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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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The crime and safety issue is a concern and has got worse in the past 18 months. In 2001 I could leave my door open on second street, run errands, come back and everything would be there. Not over the past 12 months. I heard about 3 muggings (or attempted at least) in the past 12 months but none from 2001 thru 2004. Something needs to be done. The JCPD have limited resources and City Hall will protray facts and figures any way they want to see it.

WE NEED TO TAKE ACTION TOO!!!!!. If there is a mugging, noise complaints, trash that is unacceptable just keep on calling, call city hall, call the police, call your councelman/woman, call the ABC. The more we make ourselves a pain in the a!! for the city the more they have to listen. It may sound redundant but all our voices will translate into votes come election time. That will get people to listen.

Don't forget, this is "OUR CITY" and we should take that attitude. Unacceptable behaviour will not be tolerated.

Works in places like Hoboken and should work here.

Posted on: 2006/3/7 1:38
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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What is amazing to me is you can go days without seeing a cop down here if you don't pass by the grove street path station. Literally days!

Posted on: 2006/3/6 17:59
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Yes, being aware of one's environment is key, here or anywhere.
(But of course I am the first to break my own rules and to
just wander around, head in the clouds, thinking about
anything other than where I am and what I'm doing.)
Keeping out of daydream mode is crucial in the urban
streetscape.

The Times story on downtown and crime seems
to me right on target, though I no longer keep 100%
up on the latest stats. The business about the mothers
and old ladies being hassled is sad and a bit sick.

But just as sad and sick, I feel, is the police dept.'s
apparent disinterest and also their perfunctory reaction to
street and property crime. What the dept. excels
at is taking reports, but we could hire low-wage
stenos to take reports. What we need is street
policing and crime prevention/deterrent --BEFORE
the crime, rather than after the crime, which is
what we have now.
We need an aggressive police presence that is not
wary of offending the fragile sensibilities of perps.
Politically correct cops belong in some place like
Oslo, where they do not have crime. Whereas in downtown
JC, we need cops who have the stones to
do their jobs and not worry about what class action law-
suits might result from their having done their jobs.
Until there is a fundamental change in the
philosophy of policing here, chit-chat about
politicos and councilpeople and age-old
animosities and blood feuds and nepotistic charades are just
that -- chit chat over tepid tea.
Meanwhile, downtown, people come and go, and they
are not speaking of Michelangelo -- they're
saying, "Thank God we got out of there in one piece."

Posted on: 2006/3/6 17:53
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Re: Taxes and Cops
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credit where due: top of my last post was a quote from citizen's post that i didn't post properly.

Posted on: 2006/3/6 16:21
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Re: Taxes and Cops
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I took away from the article and some of the posts, that while crime generally is the same as 5/10 years ago, most expect it to improve as revialization continues and real estate prices have sky rocketed, but it has not.>>

I agree with DanL's interpretation.

When people are paying $500/sq ft (and up) downtown and on the waterfront, they believe they deserve security -- and when they pay $5k, $10k or higher in property taxes they definitely are convinced they deserve a responsive govt.

To me...the recent events don't say too much about crime but they say much more about perceptions of crime and the inability of this administration to manage the situation.

But I take hope in this: last year residents of downtown elected Steve Fulop who fought the machine and the machine lost.

I am convinced that if an alternative, energetic candidate had emerged in JSQ he/she could have beaten Lipski (and Jimmy King is not that candidate; besides, he lost).

Little by little the machine is losing power, as new residents move in and actually demand a responsive govt (and who don't want patronage jobs).

Posted on: 2006/3/6 16:10
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Re: Taxes and Cops
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However, in addition to policing, the administration needs to address quality of life issues. It was definitively established by Wilson in his Broken Window study that a laissez faire attitide to quality of life issues, e.g. trash, public urination, homeless, lead to petty crime (street sales of CDS), to big crime murder and mahem). Things went down hill in this area under Cunningham. The excuse I heard was that he had focused on previously neglected neighborhoods and that focus had flushed some of the problems in to downtown. I doubt that. I just think it was an unresponsive administration that did not buy the "Broken window approach" or the idea that the reform of the JCPD had to continue.

Having lived in other places for a long time I can tell you that this is huge part of the problem with the old boy's network and cronies over here. They find it so hard to change. The things discussed above work. We need a few hundred more cops and the discipline to follow the "Broken Windows." theory.





[/quote]

Posted on: 2006/3/6 15:10
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Re: Taxes and Cops
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This post is very well pointed and I believe accurately puts the "slipping back" at the feet of the Cunningham Administration.

I took away from the article and some of the posts, that while crime generally is the same as 5/10 years ago, most expect it to improve as revialization continues and real estate prices have sky rocketed, but it has not.

Mayor Healy ran on the platform of reducing crime. Given that, he via his appointments should articulate a comprehensive plan to address public safety. Chief Troy referred to a plan in the article and asked for time to see the results. First step is to share the plan with the public.

Over the weekend, a credible person mentioned to me that the Fire Department had just hired 30 new recruits inorder to get down the hiring list to the Mayor's son. This is a fundemental obstacle and needs to be put out into the open.

Regarding those who would like to hear antecdotal comments on whether JC is a safe place to live, can peruse previous discussions, there are plenty.

So Jerry Healy is our David Dinkins.... can we skip over having our Rudy Guiliani to having our own Michael Bloomberg? or even better, Ken Livingstone of London?

Quote:

Citizen wrote:
The Administrations claim that more cops are needed needs to be looked at critically. The Police Deaprtment like the Fire Department and other city Departments is also a place for patronage. 1000 members is, I think, about 200 more than the Department had under Scundler. Schundler infuriated the cops by:
1. Civilianization- that is having non union civilians do jobs that don't require a badge and gun, e.g. processing criminal records.
2. Community policiing, that is getting cops out on the beat/on the street.
3. Invigorating the chain of command. There was an effort to get superviosrs to act like supervisors rather than like fellow union members. Supervisors who did not step up to the plate and, for instance, discipline negligent officers were themselves liable to be disciplined- a shocking wake up at the time.
4. Merit in promotions. A measure of merit beyond the civil service exam for which anyone can cram was introduced. Thus for the first time in the Department's hisotry, the Rule of Three was used to by pass unacceptable promotional candidates.

In many ways, the JCPD is a great organization that functions remarkably well given these institutional and historical accidents that encourage disfunction. WIth the right leadership, the Department can easily regain its equilibrium. Nalbach by the way is an excellent cop.

Another issue that mitigates against police reponsiveness is the fact that the cops all live out of town. The PBA like the Firemen's Union and, of course, the teachers' union have all made certain that they alone of municipal workers cannot by law be forced to live here. The result is a disdain for those who remain. Many of them look on us as chumps too stupid not to have moved to Secaucus or Toms River.

And since taxes is an issue here, the Fire Department is bloated and should be reduced. I thing the Fire together with police take up like half the muncipal budget.

The writer on this thread who described the currrent situation as Jersey City's Dinkens era is, I think, on target.

However, in addition to policing, the administration needs to address quality of life issues. It was definitively established by Wilson in his Broken Window study that a laissez faire attitide to quality of life issues, e.g. trash, public urination, homeless, lead to petty crime (street sales of CDS), to big crime murder and mahem). Things went down hill in this area under Cunningham. The excuse I heard was that he had focused on previously neglected neighborhoods and that focus had flushed some of the problems in to downtown. I doubt that. I just think it was an unresponsive administration that did not buy the "Broken window approach" or the idea that the reform of the JCPD had to continue.






Posted on: 2006/3/6 14:49
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Re: Taxes and Cops
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The Administrations claim that more cops are needed needs to be looked at critically. The Police Deaprtment like the Fire Department and other city Departments is also a place for patronage. 1000 members is, I think, about 200 more than the Department had under Scundler. Schundler infuriated the cops by:
1. Civilianization- that is having non union civilians do jobs that don't require a badge and gun, e.g. processing criminal records.
2. Community policiing, that is getting cops out on the beat/on the street.
3. Invigorating the chain of command. There was an effort to get superviosrs to act like supervisors rather than like fellow union members. Supervisors who did not step up to the plate and, for instance, discipline negligent officers were themselves liable to be disciplined- a shocking wake up at the time.
4. Merit in promotions. A measure of merit beyond the civil service exam for which anyone can cram was introduced. Thus for the first time in the Department's hisotry, the Rule of Three was used to by pass unacceptable promotional candidates.

In many ways, the JCPD is a great organization that functions remarkably well given these institutional and historical accidents that encourage disfunction. WIth the right leadership, the Department can easily regain its equilibrium. Nalbach by the way is an excellent cop.

Another issue that mitigates against police reponsiveness is the fact that the cops all live out of town. The PBA like the Firemen's Union and, of course, the teachers' union have all made certain that they alone of municipal workers cannot by law be forced to live here. The result is a disdain for those who remain. Many of them look on us as chumps too stupid not to have moved to Secaucus or Toms River.

And since taxes is an issue here, the Fire Department is bloated and should be reduced. I thing the Fire together with police take up like half the muncipal budget.

The writer on this thread who described the currrent situation as Jersey City's Dinkens era is, I think, on target.

However, in addition to policing, the administration needs to address quality of life issues. It was definitively established by Wilson in his Broken Window study that a laissez faire attitide to quality of life issues, e.g. trash, public urination, homeless, lead to petty crime (street sales of CDS), to big crime murder and mahem). Things went down hill in this area under Cunningham. The excuse I heard was that he had focused on previously neglected neighborhoods and that focus had flushed some of the problems in to downtown. I doubt that. I just think it was an unresponsive administration that did not buy the "Broken window approach" or the idea that the reform of the JCPD had to continue.






Posted on: 2006/3/6 14:25
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Most of JC is, in my opinion, pretty safe, most of the time. My own block, in the Heights, is as safe as any place I've ever lived. But...other blocks in the Heights are pretty dicey. JC (like, say, Brooklyn) is a block by block proposition. I have been in parts of Crown Heights that are as bad as our worst...and of course Brooklyn Heights is as good as our best.

Stories like the NY Times piece (which I generally thought was pretty good) can be read as scenes in a political war where the incumbents (essentially direct descendents of JV Kenny and Frank Hague) are facing new enemies (affluent, educated residents who don't want jobs with the city or county on account of they make a lot more in the private sector) and the new enemies are drawing blood by making the incumbents seem stupid and overmatched.

Call this the David Dinkins era of JC history where the leadership seems to be losing to the darker forces.

But after Dinkins came...the Great Clean Up.

So it will be here.

That said, the incumbents aren't as dumb as they currently appear...so this ain't over until it's over.

In direct response to your question...safety/security are personal issues. It's hard to tell a person, you'll feel safe here or there. Come over, walk around neighborhoods that interest you, and make up your own mind.

Posted on: 2006/3/6 13:55
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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i appreciate the response.....and ofcourse being aware of your environment is key - but when you read about attacks on mothers with children it has very little to do with "walking with a purposeful determination"

i'm still interested to hear other people's opinion

Posted on: 2006/3/6 12:43
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

amin wrote:
I have been thinking of moving from NYC to downtown Jersey City with my wife and child - obviously safety is a big concern and i came across this article by chance.....I'm interested in finding out from people's experience....is it really as bad as the article says - with vigilante groups and self defence classes being offered it does not paint a good picture


The JC Guardian Angels are not a "vigilante group", nor are the pro-active members of the Downtown Watch groups.

Both groups are focused on working with residents of JC and the police to make everyone more aware of issues of safety, security and steps to minimalize criminality in our communities.

I have lived in Manhattan in NOHO, SOHO and in Brooklyn in Park Slope and Prospect Heights and can vouch that downtown JC is as safe as those areas.

However, if you lack "street sense", knowing how to walk with a purposeful determination, how to be aware of your surroundings at all times, etc., then likely you would find downtown JC as problematic as any area in Manhattan if you walked with disregard of your surroundings.

There are many families here in downtown JC, simply do a search on this site and PM people who post under topic threads of children, schools, safety, neighborhood groups, etc. and all will be happy to tell you why downtown JC is as safe as most places in NY and safer than many others in Manhattan.

Even with our problems with crime it's still a great place to live, find community and there are many here who will agree as disagree. We're nothing if not a vocal group!

Posted on: 2006/3/6 6:54
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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I have been thinking of moving from NYC to downtown Jersey City with my wife and child - obviously safety is a big concern and i came across this article by chance.....I'm interested in finding out from people's experience....is it really as bad as the article says - with vigilante groups and self defence classes being offered it does not paint a good picture

Posted on: 2006/3/6 5:38
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Very sad article...sad because, in lots of ways, it is on target....

Posted on: 2006/3/6 0:40
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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At the end of the JCREPORTER article on the tax increase, Healy said things are going well. Go figure!

Quote:

HPDweller wrote:
It seems Healy and Troy have a really special way of making excuses for the problems facing JC. A couple of months ago there was an article in either the Jersey Journal or the Times, I don't remember which, on the topic of crime in the area and one of those two said that at least we're not as bad as Camden !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on: 2006/3/5 22:27
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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If you are reporting a crime in JC and are on a cell phone, dial 201-547-5477.

When the call is answered, the first thing to do is state it is an emergency.

Quote:

Newsboy wrote:
Quote:

jc_insomniac wrote:
Newsboy, thetruth was referring to MrGrieve's post:

Quote:

I was bowled over when I read that. We all know the dispatchers suck, but for Troy to acknowledge it and offer no solution was truly shocking. Perhaps a temporary solution is to call the nearest precinct instead. I did this the last time I had an emergency and the cops came swiftly.


Personally, the last time I had to call re: an emergency, I called (201)547-5477 and saw the dispatched officers very quickly.


The 911 and 5477 operators are the same people.


911/5477 operators and dispatchers are different people doing different jobs.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 22:25
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

jc_insomniac wrote:
Newsboy, thetruth was referring to MrGrieve's post:

Quote:

I was bowled over when I read that. We all know the dispatchers suck, but for Troy to acknowledge it and offer no solution was truly shocking. Perhaps a temporary solution is to call the nearest precinct instead. I did this the last time I had an emergency and the cops came swiftly.


Personally, the last time I had to call re: an emergency, I called (201)547-5477 and saw the dispatched officers very quickly.


The 911 and 5477 operators are the same people.


911/5477 operators and dispatchers are different people doing different jobs.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 22:11
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

JSalt wrote:
Quote:

Newsboy wrote:
Quote:

thetruth wrote:
also, with so many people having cell phones, can someone publish the number/s that should be called in the case of an emergency downtown? i'd like to program these into my phone.


I think it's 911


Sarcastic and illiterate, very nice. The question was about cell phones. 911 on cell phones doesn't get you your local police department.


Don't be stupid. Who are you are getting Hawaii?

When the 911 operator answers they say what agency you got.

All you have to do is ask for Jersey City 911. Most likely your getting the County 911. Dumbass.


Posted on: 2006/3/5 22:07
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

Annod wrote:
I find this paragraph discouraging:

"The Jersey City police acknowledge that the four to seven "call takers" who pass information to dispatchers are neither the most well-paid nor on a particularly high-flying career track."

The police department would be foolish to not promote these jobs as important and worthwhile, and to teach them better customer service. Because these people represent the police department to the public.


I bet this will really motivates these "call takers" to take pride in their jobs. No wonder the JCPD has a morale problem.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 21:04
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

Annod wrote:
I find this paragraph discouraging:

"The Jersey City police acknowledge that the four to seven "call takers" who pass information to dispatchers are neither the most well-paid nor on a particularly high-flying career track.



It seems Healy and Troy have a really special way of making excuses for the problems facing JC. A couple of months ago there was an article in either the Jersey Journal or the Times, I don't remember which, on the topic of crime in the area and one of those two said that at least we're not as bad as Camden !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on: 2006/3/5 18:40
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

injcsince81 wrote:
Quote:

DanL wrote:
Well, I will give Councilman Fulop credit for making noise and creating publicity (negative) on this issue. Also, shrewdly targeting Chief Troy and not Director Jefferson.

Sometimes, the only way to get something done in JC is to create escalating publicity. Results start to occur when the issue gains regional publicity and becomes embarrasing (also shedding unwanted attention).

Councilman Fulop or whomever advised him on this, hit a home run.



You are either kidding or are a Fulop operative.

If you want to mainain any semblance of political impartiality of this website, you'll need to refrain from comments like that.


This has got to be the funniest thing ever written on JC List. The first time DanL gives steven fulop credit and someone calls him a "fulop operative".

injc: take a look at most DanL posts and you will see that he is the farthest thing from being a fulop operative.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 18:12
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

Newsboy wrote:
Quote:

thetruth wrote:
also, with so many people having cell phones, can someone publish the number/s that should be called in the case of an emergency downtown? i'd like to program these into my phone.


I think it's 911


Sarcastic and illiterate, very nice. The question was about cell phones. 911 on cell phones doesn't get you your local police department.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 18:12
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Newsboy, thetruth was referring to MrGrieve's post:

Quote:

I was bowled over when I read that. We all know the dispatchers suck, but for Troy to acknowledge it and offer no solution was truly shocking. Perhaps a temporary solution is to call the nearest precinct instead. I did this the last time I had an emergency and the cops came swiftly.


Personally, the last time I had to call re: an emergency, I called (201)547-5477 and saw the dispatched officers very quickly.



Posted on: 2006/3/5 18:01
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

thetruth wrote:
also, with so many people having cell phones, can someone publish the number/s that should be called in the case of an emergency downtown? i'd like to program these into my phone.


I think it's 911

Posted on: 2006/3/5 17:37
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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I don't care how the issue got to the this point but i am glad it did.
When the Times does that big a story the developers will take notice.Their wasted money in the real estate section will cause them to start calling the mayors office and withholding their campaign money.Now you will see him get off his ass.
As people home shoping complain to the realtors so the realtors
bitch to the developers ect.ect.
I did notice that Troy seemed to blame Healy in a small way.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 17:06
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Quote:

Annod wrote:
I find this paragraph discouraging:

"The Jersey City police acknowledge that the four to seven "call takers" who pass information to dispatchers are neither the most well-paid nor on a particularly high-flying career track."

The police department would be foolish to not promote these jobs as important and worthwhile, and to teach them better customer service. Because these people represent the police department to the public.


I was bowled over when I read that. We all know the dispatchers suck, but for Troy to acknowledge it and offer no solution was truly shocking. Perhaps a temporary solution is to call the nearest precinct instead. I did this the last time I had an emergency and the cops came swiftly.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 16:50
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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RE: Call Takers

if that was indeed "acknowledged" by the police dept that hits the nail on the head. some of the dept thinks doing things the way they always have is good enough. those callers are part of the first line of defense and they should be properly trained.

also, with so many people having cell phones, can someone publish the number/s that should be called in the case of an emergency downtown? i'd like to program these into my phone.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 15:57
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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Quote:

DanL wrote:
Well, I will give Councilman Fulop credit for making noise and creating publicity (negative) on this issue. Also, shrewdly targeting Chief Troy and not Director Jefferson.

Sometimes, the only way to get something done in JC is to create escalating publicity. Results start to occur when the issue gains regional publicity and becomes embarrasing (also shedding unwanted attention).

Councilman Fulop or whomever advised him on this, hit a home run.



You are either kidding or are a Fulop operative.

If you want to mainain any semblance of political impartiality of this website, you'll need to refrain from comments like that.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 15:57
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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I find this paragraph discouraging:

"The Jersey City police acknowledge that the four to seven "call takers" who pass information to dispatchers are neither the most well-paid nor on a particularly high-flying career track."

The police department would be foolish to not promote these jobs as important and worthwhile, and to teach them better customer service. Because these people represent the police department to the public.

Posted on: 2006/3/5 15:49
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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how the hell was the police dept allowed to be this mis-managed? it's allowed to shrink over time while they were able to look forward to this time where half the force is eligible to retire! damn, the leadership of this town has been asleep at the wheel.

i hope a good deal of the PILOT payments resulting from the abatements downtown will go to increasing the police force.

this is the kind of pressure i've been hoping for from the new demographic downtown.

does anyone have other examples of gentrified areas that managed to turn their crime problems around?

Posted on: 2006/3/5 15:49
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Re: Amid the Glitter, JC's Growing Pains
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[quote]
DanL wrote:
Yes, I believe that this article resulted from the local press coverage of Fulop's call for the chief's resignation. I do not think that the deli robbery and the mugging of Council President Vega's wife would have resonated so loudly and crime in general have gotten so much media coverage without it.

What can a councilman do? Be an advocate for change, for maximizing public safety resources, for embracing new techologies and methods, for bringing in outside experience to our police department....

[quote]

The evil Steven Fulop is so powerful as to be able to set the agenda of the New York Times? Wow. How come he isn't mayor already?

Posted on: 2006/3/5 15:49
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