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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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This is also not the same thing as eminent domain because the sale of the property to Hyman was not done in accordance with federal law.

Posted on: 2016/4/14 14:32
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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How did the property increase in value from $3 million to $100 million from the time Hyman illegally purchased it? I am sure that there was some appreciation but certainly not at that level.

I suspect the issue is that this is not just about Hyman but also Conrail looking for a straw purchaser to develop the land.

Posted on: 2016/4/14 14:31
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Quote:

hero69 wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

psyop wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

radryan03 wrote:
That's right - change the subject...

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


No I am not changing the subject, how can this be a park if it is zone to be a rail spur? The city took a private citizen's property who is paying taxes for the purpose of a park that the ordinance say will be a rail spur. Let me repeat, take Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


If pretty much everyone called BS on what I said over and over and over again I hope I'd realize that there was something wrong with me and I'd get some help.


So stealing someone's property is no big deal. If for any reason Hyman wins his case in the courts and starts to develop the property I will still speak against any tax abatements he might seek, but it is wrong to take someone's property under the guise of a rail line when the agenda is a park.
how is eminent domain stealing?


The city is giving Hyman $3 million, that property is property worth $100 million. That is stealing.

Posted on: 2016/4/14 14:02
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

psyop wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

radryan03 wrote:
That's right - change the subject...

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


No I am not changing the subject, how can this be a park if it is zone to be a rail spur? The city took a private citizen's property who is paying taxes for the purpose of a park that the ordinance say will be a rail spur. Let me repeat, take Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


If pretty much everyone called BS on what I said over and over and over again I hope I'd realize that there was something wrong with me and I'd get some help.


So stealing someone's property is no big deal. If for any reason Hyman wins his case in the courts and starts to develop the property I will still speak against any tax abatements he might seek, but it is wrong to take someone's property under the guise of a rail line when the agenda is a park.
how is eminent domain stealing?

Posted on: 2016/4/14 13:24
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

psyop wrote:
Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

radryan03 wrote:
That's right - change the subject...

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


No I am not changing the subject, how can this be a park if it is zone to be a rail spur? The city took a private citizen's property who is paying taxes for the purpose of a park that the ordinance say will be a rail spur. Let me repeat, take Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


If pretty much everyone called BS on what I said over and over and over again I hope I'd realize that there was something wrong with me and I'd get some help.


So stealing someone's property is no big deal. If for any reason Hyman wins his case in the courts and starts to develop the property I will still speak against any tax abatements he might seek, but it is wrong to take someone's property under the guise of a rail line when the agenda is a park.


Like I said, over and over.

Posted on: 2016/4/14 11:41
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Azul_the_Cat wrote:
I wish there was some other local park that was originally intended to be a rail line, but got turned into a park with the understanding that it could be switched back to rail use if needed. Can anyone think of anything? I feel like there has to be something.


I do not know of any local parks in this situation. But this process, railbanking, is explicitly authorized by federal law.

http://www.railstotrails.org/build-tr ... ding-toolbox/railbanking/

This is what makes the Embankment different than your typical piece of property. It was a railroad which is considered to be in the public trust. CONRAIL was created by the federal government to acquire the assets of the bankrupt railroads. CONRAIL Shared Assets, the successor to CONRAIL, was the entity that sold the property. But the railroads are not your typical property owner. They are treated differently because if the use of eminent domain used to acquire railroad rights of way in the first place, the extensive public subsidies and rights that railroad carriers had, the bailouts that railroad companies received from the federal government to keep vital operations running, and the public interest in maintaining these corridors.

Railroads must go through the formal abandonment process precisely for the reasons here. It doesn't matter that Schundler passed on it as a favor to a developer friend. In some cases mayors can screw taxpayers that way, but not in the case of former railroad rights of way.

Hyman and Conrail Shared Assets knew exactly what they were doing, and were hoping that no one would notice. But someone did (and I know the individual who was one of the first to raise this publicly).

The key points are.

1) There is no "false pretense" under which Jersey City is attempting to acquire the property. Acquiring it as a rail line is so that it comports the requirements of federal law concerning railbanking.

2) Abuse of eminent domain can be a legitimate concern. But what is happening here is not something that can happen to you unless you circumvent federal law to acquire your property.

Compliance with federal law is what Jersey City is doing and what Hyman and Conrail Shared Assets purposely did not do.

Posted on: 2016/4/14 1:52
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Yvonne wrote:
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radryan03 wrote:
That's right - change the subject...

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


No I am not changing the subject, how can this be a park if it is zone to be a rail spur? The city took a private citizen's property who is paying taxes for the purpose of a park that the ordinance say will be a rail spur. Let me repeat, take Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


If pretty much everyone called BS on what I said over and over and over again I hope I'd realize that there was something wrong with me and I'd get some help.


So stealing someone's property is no big deal. If for any reason Hyman wins his case in the courts and starts to develop the property I will still speak against any tax abatements he might seek, but it is wrong to take someone's property under the guise of a rail line when the agenda is a park.

Posted on: 2016/4/14 1:44
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

radryan03 wrote:
That's right - change the subject...

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


No I am not changing the subject, how can this be a park if it is zone to be a rail spur? The city took a private citizen's property who is paying taxes for the purpose of a park that the ordinance say will be a rail spur. Let me repeat, take Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


If pretty much everyone called BS on what I said over and over and over again I hope I'd realize that there was something wrong with me and I'd get some help.

Posted on: 2016/4/14 0:06
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

radryan03 wrote:
That's right - change the subject...

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


No I am not changing the subject, how can this be a park if it is zone to be a rail spur? The city took a private citizen's property who is paying taxes for the purpose of a park that the ordinance say will be a rail spur. Let me repeat, take Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


Of course you did. You always do. Like in this thread bringing up the parking issue (as usual for you).

The City isn't stealing Hyman's property. The ruling back in 2012 was "In September 2012 it was ruled that Conrail had not gone through the required process of "abandonment" and was not legally able to sell the property.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 23:30
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Ya did... can you please return to whining about bonds and taxes? You're at your best when you have no clue what you're talking about.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

radryan03 wrote:
That's right - change the subject...

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


No I am not changing the subject, how can this be a park if it is zone to be a rail spur? The city took a private citizen's property who is paying taxes for the purpose of a park that the ordinance say will be a rail spur. Let me repeat, take Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 22:41
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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I wish there was some other local park that was originally intended to be a rail line, but got turned into a park with the understanding that it could be switched back to rail use if needed. Can anyone think of anything? I feel like there has to be something.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 21:40
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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radryan03 wrote:
That's right - change the subject...

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Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.


No I am not changing the subject, how can this be a park if it is zone to be a rail spur? The city took a private citizen's property who is paying taxes for the purpose of a park that the ordinance say will be a rail spur. Let me repeat, take Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 21:22
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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That's right - change the subject...

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Yvonne wrote:
It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 20:16
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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It is amazing how people here have no problem with the city stealing someone's property. Hyman's property today, then your property tomorrow.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 20:11
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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What you're saying is hype... financial analysis by comparing the number of pages in newspaper is like signing your checkbook with crayons.

Did I say anything about cost not being important? Behind each one of those bonds is a story of growing a tax base (jobs, salaries, commerce, etc.)... that is the story behind the hype; the story that is important...

Are you struggling to fathom that the city you love is leaving you behind?

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Quote:

radryan03 wrote:
Love it - what are the real costs - go for it Yvonne - impress us all with your expansive and proven knowledge of municipal finance... please, I am begging...

And good - I hope there's no parking - put your car in a garage or just never come downtown. You are privileged to have a car... if you haven't accounted for the cost of owning a car in a urban environment, which frequently means paying for parking - that's your problem. OMG - you are soooo arrogant.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Once this is developed, there will be no parking. But let's get back to my second point, what is the real cost?


Yes, costs matter. I read the Jersey Journal today on pages 12 and 13, the city of Bayonne is advertising their tax liens. Bayonne has one-fourth the population of JC. Last December, the Jersey Journal published the tax liens for Jersey City. That was 32 pages. For Bayonne to be equal, there should have been eight pages of tax liens, not two. JC is paying too much in bond costs and taxes in general. Costs matter. I want to see the cost, not the hype.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 19:53
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Yvonne wrote:
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psyop wrote:
It really is just a waste of time and energy to argue with such an entitled close minded person.

Translation, it is a waste of time and energy to argue with the truth. I suggest you read the ordinance. It is suppose to be a rail spur not a park.


1. Having been a "teacher," you should know it is "supposed to be" not "suppose to be"

2. The courts were clear this was never private property. That's the whole point.


Posted on: 2016/4/13 19:30
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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psyop wrote:
It really is just a waste of time and energy to argue with such an entitled close minded person.

Translation, it is a waste of time and energy to argue with the truth. I suggest you read the ordinance. It is suppose to be a rail spur not a park.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 19:12
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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It really is just a waste of time and energy to argue with such an entitled close minded person.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 19:09
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Re: Embankment = High Line Public Space
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Yvonne I am not a fan of the way people treat you on here but I am sorry I really disagree with you. I live by the embankment and would like to see it become a park. Parks don't need parking lots and the cost to maintain and the run the park will be minimized by the high level of community involvement in it. How is developing this most likely how the 10th st embankment going to improve Jersey City? You know the property will receive abatements which will further hurt the other sections of Jersey City, the county and the state tax payers at the expense of extremely expensive homes for the well off. How could you not want this? Cities need open space. Countless NYC parks have zero parking. Parks are always worth the cost and public tran makes it accessible. I will fight for any park to happen in any section of Jersey City.


I was at the council meeting when this happened. According to the ordinance, this is to be a rail spur not a park. We took private property in deceit. I am not a friend of the property owner, but I know for a fact that former mayor Bret Schundler passed on this property. Schundler wanted to property to go to one of his friends to create housing. That did not happened so someone else got the property. Hyman has been paying taxes. I don't like the process, the city is lying about creating a rail spur in order to steal someone's property. This smells. There should not be park if it is truly a rail spur.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 19:07
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Re: Embankment = High Line Public Space
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Yvonne I am not a fan of the way people treat you on here but I am sorry I really disagree with you. I live by the embankment and would like to see it become a park. Parks don't need parking lots and the cost to maintain and the run the park will be minimized by the high level of community involvement in it. How is developing this most likely how the 10th st embankment going to improve Jersey City? You know the property will receive abatements which will further hurt the other sections of Jersey City, the county and the state tax payers at the expense of extremely expensive homes for the well off. How could you not want this? Cities need open space. Countless NYC parks have zero parking. Parks are always worth the cost and public tran makes it accessible. I will fight for any park to happen in any section of Jersey City.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 19:02
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Re: Embankment = High Line Public Space
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tamard wrote:

1. Park in the mall parking (LITERALLY at the base of the Embankment) for really a nominal fee .. 3 hours for $3.50.
2. Take the PATH & walk. (eek! Exercise!!)
3. Take the Lightrail & take a short walk (again exercise!)
4. Don't go

Please, I beg you to show me an example of an urban historic city with unlimited free parking.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
How do the people from Greenville or the Heights get to use that public space when there is no parking? It is basically for people are are close by.




Just adding more options here
1. Park in the mall parking (LITERALLY at the base of the Embankment) for really a nominal fee .. 3 hours for $3.50.
2. Take the PATH & walk. (eek! Exercise!!)
3. Take the Lightrail & take a short walk (again exercise!)
4. Don't go
5. Take the bus
6. Walk there
7. Take a cab
8. Ride a bicycle there
9. Burrow underground then come up from underneath
10. Invent teleportation technology, then teleport there
11. Parachute in from 10,000 ft
12. Become Ant Man, then get fired on the tip of Hawkeye arrow to the park
13. Ride a horse there



You forgot no. 14. Ignore the cost, we don't care about the impact on people's ability to afford their homes. We embankment people are special.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 18:53
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Re: Embankment = High Line Public Space
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tamard wrote:

1. Park in the mall parking (LITERALLY at the base of the Embankment) for really a nominal fee .. 3 hours for $3.50.
2. Take the PATH & walk. (eek! Exercise!!)
3. Take the Lightrail & take a short walk (again exercise!)
4. Don't go

Please, I beg you to show me an example of an urban historic city with unlimited free parking.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
How do the people from Greenville or the Heights get to use that public space when there is no parking? It is basically for people are are close by.




Just adding more options here
1. Park in the mall parking (LITERALLY at the base of the Embankment) for really a nominal fee .. 3 hours for $3.50.
2. Take the PATH & walk. (eek! Exercise!!)
3. Take the Lightrail & take a short walk (again exercise!)
4. Don't go
5. Take the bus
6. Walk there
7. Take a cab
8. Ride a bicycle there
9. Burrow underground then come up from underneath
10. Invent teleportation technology, then teleport there
11. Parachute in from 10,000 ft
12. Become Ant Man, then get fired on the tip of Hawkeye arrow to the park
13. Ride a horse there


Posted on: 2016/4/13 18:44
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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radryan03 wrote:
Love it - what are the real costs - go for it Yvonne - impress us all with your expansive and proven knowledge of municipal finance... please, I am begging...

And good - I hope there's no parking - put your car in a garage or just never come downtown. You are privileged to have a car... if you haven't accounted for the cost of owning a car in a urban environment, which frequently means paying for parking - that's your problem. OMG - you are soooo arrogant.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Once this is developed, there will be no parking. But let's get back to my second point, what is the real cost?


Yes, costs matter. I read the Jersey Journal today on pages 12 and 13, the city of Bayonne is advertising their tax liens. Bayonne has one-fourth the population of JC. Last December, the Jersey Journal published the tax liens for Jersey City. That was 32 pages. For Bayonne to be equal, there should have been eight pages of tax liens, not two. JC is paying too much in bond costs and taxes in general. Costs matter. I want to see the cost, not the hype.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 18:34
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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Love it - what are the real costs - go for it Yvonne - impress us all with your expansive and proven knowledge of municipal finance... please, I am begging...

And good - I hope there's no parking - put your car in a garage or just never come downtown. You are privileged to have a car... if you haven't accounted for the cost of owning a car in a urban environment, which frequently means paying for parking - that's your problem. OMG - you are soooo arrogant.

Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
Once this is developed, there will be no parking. But let's get back to my second point, what is the real cost?

Posted on: 2016/4/13 17:46
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Yvonne wrote:
Once this is developed, there will be no parking. But let's get back to my second point, what is the real cost?


I seriously don't get what will ever make you happy. In other threads, you bemoan the lack of green space that's coming with all the new development. Right here you have the potential for one of the largest expansions of green space in quite a while and you bitch and moan about parking and the costs? People downtown pay for parks in other parts of the city that they're unlikely to use and vice-versa.

Please do yourself and everybody in this city a favor and move to the suburbs already.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 17:34
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Re: Embankment- Update Thread
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I enjoy Riverview Park, but there's no parking there.....
It's called the Light Rail.

Posted on: 2016/4/13 17:33
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Yvonne wrote:
Once this is developed, there will be no parking. But let's get back to my second point, what is the real cost?

So it will be massively successful pulling in enough people to fill up the mall lot and fill up all available street parking. That seems like very, very strong endorsement of the idea.




Posted on: 2016/4/13 17:29
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Once this is developed, there will be no parking. But let's get back to my second point, what is the real cost?

Posted on: 2016/4/13 17:08
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Re: Embankment = High Line Public Space
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Yvonne wrote:
How do the people from Greenville or the Heights get to use that public space when there is no parking? It is basically for people are are close by.


Ignoring for a moment how ridiculous of a reason this is for opposing this project- as someone who lives on 6th street you would be surprised how relatively easy it is to find parking along the embankment (as these blocks have half as many residences as a normal block would).


Seriously, I live in the area and it is simple to get parking, plus there's a huge, mostly empty lot right there at the mall and it is maybe a quarter mile from the light rail, plus there's a bus route that stops at HP, plus there are jitneys that get you right nearby.




Posted on: 2016/4/13 17:04
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Re: Embankment = High Line Public Space
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Not everyone is close to the PATH, it runs between Journal Square and downtown not the rest of the city. But besides that what is the cost? I know what things cost due to public agreements that must be disclosed. But this is different. These costs are hidden, why?

Posted on: 2016/4/13 16:37
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