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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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This is what we need more of. Unfortunately, the neighborhood associations have way too much latitude in determining what businesses get to come in and whether or not to allow businesses to open up at all. If someone doesn't properly tithe or kiss the board's rings, they get deemed a "bad neighbor" or some such thing.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 13:52
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Hard Grove's past location: hella loud.
Brightside & PJs at their current locations: not loud.

I remember people getting worked up before PJs opened. that furor died down as soon as they proved themselves to be decent neighbors.

and to further deflate your accusations of racism: nobody complained about Rolon's Bar (the Keyhole) until the frat boys discovered it, and sh*t got loud.


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jcScout wrote:
NIMBY bs +1

This is veiled racism. Of course Brightside and PJ Ryan's are OK - they are Irish Pubs... God forbid a Caribbean bar open in the neighborhood! Sound the horns! Brown people might walk in your neighborhood... omg, can someone call the police already?

Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
It's a nightclub pretending to be a restaurant. No sane person wants this in a historic district/residential area given all the associated problems.

You think they're gonna do a good job soundproofing it? You think they're gonna stick to their max occupancy of 49 (staff included) daily? Do the owners have a good track record with neighborly relations?



What proof or documents do you have that this is intended as a "night club"? And what sort of nightclub is such with a capacity of only ~45 people (if you exclude employees)?

There are other bars in the neighborhood such as PJ Ryan's and Brightside Tavern that present no problems, and I'm sure the usual VVNA braying occurred when those establishments were coming in.

This is nothing more than NIMBY bs.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 13:36
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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I cant wait. It's gonna be Latin and FABULOUS!!!

Posted on: 2016/9/7 13:26
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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I remember it was noticeable because the music was louder than the live acts on JC Fridays. After a few hours, dance music gets old if you aren't rolling.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 12:44
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

bill wrote:
Wow, how quickly people forget. I lived in Grove Pointe one year and in the summer you could hear Hard Grove's music pretty loudly. I think they sponsored a LGBTQQIAAP night.


It's almost like living right above the center of Grove St PATH and Square would be noisier than other areas of the city..

Posted on: 2016/9/7 12:41
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Wow, how quickly people forget. I lived in Grove Pointe one year and in the summer you could hear Hard Grove's music pretty loudly. I think they sponsored a LGBTQQIP2SAA night.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 12:38
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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I welcome businesses sprinkled into residential neighborhoods as an alternative to having all businesses on a main drag. It's what makes urban cities awesome.

Are we sure it's going to be a "nightclub"? If so, it would seem a bit out of place.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 12:30
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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There is only 1 ingress/egress. The ground floor is 100% lot coverage and thus no other possible entrance/exit without trespassing on neighboring properties. The plans are public...

Posted on: 2016/9/7 11:55
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

Bread wrote:
There is only one means of ingress, egress in case of an emergency and that is out the front door.

That can't possibly be right. You've seen the floor plans? There's no back door or other emergency exit? I don't think the buildings department would approve any plans with only a single exit.

It's funny watching all the NIMBYs come up with ridiculous excuses to complain about any and every business that tries to open up.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 11:45
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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NIMBY bs +1

This is veiled racism. Of course Brightside and PJ Ryan's are OK - they are Irish Pubs... God forbid a Caribbean bar open in the neighborhood! Sound the horns! Brown people might walk in your neighborhood... omg, can someone call the police already?

Quote:

dr_nick_riviera wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
It's a nightclub pretending to be a restaurant. No sane person wants this in a historic district/residential area given all the associated problems.

You think they're gonna do a good job soundproofing it? You think they're gonna stick to their max occupancy of 49 (staff included) daily? Do the owners have a good track record with neighborly relations?



What proof or documents do you have that this is intended as a "night club"? And what sort of nightclub is such with a capacity of only ~45 people (if you exclude employees)?

There are other bars in the neighborhood such as PJ Ryan's and Brightside Tavern that present no problems, and I'm sure the usual VVNA braying occurred when those establishments were coming in.

This is nothing more than NIMBY bs.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 11:17
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

mfadam wrote:
It's a nightclub pretending to be a restaurant. No sane person wants this in a historic district/residential area given all the associated problems.

You think they're gonna do a good job soundproofing it? You think they're gonna stick to their max occupancy of 49 (staff included) daily? Do the owners have a good track record with neighborly relations?



What proof or documents do you have that this is intended as a "night club"? And what sort of nightclub is such with a capacity of only ~45 people (if you exclude employees)?

There are other bars in the neighborhood such as PJ Ryan's and Brightside Tavern that present no problems, and I'm sure the usual VVNA braying occurred when those establishments were coming in.

This is nothing more than NIMBY bs.

Posted on: 2016/9/7 10:45
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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It's a nightclub pretending to be a restaurant. No sane person wants this in a historic district/residential area given all the associated problems.

You think they're gonna do a good job soundproofing it? You think they're gonna stick to their max occupancy of 49 (staff included) daily? Do the owners have a good track record with neighborly relations?


Posted on: 2016/9/7 9:39
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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It blows my mind that people would have a problem with a restaurant renovating a blighted space on a block full of already blighted looking businesses that's mostly surrounded by section 8 townhouses (Montgomery Gardens). It seems most Van Vorst area residents think this area is some sort of Pleasantville and everybody has multiple cars and is going to drive into the area to patronize a neighborhood establishment.

Not to mention any complaints about noise are not at all credible when it's already sits on a very busy and very noisy 4-lane section of Montgomery.

The VVNA crowd pulls some sort of excuse out of a hat every time something larger than two stories attempts to get built in the area or god forbid somebody might want to open a business and bring some life back into the area. From vague generalities like "they're not good neighbors" or the old standby of "PARKING PARKING PARKING!", they never seem to lack irrational excuses for opposing literally anything.

Posted on: 2016/9/6 23:51
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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It's just a block from the new Cathedral Hall concert venue (FKA St Bridget's). So: maybe not so crazy after all.

Posted on: 2016/9/6 23:35
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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This location is crazy. It is a residential area and Historic District.

So yes, customer noise is an issue as is kitchen venting, commercial HVAC noise etc.

That said, I can't see why anyone would make the effort to go to such an oddball location...

Posted on: 2016/9/6 8:46
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

Bread wrote:

The owners are not neighborhood friendly and have to date thrown boulders in the river since the deed was transferred.



is this a euphemism?

Posted on: 2016/9/6 3:41
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

hlr9 wrote:
And these people are going to park "where"? And emerge late at night drunk "Where?" I'm sure I am not the first to say "WTF?"
[Am I allowed to type that?] How do we fight this?


HLR9[/b]


As usual, the trash in the VVNA would rather have abandoned storefronts than a useful business in the area and come up with ridiculous reasons like "parking" and noise (despite the fact this is a very loud, busy 4 lane highway).

I'd have more respect for them and their worthless board if they just came out and said "we want to maintain the glory days of 1985 forever. The neighborhood was a shit hole and had nothing in it, but at least we all had unlimited free parking!"

Posted on: 2016/9/4 14:29
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

hlr9 wrote:
So...IS Hard Grove opening up on Montgomery between Varick And Monmouth? That would be horrible for us over here...there is NO PARKING! It is all residential.

How could this have been approved...if it is true...


I have no idea if it's true or not, but:

1. Assuming restaurants are permitted on the parcel in question, tenancy is not approved by anyone. There is no legal way to pick and choose tenants - that gets into all kinds of consitutional issues. You can check the map at the end of this document to understand what would be permitted in your area: http://data.jerseycitynj.gov/dataset/ ... a8-4659-9ab3-0441a3407cff

2. I can't imagine much of anyone driving to Hard Grove. It's a neighborhood restaurant. More the point, if your concern was applied to downtown, it would be an ugly sea of parking lots.

Posted on: 2016/9/3 17:58
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

Bread wrote:
this venue is awaiting Historic District Commission approval of the restoration of the facade.

The Nightclub/bar/restaurant concept of this site has a legal limit of 49 people. That is inclusive of employees and customers.

There is only one means of ingress, egress in case of an emergency and that is out the front door.

The owners are not neighborhood friendly and have to date thrown boulders in the river since the deed was transferred.

The owners have had and continue to have actually been a very bad neighbor.

Without permission they have been on neighbors roofs, backyards, working without permits, taking the facade down … all without permission, and has jeopardized the health of the upstairs tenant.... the list goes on and on.



Evelyn and Carmen NOT taking proper precautions is as common as Chris Christie eating. They are both lawyers, they know what they can get away with. Ask their employees and the person they leased the original location from. This surprises me ZERO

Posted on: 2016/9/3 17:32
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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And these people are going to park "where"? And emerge late at night drunk "Where?" I'm sure I am not the first to say "WTF?"
[Am I allowed to type that?] How do we fight this?


HLR9[/b]

Posted on: 2016/9/3 17:22
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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this venue is awaiting Historic District Commission approval of the restoration of the facade.

The Nightclub/bar/restaurant concept of this site has a legal limit of 49 people. That is inclusive of employees and customers.

There is only one means of ingress, egress in case of an emergency and that is out the front door.

The owners are not neighborhood friendly and have to date thrown boulders in the river since the deed was transferred.

The owners have had and continue to have actually been a very bad neighbor.

Without permission they have been on neighbors roofs, backyards, working without permits, taking the facade down … all without permission, and has jeopardized the health of the upstairs tenant.... the list goes on and on.


Posted on: 2016/9/3 16:55
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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It's definitely going to be some sort of restaurant, no indications that hard grove is moving in though. I walked by the other day when they had the doors open and the space was fairly well along. There was a long bar along the right hand side and they were working on interior finishes, lighting and ductwork.

Posted on: 2016/9/3 14:54
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

GrovePath wrote:
Quote:

hlr9 wrote:
So...IS Hard Grove opening up on Montgomery between Varick And Monmouth? That would be horrible for us over here...there is NO PARKING! It is all residential.

How could this have been approved...if it is true...


What building are you talking about? I know the dry cleaners and some industrial buildings are there....



Two doors down from the laundromat cleaner toward Varick on Montgomery. It is covered now in plywood.

Posted on: 2016/9/3 14:43
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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The place is a little off the beaten path, I am sure the old timers will make it there, but they might have less traffic with the new crowd. Too bad, I wish there was some sort of post-disaster legal agreement for them to move in whatever commercial place will be built in the newark location. I can appreciate the (urgent) need to work in some (temporary?) place in the meantime.

Posted on: 2016/8/28 11:40
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

hlr9 wrote:
So...IS Hard Grove opening up on Montgomery between Varick And Monmouth? That would be horrible for us over here...there is NO PARKING! It is all residential.

How could this have been approved...if it is true...


What building are you talking about? I know the dry cleaners and some industrial buildings are there....


Posted on: 2016/8/28 11:10
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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So...IS Hard Grove opening up on Montgomery between Varick And Monmouth? That would be horrible for us over here...there is NO PARKING! It is all residential.

How could this have been approved...if it is true...

Posted on: 2016/8/27 21:06
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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If they can squeeze an 18th in there it will cover their building costs.


Posted on: 2016/8/27 7:44
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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"I'll bet we could make a lot of money if we sold new condos here."

"Yeah, let's do that."

"There's a 4-story building with a cool historic facade on the site. We could make even more money if we got rid of that building and replace it with a new 6-story one."

"Yeah, let's do that."

Poof, gone! Goodbye. Diabolical? Let your conscience be your guide.

Now let's watch 143 Newark - the historic building that was to have housed Hard Grove. The renovation plan was for 17 housing units. Now that the facade "can't be saved" - I wonder if the new plan will call for an equal-size development? or more units / bigger / more expensive units? What's your hunch?


Posted on: 2016/8/27 0:51
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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I mean, it's not like it's that diabolical a plot.

"I'll bet we could make a lot of money if we sold new condos here."

"Yeah, let's do that."

Posted on: 2016/8/26 20:47
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Re: Hard Grove Cafe
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Quote:

Bike_Lane wrote:
On the bright side, some slick developer is going to be able to cram a whole lotta units in there!





probably the plan before that match even hit the ground.

Posted on: 2016/8/26 9:14
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