JC hipsters
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Of course you do.


Douché, GG. Well done.

(you have no idea, but still...).

Posted on: 2009/4/30 20:29
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LOL! "I wish for more allowance".

Posted on: 2009/4/30 20:19
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Of course you do.

Posted on: 2009/4/30 20:13
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O
M
G

I totally know that guy. Yikes.

YIKES!!!!!!!

Posted on: 2009/4/30 20:11
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handlebar mustache or handlbra mustache

Posted on: 2009/4/30 20:07
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JC hipsters
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Check out the 8th guy on the bottom with the handlebar mustache. I'm sure you've seen him in multiple bars in JC. Classic, you can still see some coke in his nose:
http://lookatthisfuckinghipster.tumblr.com/page/2

Posted on: 2009/4/30 19:55
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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"Hipsters" (aka young people with backgrounds in/a love for the arts), turned the once shit-hole Williamsburg into a one of the biggest art/music/etc scenes in the country. HOLY #OOPS# WHAT A TERRIBLE THING TO DO. Anti-hipster BS is silly. The hip cafes, sushi shops and bars are turning the once shit-hole Jersey City into one of the greatest places in the tri-state area to live.

Posted on: 2008/12/31 0:07
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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Papi are you joking me? How long did you live in the 'Boken? Didn't you ever heard any Spanglish, never buyed some smokes from the Nepalese in his bodega on 2nd & Monroe, bought some pollo at Big Banner? Ah, those were the days.

I was referring specifically to two streets, if you think Downtown/Newark Ave isn't changing more than the other wards in JC, then I'm just gonna close my eye and turn away.

"pockets of diversity" hahaa does that = "projects"?


Don't call me Papi.

Yes, I was referring to the "pockets" you mentioned: western and north-western Hoboken, mostly. But those pockets are even smaller against the back-drop of such a small town.

As to JC, downtown is obviously moving faster than the other neighborhoods. I'm not sure what you're getting at, there.

Posted on: 2008/12/20 3:58
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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alanwright wrote:
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Ha ha ha as if none of you remember that Washington Street in 1988 looked just like Newark Ave does today!!


Hobo was a not-terribly diverse town of low rises just over 1 sq mile. & maybe only 40,000 ppl. Historically it was white, german, irish, italian. Etc. Ethnic euros, with a few pockets of diversity.

JC is a very diverse city over 15sq miles, and 250,000 ppl. In the past and now, it's extremely diverse and welcoming to new residents of all backgrounds, except apparenty for white graphic designers. Ha.

For many of my young friends and collagues who rent or own here - Ecuadorian, Filipino, Italian, South Asian, Anglo-British, Puerto Rican, Polish... Etc... JC is great b/c it's not Hoboken. And it won't be. It's the real-life alternative to that homogeneous, absurd town.

And fortunately, many attractive young professional women feel safe here, so it's a viable alternative to hobo.

P.S. Soon to have a bicycle shop downtown (on Grove /Manila), so no need to go to Bayonne or Hobo.

"pockets of diversity" hahaa does that = "projects"?
- Loser


Jersey City still has pockets of ethnic diversity. Some of the street names still reflect this. The Heights used to be very German in the first half of the 20th century then became more Irish during the 60's and 70's. The last wave of Italian immigration brought some Italians over into the Heights. You could see some pockets of Italians and Italian Americans near the German built St. Nick's Parish. Downtown was mostly Italian (The Village), Irish the (Horseshoe District), and Polish (Gammon Town). The area behind White Castle near St. Ann's Polish Church was predominantly Polish. South of that area was Italian in the Marion section. Journal Square had a mixed community of old money, a large Jewish section, intellects. Doctors Row went from St. Peters College to Lincoln Park. Greenville was very Irish, with Italians near the south west end of J.C. Today it isn't very different. There are still pockets of nationalities; you can see this with the interactions within the community. We tend to gravitate towards those we can communicate comfortably with. Such as food establishments, real estate, and banking. It is almost as if we have blinders on.

Posted on: 2008/12/20 1:38
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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chiefdahill wrote:
If you are white you are either a yuppie or hipster. There is no middle ground... at least that is what I learned from reading jclist.

I read anti yuppie or anti hipster as "go home whitey"


LOL -- what if I am home?

Posted on: 2008/12/19 23:58
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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Ha ha ha as if none of you remember that Washington Street in 1988 looked just like Newark Ave does today!!


Hobo was a not-terribly diverse town of low rises just over 1 sq mile. & maybe only 40,000 ppl. Historically it was white, german, irish, italian. Etc. Ethnic euros, with a few pockets of diversity.

JC is a very diverse city over 15sq miles, and 250,000 ppl. In the past and now, it's extremely diverse and welcoming to new residents of all backgrounds, except apparenty for white graphic designers. Ha.

For many of my young friends and collagues who rent or own here - Ecuadorian, Filipino, Italian, South Asian, Anglo-British, Puerto Rican, Polish... Etc... JC is great b/c it's not Hoboken. And it won't be. It's the real-life alternative to that homogeneous, absurd town.

And fortunately, many attractive young professional women feel safe here, so it's a viable alternative to hobo.

P.S. Soon to have a bicycle shop downtown (on Grove /Manila), so no need to go to Bayonne or Hobo.


Papi are you joking me? How long did you live in the 'Boken? Didn't you ever heard any Spanglish, never buyed some smokes from the Nepalese in his bodega on 2nd & Monroe, bought some pollo at Big Banner? Ah, those were the days.
I was referring specifically to two streets, if you think Downtown/Newark Ave isn't changing more than the other wards in JC, then I'm just gonna close my eye and turn away.

"pockets of diversity" hahaa does that = "projects"?

- Loser

Posted on: 2008/12/19 23:52
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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I'd rather see the hipsters than the luxury condos. I own my house, but who is to say that some developer won't make a "campaign contribution" and wow - suddenly my neighborhood is blighted to make way for more luxury condos! Yes, there are laws about these things, but we all know how that works, don't we?

Yes, the average working Joe & Jane homeowner should be concerned, but not about the guys in the horn rimmed glasses.

Posted on: 2008/12/19 19:10
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Ha ha ha as if none of you remember that Washington Street in 1988 looked just like Newark Ave does today!!


Hobo was a not-terribly diverse town of low rises just over 1 sq mile. & maybe only 40,000 ppl. Historically it was white, german, irish, italian. Etc. Ethnic euros, with a few pockets of diversity.

JC is a very diverse city over 15sq miles, and 250,000 ppl. In the past and now, it's extremely diverse and welcoming to new residents of all backgrounds, except apparenty for white graphic designers. Ha.

For many of my young friends and collagues who rent or own here - Ecuadorian, Filipino, Italian, South Asian, Anglo-British, Puerto Rican, Polish... Etc... JC is great b/c it's not Hoboken. And it won't be. It's the real-life alternative to that homogeneous, absurd town.

And fortunately, many attractive young professional women feel safe here, so it's a viable alternative to hobo.

P.S. Soon to have a bicycle shop downtown (on Grove /Manila), so no need to go to Bayonne or Hobo.

Posted on: 2008/12/17 14:19
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Jeebus wrote:
This thread is very funny and makes me glad to be too old to complain about new neighbors based on their attire or means of making a living. It's not like they are a bunch of gangsters robbing and stealing.

One thing that bears mentioning is that the desire to live somewhere that is both "gritty" and has improved "quality of life" is less likely to happen than my desire to commute across the river in 3 minutes with a jet pack. Grow up.

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crushthedemoniac wrote:

[snip]I never wanted it to stay a dump but rather improve the quality of life and keep its gritty charm. [snip]


Jeebus, The thread came up and I had an opinion on it. Im not gonna lie and say that I love the idea of luxury condos and hipster/yuppies taking over the city. Its not something I loose sleep over at night or plan on fighting or protesting, just something I had a strong opinion on. Please dont tell me to grow up either , it has noting to do with maturity.

Posted on: 2008/12/17 5:53
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This thread is very funny and makes me glad to be too old to complain about new neighbors based on their attire or means of making a living. It's not like they are a bunch of gangsters robbing and stealing.

One thing that bears mentioning is that the desire to live somewhere that is both "gritty" and has improved "quality of life" is less likely to happen than my desire to commute across the river in 3 minutes with a jet pack. Grow up.

Quote:

crushthedemoniac wrote:

[snip]I never wanted it to stay a dump but rather improve the quality of life and keep its gritty charm. [snip]

Posted on: 2008/12/17 5:07
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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crushthedemoniac wrote:

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I simply would hate to see Downtown and any other area of JC turn into Hoboken or something of that nature.


The ghastly spectre of Hobokenization! That would be a horrible thing. It's a cultural wasteland: a playground for 20yr old college girls and 35 yr old Gordon Gekko wannabees. Some decent restaurants and stores, I guess, but I'm not too sure about even that.

Anyway, I think it's not going to happen. Jersey City is much too big, spread out, diverse, and lived-in (already owner-occupied) to become hobokey. JC wouldn't lose its soul so easily.

But in 10 years... a few pockets could. Newport is already quite boring, so I hope that neighborhood bears the brunt.


Ha ha ha as if none of you remember that Washington Street in 1988 looked just like Newark Ave does today!!

- Loser

Posted on: 2008/12/17 3:21
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If you are white you are either a yuppie or hipster. There is no middle ground... at least that is what I learned from reading jclist.

I read anti yuppie or anti hipster as "go home whitey"


I'm white and I am not a yuppie or hipster. When I make my argument it has nothing to to with race.

Posted on: 2008/12/16 21:18
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If you are white you are either a yuppie or hipster. There is no middle ground... at least that is what I learned from reading jclist.

I read anti yuppie or anti hipster as "go home whitey"

Posted on: 2008/12/16 20:54
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Easier said than done. Many people did clean up their neighborhoods, problem was that other people with more money came in and took over their neighborhoods. That helped the housing bubble of the last couple of years which was caused because many of these people who were priced out of their apartments went to buy houses elsewhere so that they wouldn't get kicked to the curb. Pretty soon you will start hearing the degentrification being said a lot. The gentrification of JC and many other NYC metro areas has screeched to a halt since most of these
"yuppies/professionals" were employed by the financial & real estate industries who were helping those people buy homes. Gentrification was a great big Ponzi scheme that was helped by the dot com & housing bubbles, and like those bubbles it has also popped!


I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. People continue to move to Jersey City. Young people and familes continue to move and stay in cities as they loathe the burbs. Jersey City also has hardly been a bubble compaired to NYC. Prices in Jersey City have not hardly shot up compared to the likes of NYC and have been holding strong in downtown.

You tend to have a chip on your shoulder about yuppies/professionals. I bet a bunch of those so called professionals are teachers, and entry level/operations based white collar individuals who can hardly be classifed as yuppies but since they are white and wear a buton down shirt and slacks to work you pigeon hole them. Get a grip already. A lot of these same people are starting out in life/or don't make too much money ie: teachers, office workers, so they move to where they can afford. Not every so called yuppie or "white person with a job" is loaded for your information.

You can pray for degentrification or "whitey leaving" if it makes you feel better but I'm sorry I just don't see it happening.



*Gasp*, are you suggesting that all white people are stereotyped as yuppies? I'm shocked, I thought only minorities were stereotyped against!

(sarcasm, of course)

Good post, Chiefdahill.

Posted on: 2008/12/16 20:44
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Easier said than done. Many people did clean up their neighborhoods, problem was that other people with more money came in and took over their neighborhoods. That helped the housing bubble of the last couple of years which was caused because many of these people who were priced out of their apartments went to buy houses elsewhere so that they wouldn't get kicked to the curb. Pretty soon you will start hearing the degentrification being said a lot. The gentrification of JC and many other NYC metro areas has screeched to a halt since most of these
"yuppies/professionals" were employed by the financial & real estate industries who were helping those people buy homes. Gentrification was a great big Ponzi scheme that was helped by the dot com & housing bubbles, and like those bubbles it has also popped!


I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. People continue to move to Jersey City. Young people and familes continue to move and stay in cities as they loathe the burbs. Jersey City also has hardly been a bubble compaired to NYC. Prices in Jersey City have not hardly shot up compared to the likes of NYC and have been holding strong in downtown.

You tend to have a chip on your shoulder about yuppies/professionals. I bet a bunch of those so called professionals are teachers, and entry level/operations based white collar individuals who can hardly be classifed as yuppies but since they are white and wear a buton down shirt and slacks to work you pigeon hole them. Get a grip already. A lot of these same people are starting out in life/or don't make too much money ie: teachers, office workers, so they move to where they can afford. Not every so called yuppie or "white person with a job" is loaded for your information.

You can pray for degentrification or "whitey leaving" if it makes you feel better but I'm sorry I just don't see it happening.


Posted on: 2008/12/16 19:11
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i'd like to bitch slap tommyc with with my calloused hands and see if he would survive. where do you fruitcakes come from?


Cute.

Posted on: 2008/12/16 15:37
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While I realize that my replies seem harsher than they were intended to be, I can't totally buy into the victim mentality. And while I know that it's easier said than done for some of the older residents to work their butts off in order to stay...they have the means to do so if they REALLY wanted or needed to.

Downtown JC used to be sh*t. The "old time residents" didn't exactly take care of their neighborhoods. Anybody remember the denizens and the drugs in V V P ?? So, people similar to myself came in when they saw an opportunity (this is as American as apple pie) and bought up brownstones, and actually fixed them up. Gee, suddenly a nice historic neighborhood is A) safer, B) nicer to look at.

It's sad, of course, in theory, that some good citizens got priced out of their neighborhood. But they don't have to leave Jersey City.

Urban neighborhoods have always changed. How many Brooklyn, Queens, or Bronx neighborhoods that were once VERY well-kept Irish and Italian neighborhoods are now complete ghettos? And vice versa?

The day that this DOESN'T happen is the day that capitalism dies...

I'm sorry to seem harsh in these posts, but the victim mentality doesn't work on me...

Posted on: 2008/12/16 15:35
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crushthedemoniac wrote:

Quote:

I simply would hate to see Downtown and any other area of JC turn into Hoboken or something of that nature.


The ghastly spectre of Hobokenization! That would be a horrible thing. It's a cultural wasteland: a playground for 20yr old college girls and 35 yr old Gordon Gekko wannabees. Some decent restaurants and stores, I guess, but I'm not too sure about even that.

Anyway, I think it's not going to happen. Jersey City is much too big, spread out, diverse, and lived-in (already owner-occupied) to become hobokey. JC wouldn't lose its soul so easily.

But in 10 years... a few pockets could. Newport is already quite boring, so I hope that neighborhood bears the brunt.

Posted on: 2008/12/16 6:58
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tommyc_37 wrote:
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Honestly, if people don't want to be priced out of their neighborhood, they have the freedom to get a higher paying job, or go back to school to GET a higher paying job, so that they can afford to stay in their neighborhood that they love. If they're that passionate about the neighborhood, they should be motivated to do whatever it takes to stay. This is a capitalist society...the strong are the ones who survive.


I disagree in a general way with CRUSHTHEDEMONIAC's yuppification fear-mongering, but I think your position is what s/he's talking about in terms of ignorant. It's a bit rude to blame the anonymous masses for their plight, and slam them for not pulling themselves up by the bootstraps. Whether it's a lack of motivation or practical opportunity, I don't know or care, but it's a short-sighted way to couch the issue It's not really a fair position to take, because those freedoms are not so easily attainable, practically speaking.

Low income people can take generations to spark change in their own lives... consider it a failure of federal, state, and local urban policy priorities... so let's be realistic about changing their neighborhood. But, knowing that ours is a ruthless society... perhaps that should give a hint as to the hard work that needs to be done to stay above water. many are hard-working, but either lack the social safety net or credit history to support their need or opportunity. Add to that the predatory lending, slumlords, industrial and health problems... it can be a dire situation.

Anyway, local low income people could (have) take(n) a larger stake in their communities to grasp, exert, and extend their influence on civic life... and create a more viable community for themselves. Often this is done through the churches (faith-based) or civil groups (community organizing). Saul Alinsky's work and the Industrial Areas Foundation is one such model.

However, I do think the changes in this town could have been anticipated 25 years ago for those who had the means or the wherewithal to consider it. A brownstone then could be $20,000 in adjusted dollars, and many Hudson County Originals and new folks bought in at that time.

Posted on: 2008/12/16 6:41
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Re: What's worse for JC, Luxury Condos or Hipsters?
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tommyc_37 wrote:
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crushthedemoniac wrote:
Oh and Tommyc, I really dont think most of Harlem is pleased about gentrification and taking it in stride. Its no secret its constantly in the Post and Daily news


Honestly, if people don't want to be priced out of their neighborhood, they have the freedom to get a higher paying job, or go back to school to GET a higher paying job, so that they can afford to stay in their neighborhood that they love. If they're that passionate about the neighborhood, they should be motivated to do whatever it takes to stay. This is a capitalist society...the strong are the ones who survive.


Easier said than done. Many people did clean up their neighborhoods, problem was that other people with more money came in and took over their neighborhoods. That helped the housing bubble of the last couple of years which was caused because many of these people who were priced out of their apartments went to buy houses elsewhere so that they wouldn't get kicked to the curb. Pretty soon you will start hearing the degentrification being said a lot. The gentrification of JC and many other NYC metro areas has screeched to a halt since most of these
"yuppies/professionals" were employed by the financial & real estate industries who were helping those people buy homes. Gentrification was a great big Ponzi scheme that was helped by the dot com & housing bubbles, and like those bubbles it has also popped!

Posted on: 2008/12/16 4:28
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