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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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TwoBootsJC wrote:
As to Newport and the mall, they certainly like the mayor's proposal. It means their chain stores (which make up the bulk of their tenants) are stuck with them if they want to be in JC.

I found another article that is instructive and goes some way towards demolishing the myth that mom and pops can't compete with chains. (Apart from our own experience in metro NYC where indies proliferate.)

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102086968


Two Boots,

So you're okay with using government to push out your competitors but disagree when the same thing is done to you?

How ironic.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:34
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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hero69 wrote:
what i wouldn't do to be able to go to a cheesecake factory, california pizza kitcehn or chart house


This sentiment is the main reason why Jersey City is never really going to be a true alternative to Brooklyn.
bogus, there are many chain restaurants in brooklyn. who's to say that one can't have both! and sometimes i eat at chains in brooklyn and sometimes i don't. my choice. i don't need anyone telling me where to eat or shop.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:33
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I'm in favor of Fulop's plan. I love living here because we have independent stores and not chains. Give me 99 Cent Dream over Family Dollar any day, Tia's over H&M, Torico's over Baskin Robbins, Word over... well, I just order books from them instead of using Amazon, Left Bank over Applebees, Roman Nose over Olive Garden, 9Bar over Starbucks, WonderBagel over Panera, and I could go on. I don't care if the developers in the big new towers have to wait longer for the right lease to come along. I don't want my neighborhood looking like a generic shopping mall.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:31
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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WOW the comprehension here is unbelievable.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:23
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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jerseycity412 wrote:

chain establishments are those with 10 locations within 300 miles (so Two Boots wouldn't be considered a chain in this case).


Yes, they would. They have over 15 spots. Even the TWo BOots owner has acknowledged on this thread that he's a chain.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:19
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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As to Newport and the mall, they certainly like the mayor's proposal. It means their chain stores (which make up the bulk of their tenants) are stuck with them if they want to be in JC.

I found another article that is instructive and goes some way towards demolishing the myth that mom and pops can't compete with chains. (Apart from our own experience in metro NYC where indies proliferate.)

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102086968

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:19
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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hero69 wrote:
what i wouldn't do to be able to go to a cheesecake factory, california pizza kitcehn or chart house


This sentiment is the main reason why Jersey City is never really going to be a true alternative to Brooklyn.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:18
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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user1111 wrote:
I despise Duane Reade


I do too, but if my choice is Duane Reade or Palace Drugs, no contest. Upon entering Palace Drugs one is SURE to get some sort of STD on the spot.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:13
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Monroe wrote:
Why is Newport exempt??


Because the city WILL get sued if they do it in Newport. They only MIGHT get sued everywhere else....

Posted on: 2015/4/9 16:11
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Monroe wrote:
Why is Newport exempt??


Newport is a newer neighborhood unlike "Historic Downtown" which goes way back, when I first moved dtjc back in the day It was just mom & pop stores from Bakeries, Butchers, Electronic, Camera Shops, Coffee beans, Carpet Stores, Pharmacy, etc those were the days.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 15:32
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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user1111 wrote:
I despise Duane Reade


+1

Why is the Duana Reade at Grove Pointe the most expensive Duane Reade I've ever frequented? The prices are ridiculous.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 15:28
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Monroe wrote:
Why is Newport exempt??


Possibly because it's mostly private land so something was probably negotiated with the Lefraks. Either that or because Newport is beyond redemption given its 80s-era street setup.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 15:24
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Why is Newport exempt??

Posted on: 2015/4/9 15:20
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I despise Duane Reade

Posted on: 2015/4/9 15:14
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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jrsygrl wrote:
I'm really surprised by all of the love for chain/box stores. Maybe someday they could just move the mall to Newark Avenue, or we could see what makes the stores along route 22 so successful and make that happen here.
it is not a question of love...it is a question of CHOICE and convenience. some people may prefer chain restaurants and such, why should they be denied/mocked.

i'd much rather shop in a nice, clean duane reade than in one of those mom & pop pharmacies that look like a 3rtd world sh_thole. and what i wouldn't do to be able to go to a cheesecake factory, california pizza kitcehn or chart house

Posted on: 2015/4/9 14:52
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I'm really surprised by all of the love for chain/box stores. Maybe someday they could just move the mall to Newark Avenue, or we could see what makes the stores along route 22 so successful and make that happen here.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 14:45
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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jerseycity412 wrote:
I agree with many on this list that limiting chain stores could have a negative effect if there is another economic downturn, but I do agree with Fulop that small businesses especially restaurants can attract visitors unlike chains.

Just to point out as I feel people think no chains will be allowed in DTJC, the ordinance is only limiting the amount. Based on the article I read the ordinance is imiting chain stores to 30% of downtown commercial space (so Starbucks and Duane Reade would most likely stay even if a lease ran out) and chain establishments are those with 10 locations within 300 miles (so Two Boots wouldn't be considered a chain in this case). With this being said I agree with the post that it would be better to make the approval process for a chain more stringent as making a regulation like this could have future negative effects. Right now there are tons of small-business restaurants on newark in construction that seem like they will never get opened - this doesn't help our local economy either.

I have to agree that I would love a Chipotle in DTJC. We have enough pizza joints to last a lifetime so even this would give us some variety.


It's not 30% of downtown. It's 30% of a building. So, if it wasn't already there, Duane Reade could be 30% the size it is now. For smaller stores on Newark Ave., they obviously can't be chopped up into bits as a 30/70 split, so for all intents and purposes chains are impossible there.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 14:36
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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not that it has much character, buti wouldn't want dtjc to become chainsville. at the same time, i don't appreciate fulop and team trying to deny me the potential pleasure of eating at chipotle, olive garden or any other restaurant that wanted to open downtown.


Posted on: 2015/4/9 14:18
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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From nj.com

By Terrence T. McDonald | The Jersey Journal
on April 09, 2015 at 8:34 AM

The Fulop administration is proposing rules intended to limit chain stores in the city's Downtown.

The new rules, given initial approval at Tuesday night's Planning Board meeting by a 7-1 vote, seek to preserve and protect the character of Downtown neighborhoods, Mayor Steve Fulop told The Jersey Journal. The measure now goes before the City Council.

"Mom-and-pop-type retailers protect that and foster that and encourage that," Fulop said.

Fulop noted that the owners of the former Hard Grove Cafe intend to convert that space, located across the street from the Grove Street PATH station in a heavily trafficked area of the Downtown, into a bank.

The proposed rules define chain stores as those having "multiple locations within the region that exhibit standardized characteristics such as logos, menus, store decor" and more. The rules would limit chains to only a maximum of 30 percent of ground-floor commercial space Downtown, with some portions of the Waterfront exempt, including Newport. Grocery stores would not be affected.

Business groups are opposed. John Holub, president of the New Jersey Retail Merchant Association, said he objects to Fulop trying to keep out large chain stores "by government fiat."

"We totally are obviously supportive of a vibrant, independent retail sector in the city, but to artificially try to control market forces is troubling," Holub said.
San Francisco began limiting chain stores in 2004 and Nantucket banned chains from their Downtown in 2006.

Fulop said he wants to expand the rules outside of Downtown, but he wants to see more investment in areas like Journal Square or Bergen-Lafayette, whether franchises or not, before limiting chain stores there.

Stefania Cocozza owns Nine Bar Cafe, a coffeehouse that opened on Erie Street in January. Cocozza said Fulop's plan is "a totally great idea," but cautioned that it's not a cure-all to protect the city's small-business owners.

"What kicks out the small-business owner is, unfortunately, the rent, the taxes," she told The Jersey Journal.

Aaron Morrill, who owns Newark Avenue's Two Boots Pizza, which has about 12 locations in the metropolitan area, called Fulop's plan well-intentioned, but said a better idea would be for a city board to review a chain store's request to move into a Downtown commercial district.

If there are vacant storefronts and small business owners aren't renting them, a Shake Shack or similar franchise should be able to, Morrill said.

"If the Downtown is overrun by chain stores, it wouldn't be bad to have a board to say we're putting a stop to it, no more," he said. "But the way they have it now it has the potential to create a Downtown wasteland."

Posted on: 2015/4/9 13:13
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Sorry, what did you all say? I'm still stuck on the fact that Chipotle is the #2 spot for a first date. And I thought I was a cheapskate...

Posted on: 2015/4/9 13:02
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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[quote]
vindication15 wrote:
sleep cheap
national discount store
99 cent dream
super discount

If Sleep Cheap is the store 3 or 4 in from Barrow it is already closed.
I imagine Newark Avenue looking and feeling very different by the summer when all the restaurants under construction might be open.
I would like to see City Hall focus on an incentive for the owners of the CH Martin building and the other big retail space to its east to divide their spaces into smaller stores, rather than spending sleepless nights worrying about Apple, Armani or Applebee's opening here.


Posted on: 2015/4/9 11:57
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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dtjcview wrote:
I'm a little on the fence on this one. But we should start with better facade management like nyc.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/sbs/downloads ... ents/sbs_facade_guide.pdf
i agree better facade management is the key, not whether it is a chain or not. if olive garden wants to open a store downtown, it should be allowed as long as it adheres to certain guidelines. and chain stores bring JOBS just as much as mom and pops.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 11:14
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Big Fulop supporter, but this is just stupid and a major discredit to the consumer.

Look at the block on Grove between Columbus and Wayne, which is prime commercial real estate, and now is 90% vacant as results of mom and pops not being able to make it. A1 is gone, MYPXPLX (however the hell is spelled) gone, the stupid furniture store gone, hard grove gone, flower shop gone....

So us consumers are going to be forced to overpay for stuff we want?

The amount of life that something like a Buffalo Wild Wings would inject into that area if one were to exist would be phenomenal, and I'm amazed one isn't here yet. It is silly to attempt to prevent such a thing from occurring.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 7:20
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I'm a little on the fence on this one. But we should start with better facade management like nyc.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/sbs/downloads ... ents/sbs_facade_guide.pdf

Posted on: 2015/4/9 5:14
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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Butter wrote:
I'd rather have the 99 cent store than some posh store that caters to the chronically boring.
If you want stores that cater to the rich and famous go to Soho, rich and bland, go to Short Hills.


99 stores are for who..he fun and ecletic? Lol. Sorry your cheap-o stores on newark are all going bye bye. The market is thankfully changing, and there is no longer a need for so many cheapo stores in that radius.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 4:15
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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"San Francisco's tough restrictions on chain stores may be keeping rents lower for independent shop owners, but also may be boosting the number of long-shuttered storefronts, a study of the city's formula retail rules has found."

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article ... n-chain-store-5425639.php

And San Francisco's system is far less restrictive that the one proposed by our mayor!

Let's have a serious debate about this before it goes any further!

Posted on: 2015/4/9 4:14
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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EthanCrane wrote:
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do that many people really want chain stores?

When I moved to NYC in the early 90s, it was full of independent shops. Now, every block has a bank and a massive drug store.

As JC gentrifies, Fulop wants it to keep its own special feel. Fulop's proposal is good for downtown and pro-small business.


Well, aren't you precious? And why does it have to be binary? Sometimes I want something special to wear, so I go to Tia's. Sometimes I just need a plain t-shirt, so I go to the Gap. I rarely dine at chain restaurants, but when I'm stressed out, I'm not above going to McDonald's or Chipotle to pig out. The whole point is having variety and choice.

I am really having buyer's remorse with Fulop now. His cancellation of the property reval was pretty bad, but if he moves ahead with this, it could very well cost him a lot of support downtown. I don't think they've thought through the consequences. For example, are drug store chains exempt? If not, does the city realize that by discouraging drug store chains from coming here, they're hurting people who are served by specific prescription benefits plans? I remember when I first moved to JC, the nearest drug store that took my prescription drug plan was a Rite Aid in the West Village. It really sucked having to hop on the PATH to fill a prescription, especially when you're not feeling well. I once tried to get a prescription filled at this shitty - but "mom and pop" - pharmacy on Jersey & Wayne about 12 years ago. Not only was the place filthy, but they acted surprised that I wanted something other than methadone. It was a very good year when my prescription drug plan expanded to include Duane Reade and one actually opened downtown. So, yes, bring on the massive drug stores. You know why? They're the ones likely to participate in the most prescription drug plans due to their scale. Does Fulop really want to walk the city back from that sort of progress?

Posted on: 2015/4/9 3:38
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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sleep cheap
national discount store
99 cent dream
super discount

That meets the strict criteria of having those words in the name. Although most would also agree that ch martin and rainbow aren't necessarily targeting the rich and famous...

You mean standards of the majority of americans? Cheap is walmart, 99 cent is desperate. [/quote]

I guess you haven't walked around Newark Ave lately, as two or three of those stores are now closed.
I'd rather have the 99 cent store than some posh store that caters to the chronically boring.
If you want stores that cater to the rich and famous go to Soho, rich and bland, go to Short Hills.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 3:09
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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MikeyTBC wrote:
Quote:

vindication15 wrote:
Quote:

EthanCrane wrote:
I can't believe what I'm reading here. Do that many people really want chain stores?

When I moved to NYC in the early 90s, it was full of independent shops. Now, every block has a bank and a massive drug store.

As JC gentrifies, Fulop wants it to keep its own special feel. Fulop's proposal is good for downtown and pro-small business.


where do you live? cause it's not dtjc. Right now, that special feel is the "99 cent value bargain feel" as there are at least 4 stores with the words cheap, dollar, bargain, and value in them within a 5 block radius. We could use a lot more chain stores.

In fact, how about we propose that we can only have 1 value/99 cent store within a half a mile of each other. If we want government overreach, let's at least overreach in the right direction...


name them. If I'm guessing correctly, I can think of three but really, one is a neighborhood department store that just doesn't live up to your standards.


edit: eh, for some reason I thought you said five. whatever, I wont call you a liar. I just disagree.


sleep cheap
national discount store
99 cent dream
super discount

That meets the strict criteria of having those words in the name. Although most would also agree that ch martin and rainbow aren't necessarily targeting the rich and famous...

You mean standards of the majority of americans? Cheap is walmart, 99 cent is desperate.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 2:45
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Re: Jersey City Mayor Seeks to Limit Chain Stores Downtown
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I agree with many on this list that limiting chain stores could have a negative effect if there is another economic downturn, but I do agree with Fulop that small businesses especially restaurants can attract visitors unlike chains.

Just to point out as I feel people think no chains will be allowed in DTJC, the ordinance is only limiting the amount. Based on the article I read the ordinance is imiting chain stores to 30% of downtown commercial space (so Starbucks and Duane Reade would most likely stay even if a lease ran out) and chain establishments are those with 10 locations within 300 miles (so Two Boots wouldn't be considered a chain in this case). With this being said I agree with the post that it would be better to make the approval process for a chain more stringent as making a regulation like this could have future negative effects. Right now there are tons of small-business restaurants on newark in construction that seem like they will never get opened - this doesn't help our local economy either.

I have to agree that I would love a Chipotle in DTJC. We have enough pizza joints to last a lifetime so even this would give us some variety.

Posted on: 2015/4/9 1:28
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