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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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For those of you who have not yet signed the petitions, Civic JC will have a table near the Grove St. PATH Station and volunteers with clipboard collecting addtional signatures this evening (Friday) from 4:30pm to 8pm or later.

If you are not registered to vote in Jersey City, we will have voter registration forms which can be completed the same time as signing the petition.

there is much confusion that has been published along with a mingling of the two different initiatives, so while wanting to update everyone, my following comments are not an official statement -

- a significant number of signatures for the p2p reform ordinance were invalidated due to a problem with the petition package and efforts are being made to collect and submit the necessary number to meet the requirement.

- a much smaller number of signatures which are already in hand is needed for the "multi-salary" petition. However, at this point in time, the consensus is that Councilman Fulop is correct and that the Corporate Council is mis-applying the state statue. He seems more interested in protecting the council from this ordinance than the public's interest in the initiative. Legal resources are working together to determine the best course of action.

for those of you who want to take additional action at this time, my personal suggestion is to write letters/emails to the local press and the mayor's offce supporting these initiatives.

Posted on: 2008/8/1 18:46
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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Quote:

Waggs wrote:
[...]
Has anybody contacted Steve or CivicJC to see what their thoughts are?

I don't have a solution either right now, but don't want to see this thread buried.


Dear Friends,

I want to bring your attention to the article below that appeared in today?s (July 31, 2008) edition of the Jersey Journal. As you will read, our referendum initiative turned in enough signatures to get two important ballot initiatives on November?s ballot so the voters of Jersey City could make their city officials more accountable to them.

Now, as you can see, the mayor?s lawyer is trying to change the rules of the game in the final minutes. This latest turn of events will no doubt make things more difficult and cost us more money and more manpower but I assure you that we are not deterred from our goal of putting the pay to play initiative on the ballot as well as restricting elected officials to one tax payer funded salary and one tax payer funded pension (of which almost all elected officials in Jersey City violate).

http://www.nj.com/jjournal/stories/in ... 17485530290031.xml&coll=3

We are commited to moving this forward but we need your help at www.betterjc.org. Whether via a contribution (maximum $20) or via volunteering efforts your help is needed and both can be done at www.betterjc.org. The above article may represent typical Hudson County politics but with your help we will certainly not stop working towards our stated goals.

Sincerely,
Steven Fulop

Councilman Ward "E" Jersey City


This message was sent by: Fulop for Jersey City, Ward "E", Jersey City, NJ 07302

Posted on: 2008/8/1 18:23
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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mrrogers wrote:
Fulop played by the very rules the city set.He purposely did not gather more than the clerk told him to because of the special election clause (250,000 for election)Does anybody think that they did not always have this up their sleeve.

This is about their money.The online news story does not show the side bar of the seven councilmen who are collecting almost a million dollars from the county.Someone should scan and post this.

Better JC and Civic JC got this thing to the one yard line and the
Douche bags in City Hall moved the Goal post.

The question should be "What are we going to do about it"


I'm surprised this thread isn't generating more talk. 2 people have asked what are we going to do (well, one suggested a protest..not a crazy idea, anybody else?)...is anybody really up for making more of a stink?
Its like somebody just got collapsed on Grove st midday..we're all staring at each other to make the first move.

Has anybody contacted Steve or CivicJC to see what their thoughts are?

I don't have a solution either right now, but don't want to see this thread buried.

Posted on: 2008/8/1 18:18
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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regulator wrote:

i cant help but wonder if fulop would have accepted schundler's backing on this instead of spurning him, if this whole mess with the 12k votes would have still occurred. the man (schundler) still probably has some influence in the way the city's run.. no?


No, he doesn't! Schundler is an opportunist at every call of the election bell. See http://www.stopbretschundler.com and this link for more info:

PoliticsNJ

Schundler ally: he's running

Quote:
Michael Yun - Big Deal
posted by Leon Abbett

For a guy who loves Jersey City so much, Michael Yun does not even live in Jersey City, so big deal. It's all about what Yun can get for himself not about Schundler. Then again Bret is only for Bret as well.

Schundler's day has come and gone. He used Jersey City as a stepping stone to higher office twice, pissed off his own party now Bret wants his old mayoral seat back to try it all over again? Schundler, the alleged Wall St Wizard, sold off the city assets with financial gimicks leaving the city in financial distress then bolted for higher office. It has always been about Bret as it is now.

Where has Schundler been in the last 8 years in JC? Even his own party wants nothing to do with him.

Schundler's run will be to rebuild his own failed political career as well as an ego stroke for himself.
**********************************************
Schundler is old news
posted by Demsanddonts

Will be very difficult for Schundler to patch together the kind of coalition he'll need to win.

With Fulop out-of-the-race, it could make things interesting. The key of course is Cunningham.

Vote Column - All the way!
********************************************
Fulop's in the Race
posted by Jerseyguy97

When did Fulop get out of the race? He's a very strong candidate for mayor with a large following. Schundler's got no following in the city and has a long failed record to answer for. Fulop has a strong record on economic development and ethics reform and will be mayor.

game of chicken
posted by TheJanitor

Of course Shundlerites say Fulop is out,they cannot win if he is in.He needs Steve on his ticket to apease the downtown progressives who will not stomach his right wing veiws.In the end it will be Fulop vrs Healy vrs Harvey.
**********************************************
bret? bret who?
posted by enoch_needles

When was the last time Schundler even showed up at a city council meeting? After 2 beatings (McG and Forrester) Bret decides he wants to get back in the game. And then what? Another run at Trenton and another beat down?

The writing's on the wall, Jersey City has passed Bret by and we don't miss him and his Newt Gingrich "sensibilities" at all.

No, Bret, keep teaching at your little bible college and leave Jersey City to those who don't want to be President....well, except Fulop.

An oldie but a goodie - it's 2008: http://www.njfaq.com/bret2001/preex/buckley071999.shtml
*********************************************
Schundler has been...
posted by DemocratDiaz

Fact is Schundler is a has been, his time has passed. He needs to work his way up again, maybe he should give Fulop a call to run on his slate as a Councilman or something.

Speaking of which Fulop should get a slate going instead of gearing solo, it might help... then again it might not.

Cunningham is gonna cut a deal with Healy. Smith and Manzo will help take those votes away, and in comes Fulop...

At the end it's Healy vs Fulop!
********************************************
Brett is Banking on Embankment and Church Groups Support

posted by BrightMoment

Schundler has been on the move every where recently including the recent Jersey City "Embankment Preservation Coalition" Benefit where word was he now "backs the EPC" when he was an opponent to it's goal of preserving open space during his mayoralty. Several Mayor 2009 candidates were also there including Steve Fulop who has long spoke of his support of the EPC and Lou Manzo who was a signatory to the EPC's petition, so guess Schundler didn't want to be left off another JC issue he's not supported in the past.

1999: The Embankment is listed on the State Register of Historic Places Listing followed a hearing and vote of the New Jersey State Review Board for Historic Sites and signing by the Commissioner of the State Department of Environmental Protection. Mayor Bret Schundler sent a contingent of City employees and a consultant to the board hearing to argue against historic designation. The vote of professionals on the board, however, was unanimous for listing.

Grace Van Vorst Church, where Schundler sits on the board, was also trying to set up a "city-wide coalition group" led by the actions of Reverend Janet Broderick. To benefit whom, I wonder? Hmmm....

http://www.embankment.org/

"Bright Moments, Bright Moments, Bright Moments, Right NOW!--Rahsaan Roland Kirk
**********************************************
sandy, harvey, and lou
posted by enoch_needles
[...]

mayor schundler? ain't gonna happen.

Posted on: 2008/8/1 9:46
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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Fulop played by the very rules the city set.He purposely did not gather more than the clerk told him to because of the special election clause (250,000 for election)Does anybody think that they did not always have this up their sleeve.

This is about their money.The online news story does not show the side bar of the seven councilmen who are collecting almost a million dollars from the county.Someone should scan and post this.

Better JC and Civic JC got this thing to the one yard line and the
Douche bags in City Hall moved the Goal post.

The question should be "What are we going to do about it"

Posted on: 2008/8/1 3:58
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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is it a crazy idea to organize and protest in front of the city hall. Something really big and outrageous. If there was a couple hundred people, which I'm sure in this huge city they would come out.

I think it's fair to say people want change, but if city officials are so so so so dirty in this town nothing with ever happen. If the media got involved, that would be huge, right? It's not really a crazy idea. It almost seems like the city is inviting this upon themselves. Or am i just thinking far too proactively?

I was thinking about asking about this on here a couple months ago on here and since i've spoken in light conversation about it with others and i have only had people agree. It's something to think about.

Posted on: 2008/8/1 0:04
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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Based solely on a read of the JJ article, nowhere does it state that the City Clerk has refused to certify the petitions.

There is still time for the City Clerk to certify the petitions.

To refuse to certify the petitions at this stage, based on a legal opinion of the City's Corporation Counsel, would compromise the integrity and tenured independence of the Office of the City Clerk.

My understanding of the correct process is that, if the City Clerk has previously determined that the Faulkner Act standard for initiative petitions applies - which he has - then he must certify the petitions.

Then, and only then, if the City believes that the certification was based on an incorrect standard or reading of the law, then it's their burden to file a challenge in court.

The City (not the petitioners) would have the burden of proof to demonstrate that the Municipal's Clerk's application of the Faulkner Act was incorrect.

I would hope that the City Clerk, chooses to maintain the integrity and fairness of the office by doing the right thing -- and that is to to certify the petitions based on his prior determination that the Faulkner Act standard applies.

The rest would be in the hands of the courts if the City chooses to file a challenge.

All the best.

Geoff

Posted on: 2008/7/31 22:06
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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Who the f*** do these guys think they are? And it's our fault for not voting every chance we get and DEMANDING better government. I'll never forget how smug and ridiculous some of the councilmembers acted at the "pay to play" council meeting a while back. One guy actually said,
"YOU people (what people, the people who keep your sorry a*s employed?) come to me with your little pet projects (like keeping our streets safe and feeding the homeless)...and where do you think that money comes from? Developers who give us money so they can build here. That's right. No don't boo me."
It makes me sick. Every time i go to the polls i want to vote out every incumbent. YOU people who are double and triple dipping from city and state funds need to go.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 20:43
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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even exposure in the press does nothing to stop these ass-clowns. they know no shame.

Steve, I'll sign. and I will vote.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 19:45
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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That is just so incredibly sad.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 19:28
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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Quote:

tern wrote:
Why were they only able to gather so few signatures?

It doesn't bode well for the eventual success of the referendum(s) if they were only able to gather 3,000 signatures. If the motions have popular support gathering 10,000+ signatures should have been possible by now, or should it?

Robin.


They were originally told by the city that only a little more than 1500 signatures would put it on the November ballot. More than about 2,500 would have triggered a special election.

As was astutely pointed out on the other thread, the referendum may have lost in an election that was just for the referendum-- the machine would have sent out their supporters to vote against it. In a November presidential election, the measure perhaps stands a better chance with everyone out and voting. (I would argue that it might actually stand a better chance as a stand alone election). However, a special election would have also cost $250,000 or more.

Also, as to circulating petitions, most of the time there are certain requirements as to who can circulate the petition. Having the wrong person circulate the petition is grounds for dismissing any signatures that the wrong person collected. (for a referendum, the only requirement may be that the circulating person be a registered voter. To get on the primary ballot, for instance, the person circulating the petition must be registered, party declared, and from the location where the petition is being circulated).


Anyway, the real question is, what is the deadline to hand in the 13,000 or so signatures, and what are the requirements for those circulating the petitions?

Posted on: 2008/7/31 19:26
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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this is bullsh*t. we are fortunate enough to have a young guy who is motivated and wants to see change for the better. I got your back too Steve!

Posted on: 2008/7/31 19:19
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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Quote:

Waggs wrote:
Quote:

chiefdahill wrote:
That's some BULLSHIT.

Steve- I got your back. I'll register and sign the petetion. I know I'm only one guy but it onlt takes one to get it started.

Matsikoudis is such a snake. I've personally met him and he's such a sneaky bastard.


+1
BS
Everybody complains at how corrupt JC/Hudson cty is and somebody who actually is trying and in position to make a change gets shot down so quickly (what a coincidence that they dug that up so quickly).
way to listen to the people!


That is why voting is SO important. The machine counts on people not caring enough to vote, they MUST be proved wrong.

Gina

Posted on: 2008/7/31 19:16
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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chiefdahill wrote:
That's some BULLSHIT.

Steve- I got your back. I'll register and sign the petetion. I know I'm only one guy but it onlt takes one to get it started.

Matsikoudis is such a snake. I've personally met him and he's such a sneaky bastard.


+1
BS
Everybody complains at how corrupt JC/Hudson cty is and somebody who actually is trying and in position to make a change gets shot down so quickly (what a coincidence that they dug that up so quickly).
way to listen to the people!

Posted on: 2008/7/31 18:39
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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They intentionally shot for just over the necessary number of signatures. Getting over a certain number (I forget what, 10,000 or something) would have triggered a special ballot which would have cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars. It was really quite thoughtful and considerate.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 18:15
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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That's some BULLSHIT.

Steve- I got your back. I'll register and sign the petetion. I know I'm only one guy but it onlt takes one to get it started.

Matsikoudis is such a snake. I've personally met him and he's such a sneaky bastard.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 18:09
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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It is very difficult to collect signatures. They have to be registered voters and people have to VOLUNTEER.....in this day in age its hard to get people involved....people will sit and complain but how many are willing to canvas the neighborhood? should we start a group and spread it to all wards?......

Posted on: 2008/7/31 18:06
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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I agree 150%!! Fulop is the only one that has the ..$$%## to stand up ....we don't have to agree with everything he is doing but he surely is on the right track. There are many people that confident Healy will win the next time around....what we all need to do is make sure that this machine is stopped..COUNTY wide...i think the common feeling is that finally people are realizing how corrupt this county really is.....they change the rules on a whim...but there are so many other things that has happened that we need to wisen up!! Not only that, please help in spreading the word to the other wards.. Ward F, A, D, B ,C........God knows we need someone like Fulop in Ward F!!....

Posted on: 2008/7/31 17:58
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Re: WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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Why were they only able to gather so few signatures?

It doesn't bode well for the eventual success of the referendum(s) if they were only able to gather 3,000 signatures. If the motions have popular support gathering 10,000+ signatures should have been possible by now, or should it?

Robin.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 17:56
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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This is infuriating. The corrupt are in charge and change the rules to protect their corruption. It's time to kill the machine that controls JC politics and get behind independent politicians. This referendum might not get on the ballot, but we need to get behind non-HCDO candidates.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 17:32
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WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
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WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
City cites case law on petition signatures
Thursday, July 31, 2008
By KEN THORBOURNE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

In a last-minute move, Jersey City officials have dramatically upped the number of signatures Councilman Steven Fulop needs to collect to qualify one of two reform initiatives he is championing for the November ballot - and Fulop is crying foul.

"I met with city officials countless times to do this . now they are changing the rules of the game," Fulop fumed yesterday. "(Onetime Jersey City Mayor) Frank Hague would be proud."

For months now, Fulop and a crew of activists have labored under the impression they needed 1,506 valid signatures of registered voters to qualify each of the two ballot initiatives.

Now the city says he needs 12,227 signatures, and Fulop would rather fight than pound the pavement for more signatures.

One initiative would limit when and how much vendors who are awarded no-bid contracts could contribute to local political campaigns.

The other initiative, which is the one in trouble, would bar council members from collecting council salaries if they held other public jobs. Seven of the nine current council members have other public jobs.

The 1,506 figure was established primarily in conversations with City Clerk Robert Byrne, but also in discussions with two city attorneys, Fulop said yesterday.

Byrne readily acknowledged he based the figure on his understanding of the Faulkner Act, which governs how Jersey City operates.

The Faulkner Act sets as the standard for initiative petitions 10 percent of the number of people who voted in the last general election in which General Assembly members were elected. In Jersey City's case, that would be November 2006, when 15,055 persons went to the polls, Byrne said.

A month ago, Fulop turned in roughly 1,800 signatures for each initiative. Fulop said he collected about 3,000 for each initiative, but turned in fewer to avoid a costly special election for the city. Tuesday, Byrne told Fulop he was just over 100 valid signatures shy on each petition to qualify them for the ballot and that he had 10 days to cure the problem.

But then came the game-changer.

Corporation Counsel Bill Matsikoudis told Byrne yesterday the Faulkner Act doesn't apply when it comes to initiatives involving salaries.

Based on case law, Matsikoudis said, those petitions are governed by a broader state statute that requires 10 percent or more of all the registered voters in the city.

As of January, Jersey City had 122,271 voters. So to qualify his salary initiative, Fulop would need to turn in 12,227 valid signatures - and do so in 10 days.

Fulop said he has no plans to undertake a massive collection effort at this late date. "We are going to follow

Posted on: 2008/7/31 16:55
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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This is INSANE! VOTE THESE PEOPLE OUT!


Gina

Posted on: 2008/7/31 16:53
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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icechute wrote:
I can't believe there isn't more of an outcry about this on here.


That's because not everybody reads an old thread that pops up because the Webmaster has moved a new breaking news thread onto it. Some forums have user changable subheaders to deal with this. Not here.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 15:50
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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I can't believe there isn't more of an outcry about this on here.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 15:44
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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Vigilante wrote:
Time to get out the brooms and sweep these scumb*gs out of office.


+1

You just know these pricks have been planning this move from day one, they didn't suddenly think "hey, I wonder if that is the right reading of the law?" when the petition landed on their desk.

With any luck, this might end up as a Pyhrric victory for them, winning against the referendums but losing the election when it's clear what venal, unrepentant crooks they are.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 15:18
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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Time to get out the brooms and sweep these scumb*gs out of office.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 14:56
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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regulator wrote:
i cant help but wonder if fulop would have accepted schundler's backing on this instead of spurning him, if this whole mess with the 12k votes would have still occurred. the man (schundler) still probably has some influence in the way the city's run.. no?


No.

To the victor go the spoils.

Posted on: 2008/7/31 13:56
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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i cant help but wonder if fulop would have accepted schundler's backing on this instead of spurning him, if this whole mess with the 12k votes would have still occurred. the man (schundler) still probably has some influence in the way the city's run.. no?

Posted on: 2008/7/31 13:51
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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So the real question is, how do sign the petitions, and by what date do we need to get the 13,000 or so signatures into the city by?

Also, what are the requirements for the people circulating the petitions? Do you just have to be a registered voter?

Posted on: 2008/7/31 13:40
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Re: Councilman gets ethics questions on the ballot
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Here's the article (friggin unreal):



WAY SHORT, FULOP TOLD
City cites case law on petition signatures
Thursday, July 31, 2008
By KEN THORBOURNE
JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

In a last-minute move, Jersey City officials have dramatically upped the number of signatures Councilman Steven Fulop needs to collect to qualify one of two reform initiatives he is championing for the November ballot - and Fulop is crying foul.

"I met with city officials countless times to do this . now they are changing the rules of the game," Fulop fumed yesterday. "(Onetime Jersey City Mayor) Frank Hague would be proud."

For months now, Fulop and a crew of activists have labored under the impression they needed 1,506 valid signatures of registered voters to qualify each of the two ballot initiatives.

Now the city says he needs 12,227 signatures, and Fulop would rather fight than pound the pavement for more signatures.

One initiative would limit when and how much vendors who are awarded no-bid contracts could contribute to local political campaigns.

The other initiative, which is the one in trouble, would bar council members from collecting council salaries if they held other public jobs. Seven of the nine current council members have other public jobs.

The 1,506 figure was established primarily in conversations with City Clerk Robert Byrne, but also in discussions with two city attorneys, Fulop said yesterday.

Byrne readily acknowledged he based the figure on his understanding of the Faulkner Act, which governs how Jersey City operates.

The Faulkner Act sets as the standard for initiative petitions 10 percent of the number of people who voted in the last general election in which General Assembly members were elected. In Jersey City's case, that would be November 2006, when 15,055 persons went to the polls, Byrne said.

A month ago, Fulop turned in roughly 1,800 signatures for each initiative. Fulop said he collected about 3,000 for each initiative, but turned in fewer to avoid a costly special election for the city. Tuesday, Byrne told Fulop he was just over 100 valid signatures shy on each petition to qualify them for the ballot and that he had 10 days to cure the problem.

But then came the game-changer.

Corporation Counsel Bill Matsikoudis told Byrne yesterday the Faulkner Act doesn't apply when it comes to initiatives involving salaries.

Based on case law, Matsikoudis said, those petitions are governed by a broader state statute that requires 10 percent or more of all the registered voters in the city.

As of January, Jersey City had 122,271 voters. So to qualify his salary initiative, Fulop would need to turn in 12,227 valid signatures - and do so in 10 days.

Fulop said he has no plans to undertake a massive collection effort at this late date. "We are going to follow the rules we were given," Fulop said. "From there we'll see what happens. If we have to go to court, we will."

Posted on: 2008/7/31 13:31
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