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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Posted on: 2015/12/2 13:39
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Yvonne wrote:
Kerik, meanwhile, was on CNN later in the morning, where he told the "Newsroom with Carol Costello" program that there were some reports of people celebrating, as Giuliani said, in Brooklyn and Queens, and agreed there were reports from Paterson, N.J. and Jersey City as well.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rudy ... 911/2015/12/01/id/704079/


Only you would be gullible enough to cite Kerik - a convicted felon who served time in prison for tax fraud and making false statements.

Posted on: 2015/12/2 3:37
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Ah, if only things were so simple. Do you know what would happen if we were to completely disengage militarily from the Middle East? The surrounding Muslim countries would do what they've been itching to do for decades: they would wipe Israel off the map.


I'm curious, why do we care so much about Israel? Is it because of Biblical prophecy? Or the powerful lobbies, or a combination of both?

Or, more specifically, why do you care?

Posted on: 2015/12/2 3:07
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

Who are these superpowers you speak of? And who are these other countries?



America, Russia, and China. You defined military action as meaning: "wars, coups, invasions, financial/weapon support." The superpowers I listed have undertaken these actions in many countries across the globe. I will not give you a global history lesson here. But briefly, regarding Russia look no further than Ukraine or Chechnya, or any of the nearby countries it asserted its influence on up until very recently. And China has a long history of warring with its neighbors. On a related note, if it wasn't for our presence, China would instantly attack and conquer Taiwan. Also, China is essentially colonizing Africa as we speak.

It's somewhat amazing I need to spell this out, but so be it.

Quote:
Your examples are decades old. Time does heal wounds. Which is my exact point, if we stop involving our military and providing military support in the Middle East, our blow back risk decreases.


This point is naive, and you didn't say our blow back risk "decreases" by ending military action. You said our military action was the entire problem, implying that if we stop, so will these actions.

ISIS wants to create a state under a Caliph in Muslim-majority lands. They want to continue to expand, just as the Nazis did. There is nothing to suggest they would pack their things up and go home even if we were to stop doing what every superpower does.

Quote:
They didn't sit around plotting against America out of nowhere and they're already busy in a Sunni vs Shia / Regime vs Rebel conflicts.


Since you seem to be unaware of what's going on, much of this stems from an ideology called Wahabism, which far precedes our military actions you so strongly oppose. Today, our foreign policy "ally" Saudi Arabia is one of the biggest exporters of this ideology.

Its roots are deeply religious, and those who follow this ideology are opposed to all of Western society because they contend it is incompatible with Islam. Our foreign policy or lack thereof would not make much of a difference to such people. It is our mere existence which is offensive to them.

Quote:
Exactly, so let the Middle East deal with its own problems. No need to create new ones and put Americans at risk.


Ah, if only things were so simple. Do you know what would happen if we were to completely disengage militarily from the Middle East? The surrounding Muslim countries would do what they've been itching to do for decades: they would wipe Israel off the map.

Posted on: 2015/12/2 2:36
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Kerik, meanwhile, was on CNN later in the morning, where he told the "Newsroom with Carol Costello" program that there were some reports of people celebrating, as Giuliani said, in Brooklyn and Queens, and agreed there were reports from Paterson, N.J. and Jersey City as well.

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rudy ... 911/2015/12/01/id/704079/

Posted on: 2015/12/2 2:29
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCorNYC wrote:
Hate him or like him ... Trumps getting all the archives backing his claim. LOL. He may have exaggerated the numbers for Jersey City alone but he's putting it out there what the media and political correctness try to deny.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671716793195634688



Ok, assuming it's true, so what? You can find a small minority of people who practically support anything. And?


The first step in conquering a problem is acknowledging it. Currently, our leaders can't even do that, so this is progress.

And as Trump says, a small minority of a group consisting of over 1 billion people = a large number of violent crazies.

In terms of practical steps, shutting down all radical mosques and arresting the radical preachers is a great start. And yes, our ally Saudi Arabia is a large contributor to this.


Yes, let's acknowledge the problem. The problem is that we involve our military in other Middle Eastern countries (wars, coups, invasions, financial/weapon support).

There's a reason that terrorists attack us but not Switzerland.


Every superpower does the things you mention, and they do it to every country, not just those in the Middle East.


Who are these superpowers you speak of? And who are these other countries?

Quote:

And we propped up horrendous murderous South American dictators for decades yet we are not being attacked by South Americans. We had a war with Vietnam many consider to be unjust, yet we are not being attacked by the Vietnemese.


Your examples are decades old. Time does heal wounds. Which is my exact point, if we stop involving our military and providing military support in the Middle East, our blow back risk decreases.

Al Qaeda and ISIS have told us as much - they do this because we involve ourselves in places where we didn't belong. If Middle Easterners bombed us and tried to overthrow our government, is it implausible that some Americans would try to hit them back? If we leave them alone, they have enough to keep them busy over there anyway. They didn't sit around plotting against America out of nowhere and they're already busy in a Sunni vs Shia / Regime vs Rebel conflicts.

Quote:

And the precursor to the modern Middle East, the Muslim Ottoman Empire, did all of the "problems" you listed x100.

So no, your comment is naive at best and ultimately incorrect. Our military involvement abroad is not the real problem.


Exactly, so let the Middle East deal with its own problems. No need to create new ones and put Americans at risk.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 23:51
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Has JCman8 replaced Monroe as the resident racist? Did I miss something, was there an election, a coup, or did he just one up him and Monroe took his ball and went home.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 23:28
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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I'm not sure why everyone is continuing to argue the validity of any of these claims. Neither group seems to intend to persuade the other.

The discussion should be focused on the policies to be derived from this rhetoric. They seem to be absent. The majority of what Trump has said revolves around his "acknowledgement of a problem" that no one else is acknowledging. There is no mention of what specifically this problem is, other than "radical Islamic terrorism," or what he proposes as any kind of solution.

He seems to think that he can get through to the general with a combination of incendiary, racially charged remarks and ad hominem, baseless attacks on other candidates or the president.

The man is the furthest thing from a statesman. He has shown zero acumen for foreign policy and responded, in the interview most recently posted, to a question about his stance on climate change with saying he wants clean air and clean water.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 22:11
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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So that means the former mayor of New York and the former police commissioner are liars too? I am waiting for the CNN interview so I can place it online. Giuliana said there were pockets of people celebrating all over NYC, not thousands. I never said thousands, I mentioned Westside Avenue. Another friend told me there was celebrations in Journal Square near Sip.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 21:59
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Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCorNYC wrote:
Hate him or like him ... Trumps getting all the archives backing his claim. LOL. He may have exaggerated the numbers for Jersey City alone but he's putting it out there what the media and political correctness try to deny.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671716793195634688



Ok, assuming it's true, so what? You can find a small minority of people who practically support anything. And?


The first step in conquering a problem is acknowledging it. Currently, our leaders can't even do that, so this is progress.

And as Trump says, a small minority of a group consisting of over 1 billion people = a large number of violent crazies.

In terms of practical steps, shutting down all radical mosques and arresting the radical preachers is a great start. And yes, our ally Saudi Arabia is a large contributor to this.


Yes, let's acknowledge the problem. The problem is that we involve our military in other Middle Eastern countries (wars, coups, invasions, financial/weapon support).

There's a reason that terrorists attack us but not Switzerland.


Every superpower does the things you mention, and they do it to every country, not just those in the Middle East.

And we propped up horrendous murderous South American dictators for decades yet we are not being attacked by South Americans. We had a war with Vietnam many consider to be unjust, yet we are not being attacked by the Vietnemese.

And the precursor to the modern Middle East, the Muslim Ottoman Empire, did all of the "problems" you listed x100.

So no, your comment is naive at best and ultimately incorrect. Our military involvement abroad is not the real problem.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 21:25
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JCorNYC wrote:
Looks like the real reason Problem is being an ally to Israel. bottomline.

I fixed that for you.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 21:15
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Looks like the real reason is being an ally to Israel. bottomline.

Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCorNYC wrote:
Hate him or like him ... Trumps getting all the archives backing his claim. LOL. He may have exaggerated the numbers for Jersey City alone but he's putting it out there what the media and political correctness try to deny.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671716793195634688



Ok, assuming it's true, so what? You can find a small minority of people who practically support anything. And?


The first step in conquering a problem is acknowledging it. Currently, our leaders can't even do that, so this is progress.

And as Trump says, a small minority of a group consisting of over 1 billion people = a large number of violent crazies.

In terms of practical steps, shutting down all radical mosques and arresting the radical preachers is a great start. And yes, our ally Saudi Arabia is a large contributor to this.


Yes, let's acknowledge the problem. The problem is that we involve our military in other Middle Eastern countries (wars, coups, invasions, financial/weapon support).

There's a reason that terrorists attack us but not Switzerland.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 21:13
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCorNYC wrote:
Hate him or like him ... Trumps getting all the archives backing his claim. LOL. He may have exaggerated the numbers for Jersey City alone but he's putting it out there what the media and political correctness try to deny.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671716793195634688



Ok, assuming it's true, so what? You can find a small minority of people who practically support anything. And?


The first step in conquering a problem is acknowledging it. Currently, our leaders can't even do that, so this is progress.

And as Trump says, a small minority of a group consisting of over 1 billion people = a large number of violent crazies.

In terms of practical steps, shutting down all radical mosques and arresting the radical preachers is a great start. And yes, our ally Saudi Arabia is a large contributor to this.


Yes, let's acknowledge the problem. The problem is that we involve our military in other Middle Eastern countries (wars, coups, invasions, financial/weapon support).

There's a reason that terrorists attack us but not Switzerland.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 21:00
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JCMan8 wrote:
But just to humor you, if we counted this nutjob with no clear motive as someone radicalized by these mysterious Christian churches which "encourage violence," and congregants of these fantasy churches committed terrible atrocities at a rate which was grossly disproportionate to their percentage of the total population, then yes, we would need the measures I listed.


This is why even some Republican leaders are calling Trump the "F Word" -- Fascist. Trump spouts an outrageous and easily debunkable lie about "thousands and thousands" and soon his supporters start talking about tearing up the Constitution and calling for shutting down houses of worship and arresting religious leaders.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 20:42
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RickSp wrote:
Quote:

JCMan8 wrote:

In terms of practical steps, shutting down all radical mosques and arresting the radical preachers is a great start. And yes, our ally Saudi Arabia is a large contributor to this.


So after the terror attack on Planned Parenthood, do you think that we should also shut down Christian churches which use hate speech and encourage violence? Arrest all the radical preachers? Is that what you want? Are these "practical steps" which you would support?


If any group commits atrocities at a grossly disproportionate rate, they have proven to be a menace to society where practical steps like those I listed are needed.

Last I heard, the Planned Parenthood guy was a mentally ill nutjob whose motive is unclear. His neighbors said they could never understand anything he was saying. He also lived in a cabin in the woods sonewhere. Contrast that to the Paris attackers, who had a clear religious motive, and most assuredly were not mentally ill. In fact, the leader blended right in and was able to escape.

But just to humor you, if we counted this nutjob with no clear motive as someone radicalized by these mysterious Christian churches which "encourage violence," (despite no evidence he attended such a church, or was even religious), and congregants of these fantasy churches committed terrible atrocities at a rate which was grossly disproportionate to their percentage of the total population, then yes, we would need the measures I listed.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 20:26
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JCMan8 wrote:

In terms of practical steps, shutting down all radical mosques and arresting the radical preachers is a great start. And yes, our ally Saudi Arabia is a large contributor to this.


So after the terror attack on Planned Parenthood, do you think that we should also shut down Christian churches which use hate speech and encourage violence? Arrest all the radical preachers? Is that what you want? Are these "practical steps" which you would support?

Posted on: 2015/12/1 20:17
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCorNYC wrote:
Hate him or like him ... Trumps getting all the archives backing his claim. LOL. He may have exaggerated the numbers for Jersey City alone but he's putting it out there what the media and political correctness try to deny.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671716793195634688



Ok, assuming it's true, so what? You can find a small minority of people who practically support anything. And?


The first step in conquering a problem is acknowledging it. Currently, our leaders can't even do that, so this is progress.

And as Trump says, a small minority of a group consisting of over 1 billion people = a large number of violent crazies.

In terms of practical steps, shutting down all radical mosques and arresting the radical preachers is a great start. And yes, our ally Saudi Arabia is a large contributor to this.


So you believe in prior restraint and hate speech laws? True blue American there.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 20:10
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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So Yvonne, you want to be in good company with two proven liars, and insistingly so?

Good, a person cannot be judged by family, but she can be judged by who they support and promote.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 20:08
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Yvonne wrote:
So Curtis Sliwa is commenting on this on 9/13/01, but according to some people here I am a liar. For the record, Curtis Sliwa had an uncle living in Paulus Hook, I would see him occasionally on the PATH going to JC in the 1970s and 1980s.

Let's all remember that this is the same Curtis Sliwa that lied about being abducted on multiple occasions in some crazy attempt at making himself seem more important than he is. He also lied about many of the Guardian Angels activities that supposedly took place.

So, yeah, I'm sure he knows first hand and is completely honest about this topic since he has no possible political gain to be made...

You and Sliwa, two proven liars.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 19:49
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So Curtis Sliwa is commenting on this on 9/13/01, but according to some people here I am a liar. For the record, Curtis Sliwa had an uncle living in Paulus Hook, I would see him occasionally on the PATH going to JC in the 1970s and 1980s.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 19:41
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Quote:

JCorNYC wrote:
Hate him or like him ... Trumps getting all the archives backing his claim. LOL. He may have exaggerated the numbers for Jersey City alone but he's putting it out there what the media and political correctness try to deny.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671716793195634688



Ok, assuming it's true, so what? You can find a small minority of people who practically support anything. And?


The first step in conquering a problem is acknowledging it. Currently, our leaders can't even do that, so this is progress.

And as Trump says, a small minority of a group consisting of over 1 billion people = a large number of violent crazies.

In terms of practical steps, shutting down all radical mosques and arresting the radical preachers is a great start. And yes, our ally Saudi Arabia is a large contributor to this.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 19:19
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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It muddies the waters around Trump's outright fabrication to give him wiggle room. It's terrible people providing cover for a more terrible person.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 18:37
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JCorNYC wrote:
Hate him or like him ... Trumps getting all the archives backing his claim. LOL. He may have exaggerated the numbers for Jersey City alone but he's putting it out there what the media and political correctness try to deny.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671716793195634688



Ok, assuming it's true, so what? You can find a small minority of people who practically support anything. And?

Posted on: 2015/12/1 18:26
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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He made them up for Jersey City alone.

And I can find small pockets of assholes that celebrate that PP clinic shooting the other day.

But, it's OK. He's leading the republicans into losing the White House, and possibly even the Senate now..

So, keep giving the windbag airtime to supply his own rope to hang himself with.

And a dumb editorial by the NYP rag, that also lies about the widespread celebrations here does not even come close to backing him up. It may light up the eyes of zombie supporters, it's still recirculating old urban legends and purposeful blood libel.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 18:20
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Donald J. Trump ?@realDonaldTrump 3h3 hours ago
Look at the editorial I was just sent from the NY Post on 9/14/01 - 3 days after collapse of WTC. Any apologies?


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671710514007904256

Posted on: 2015/12/1 18:20
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Hate him or like him ... Trumps getting all the archives backing his claim. LOL. He may have exaggerated the numbers for Jersey City alone but he's putting it out there what the media and political correctness try to deny.


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/671716793195634688


Posted on: 2015/12/1 18:13
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papadage wrote:
It's hilarious that Trump walks back his lie a whole lot, and then gets rabid support for not lying quite as much, and in a friendly forum where they did not hold is feet to the fire for his actual original words.

And Yvonne. Anything to be a counter factual crank.


Did you watch the video? It was anything but a "friendly forum." In case the first GOP debate didn't clue you in, establishment Republicans HATE Trump. This includes Megyn Kelly and Scarborough.

As to the support he's receiving in spite of walking back his original comments, it's pretty obvious. He's the only leader to actually acknowledge the problem we face. Of course a guy who sees the big picture gets support. Watch him speak in that video instead of reading an "article" written by some irate journalist out to paint him in the worst possible light.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 17:30
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It's hilarious that Trump walks back his lie a whole lot, and then gets rabid support for not lying quite as much, and in a friendly forum where they did not hold is feet to the fire for his actual original words.

And Yvonne. Anything to be a counter factual crank.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 16:20
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psyop wrote:

For the 400th time, there were reports of all kinds of crazy stuff that morning and throughout the day, most of which turned out to not be true.

"A guy I saw on TV heard there was a phone call that someone made said it". Way to prove your point.


As I was walking down Grand Street toward the water on 9/11, I was told by a construction worker that there was a squadron of Syrian jets approaching from the Atlantic. He knew it to be true because someone told him. That wasn't the only false rumor I heard on 9/11, although that may have been the craziest.

The problem is that many believe the rumors that confirm their particualr biases. Trump lies, claiming that the saw it all himself, "thousands and thousands" of people celebrating, so that he can stir up fear and hatred. And the gullible and the hateful believe every word.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 16:01
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Re: Trump: 'Thousands' in Jersey City cheered on 9/11
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Yvonne wrote:
I put on CNN as I normally do each morning, Carol Costello is interviewing former Mayor Giuliano who was talking about pockets of people celebrating on 9/11. He mention a Muslim family that was celebrating and youths from the housing projects beat the family up over the celebration. He also mentioned other sections in NYC. Then former Bernie Kerik, NYC Police Commissioner said he was working with the FBI on that day, Kerik said they got phone call that there was celebrations in Jersey City. I am placing this on line at around 10:40 am. Carol Costello had this interview around 10:15 am. Hopefully, this interview will be on youtube with Carol Costello, former Mayor Giuliano, and Bernie Kerik.


For the 400th time, there were reports of all kinds of crazy stuff that morning and throughout the day, most of which turned out to not be true.

"A guy I saw on TV heard there was a phone call that someone made said it". Way to prove your point.

Posted on: 2015/12/1 15:47
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