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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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DanL wrote:
wondering if this is related -

Maybe, but maybe not.

Before it was Prato (a recent development), it was a bodega. I have no idea how it is currently zoned.

Further, if reports are correct (and they might not be), it sounds like the developer struck a deal with the neighbor that the backyard was not to be used for a business. That has nothing to do with zoning laws, it's an issue between those two parties.


Posted on: 2015/7/14 15:02
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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JCMan8 wrote:
Quote:

EasyGibson wrote:
I don't think any of us here know exactly what their plans looked like when they filed or if there was even a need for a variance for the indoor seats.

It's just upsetting that such a simple thing can't be easily resolved.

Like I said, I can understand an issue with outdoor seating, especially if it wasn't in the plans, but the indoor stuff? Stop it. We should be able to deal with this.


Unfortunately, some people believe the Rules are the Rules, and absolutely refuse to apply common sense. What problems could indoor seating cause for any neighbor? Seems like a technical violation.

But because even a technicality violates the sacred Rules, don't expect much sympathy.


There are at least 3 other business that have adhered to the rules in the vicinity of this bakery. Furthermore the community has decided this is what they want for their neighborhood. The only sympathy I have for Prato is that the place makes good food, and I'll be sorry to see them go. But man how can you open a business under such a ominous cloud?

I would like it to be explained to me how they ever opened in the first place.

Posted on: 2015/7/14 14:58
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Common sense is to use the same process every other legitimate business does. Maybe they should skirt health and sanitary laws too?

Posted on: 2015/7/14 14:54
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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EasyGibson wrote:
I don't think any of us here know exactly what their plans looked like when they filed or if there was even a need for a variance for the indoor seats.

It's just upsetting that such a simple thing can't be easily resolved.

Like I said, I can understand an issue with outdoor seating, especially if it wasn't in the plans, but the indoor stuff? Stop it. We should be able to deal with this.


Unfortunately, some people believe the Rules are the Rules, and absolutely refuse to apply common sense. What problems could indoor seating cause for any neighbor? Seems like a technical violation.

But because even a technicality violates the sacred Rules, don't expect much sympathy.

Posted on: 2015/7/14 14:49
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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EasyGibson wrote:
I don't think any of us here know exactly what their plans looked like when they filed or if there was even a need for a variance for the indoor seats.

It's just upsetting that such a simple thing can't be easily resolved.

Like I said, I can understand an issue with outdoor seating, especially if it wasn't in the plans, but the indoor stuff? Stop it. We should be able to deal with this.


We don't need to know (not even exactly!) what their plains looked like in order to understand some basic facts:
- it has already been established that their spot was zoned/approved for take out (specifically, no sitting)
- the owners moved in and opened up with seating and (maybe encouraged by their unchallenged transgressions) decided to add outdoor seating.

The "indoor stuff" was illegal. Why should neighbors have to "deal with it"? They could and should have applied for a variance and gone through the proper channels.

Posted on: 2015/7/14 14:10
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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I don't think any of us here know exactly what their plans looked like when they filed or if there was even a need for a variance for the indoor seats.

It's just upsetting that such a simple thing can't be easily resolved.

Like I said, I can understand an issue with outdoor seating, especially if it wasn't in the plans, but the indoor stuff? Stop it. We should be able to deal with this.

Posted on: 2015/7/14 14:00
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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EasyGIbson, Prato can apply for a variance, just like any other business. Great contucci, but why should they be exempt without even applying?

Posted on: 2015/7/14 13:30
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Man, you serious? They got bounced again?

I was just there over the weekend. I brought my Mom and sister. We sat there for an hour and caught up on life over cafe and cantucci.

Shame their couldn't be some kind of agreement worked out. Outside seating is one thing and I suppose I could understand the complaint there, but indoors? Come on.

Posted on: 2015/7/14 13:06
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Monroe wrote:
I'd say the quality of life issues that would impact the neighbors the hours the place is open trump anyone whining about how their espresso is consumed. It was Prato that tried to skirt the regulations and got caught doing so.


Yup, you know that old Italian saying - beccarse con il suo panino fuori. (to get caught with your panino outside). (apologies to any real Italian speakers)

Posted on: 2015/7/14 12:55
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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User1111, should they not have known the zoning regs before hand?

Posted on: 2015/7/14 12:27
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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I'd say the quality of life issues that would impact the neighbors the hours the place is open trump anyone whining about how their espresso is consumed. It was Prato that tried to skirt the regulations and got caught doing so.

Posted on: 2015/7/14 11:39
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Well I went again and now all the chairs are gone. Now its just take out, Jersey City #sucks the place that gives you such sweet, nothing!

Posted on: 2015/7/14 10:42
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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meh, between the cold pizza i got from them the 2nd time i went and this bit of apparent standard jersey politics, i think i'll just pass on returning. i can get a good croissant from choc o pain.

Posted on: 2015/7/11 3:18
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Who is Kristina Vlahovic? Does not appear we have facts involved, just guessing. Sounds like whining to me, before you do anything for your business, ensure that all permits are in place. Also, "flourishing" . . . Prato where were you five or ten years ago, just joined the bandwagon...I love the place, but this change.org thing is ridiculous to use for this purpose.

Posted on: 2015/7/10 19:30
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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DanL wrote:
wondering if this is related -

Amendment to Jersey City Land Development Ordinance for

Chapter 345, Article I, Section 6.
Definitions

345-??6.

CAFE ? A retail sales establishment engaged in selling of light meals and drinks where commercial kitchen appliances or ventilation systems are not permitted. Outdoor seating areas in the front and rear yard are permitted. Sidewalk cafes are permitted pursuant to Chapter 296, Article XII.


A little too coincidental for it not to be related. I love Prato, but it definitely appears like they flouted the existing zoning regulations and existing contractual obligations. I hate to see them be affected in any way, and certainly would not want to see them close, but they could and should have followed all the rules. Anyone arguing otherwise is arguing for a free-for-all environment in which anything goes, as long as you manage to get away with it. That's like the JC of old days. Do we really want to go back to that?

Posted on: 2015/7/10 18:10
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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wondering if this is related -

Amendment to Jersey City Land Development Ordinance for

Chapter 345, Article I, Section 6.
Definitions

345-??6.

CAFE ? A retail sales establishment engaged in selling of light meals and drinks where commercial kitchen appliances or ventilation systems are not permitted. Outdoor seating areas in the front and rear yard are permitted. Sidewalk cafes are permitted pursuant to Chapter 296, Article XII.

Posted on: 2015/7/10 17:21
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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AlexC wrote:
Just saw this - not sure what it meant:

Victory!

Maybe it means she's had her morning coffee? ;)

Posted on: 2015/7/9 14:58
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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I like Prato, but if the info on WiredJC is correct (and I know some of it is), then I have little sympathy for them in this dispute.

The developer of the building (not the bakery) deliberately built on or grabbed part of a neighbor's property. Apparently they settled, and part of the settlement was that the business could not operate as a restaurant, and could not use the backyard for their business.

It sounds like Prato violated both aspects of that settlement, and may have violated zoning laws to boot. I don't know if they did so as aggressively as the WiredJC thread suggests, but it sure looks like shenanigans to me.

I don't see why the Mayor should get involved. It was Prato's responsibility to know and abide by the zoning and/or other limits on their use of the space. The City has no business getting involved in a private dispute, and in fact their job should be enforcing whatever relevant zoning laws apply.

Posted on: 2015/7/9 14:55
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Just saw this - not sure what it meant:

Victory!

Kristina Vlahovic
Jersey City, NJ
Jul 9, 2015 ? Prato Bakery will be just fine!

https://www.change.org/p/please-help-p ... n_update&utm_medium=email

Quote:

K-Lo wrote:
http://www.wiredjc.com/index.php/topic,9993.msg57716/topicseen.html?PHPSESSID=1ienpinkprllq8po5fdlecbh71#new

A zoning dispute.

Posted on: 2015/7/9 14:07
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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http://www.wiredjc.com/index.php/topic,9993.msg57716/topicseen.html?PHPSESSID=1ienpinkprllq8po5fdlecbh71#new

A zoning dispute.

Posted on: 2015/7/9 11:20
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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More info on wiredjc.com. It looks like they tried to push their luck with the backyard and it backfired. That being said I don't see why they could not have a sitting area inside noise wise.

Again, this place is a gem.

Posted on: 2015/7/9 11:06
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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The city really needs to pick its battles wisely. We have stores throughout the city that sells illegal loose cigarettes on Ocean, MLK, Newark, Central and Grove streets and no one says or does anything but if a place like this adds a few chairs all hell breaks loose. Yuppie problems.

Posted on: 2015/7/9 10:40
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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jerseymom wrote:


JCCoffee - you seem to have a lot of information about this issue. Can you share with us who specifically told Prato on a number of occasions not to have outside seating?


I said "apparently". I don't know this situation personally at all. There is a similar discussion about this on WiredJC.


Posted on: 2015/7/9 2:54
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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I was just there yesterday did not know the situation, wish I did. I usually pop in there for an espresso, actually one of the best around, very smooth. I hope this gets resolved in a quick fashion. Next time I am in there I will see if they have a paper petition for me to sign.

Posted on: 2015/7/9 2:30
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Ugh, this place is amazing, probably my favorite 'new business" downtown -- food, ambiance, service -- it's all stellar. Someone needs to fix this. This is the kind of place that needs NOT to be deterred

Posted on: 2015/7/9 2:17
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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I would sign but they want personal information. Is there a paper or form I can do instead ? Also I would like more information on this issue, is there anything in city hall pertaining to this ?

Posted on: 2015/7/9 1:27
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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JCCoffee wrote:
Quote:

Frinjc wrote:


If zoning tries to take away their sitting area, I am fully available for a sitting in front of City Hall to help address this issue.



Just to be clear, Prato never technically had a sitting area outside. They were apparently told on a number of occasions they were not allowed to, but decided to go forward with it anyway.

This should not be a surprise to Prato. They will need to navigate the correct routes to get re-zoned, like everyone else.


JCCoffee - you seem to have a lot of information about this issue. Can you share with us who specifically told Prato on a number of occasions not to have outside seating?

Posted on: 2015/7/9 1:20
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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So the siting area inside still stands? No complain there?

Posted on: 2015/7/9 1:08
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Frinjc wrote:


If zoning tries to take away their sitting area, I am fully available for a sitting in front of City Hall to help address this issue.



Just to be clear, Prato never technically had a sitting area outside. They were apparently told on a number of occasions they were not allowed to, but decided to go forward with it anyway.

This should not be a surprise to Prato. They will need to navigate the correct routes to get re-zoned, like everyone else.

Posted on: 2015/7/9 1:01
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Re: Please Help Prato Bakery
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Signed and escalated. This place is a gem, I can't imagine people complaining about it. The person who did this needs to be checked mentally.

The interior and exterior layouts are not consistent with a take out only. If zoning tries to take away their sitting area, I am fully available for a sitting in front of City Hall to help address this issue.

I'll make my best to call City Hall tomorrow.

Posted on: 2015/7/9 0:27
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