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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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JCMan8 wrote:
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trambone wrote:
I am not opposed to sit down restaurants getting a set salary, but i'm sure some restaurateur would complain that their employee would abuse it then by calling out on busy days and abuse the sick day system. Right now as it stands the system servers are compensated if they do not at least make minimum wage. Not sure if that is how it should work as if they had at least 3 tables depending on the establishment they could make double or triple the min.

I also NEVER leave a tip when I get takeout. Tips are for service when dining out.



Generally I have absolutely no problem not leaving a tip for takeout, or for other things like the beer store that someone mentioned earlier. In fact, if someone yelled at me for not tipping in a takeout setting (like others have mentioned), I'd laugh at them.

However, if it is a takeout place I frequent, I do give them a buck or two from time to time. They remember you and it seems like a nice thing to do. Otherwise I agree it's obnoxious to even offer the option.


I will say this. I still tip my delivery driver even when a delivery fee is charged.

Posted on: 2015/10/18 6:02
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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trambone wrote:
I am not opposed to sit down restaurants getting a set salary, but i'm sure some restaurateur would complain that their employee would abuse it then by calling out on busy days and abuse the sick day system. Right now as it stands the system servers are compensated if they do not at least make minimum wage. Not sure if that is how it should work as if they had at least 3 tables depending on the establishment they could make double or triple the min.

I also NEVER leave a tip when I get takeout. Tips are for service when dining out.


Generally I have absolutely no problem not leaving a tip for takeout, or for other things like the beer store that someone mentioned earlier. In fact, if someone yelled at me for not tipping in a takeout setting (like others have mentioned), I'd laugh at them.

However, if it is a takeout place I frequent, I do give them a buck or two from time to time. They remember you and it seems like a nice thing to do. Otherwise I agree it's obnoxious to even offer the option.

Posted on: 2015/10/17 19:50
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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I am not opposed to sit down restaurants getting a set salary, but i'm sure some restaurateur would complain that their employee would abuse it then by calling out on busy days and abuse the sick day system. Right now as it stands the system servers are compensated if they do not at least make minimum wage. Not sure if that is how it should work as if they had at least 3 tables depending on the establishment they could make double or triple the min.

I also NEVER leave a tip when I get takeout. Tips are for service when dining out.

Posted on: 2015/10/17 13:33
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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JCMan8 wrote:

I'm sure some may find it offensive, but IMO there is a world of difference between Chinese and Japanese culture. It is not surprising to hear you had poor service in a Chinese place but would be in a Japanese one.


My wife's job requires her to work with the Chinese (mainland) and Japanese on a regular basis. You pretty much described them. The spitting thing grossed her out whilst she was in China a few years back. Habits like that is one of the reasons SARS spread to epidemic levels.

The Taiwanese are bit different though. The entire island was culturally Japanese until the Kuomintang invaded.

Posted on: 2015/10/17 13:29
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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FYI

State guidelines on tips are often laid out in tax laws about what is subject to sales tax and what isn?t; mandatory charges often are subject to taxes while voluntary gratuity typically is not?which means making it mandatory is usually more trouble for the establishment. If it?s called a ?service charge? rather than a ?tip,? the money could go to the establishment, or it could go to the server and be taxed as normal wages. In any case, a ?service charge? is typically less negotiable and is particularly sticky when negotiated beforehand.

In some states, such caveats have proved to mean nothing at all. Take New York, where Humberto A. Taveras ate at Soprano?s Italian and American Grill in 2004. After being less than impressed by a $77.43 meal for nine, he refused to pay the required $13 (18%) tip. The restaurant owners called the police, who then arrested Taveras and charged him with theft. But the district attorney had those charged dropped the following week, saying that any gratuity is by its nature discretionary.

Posted on: 2015/10/17 12:34
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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I got a taco at some takeaway joint in the East Village last year and the guy yelled "fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck youuuuuuuu!!!!!!" as I walked away down the block for not tipping him.

I should mention that service was SLOW, he was making weird vomit burp noises the entire time and I was nothing but friendly towards him.

Come on?

Posted on: 2015/10/17 7:02
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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brewster wrote:
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ThirdStreet wrote:
Friend and left a small tip (maybe 200 yen) a small restaurant in Tokyo this past spring, only to waitress coming running after as to tell us we had left money on the table.


I had terrible service at a chinatown rice shop and left no tip. The server came running after me to tell me I forgot to tip. YMMV. I'm more understanding of poor service in a busy place than poor service in a slow place, which I have often witnessed, often while eating lunch late.

I have to also throw into the discussion that a lot of restaurants pool the tips. The whole thing is a pretty bad mess, there's no doubt.


I'm sure some may find it offensive, but IMO there is a world of difference between Chinese and Japanese culture. It is not surprising to hear you had poor service in a Chinese place but would be in a Japanese one.

Just as an example, Tokyo is an extremely clean city. Whereas Chinese people have a cultural habit of spitting all over the sidewalk (and in some areas, shitting on the street, you can Youtube this).

So comparing the two is like apples to oranges.

Posted on: 2015/10/17 3:09
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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ThirdStreet wrote:
Friend and left a small tip (maybe 200 yen) a small restaurant in Tokyo this past spring, only to waitress coming running after as to tell us we had left money on the table.


I had terrible service at a chinatown rice shop and left no tip. The server came running after me to tell me I forgot to tip. YMMV. I'm more understanding of poor service in a busy place than poor service in a slow place, which I have often witnessed, often while eating lunch late.

I have to also throw into the discussion that a lot of restaurants pool the tips. The whole thing is a pretty bad mess, there's no doubt.

Posted on: 2015/10/17 0:57
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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Friend and left a small tip (maybe 200 yen) a small restaurant in Tokyo this past spring, only to waitress coming running after as to tell us we had left money on the table.

Japan is probably not a good comparison since incredible service very much a part of the Japanese culture. Don't think it has much to do with whether they are treated better or they are proud of their job.
Edit : sorry if you already knew that because you're Japanese.
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Atsushi wrote:
In Japan, there is no tip at restaurant. Most restaurant workers are treated better than they are here, and most do their best not because they want to get tip but because they are proud of their job.

So on one hand, I'm for eliminating tip. But on the other hand, this is America. Not everyone tries to do a good job. So tipping little or none is my only way to express my dissatisfaction. I would like not having to calculate tip every time, but I'm not so sure if I should give that up.

But also, tipping is only for wait staff. What about cooks and management, etc.? How can we express my feeling about the services that I received, except for not ever going back? Actually, if I feel so strongly, I should be able to give them a comment when I leave, which I have done in the past.

So with all things considered, I am for eliminating tips all together.

Posted on: 2015/10/16 21:05
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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hamhock wrote:
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JCCoffee wrote:
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hamhock wrote:

Are you paid a salary at your current job?


Many jobs include a salary PLUS a "performance based" bonus. I would question how well incentives are aligned if you're at a job where this is not the case (within the context of American culture - other countries may be different, i.e., Japan).


That's a good point, and I see no reason why a restaurant server couldn't be offered something similar. For instance, many sales jobs offer base salary + commission. Any restaurant with a POS and CC terminal can track each server's nightly sales (it's how a server calculates what they tip out to the food runners, bus-ers and bar staff). If a server still has a "the more I sell, the more I can make" scenario, that should off-set the worries of the "but how can I stiff them for bad service?" crowd.


That just incentivizes them to sell more stuff, as opposed to provide good service, which is good for the business (at least in the short term), but bad for the customers.

Think of it applied to wine - say you have two good options, a cheap $50 bottle and an expensive $100 bottle. In the tipped scenario, the server has to balance their desire to run up the check with their worry that the customer will feel cheated by a suggestion of the higher-priced bottle; with only sales incentives, why not just suggest the most expensive everything regardless of whether it's the best?

Moreover, while running up the check results in the restaurant making more money now, it could impact the overall value perception and prevent customers from returning later. Good service can result in both higher bills now, and more return customers later - it directly impacts the value proposition.

Posted on: 2015/10/16 20:52
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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JCCoffee wrote:
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hamhock wrote:

Are you paid a salary at your current job?


Many jobs include a salary PLUS a "performance based" bonus. I would question how well incentives are aligned if you're at a job where this is not the case (within the context of American culture - other countries may be different, i.e., Japan).


That's a good point, and I see no reason why a restaurant server couldn't be offered something similar. For instance, many sales jobs offer base salary + commission. Any restaurant with a POS and CC terminal can track each server's nightly sales (it's how a server calculates what they tip out to the food runners, bus-ers and bar staff). If a server still has a "the more I sell, the more I can make" scenario, that should off-set the worries of the "but how can I stiff them for bad service?" crowd.

Posted on: 2015/10/16 19:22
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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I don't have super strong feelings about this at sit-down restaurants (although it would be nice to not have to think about/calculate tips), but it's takeout joints and other regular stores that drive me nuts with having a tip line on the credit card slip. Like, I feel like a dick if I put $0.00, but I don't feel that you deserve a tip for just handing me something. LOL. Like a liquor store for example. Thirsty Quaker is a culprit. I buy a couple six packs, then I when I sign the credit card slip there is a line for tip. Come on. It's awkward. Enough is enough with forced tipping.

Posted on: 2015/10/16 18:28
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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hamhock wrote:

Are you paid a salary at your current job?


Many jobs include a salary PLUS a "performance based" bonus. I would question how well incentives are aligned if you're at a job where this is not the case (within the context of American culture - other countries may be different, i.e., Japan).

Posted on: 2015/10/16 18:04
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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yes, finally! just include the tip as well as the tax in the price. if service is that bad that you don't want to leave a tip, then you should speak to the manager. i have never not left a tip even when service is bad....i assume it might be due to the resto being unusually busy, short wait or kitchen staff

Posted on: 2015/10/16 17:44
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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Freakonomics Radio did an interesting rundown on tipping and the discussion of whether it should be done away with.

Posted on: 2015/10/16 17:07
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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In Japan, there is no tip at restaurant. Most restaurant workers are treated better than they are here, and most do their best not because they want to get tip but because they are proud of their job.

So on one hand, I'm for eliminating tip. But on the other hand, this is America. Not everyone tries to do a good job. So tipping little or none is my only way to express my dissatisfaction. I would like not having to calculate tip every time, but I'm not so sure if I should give that up.

But also, tipping is only for wait staff. What about cooks and management, etc.? How can we express my feeling about the services that I received, except for not ever going back? Actually, if I feel so strongly, I should be able to give them a comment when I leave, which I have done in the past.

So with all things considered, I am for eliminating tips all together.

Posted on: 2015/10/16 16:58
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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It should be up to the restaurant.

Posted on: 2015/10/16 16:40
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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nafco wrote:
Ive only in my life not tipped maybe once or twice, but it was because the service was beyond awful. Im all for the wait staff to get the money they deserve, but it does kind of eliminate the need for the staff to try when they know they have that guaranteed tip coming their way. Just saying.


Are you paid a salary at your current job?

Posted on: 2015/10/16 16:33
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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Ive only in my life not tipped maybe once or twice, but it was because the service was beyond awful. Im all for the wait staff to get the money they deserve, but it does kind of eliminate the need for the staff to try when they know they have that guaranteed tip coming their way. Just saying.

Posted on: 2015/10/16 16:32
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Re: Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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the better question is, should all restaurant workers be paid a salary with benefits and paid time off, just like in Europe?

Yes

Posted on: 2015/10/16 16:29
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Should tipping be eliminated at eateries?
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Danny Meyer Restaurants to Eliminate Tipping

By PETE WELLSOCT. 14, 2015
n a sweeping change to how most of its 1,800 employees are paid, the Union Square Hospitality Group will eliminate tipping at Gramercy Tavern, Union Square Cafe and its 11 other restaurants by the end of next year, the company?s chief executive, Danny Meyer, said on Wednesday.

The move will affect New York City businesses that serve 40,000 to 50,000 meals a week and range from simple museum cafes to some of the most popular and acclaimed restaurants in the country. The first will be the Modern, inside the Museum of Modern Art, starting next month. The others will gradually follow.

A small number of restaurants around the country have reduced or eliminated tipping in the last several years. Some, like Atelier Crenn in San Francisco, put a surcharge on the bill, allowing the restaurants to set the pay for all their employees. Others, including Bruno Pizza, a new restaurant in the East Village, factor the cost of an hourly wage for servers into their menu prices.

More

Posted on: 2015/10/16 16:17
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