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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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I moved into Metropolis Towers almost 5 years ago and remain here today. There have been a couple of times I considered moving into a different building downtown, but really did not want to go through the headache or expense of moving so I remain here.

I've been lurking around the forum for some time, but since this topic came up, I decided to create an account and post to give some insight into living here.

The place is not as bad as some make it out to be. I had a major roach problem when I moved in as well as several leaks. All issues were swiftly dealt with by management. I've been able to create a nice, cozy place in my spacious studio. Many of the other tenants here do not seem to take the same pride in their living space. My impression is that a lot of maintenance issues go unreported until a serious problem arises which affects other units. On that thread, Ive recently noticed the quality of people moving is is improving. The residents are changing and with this, I can only image that improvements will be made on a consistent basis to keep up with a more demanding clientele. That makes me hopeful for the future of the buildings. The major thing that keeps me here is that the building is freaking slab concrete and I cannot hear my neighbors. I occasionally here people in the hallway; but upstairs, downstairs, left and right, I hear absolutely nothing. A good night of sleep is important to me.

Its common knowledge amongst the tenants here that the parking lot and parcel will soon be under development now that the ground has been cleaned. I can only imagine that these "ugly buildings" will one day be "boutique and retro" compared to the stark and stale high rises going up around block. My neighbor bought her apartment back in the 80s and I can only imagine how little she paid compared to what it is worth today. You have to remember that the towers are not just renters, they are home owners and many would be against packing up and leaving under eminent domain. The buyout would need to be more than fair for them to let go of that investment. Eminent domain does not even seem like a slight possibility.

Regarding the balconies; I really cant say whats up. I've been told that they are slightly raked for rain water runoff. Who knows. Last year, I received a note on my door alerting me to give access for engineers to inspect it. Everyone with a balcony had that note, so its possible there is an issue, or it might have just been an inspection that happens every few years. I am not sure why the scaffolding is around both buildings, might have something to do with it? Scaffolds went up years ago, came down, and then quickly went back up. I have not asked management about it.

Regarding the front desk staff and management, you get what you give. I am always friendly and nice to them and I get the same in return. They say hello, are courteous when I lock myself out of my apartment, and they will flag me down if they know I have a package waiting.

The only gripe I have about the building is not the age of it, how it looks, or how much retail space the parking lot is taking up. It's that we have a lot of tenants who just do not take much pride in where they live. They smoke in the stairwells, throw garbage on the rubbish room floor (too lazy to actually put the bag down the shoot), sweep their floor out into the hallway, let their kids ride bikes in the hallway at 11PM, keep household junk on the balconies, and so on. Also, this is not a building designed for children. My lord there are so many people here crapping out kids! Where are they keeping them?! I've seen couples with two kids exiting apartments I know are studios. But like I stated above, the people disrespecting their living space are slowing moving out. It's going to be a nice change for the building. One day I might be priced out too! You never know...

Posted on: 2014/11/8 2:13
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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FakeGreenDress wrote:
If you're curious about the redevelopment plans for Metropolis Towers, looks like they're presenting the plans at the HPHA meeting tonight: http://www.icontact-archive.com/T5pNC ... 6cHiOyRAkqjqCrL-Mva0D?w=1
so, what are the plans? pray tell

Posted on: 2014/11/7 2:43
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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If you're curious about the redevelopment plans for Metropolis Towers, looks like they're presenting the plans at the HPHA meeting tonight: http://www.icontact-archive.com/T5pNC ... 6cHiOyRAkqjqCrL-Mva0D?w=1

Posted on: 2014/11/6 20:46
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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JGJDNYCJC wrote:
Land values being what they are, the (largely middle income) owners presumably know that they're sitting on a gold mine and that open parking lots are no longer a good use of the land.

Someone earlier had alluded to the recent remediation efforts. Presumably, we will soon see large scale building at the street level all around Montgomery, Marin and Columbus. Hopefully some mix of apartments and retail, with stacked parking for all the cars currently spread around the property.


I think that's pretty much the exact plan that got held up by the soil remediation.

Those buildings have a very complex financial history and nearly went bankrupt at one point. It is now part co-op and part rental, but I think you still can't get a loan to buy in, so most of the new co-op residents are people coming from abroad and paying cash.

When I lived there I rented from the company that owned (and renovated) a large number of the units, but you can also rent from individual co-op owners.

Posted on: 2014/10/30 15:17
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Land values being what they are, the (largely middle income) owners presumably know that they're sitting on a gold mine and that open parking lots are no longer a good use of the land.

Someone earlier had alluded to the recent remediation efforts. Presumably, we will soon see large scale building at the street level all around Montgomery, Marin and Columbus. Hopefully some mix of apartments and retail, with stacked parking for all the cars currently spread around the property.

Posted on: 2014/10/30 14:31
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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I don't have a huge problem with the aesthetics of the buildings as long as they are either built in front of, or added onto, to support street-facing retail on the Columbus, Marin, and Montgomery sides.

Posted on: 2014/10/30 14:09
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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They are still co-ops, and the original purchasers were the renters who were there originally, way back when. I believe the management company now owns a large number of them - I'm not entirely sure how that came about, but I'll bet Yvonne does. If it's like most co-ops, owners would own a fraction of the total property based on the size of the apartment. Once the parking lots get developed, I imagine some of those people are going to be pretty wealthy.

Posted on: 2014/10/30 13:22
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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What is the status of the apartments? In an earlier post someone wrote that they were coops - is that still the case? If it is, I wonder how much of the vacant land is included as part of a shareholder's purchase.

Posted on: 2014/10/30 11:23
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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bjay wrote:
Finally, here's a pic from 1973 that I believe is Columbus (then Railroad Avenue) looking east from about Jersey Avenue. You can see 30 Montgomery (the Ukrainian National Association building) in the distance on the right, and then the World Trade Center in the background.


Yes. CC Blvd / Railroad Ave is one of the few streets downtown wide enough to accommodate head-in parking. Very northern & western Hobokenish. The road has since been changed to two lanes in either direction.

Posted on: 2014/10/30 1:06
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Posted on: 2014/10/30 0:54
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Bubble_Tea wrote:

That's super interesting. Would be cool to see a picture of Columbus pre-Gregory Complex.


A great source of historical photos is the photostream on Flickr posted by Andy Blair. Here is a link for the following photo of the location of the Gregory Apartments (now Metropolis Towers), and you should read all the commentary at the link. The view is from what is now Marin at the end of Wayne Street. The two diagonal streets are Gregory St. (in the foreground) and Newark Ave. (farther back). Off to the left is Railroad Ave. (now Columbus) with the elevated railroad tracks, and in the distance is the Harborside building.
Resized Image


And here's a Flickr link to a picture looking east on Columbus from the corner of Grove, when the railroad tracks were being demolished in 1965. He also posted this Flickr link showing an aerial view of Harborside, Exchange Place, and the First Jersey National Bank on Hudson between Montgomery and Columbus, in 1970. It's worth browsing through his whole photostream.

To see the layout of the streets, here is a map from 1848.
Resized Image


And here is a link to the 1928 map.

Finally, here's a pic from 1973 that I believe is Columbus (then Railroad Avenue) looking east from about Jersey Avenue. You can see 30 Montgomery (the Ukrainian National Association building) in the distance on the right, and then the World Trade Center in the background. It's a screengrab from this YouTube video. Check out that whole section of the video, from 3:11 to 3:26.

Resized Image


Posted on: 2014/10/29 23:03
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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PremiumContent wrote:
I'm curious as to why some of the most affordable units downtown should be eliminated in favor of what most assuredly would be luxury rate apartments. Developments on the surface parking have already been planned.

Probably because the guy who doesn't know about the planned development also isn't very interested in affordable housing in DTJC...

Posted on: 2014/10/29 2:08
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Maise wrote:
All I know is that it looks to me like all of the balconies are several years (or less) away from becoming extremely unsafe. I am not an structural engineer and could definitely be misreading the situation, but I lived across the street at 50 columbus and when you look at the balconies dead on, they look like they are hanging by a thread (some more than others).



I live in metropolis and by chance my friend who is a stuctural engineer visited earlier this year. He didn't mention any problems when we stood out there, even after carefully scrutinizing the concrete.

I'm curious as to why some of the most affordable units downtown should be eliminated in favor of what most assuredly would be luxury rate apartments. Developments on the surface parking have already been planned.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 19:12
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Yvonne wrote:
Another tidbit of information, when they the knocked down the buildings and dug the foundation for the Gregory Complex, remnants of a sailing vessel was found. The shore line changed over the years.


That's super interesting. Would be cool to see a picture of Columbus pre-Gregory Complex.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 14:45
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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PotStirJC wrote:
Although only built about 15 years ago, the Metropolis Towers cooperative buildings are the eye-sore of DTJC. What could be prime walkable retail space and beautiful redevelopment directly adjacent to the Grove Street PATH station is instead an abhorrent waste of horrific architecture, nonexistent maintenance, and driveway gravel. Given these properties? low values, I decided to take a look at the feasibility of eminent domain on this massive property.

I used 99 Hudson as a comp. It is a 1.74 acre property that sold for $71,000,000 last year, or about $934.21 per SF. The Metropolis Tower property (both towers) combines to form 8.34 acres. Yes, 99 Hudson is Waterfront, but the Metropolis Towers are closer to the Grove Street PATH, and this means more access to Midtown Manhattan. So even if we lower the sales price to $900/sf, the site is worth $325M before improvements.

The Metropolis Towers have 390 units. That means if the city applies a fair market value of $500k each to the coop owners (and they are worth much less than that), the city is looking at a profit of $130M. This really seems like a financial no-brainer of a redevelopment project for the city if it really wants to take advantage of Jersey City?s ?renaissance.? These funds could be applied anywhere, and city doesn?t just come up with $130M everyday.

Just some thoughts.


A private company could offer the same to the owners. But I'm sure there are a million Jersey City-imposed road blocks and hoops to jump through. The solution would be to remove those.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 14:41
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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PotStirJC wrote:
Although only built about 15 years ago, the Metropolis Towers cooperative buildings are the eye-sore of DTJC. What could be prime walkable retail space and beautiful redevelopment directly adjacent to the Grove Street PATH station is instead an abhorrent waste of horrific architecture, nonexistent maintenance, and driveway gravel. Given these properties? low values, I decided to take a look at the feasibility of eminent domain on this massive property.

I used 99 Hudson as a comp. It is a 1.74 acre property that sold for $71,000,000 last year, or about $934.21 per SF. The Metropolis Tower property (both towers) combines to form 8.34 acres. Yes, 99 Hudson is Waterfront, but the Metropolis Towers are closer to the Grove Street PATH, and this means more access to Midtown Manhattan. So even if we lower the sales price to $900/sf, the site is worth $325M before improvements.

The Metropolis Towers have 390 units. That means if the city applies a fair market value of $500k each to the coop owners (and they are worth much less than that), the city is looking at a profit of $130M. This really seems like a financial no-brainer of a redevelopment project for the city if it really wants to take advantage of Jersey City?s ?renaissance.? These funds could be applied anywhere, and city doesn?t just come up with $130M everyday.

Just some thoughts.


A private company could offer the same to the owners. But I'm sure there are a million Jersey City-imposed road blocks and hoops to jump through. The solution would be to remove those.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 14:41
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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ianmac47 wrote:
Did everyone miss the part where the owner is planning on redeveloping the project and simply was side tracked by chromium cleanup (finished!) and economic depression (fixed for rich people!).

Pretty good chance this whole thing will resolve itself in another year or two anyway.


Agreed. At least they have something planned. What about 100 Montgomery and 72 Montgomery (Battery View and Paulus Hook Towers)?

Again, it's not the buildings or the people that I have an issue with. It's the parking lots that could be developed and made into pedestrian friendly retail.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 14:34
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Did everyone miss the part where the owner is planning on redeveloping the project and simply was side tracked by chromium cleanup (finished!) and economic depression (fixed for rich people!).

Pretty good chance this whole thing will resolve itself in another year or two anyway.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 14:18
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Posted on: 2014/10/28 14:07
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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These buildings are not a problem-- the city should not be using eminent domain on them or trying to knock them down. It is the *parking lots* and the wrought iron fences that surround them that are a bane to Downtown.

Fortunately, once remediated that land will be very valuable so I'm confident the market will play out and the owners of these towers (if they are sane) will realize that they can consolidate the buildings' parking into a far less sprawling deck, then sell the remainder of the acreage to a developer for a king's ransom.

The important role that the city has to play in this is using whatever leverage they have to pressure the new developer into making a *public* pedestrian through-way that connects Columbus and Montgomery between Marin and Warren. That huge chunk of land currently impedes on walkability in the heart of downtown.

No public through-way, no abatement. This is one time when I can get behind the city using a (short) abatement as a carrot for a developer.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 13:00
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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At the risk of clipping the creativity and free expression of our born again Huxtables and Muschamps, how are these buildings uglier than the Cali Building or Grove Pointe?

The Metropolis Towers have a clear architectural ancestry - from housing built in Germany, Austria and Netherlands between the war to Le Corbusier's Unites onward to buildings like SOM's Manhattan House which I think has been landmarked.

Spruce up the building, build a pedestrian Main Street of shops whose sizes complement the large spaces on Newark and open some space for recreation is my suggestion.

If we are going to create a new legal concept - EED - Eyesore Eminent Domain - let's start small - with those miserable houses across from Key Food.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 11:52
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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PotStirJC wrote:
1. The current use of the space impedes upon the master plan of the city.



What is said master plan? Copy/paste or a link would be great!

Posted on: 2014/10/28 11:08
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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PotStirJC wrote:
You have it completely wrong. What I don't like is the caged off wasteland of 8 acres at the heart of the downtown that I have to walk by every day and night....

Then change your route. Problem solved.


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that has so much more potential than you are even remotely capable of envisioning.

Like all the other massive towers that are going up all over DTJC? Surely you don't think the city is going to spend the money to declare ED, fight the owners for 10 years, to build a park?


Quote:
And furthermore, these giant fenced walls protect what appear to be two gargantuan alien cockroaches that seem on the verge of collapse without any help from a wrecking ball.

1) They don't look any uglier than any other big tower in DTJC.
2) You don't live in those buildings, so why is it your problem?


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With taxpayer dollars? No, this would be a financial grand slam for the city...

No, it won't.

First, the city would have to litigate the daylights out of it.

Second, even if they won somehow, they'd have to pay market rate for the property. Not cheap.

Third, someone would have to pay to knock everything down, make sure the ground isn't toxic, and rebuild whatever you imagine is beautiful in its place (or else you'll just want to knock it down again, amirite?). I'm sure any developers will try to put that on the city's tab.

Fourth, lots of downtown development pushes for extensive tax abatements. So the city is not going to get a lot of RE taxes from this.


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This is just fun speculation.

So knocking down people's homes is your idea of fun? Good to know.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 3:00
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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LittleJimSheehy wrote:
Let's say the Mayor hated brownstones. After all, they are relics of a bygone era, and do not fit into Jersey City's modern, increasingly vertical aesthetic. ....

Further, removing every brownstone in favor of higher-density development fits your economic development standard: While brownstones (and the 1/4-acre or so of land on which they sit) are generally assessed between $500K and $1M, buildings like 50 Columbus and Grove Pointe are assessed at between $20M and $30M - just for the building(s).


Understand your point, and agree with your eminent domain argument, but your math is off by a factor of 10, at least. No brownstone has a quarter acre.

A generous brownstone lot would be 20' x 100' = 2000 square feet. An acre is 43,560 square feet. That brownstone lot would be 4.6% of one acre. That's less than one-twentieth of an acre.

Cheers!

Posted on: 2014/10/28 2:31
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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"And furthermore, these giant fenced walls protect what appear to be two gargantuan alien cockroaches that seem on the verge of collapse without any help from a wrecking ball."

Well, at least you've got the JCList propensity for hyperbole down. Good job.

Posted on: 2014/10/28 1:01
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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LittleJimSheehy wrote:

Though it should be relatively obvious from my posts, I'm a lawyer who, as a large part of my practice, does exactly this (urban redevelopment) for a living. Heck, I even do it from a redeveloper's point of view -- meaning, I'd normally be on the side trying to make these arguments (i.e., I represent redevelopers who purchase and develop property like this -- and know that the Montgomery Towers property is literally almost the most valuable parcel of land in New Jersey). Given all this, I can tell you as a matter of law (and, frankly, as a matter of fact), the City could never do what's being proposed here, given that it would contravene NJ statutory and case law.


Hey LittleJim, I do appreciate the case references. You are clearly more in tune with logic and rationale than most of these. What a shame that Kelo case is...

Posted on: 2014/10/28 0:34
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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JCMan8 wrote:
I love how there are some laymen who claim to know exactly how to interpret a series of laws and what is Constitutional and what isn't.

It's probably asking too much, but I'd love to hear from an actual lawyer who knows what they're talking about. For what it's worth, I've never heard of anything like this in NJ and suspect anyone who acts like condemning these buildings is a given has no clue about what they're talking about.


Though it should be relatively obvious from my posts, I'm a lawyer who, as a large part of my practice, does exactly this (urban redevelopment) for a living. Heck, I even do it from a redeveloper's point of view -- meaning, I'd normally be on the side trying to make these arguments (i.e., I represent redevelopers who purchase and develop property like this -- and know that the Montgomery Towers property is literally almost the most valuable parcel of land in New Jersey). Given all this, I can tell you as a matter of law (and, frankly, as a matter of fact), the City could never do what's being proposed here, given that it would contravene NJ statutory and case law.

Posted on: 2014/10/27 23:32
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Conformist wrote:
...it would be legally possible, which is the only point of my posts.


?Possible? wasn?t your only point. You wrote, ?It would probably be a good idea.?

Would that be your advice to a client?that an ostensibly unethical abuse of eminent domain?s intent, which would also be expensive, likely to fail, and most certainly harmful to your client?s public image, is a ?good idea??


I am making no pretensions of giving a legal opinion, which is obvious since the city isn't even here to receive one. It would be a good idea from a public policy perspective, from my view as a citizen, which includes a belief that your post's assumptions about the likelihood of failure and costs are incorrect. Lawyers are certainly allowed to opine on public policy. Also, from a citizen's perspective, I don't care a whit about the city's "public image" vis-a-vis policy. I want the city to carry out good policy whether it makes city government unpopular or not. Ideally good policy in the long run makes government popular, but the public certainly frequently doesn't know what's good for it in the short-term.

Posted on: 2014/10/27 22:53
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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devilsadvocate wrote:
Let me see if I have this right: you don't like the way the towers look so you want to use eminent domain on them (likely resulting in an expensive lawsuit, that even if successful will result in a huge payout) because you don't fancy the way they look? All with taxpayer dollars? Just no. If you want to use eminent domain to redevelop properties in JC, this isn't even the prime candidate. Hell, you can start by getting rid of a lot of the public housing and homeless shelters in and around DTJC for far less (especially since public housing is presumably owned by the city).

Anyway, stop wasting everyone's time.


You have it completely wrong. What I don't like is the caged off wasteland of 8 acres at the heart of the downtown that I have to walk by every day and night, that has so much more potential than you are even remotely capable of envisioning. And furthermore, these giant fenced walls protect what appear to be two gargantuan alien cockroaches that seem on the verge of collapse without any help from a wrecking ball.

With taxpayer dollars? No, this would be a financial grand slam for the city, and even the most resistant to the idea of using Eminent Domain on this site have acknowledged that over and over.

This is just fun speculation. If you think I am "wasting people's time" then don't participate. I imagine a better Jersey City. I embrace progress. I am just pointing out the one major section that seems to have been passed by and offering a solution.

Posted on: 2014/10/27 22:50
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Re: Eminent Domain on Metropolis Towers
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Let me see if I have this right: you don't like the way the towers look so you want to use eminent domain on them (likely resulting in an expensive lawsuit, that even if successful will result in a huge payout) because you don't fancy the way they look? All with taxpayer dollars? Just no. If you want to use eminent domain to redevelop properties in JC, this isn't even the prime candidate. Hell, you can start by getting rid of a lot of the public housing and homeless shelters in and around DTJC for far less (especially since public housing is presumably owned by the city).

Anyway, stop wasting everyone's time.

Posted on: 2014/10/27 22:25
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