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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Posted on: 2016/5/2 15:21
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

thor800 wrote:
Quick appraisal of every property in town ?

Is that even possible ?


It won't be quick. If history is any indication, the process will be protracted and painful. But it is necessary.


any idea how long it would take before taxes change post-reval? 6 months? 1 year? 2 years?

Posted on: 2016/5/2 14:23
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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SOS wrote:
Much of the information in this thread is incorrect. I spoke to my sources in the city. They are shooting for $25 per thousand post reval. That's 2.5% which is the number they're hoping for. Don't expect it to be lower than that. And the city doesn't talk about percentages. It's always ** dollars per thousand.
Expect some significant spending cuts and revenue generation to have a post reval rate at or close to $25. This could be very ugly.


This makes no sense. The reval, by law, must be revenue neutral. All else equal, the city will have the exact amount in revenue before the reval when compared to after one. The only things that changes is the amount each property owner will pay. The city can have a "target" of whatever it wants, but it's all speculation until after the reval and the full ratabale base is known.

You're being fed lies if someone at the city suggested there would be significant spending cuts because of a reval. The revenue to the city stays exactly the same!

The biggest losers are going to be the large land owners around the waterfront, Newport Mall (which has seen its abatement expire), most of the homeowners in Ward E, and certain property owners on Ogden Avenue.

The winners will be owners who've made improvements on their properties and were reassessed at the current rate, and those poor souls in Greenville which are currently paying up to 5,6, or even 7 percent of their property's value in taxes. Their politicians have been doing a disservice for years as the current tax policy favors the wealthy downtown homeowner, who are paying 1 percent or less than their properties values in taxes.

$25 per thousand is meaningless until the full ratabale base is known. It could be $15 per thousand, or the consensus $21 per thousand. No one will know for sure on what the amount will be, or what the actual taxes until the reval is complete.

I also love the conspiracy theory that the city will hire an appraiser to purposely undervalue all properties. This city would still receive the exact same amount in revenue, and if consistently under appraising, it would not make a difference in the taxes owned by property owners. Where do people come up with this stuff?

I really wish the bs and misinformation on the reval would stop and just get on with it.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 21:17
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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La_Verdad wrote:
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brewster wrote:
Now tell us where you believe this process will go sideways.


The city hires an appraiser who will underappraise.


I think this would be a lot harder to pull off today than it would be before everyone's assessment is a just a click away. You can't have a place sell for $1m and then appraise $600k. It's going to be a huge squawkfest even if done in good faith, but if a pattern of under appraisal of certain areas appeared there would be blood in the water. I can't believe anyone would be that stupid, but given the path this has taken so far, I guess nothing can be ruled out.

But either way that still leaves us with the same levy, and no budget issues like SOS is scaring people with.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 20:10
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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La_Verdad wrote:
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brewster wrote:
Now tell us where you believe this process will go sideways.


The city hires an appraiser who will underappraise. Seems pretty straightforward. And, I must say, politically its a brilliant way out of a pretty big mess of his own making for Fulop. (It also could be the beginning of the end if malfeasance is proven.) This issue - not righting an economic disparity that disproportionately affects the poor when he had the power to do so, made doubly worse by the fact that it was by and large the poor subsidizing much wealthier people - was/is probably going to be the issue he'll be attacked most on during the gubernatorial campaign. That's a tough sell to democratic voters in NJ.

Now, he'll package his big box of turd with a wrapping paper of "I was fighting for a just solution and was the victim of politics" and a ribbon of "I cut taxes!"


I guess we have arrived at the junction where all the people who distrust the government start to spew their conspiracy theories. It makes ABSOLUTELY zero sense to hire a company willing to "under assess" or "under appraise" all properties to somehow make this situation better. If they under assess all properties, it means that the tax rate will have to be THAT MUCH HIGHER to end up with an overall tax levy that is equal to the one from the year before. Some of you seem to be missing that point: after a revaluation, the tax levy for JC must be IDENTICAL to what was collected the year before. The only thing that changes is how that levy is apportioned among all homeowners.

Unless, of course, you are trying to imply that they will hire a company that will be instructed to under appraise all DTJC properties, and over appraise property in other neighborhoods. That would require some top-grade, A-level kind of corruption and collusion that is likely to get easily exposed at some point.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 20:04
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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brewster wrote:
Now tell us where you believe this process will go sideways.


The city hires an appraiser who will underappraise. Seems pretty straightforward. And, I must say, politically its a brilliant way out of a pretty big mess of his own making for Fulop. (It also could be the beginning of the end if malfeasance is proven.) This issue - not righting an economic disparity that disproportionately affects the poor when he had the power to do so, made doubly worse by the fact that it was by and large the poor subsidizing much wealthier people - was/is probably going to be the issue he'll be attacked most on during the gubernatorial campaign. That's a tough sell to democratic voters in NJ.

Now, he'll package his big box of turd with a wrapping paper of "I was fighting for a just solution and was the victim of politics" and a ribbon of "I cut taxes!"

Posted on: 2016/4/27 19:47
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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SOS wrote:
Nothing nefarious going on. The budget will be reduced - somehow. Like I said "Expect some significant spending cuts and revenue generation" - reducing the city's payroll is the low hanging fruit I'd imagine. Your guess is as good as mine what else can possibly be cut.


Lets try it from the top and then you say where it goes wrong and brings in less taxes.

City appraises all properties

Then they add the value together, lets call that value 100

Divide the current total levy (lets call it 2) by the new value (100) and you get the new rate.

Ex: 2/100=0.02=2%

Which yields the same levy as the old rate from the new assessments. This is the process the law requires. Now tell us where you believe this process will go sideways.



Posted on: 2016/4/27 17:15
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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brewster wrote:
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SOS wrote:
There's an incentive to lower the overall tax levy to meet the challenges of the reval.


Can you explain that? Are you saying you believe they'll deliberately under-appraise the most valuable properties to hold down their taxes, thus lowering the levy?...


Nothing nefarious going on. The budget will be reduced - somehow. Like I said "Expect some significant spending cuts and revenue generation" - reducing the city's payroll is the low hanging fruit I'd imagine. Provisional employees are at risk. Your guess is as good as mine what else can possibly be cut.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 17:00
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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SOS wrote:
There's an incentive to lower the overall tax levy to meet the challenges of the reval.


Can you explain that? Are you saying you believe they'll deliberately under-appraise the most valuable properties to hold down their taxes, thus lowering the levy?

I do understand the problem here is that the government has squandered it's good faith from citizens, so expecting fair dealing is more than some can muster. It's a bad rabbit hole to go down, look at China, India and other places mired in corruption of local officials.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 16:28
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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SOS wrote:
Much of the information in this thread is incorrect. I spoke to my sources in the city. They are shooting for $25 per thousand post reval. That's 2.5% which is the number they're hoping for. Don't expect it to be lower than that. And the city doesn't talk about percentages. It's always ** dollars per thousand.
Expect some significant spending cuts and revenue generation to have a post reval rate at or close to $25. This could be very ugly.


Given that the reval is BY LAW, supposed to end up with the exact same amount of revenue, I don't see how you can conclude there will need to be budget changes even IF your intel is correct.

To have the effective rate rise to that extent means that they think the city as a whole is currently overvalued, and would need a higher rate to bring in the same money from a smaller base than the estimate they now use. Possible, but it seems less likely than it's a little undervalued, given the current rate of appreciation.

I wish I could say that it's ridiculous for anyone to be "shooting" for anything, given that the numbers should have complete control. But I've had too many obviously fudged appraisals to believe that it can't be gamed. All you need to do is change the sq footage to hit your target number. I've held the tape for bank appraisers and seen them get it wrong by 20%.

$/k or whatever, it's still just numbers, certain cultures have different nomenclature. Wall St & lenders refers to 1% as "a point", but bond traders "use basis points" to refer to 0.01%. It really makes no difference as long as people know what you're talking about, but sometimes it seems the 'point' is to be obscure.


Huh believe what you want but that's how government works. There's an incentive to lower the overall tax levy to meet the challenges of the reval. No need to shoot the messenger. We can continue this discussion in a few years and see who's right. And that will be me.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 16:09
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SOS wrote:
Much of the information in this thread is incorrect. I spoke to my sources in the city. They are shooting for $25 per thousand post reval. That's 2.5% which is the number they're hoping for. Don't expect it to be lower than that. And the city doesn't talk about percentages. It's always ** dollars per thousand.
Expect some significant spending cuts and revenue generation to have a post reval rate at or close to $25. This could be very ugly.


Given that the reval is BY LAW, supposed to end up with the exact same amount of revenue, I don't see how you can conclude there will need to be budget changes even IF your intel is correct.

To have the effective rate rise to that extent means that they think the city as a whole is currently overvalued, and would need a higher rate to bring in the same money from a smaller base than the estimate they now use. Possible, but it seems less likely than it's a little undervalued, given the current rate of appreciation.

I wish I could say that it's ridiculous for anyone to be "shooting" for anything, given that the numbers should have complete control. But I've had too many obviously fudged appraisals to believe that it can't be gamed. All you need to do is change the sq footage to hit your target number. I've held the tape for bank appraisers and seen them get it wrong by 20%.

$/k or whatever, it's still just numbers, certain cultures have different nomenclature. Wall St & lenders refers to 1% as "a point", but bond traders "use basis points" to refer to 0.01%. It really makes no difference as long as people know what you're talking about, but sometimes it seems the 'point' is to be obscure.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 15:51
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Much of the information in this thread is incorrect. I spoke to my sources in the city. They are shooting for $25 per thousand post reval. That's 2.5% which is the number they're hoping for. Don't expect it to be lower than that. And the city doesn't talk about percentages. It's always ** dollars per thousand.
Expect some significant spending cuts and revenue generation to have a post reval rate at or close to $25. This could be very ugly.

Posted on: 2016/4/27 15:26
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Voyeur wrote:

Folks on this thread have said homes in GV and the Heights are paying a disproportionate percentage in taxes above 2.1%. Is this actually the case? If I understand things correctly, for this to have occurred, these homes have to have a lower value today than they did in 1988 meaning that their current tax burden is northward of 2.1%.

I would have thought that almost every home in JC has appreciated at least somewhat since 1988 - even on MLK and Ocean Ave. Are their really any areas of JC where you will find a house assessed today at a lower value than it was assessed 28 years ago - and consequently paying more than 2.1%?

The point I'm trying to make is, just because DTJC is underpaying on its tax, it doesn't necessarily follow that the other hoods are consequently overpaying on property tax and are due for a tax reduction. The under-taxation of DT has no bearing on whether homes in Greenville are paying 2.1% of their assessed value or not - the relationship between the two is not causal.



Yes, it does mean other areas are overpaying. It's a ratio, if the tax bill on those properties has gone up over the years by a higher percentage than the increase in property values then they are paying more than 2.1%

Let's say we have two homes of the same value:

200k in 1988, paying 2.1% in taxes so, 4.2k

In 2016 the total tax ratio is still 2.1%
DT house is 800k paying 11.6k in taxes 1.44%
Not DT house is 300k paying 11.6k in taxes. 3.85%


The ratio of the DT house is below the 2.1 the ratio, the not DT above.

If the ratio remained unchanged it would look like this

800k house 16.8k
300k house 6.3k

Posted on: 2016/4/26 12:45
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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the 3/5 of tax payers who would have seen decreases in their tax bills would have been better off.

the mayor and council did not cause the growing disparity, but by fighting the reval, spending tax payer monies to try to stall and stop it, by putting forth a nonsensical and convoluted argument that all values in the city are derived from a downtown brownstone (even if a unit is abated), and by doing absolutely nothing the past three year to help mitigate the disruption and by allowing racial disparity to continue where poor minorities subsidize wealthy whites , they now own it and are responsible for this new look at "jersey city - make it yours."

the mayor and council could have, but did not right a wrong.

Quote:

thor800 wrote:
Whos to say the city would have been better off had the reval actually taken place ?

I wonder mostly about australian REIT Dixon

Posted on: 2016/4/26 1:08
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Whos to say the city would have been better off had the reval actually taken place ?

I wonder mostly about australian REIT Dixon

Posted on: 2016/4/26 0:42
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Curious as to what will happen to the Newport Mall tax rates after the reval. I think their abatement expired years ago.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 17:09
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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JCGuys wrote:
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
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bodhipooh wrote:
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AMo wrote:

In the three years that elapsed since the mayor's decision to cancel the reval, property values downtown have climbed sharply. Ironically, the very same affluent constituents that the mayor was protecting will see even bigger tax increases than they would have had he gone ahead with the reval three years ago.


This is the true irony in this mess.


They did skip out on 3 years of higher taxes, though.


Maybe more than that...


Definitely much more but I'm just referring to the period in which Fulop should have done the reval but blocked it.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 17:05
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

bodhipooh wrote:
Quote:

AMo wrote:

In the three years that elapsed since the mayor's decision to cancel the reval, property values downtown have climbed sharply. Ironically, the very same affluent constituents that the mayor was protecting will see even bigger tax increases than they would have had he gone ahead with the reval three years ago.


This is the true irony in this mess.


They did skip out on 3 years of higher taxes, though.


Maybe more than that...

Posted on: 2016/4/25 16:38
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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bodhipooh wrote:
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AMo wrote:

In the three years that elapsed since the mayor's decision to cancel the reval, property values downtown have climbed sharply. Ironically, the very same affluent constituents that the mayor was protecting will see even bigger tax increases than they would have had he gone ahead with the reval three years ago.


This is the true irony in this mess.


They did skip out on 3 years of higher taxes, though.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 15:59
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Interesting wording using the chicken metaphor. I wonder how Reverand Weight is these days.

Posted on: 2016/4/25 15:54
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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AMo wrote:

In the three years that elapsed since the mayor's decision to cancel the reval, property values downtown have climbed sharply. Ironically, the very same affluent constituents that the mayor was protecting will see even bigger tax increases than they would have had he gone ahead with the reval three years ago.


This is the true irony in this mess.

Posted on: 2016/4/23 21:59
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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By Jersey Journal Guest Columnist
on April 23, 2016 at 9:00 AM, updated April 23, 2016 at 9:09 AM
By AARON MORRILL

The chickens have finally come home to roost on Mayor Steve Fulop's plan to kick the revaluation can down the road to Trenton. Superior Court Judge Francis B. Schultz has issued his long awaited ruling finding that Jersey City breached its contract with Realty Appraisal Co. when it canceled a revaluation of Jersey City properties begun under the previous administration.

Only days before, at a raucous meeting of community groups, a local pastor forced the mayor to defend himself against accusations that his policies favor downtown property owners.

As bad as these developments are for the mayor's reputation as a fiscally responsible progressive, the fallout for Jersey City taxpayers is worse. Taxpayers are now on the hook for the entire 3.2 million owed to Realty for now unusable services and, in addition, for legal fees that will, no doubt, grow to half a million dollars if the city appeals. In all, the city will have wasted close to four million dollars. But the costs don't end there.

In the three years that elapsed since the mayor's decision to cancel the reval, property values downtown have climbed sharply. Ironically, the very same affluent constituents that the mayor was protecting will see even bigger tax increases than they would have had he gone ahead with the reval three years ago. Recent buyers of the most expensive non-abated properties may well see their homes' values go down once the market absorbs their new higher tax burdens. Finally, for three long years, as the mayor pursued his ill-advised and losing court case, non-downtown property owners paid substantially more than their fair share of property taxes.

Fulop, Jersey City pastor spar over revaluation
Fulop, Jersey City pastor spar over revaluation
New Jersey tax officials last week ordered Jersey City to complete a citywide reval by November 2017.
It would be nice if the mayor had an excuse for creating this mess. But he doesn't.

His trumped up argument that a prior business administrator had improperly influenced the selection of Realty was contradicted by the city's own employees and emphatically rejected by the court. His argument that the reval would be "devastating" to property owners was disingenuous at best.

Yes, the mayor was right that taxes would go up downtown. But what he conveniently left unsaid was that residents of less affluent neighborhoods would actually see their taxes go down with a reval.

At every opportunity, the mayor has touted his credentials as a former Marine, a progressive and a responsible steward of the public purse. After cowering from the reval, can it be said that he lived up to the Marines' core value of courage?

By over-taxing less affluent neighborhoods, can he lay the claim to the mantle of a progressive?

And by wasting millions of taxpayer money, can he claim to be fiscally responsible?

The mayor should now ponder these questions.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Aaron Morrill is a lawyer, businessman and Jersey City community activist.



Interesting comments....

http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2 ... d.html#incart_river_index


Posted on: 2016/4/23 19:18
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By Jersey Journal Guest Columnist
on April 23, 2016 at 9:00 AM, updated April 23, 2016 at 9:09 AM
By AARON MORRILL

The chickens have finally come home to roost on Mayor Steve Fulop's plan to kick the revaluation can down the road to Trenton. Superior Court Judge Francis B. Schultz has issued his long awaited ruling finding that Jersey City breached its contract with Realty Appraisal Co. when it canceled a revaluation of Jersey City properties begun under the previous administration.

Only days before, at a raucous meeting of community groups, a local pastor forced the mayor to defend himself against accusations that his policies favor downtown property owners.

As bad as these developments are for the mayor's reputation as a fiscally responsible progressive, the fallout for Jersey City taxpayers is worse. Taxpayers are now on the hook for the entire 3.2 million owed to Realty for now unusable services and, in addition, for legal fees that will, no doubt, grow to half a million dollars if the city appeals. In all, the city will have wasted close to four million dollars. But the costs don't end there.

In the three years that elapsed since the mayor's decision to cancel the reval, property values downtown have climbed sharply. Ironically, the very same affluent constituents that the mayor was protecting will see even bigger tax increases than they would have had he gone ahead with the reval three years ago. Recent buyers of the most expensive non-abated properties may well see their homes' values go down once the market absorbs their new higher tax burdens. Finally, for three long years, as the mayor pursued his ill-advised and losing court case, non-downtown property owners paid substantially more than their fair share of property taxes.

Fulop, Jersey City pastor spar over revaluation
Fulop, Jersey City pastor spar over revaluation
New Jersey tax officials last week ordered Jersey City to complete a citywide reval by November 2017.
It would be nice if the mayor had an excuse for creating this mess. But he doesn't.

His trumped up argument that a prior business administrator had improperly influenced the selection of Realty was contradicted by the city's own employees and emphatically rejected by the court. His argument that the reval would be "devastating" to property owners was disingenuous at best.

Yes, the mayor was right that taxes would go up downtown. But what he conveniently left unsaid was that residents of less affluent neighborhoods would actually see their taxes go down with a reval.

At every opportunity, the mayor has touted his credentials as a former Marine, a progressive and a responsible steward of the public purse. After cowering from the reval, can it be said that he lived up to the Marines' core value of courage?

By over-taxing less affluent neighborhoods, can he lay the claim to the mantle of a progressive?

And by wasting millions of taxpayer money, can he claim to be fiscally responsible?

The mayor should now ponder these questions.

EDITOR'S NOTE: Aaron Morrill is a lawyer, businessman and Jersey City community activist.

Posted on: 2016/4/23 18:33
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stateaidguy wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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stateaidguy wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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stateaidguy wrote:
If Jersey City loses state aid it is to HELP poorer districts.


What metric do we use to determine which city is "poorer" in this context?

Median individual income?
Median Family income?
Property tax paid per capita?

A lot has been made of JC's development, but 3/4 of the city is still relatively poor by NJ standards.


SFRA does a pretty good job of evaluating a district's needs and tax capacity.

Needs is the Adequacy Budget. It is the enrollment with extra weights for poor kids, ESL kids, and then an extra multiplier for concentrated poverty.

Tax Capacity is the Local Fair Share. It is a hybrid that depends on Equalized Valuation and Aggregate Income.

If a district's Adequacy Budget is greater than its Local Fair Share it is supposed to get Equalization Aid.

If LFS is greater than Adequacy Budget it doesn't get Equalization Aid.

If Adequacy Budget is $60 million and Local Fair Share is $45 million, a district is supposed to pay $45 million in taxes and get $15 million in Equalization Aid. (In reality, chances are the district will not get $15 million in Equalization Aid.)

There are aids for sped, transportation, and security, but these are smaller streams and to keep things simple I won't address them here.

Ok, so JC has $21,661,162,459 in EV. It has $7,454,497,639 in Aggregate Income.

Put them together in the formula for LFS and you get $330 million.

And what is JC's actual tax levy?

$112 million

Now let's compare Jersey City to ... say BELLEVILLE. (just a random local working class example.)

Belleville's EV = $2,790,454,316. Agg Income = $916,370,877.

And Belleville's tax levy?

$38 million.

So are you kidding me when you tell me that you can't pay more in taxes when a town with a ninth of your valuation pays a third of your tax levy?



I think I followed that, it is a little arcane and hard to reproduce playing at home. Could you define Equalized Valuation and Aggregate Income? Am I correct in believing the 'equalized value' does not include abated property at all? Or is it squeezed in there somehow?

Actually, we should shove this digression over to the appropriate thread, since the one thing we all agree on is it has nothing to do with the reval.


EV is the market value of property in a town. It is calculated annually by the county tax assessor. If real estate sales exceed assessed values by 20% on average, the assessor multiples the assessed value by 1.2 to get Equalized Valuation.

EV doesn't include abated property. It only includes taxable real estate. (which might include land values for abated properties since land taxes are usually not abated.)

Aggregate Income is total income. I am not exactly 100% sure how this is computed. The people at the DOE I asked didn't know because the data is calculated by the Treasury, not the DOE.

However, The income of residents of PILOTed buildings definitely does count towards Aggregate Income, so if you want to make another anti-PILOT argument you could say that PILOTed properties slightly increase JC's Local Fair Share even though they pay no school taxes.

(JC's aid is determined by Adjustment Aid anyway, so, unless Adjustment Aid is reformed, JC's LFS is irrelevant to its aid total.)

The actual formula for LFS for 2016-17 is


(Equalized Valuation x 0.013156218 + Aggregate Income x 0.046185507)/2


The formula for LFS changes slightly year to year, so you can't compare a district's LFS from one year to another, but within a FY year, you can compare a district's LFS to another district's.

JC's LFS = $330 million.
Edison is #2, but its LFS is only $195 million.

So JC's tax base is 60% larger than the #2 town in NJ.


Replying in the Abbott thread

Posted on: 2016/4/21 3:06
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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brewster wrote:
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stateaidguy wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

stateaidguy wrote:
If Jersey City loses state aid it is to HELP poorer districts.


What metric do we use to determine which city is "poorer" in this context?

Median individual income?
Median Family income?
Property tax paid per capita?

A lot has been made of JC's development, but 3/4 of the city is still relatively poor by NJ standards.


SFRA does a pretty good job of evaluating a district's needs and tax capacity.

Needs is the Adequacy Budget. It is the enrollment with extra weights for poor kids, ESL kids, and then an extra multiplier for concentrated poverty.

Tax Capacity is the Local Fair Share. It is a hybrid that depends on Equalized Valuation and Aggregate Income.

If a district's Adequacy Budget is greater than its Local Fair Share it is supposed to get Equalization Aid.

If LFS is greater than Adequacy Budget it doesn't get Equalization Aid.

If Adequacy Budget is $60 million and Local Fair Share is $45 million, a district is supposed to pay $45 million in taxes and get $15 million in Equalization Aid. (In reality, chances are the district will not get $15 million in Equalization Aid.)

There are aids for sped, transportation, and security, but these are smaller streams and to keep things simple I won't address them here.

Ok, so JC has $21,661,162,459 in EV. It has $7,454,497,639 in Aggregate Income.

Put them together in the formula for LFS and you get $330 million.

And what is JC's actual tax levy?

$112 million

Now let's compare Jersey City to ... say BELLEVILLE. (just a random local working class example.)

Belleville's EV = $2,790,454,316. Agg Income = $916,370,877.

And Belleville's tax levy?

$38 million.

So are you kidding me when you tell me that you can't pay more in taxes when a town with a ninth of your valuation pays a third of your tax levy?



I think I followed that, it is a little arcane and hard to reproduce playing at home. Could you define Equalized Valuation and Aggregate Income? Am I correct in believing the 'equalized value' does not include abated property at all? Or is it squeezed in there somehow?

Actually, we should shove this digression over to the appropriate thread, since the one thing we all agree on is it has nothing to do with the reval.


EV is the market value of property in a town. It is calculated annually by the county tax assessor. If real estate sales exceed assessed values by 20% on average, the assessor multiples the assessed value by 1.2 to get Equalized Valuation.

EV doesn't include abated property. It only includes taxable real estate. (which might include land values for abated properties since land taxes are usually not abated.)

Aggregate Income is total income. I am not exactly 100% sure how this is computed. The people at the DOE I asked didn't know because the data is calculated by the Treasury, not the DOE.

However, The income of residents of PILOTed buildings definitely does count towards Aggregate Income, so if you want to make another anti-PILOT argument you could say that PILOTed properties slightly increase JC's Local Fair Share even though they pay no school taxes.

(JC's aid is determined by Adjustment Aid anyway, so, unless Adjustment Aid is reformed, JC's LFS is irrelevant to its aid total.)

The actual formula for LFS for 2016-17 is


(Equalized Valuation x 0.013156218 + Aggregate Income x 0.046185507)/2


The formula for LFS changes slightly year to year, so you can't compare a district's LFS from one year to another, but within a FY year, you can compare a district's LFS to another district's.

JC's LFS = $330 million.
Edison is #2, but its LFS is only $195 million.

So JC's tax base is 60% larger than the #2 town in NJ.

Posted on: 2016/4/21 2:42
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Quote:

stateaidguy wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

stateaidguy wrote:
If Jersey City loses state aid it is to HELP poorer districts.


What metric do we use to determine which city is "poorer" in this context?

Median individual income?
Median Family income?
Property tax paid per capita?

A lot has been made of JC's development, but 3/4 of the city is still relatively poor by NJ standards.


SFRA does a pretty good job of evaluating a district's needs and tax capacity.

Needs is the Adequacy Budget. It is the enrollment with extra weights for poor kids, ESL kids, and then an extra multiplier for concentrated poverty.

Tax Capacity is the Local Fair Share. It is a hybrid that depends on Equalized Valuation and Aggregate Income.

If a district's Adequacy Budget is greater than its Local Fair Share it is supposed to get Equalization Aid.

If LFS is greater than Adequacy Budget it doesn't get Equalization Aid.

If Adequacy Budget is $60 million and Local Fair Share is $45 million, a district is supposed to pay $45 million in taxes and get $15 million in Equalization Aid. (In reality, chances are the district will not get $15 million in Equalization Aid.)

There are aids for sped, transportation, and security, but these are smaller streams and to keep things simple I won't address them here.

Ok, so JC has $21,661,162,459 in EV. It has $7,454,497,639 in Aggregate Income.

Put them together in the formula for LFS and you get $330 million.

And what is JC's actual tax levy?

$112 million

Now let's compare Jersey City to ... say BELLEVILLE. (just a random local working class example.)

Belleville's EV = $2,790,454,316. Agg Income = $916,370,877.

And Belleville's tax levy?

$38 million.

So are you kidding me when you tell me that you can't pay more in taxes when a town with a ninth of your valuation pays a third of your tax levy?



I think I followed that, it is a little arcane and hard to reproduce playing at home. Could you define Equalized Valuation and Aggregate Income? Am I correct in believing the 'equalized value' does not include abated property at all? Or is it squeezed in there somehow?

Actually, we should shove this digression over to the "Will Jersey City and Hoboken ever lose Abbott District Status?" thread, since the one thing we all agree on is it has nothing to do with the reval.

Posted on: 2016/4/21 2:32
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Yvonne wrote:
No, it will mean non abated Jersey City taxpayers will pay $4,000 to 6,000 more in board of ed funding to the school district if $224 million is required from local taxpayers.


This would depend on how much aid Jersey City loses, but yes, school taxes will go up.

My question to you is if you consider this unfair or just really bad?

Because yes, it's bad for Jersey City, but I can't see it as unfair.

Posted on: 2016/4/21 2:27
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

stateaidguy wrote:
If Jersey City loses state aid it is to HELP poorer districts.


What metric do we use to determine which city is "poorer" in this context?

Median individual income?
Median Family income?
Property tax paid per capita?

A lot has been made of JC's development, but 3/4 of the city is still relatively poor by NJ standards.


SFRA does a pretty good job of evaluating a district's needs and tax capacity.

Needs is the Adequacy Budget. It is the enrollment with extra weights for poor kids, ESL kids, and then an extra multiplier for concentrated poverty.

Tax Capacity is the Local Fair Share. It is a hybrid that depends on Equalized Valuation and Aggregate Income.

If a district's Adequacy Budget is greater than its Local Fair Share it is supposed to get Equalization Aid.

If LFS is greater than Adequacy Budget it doesn't get Equalization Aid.

If Adequacy Budget is $60 million and Local Fair Share is $45 million, a district is supposed to pay $45 million in taxes and get $15 million in Equalization Aid. (In reality, chances are the district will not get $15 million in Equalization Aid.)

There are aids for sped, transportation, and security, but these are smaller streams and to keep things simple I won't address them here.

Ok, so JC has $21,661,162,459 in EV. It has $7,454,497,639 in Aggregate Income.

Put them together in the formula for LFS and you get $330 million.

And what is JC's actual tax levy?

$112 million

Now let's compare Jersey City to ... say BELLEVILLE. (just a random local working class example.)

Belleville's EV = $2,790,454,316. Agg Income = $916,370,877.

And Belleville's tax levy?

$38 million.

Don't think for a second it works out evenly for the schools so that Belleville makes up for the lack of state aid through local taxes. Belleville's per student spending is $11,500 / student. JC's is $17,500.

Or how about CLIFTON.

Clifton's EV = $9,338,262,677. Agg Income = $2,436,426,722.

Clifton's local tax levy? $125,842,752

I'm not a math genius, but Clifton and Belleville look like they are paying a lot more proportionally than Jersey City.

So are you kidding me when you tell me that you can't pay more in taxes when a town with a ninth of your valuation pays a third of your tax levy?

As for Jersey City's students being 70% FRL-eligible... Yes, that's why JC's Adequacy Budget per student is over $20k. If JC got its exact uncapped aid it would still be about $9k per student in state aid.

You have to realize that JC has proportionally very few students. JC has 120,000 more people than Paterson but only 6,000 more students.

JC and Newark are at near parity in overall population, but Newark has 18,000 more students.

Posted on: 2016/4/21 2:21
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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Monroe wrote:
If changes in 'adjustment aid' go through it'll partly be because of the political optics on Jersey City over PILOTS and undervalued properties I'd think.


Isn't it fascinating the emphasis on the undervalued properties by these blowhards, ignoring the fact that other properties here are overvalued dollar for dollar. They're counting on the fact that NJ voters are as ignorant of reval mechanics as JC voters.

Posted on: 2016/4/21 2:16
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Re: Jersey City mayor-elect orders end to citywide reval
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stateaidguy wrote:
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Monroe wrote:
The reval will certainly have an impact on this

http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/16 ... ut-of-touch-with-reality/



No! The reval and state aid are independent (despite what Sen. Mike Doherty has said.)

In theory, state aid is supposed to depend on Equalized Valuation and Equalized Valuation is already recalculated every year.

And for Jersey City state aid depends on Adjustment Aid.

http://njeducationaid.blogspot.com/20 ... ty-reassessment-wont.html


If changes in 'adjustment aid' go through it'll partly be because of the political optics on Jersey City over PILOTS and undervalued properties I'd think.

Posted on: 2016/4/21 1:20
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