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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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The buildings are owned by Ismael Cruz. Enough said.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 22:37
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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jcneighbor wrote:
You can buy a little outlet tester for maybe $4 that will tell you whether your outlets are properly grounded. It has 3 lights and a simple guide for testing.


I keep one in each of my properties. Yes, I've seen AC cables entering boxes with no clamps at all. There was some CRAZY shit done back in the day, some of it probably even legal at the time. Those cast iron disks that went over the ceiling gaslight pipe to hold cables? No enclosure at all. I've seen them with 7 or 8 cables coming in! The electricians have breakdowns when they see that, because you can't just jam them all in a standard ceiling box.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 21:58
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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Residents displaced from 9 apartments after Downtown Jersey City fire: official

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... o.html#incart_river_index

Posted on: 2016/8/10 20:34
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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Just one more thing about old houses it is amazing to go in the attic/crawl space and look around under the loose mineral wool insulation to find the old gas pipe lines for lighting and the old two wire electrical system that replaced them. Times have changed (I hope they have for the tenants sake).

Posted on: 2016/8/10 20:02
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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brewster wrote:
I once took down a drop ceiling and found an unusual splice of BX cable just hanging there: the wires had been looped together, not even twisted, and then wrapped with tape. No connector, no box. Very little copper to copper surface contact. It's amazing it hadn't melted down.

The good news is our electrical loads are way down. Even with all our new gadgets, the appliances are way more efficient and the lights use less than 25% of what they used to. I still have a 1 bedroom unit running off a single 20A breaker, and they never blow it.

Quote:

jcneighbor wrote:
I would never buy a place that had:
-2-Wire interior wiring, meaning no ground.


I've been told by electricians doing permitted and inspected work that wiring using the armor of AC cable (BX) as ground is fully legal as long as the proper connectors are used. There's a lot of misconception around about this stemming from areas with older NM (romex) cable with no ground. You'll never find that here, at least not legally done, since NM was introduced here much later when 3 conductors was required.


Brewster, That's exactly correct but I didn't get so detailed since not all of know what's even behind the wall plate of a light switch or outlet. Lots of BX connections I've seen that weren't properly clamped for grounding (and therefore had no business having a 3-prong outlet). Haven't seen much Romex wiring around here...

You can buy a little outlet tester for maybe $4 that will tell you whether your outlets are properly grounded. It has 3 lights and a simple guide for testing.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 19:47
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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Damn, per the article, this is the same owner as 345 Grove.

Hopefully this doesn't end up another absolute prime real estate hole in the ground. I really like that block and useful parts of it keep burning down!

Posted on: 2016/8/10 19:44
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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I once took down a drop ceiling and found an unusual splice of BX cable just hanging there: the wires had been looped together, not even twisted, and then wrapped with tape. No connector, no box. Very little copper to copper surface contact. It's amazing it hadn't melted down.

The good news is our electrical loads are way down. Even with all our new gadgets, the appliances are way more efficient and the lights use less than 25% of what they used to. I still have a 1 bedroom unit running off a single 20A breaker, and they never blow it.

Quote:

jcneighbor wrote:
I would never buy a place that had:
-2-Wire interior wiring, meaning no ground.


I've been told by electricians doing permitted and inspected work that wiring using the armor of AC cable (BX) as ground is fully legal as long as the proper connectors are used. There's a lot of misconception around about this stemming from areas with older NM (romex) cable with no ground. You'll never find that here, at least not legally done, since NM was introduced here much later when 3 conductors was required.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 19:27
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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jcneighbor wrote:
.
.
And I've always had proper steel fire escapes on my rental properties. The chain ladder is better than nothing but I'm not sure if that's legal for upper-floor rentals. (Somebody here must know)
.
.
.


Fire ladder was additional precaution for a 3rd floor units that have steel fire escape in back of house. The entrance/stairs are in the middle of the house with bedrooms in the front of the house. The 2 story houses I have don?t require steel fire escapes so I give them the fire ladders in bedrooms.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 19:25
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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I've owned several buildings in DTJC, some my own homes, some rental properties. I'm a super-handy guy who can do his own wiring and plumbing but I would never buy a place that had:
-Knob-and-Tube wiring. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob-and-tube_wiring)
-Aluminum wiring
-2-Wire interior wiring, meaning no ground.
-A common cockloft running the length of many attached houses.

I've seen fires here in JC resulting from all of these things.

And I've always had proper steel fire escapes on my rental properties. The chain ladder is better than nothing but I'm not sure if that's legal for upper-floor rentals. (Somebody here must know)

An electrical outlet is such a static, passive device that to label it a "malfunction" seems ridiculous. More likely an idiot tenant who overloaded the circuit. I've seen WAY too many buildings where wiring rated for no more than 15 amps was running on 20-amp circuit breakers or fuses. Russian Roulette...

Posted on: 2016/8/10 19:19
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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neverleft wrote:
brewster (and tenants) I always made sure tenants on the 2rd or 3rd floor had a collapsible/chain fire ladders. Just as an extra precaution. They can stick them under their beds or in a bedroom closet. HD and Lowes has some.

Resized Image


What a smart idea (you're a great landlord).

Amazon has the model you show for only $35.

https://www.amazon.com/Kidde-Two-Story ... =collapsible+chain+ladder

The 25' model is $53.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 18:58
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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brewster (and tenants) I always made sure tenants on the 2rd or 3rd floor had a collapsible/chain fire ladders. Just as an extra precaution. They can stick them under their beds or in a bedroom closet. HD and Lowes has some.

Resized Image

Posted on: 2016/8/10 18:52
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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JadedJC wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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foshizigity00 wrote:
as a tenant of an old building (just around the corner from this fire too!), this terrifies me as well! it's a looming fear of mine too because i know the electrical in our house is rickety at best. i dont know what else i can do but make sure our smoke alarms are installed, powered, and working properly. o_o


Or, you could move. I am not trying to be snarky, but not amount of savings is worth the life of my family. I have chosen apartments that are perhaps not as convenient in terms of location over others precisely because of similar factors. These old units in old units are downright scary. I have been in apartments where any electrical use causes lights to dim slightly, along with un-grounded outlets, and such. No amount of precaution on your part will have any effect on your neighbors. If they are plugging 20 devices into one outlet and cause a fire, all you will be able to do is (hopefully) evacuate on time and save your life... while losing all possessions.


Exactly. Another reason I was glad to get out of my historic rat trap several years ago. I've seen people run extension cords to their window AC units, among other acts of sheer stupidity. Arrrrrggggh!! Anyway, what is a "cockloft"?

I hope the bike shop isn't out of commission for too long. I'd hate to have to change my own flat tires.


Excerpt from FireEngineering.com:

A cockloft is a small space created when the roof is raised above the level of the flat beams to provide a pitch to drain rain and a vented air space to reduce top-floor temperatures. This is called an ?inverted roof.? In row buildings, it is often the case that while brick nogging might have been used in a na?ve attempt at a fire barrier, the cockloft is continuously open from building to building.

More: Cockloft vs. Attic

(And as an aside, my very first house in JC had a lingering smell of gas in one of the rooms constantly. We had PSEG investigate, contractors, etc. We opened up a wall at one point and found the original lines for the gas lights that used to be in the house were the source of the smell. That and the lick 'em and stick 'em electrical/plumbing throughout the house served as very good (expensive) lessons about the mysteries behind the walls of JC houses).

Posted on: 2016/8/10 18:42
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

foshizigity00 wrote:
as a tenant of an old building (just around the corner from this fire too!), this terrifies me as well! it's a looming fear of mine too because i know the electrical in our house is rickety at best. i dont know what else i can do but make sure our smoke alarms are installed, powered, and working properly. o_o


Or, you could move. I am not trying to be snarky, but not amount of savings is worth the life of my family. I have chosen apartments that are perhaps not as convenient in terms of location over others precisely because of similar factors. These old units in old units are downright scary. I have been in apartments where any electrical use causes lights to dim slightly, along with un-grounded outlets, and such. No amount of precaution on your part will have any effect on your neighbors. If they are plugging 20 devices into one outlet and cause a fire, all you will be able to do is (hopefully) evacuate on time and save your life... while losing all possessions.


Exactly. Another reason I was glad to get out of my historic rat trap several years ago. I've seen people run extension cords to their window AC units, among other acts of sheer stupidity. Arrrrrggggh!! Anyway, what is a "cockloft"?

I hope the bike shop isn't out of commission for too long. I'd hate to have to change my own flat tires.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 18:17
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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foshizigity00 wrote:
as a tenant of an old building (just around the corner from this fire too!), this terrifies me as well! it's a looming fear of mine too because i know the electrical in our house is rickety at best. i dont know what else i can do but make sure our smoke alarms are installed, powered, and working properly. o_o


Or, you could move. I am not trying to be snarky, but not amount of savings is worth the life of my family. I have chosen apartments that are perhaps not as convenient in terms of location over others precisely because of similar factors. These old units in old units are downright scary. I have been in apartments where any electrical use causes lights to dim slightly, along with un-grounded outlets, and such. No amount of precaution on your part will have any effect on your neighbors. If they are plugging 20 devices into one outlet and cause a fire, all you will be able to do is (hopefully) evacuate on time and save your life... while losing all possessions.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 18:10
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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as a tenant of an old building (just around the corner from this fire too!), this terrifies me as well! it's a looming fear of mine too because i know the electrical in our house is rickety at best. i dont know what else i can do but make sure our smoke alarms are installed, powered, and working properly. o_o

Posted on: 2016/8/10 17:59
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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neverleft wrote:
Investigators say the fire appears to have started in a bathroom, and an electrical outlet malfunction is likely to blame.


As a landlord this is terrifying. So many of our JC buildings have ancient wiring, I'm amazed there aren't more fires. Does anyone know if there's a website where the analyses of home fire causes are compiled?


I had a house with ancient wiring. If you wanted to change a light fixture or switch the cloth/plastic wire coating would crumble on touch. Thank goodness for black electrical tape. Don?t even ask about the steel pipe plumbing.

You would think insurance companies would do yearly inspections of houses that they insure. An old-timer neighbor had a house with ancient wiring (and plumbing) his original insurance company hasn?t inspected the property in decades.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 17:37
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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neverleft wrote:
Investigators say the fire appears to have started in a bathroom, and an electrical outlet malfunction is likely to blame.


As a landlord this is terrifying. So many of our JC buildings have ancient wiring, I'm amazed there aren't more fires. Does anyone know if there's a website where the analyses of home fire causes are compiled?

Posted on: 2016/8/10 16:59
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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15 FIREFIGHTERS SUFFER HEAT EXHAUSTION BATTLING JERSEY CITY FIRE

Wednesday, August 10, 2016 12:27PM

JERSEY CITY, New Jersey (WABC) -- More than a dozen firefighters needed medical treatment after battling a three-alarm fire in New Jersey Wednesday morning.

Fifteen firefighters suffered heat exhaustion, with eight of them taken to the hospital for further tests, as they worked to extinguish the blaze on Grove Street in Jersey City.

The flames broke out on the fourth floor of the building just before 9 a.m.

"The plumes came and came," witness Denise Paul said. "I saw the firemen on top of the roof, and the smoke was just tremendous. It was a lot. And then they were sawing into the roof, and flames were coming."

Power lines made it difficult to attack the blaze from the street, so backup support was quickly called in as the fire increased to three alarms.

"Due to the extreme heat and humidity, the guys with all the gear, this is the same gear they wear when it's 5 degrees," Jersey City fire Chief Darren Rivers said. "So when it's 80 or 90 degrees, these guys can lose fluids very rapidly."

Investigators say the fire appears to have started in a bathroom, and an electrical outlet malfunction is likely to blame.

"All I heard was fire trucks, and as soon as I got down, I saw the flames and it was huge," another witness said. "It was really thick, white smoke, and I just got scared and was praying everybody was OK."

It is a multipurpose building and the top three floors are apartments. There is a Laundromat and bike shop on the first floor.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 16:37
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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elsquid wrote:
Grove Street Bikes tweeted that their shop is closed until further notice due to the fire.


I'm very sorry to hear that. The water is what causes much of the damage.

Thanks to the fire eaters that put their lives at risk to save our lives and protect our property. They earn a decent wage and deserve every penny.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 16:36
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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Grove Street Bikes tweeted that their shop is closed until further notice due to the fire.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 16:22
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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neverleft wrote:
Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown Jersey City

By Patrick Villanova | The Jersey Journal
on August 10, 2016 at 9:50 AM, updated August 10, 2016 at 10:06 AM

Firefighters have knocked down a three-alarm blaze above a Downtown Jersey City bicycle shop, Jersey City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill said.

The fire was reported at 365 Grove St. -- above Grove Street Bicycles -- around 9 a.m. Morrill said there is still a heavy firefighter presence at the scene, located at the corner of Grove and First streets.

No injuries were reported and all occupants were safely evacuated from the building, Morrill said.

The city spokeswoman added that the fire appears to have started in the building's cockloft, but noted the cause is still under investigation.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... s.html#incart_2box_hudson


per the linked article, the fire didn't start there:

"Jersey City Fire Chief Darren Rivers said the fire started in a rear bathroom on the top floor of the building and was likely caused by a short in an electric outlet. The chief added that the fire quickly went to a third alarm because a number of power lines made it difficult for firefighters to reach the flames.

Jersey City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill said all occupants were successfully evacuated from the building and that no injuries were reported.

The fire was particularly heavy in the building's cockloft and firefighters need to vent the roof to help quell the flames, Rivers added."

glad everybody got out okay. great work by our bravest.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 16:09
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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HeWhoIs wrote:
From the JJ comments.

** ***

"@Sound Machine Enough of this drivel. Stop reposting to keep it at the top, you mindless city hall employee.

"@Sound Machine This tool 100% works for City Hall. I'd pay money to find out who in city hall this really is."


Who cares? Maybe you should stop trolling.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 16:05
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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From the JJ comments.

** ***

"@Sound Machine Enough of this drivel. Stop reposting to keep it at the top, you mindless city hall employee.

"@Sound Machine This tool 100% works for City Hall. I'd pay money to find out who in city hall this really is."

Posted on: 2016/8/10 15:53
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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EasyGibson wrote:
Can we take a moment to appreciate our public servants?

I was out getting coffee this morning and watched this whole thing unfold around the corner from me.
Police and firefighters were on the scene lickity split, and had the necessary streets blocked off with officers stationed at intersections directing traffic to both keep commuters moving and to let EMS vehicles through.
The firefighters were up on the roof with demo saws and hoses taking care of business in no time. It was great to watch people that knew what they were doing do it with speed and confidence. It takes some guts(read: balls) to stand on a roof right next to a flame as tall as you are and still manage to get the job done.

So yeah, that's all. Thanks to everybody that was out there taking care of business this morning. It looked like the fire was controlled very quickly so hopefully there's minimal property damage and personal loss.

All the best to everybody affected in the building. Been a rough couple years for that section of Grove St. there.


Can not agree more with this. It takes serious devotion to be a firefighter, and it seems to go unappreciated all too often. Hopefully damage will be limited and not all the building families will get displaced.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 15:34
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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Can we take a moment to appreciate our public servants?

I was out getting coffee this morning and watched this whole thing unfold around the corner from me.
Police and firefighters were on the scene lickity split, and had the necessary streets blocked off with officers stationed at intersections directing traffic to both keep commuters moving and to let EMS vehicles through.
The firefighters were up on the roof with demo saws and hoses taking care of business in no time. It was great to watch people that knew what they were doing do it with speed and confidence. It takes some guts(read: balls) to stand on a roof right next to a flame as tall as you are and still manage to get the job done.

So yeah, that's all. Thanks to everybody that was out there taking care of business this morning. It looked like the fire was controlled very quickly so hopefully there's minimal property damage and personal loss.

All the best to everybody affected in the building. Been a rough couple years for that section of Grove St. there.

Posted on: 2016/8/10 15:11
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Re: Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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neverleft wrote:
Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown Jersey City

By Patrick Villanova | The Jersey Journal
on August 10, 2016 at 9:50 AM, updated August 10, 2016 at 10:06 AM

Firefighters have knocked down a three-alarm blaze above a Downtown Jersey City bicycle shop, Jersey City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill said.

The fire was reported at 365 Grove St. -- above Grove Street Bicycles -- around 9 a.m. Morrill said there is still a heavy firefighter presence at the scene, located at the corner of Grove and First streets.

No injuries were reported and all occupants were safely evacuated from the building, Morrill said.

The city spokeswoman added that the fire appears to have started in the building's cockloft, but noted the cause is still under investigation.

video of fire-
http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... s.html#incart_2box_hudson


Horrible for Grove Bikes and the tenants in the building.
Grove Bikes first wiped out by Sandy and now this. There must be significant water and smoke damage in the basement...

Posted on: 2016/8/10 15:06
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Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown JC
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Firefighters battle 3-alarm blaze in Downtown Jersey City

By Patrick Villanova | The Jersey Journal
on August 10, 2016 at 9:50 AM, updated August 10, 2016 at 10:06 AM

Firefighters have knocked down a three-alarm blaze above a Downtown Jersey City bicycle shop, Jersey City spokeswoman Jennifer Morrill said.

The fire was reported at 365 Grove St. -- above Grove Street Bicycles -- around 9 a.m. Morrill said there is still a heavy firefighter presence at the scene, located at the corner of Grove and First streets.

No injuries were reported and all occupants were safely evacuated from the building, Morrill said.

The city spokeswoman added that the fire appears to have started in the building's cockloft, but noted the cause is still under investigation.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/20 ... s.html#incart_2box_hudson

Posted on: 2016/8/10 14:26
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