JERSEY CITY LIST - Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say [Politics & Government]

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Dodge, dodge, dodge. It is quite clear that ianmac is a NY Brooklyn hipster troll-he wants NJ taxpayers to cover bi-state infrastructure that also benefits NY, and wants a say in how NJ compensates their teachers, while not paying NJ taxes.

It must be killing him how fast charter schools will soon replace the NY public school system, at least if the parents have a say in it.

Strong words for an anonymous coward.

A coward who is paying more in NJ real estate taxes to support NJ students than you pay in your rent stabilized Williamsburg apartment?

Yup, a coward with skin in the game you lack. That's me! :)

Posted on: 2014/10/3 16:04

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Monroe wrote:
Dodge, dodge, dodge. It is quite clear that ianmac is a NY Brooklyn hipster troll-he wants NJ taxpayers to cover bi-state infrastructure that also benefits NY, and wants a say in how NJ compensates their teachers, while not paying NJ taxes.

It must be killing him how fast charter schools will soon replace the NY public school system, at least if the parents have a say in it.

Strong words for an anonymous coward.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 15:46

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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dtjc, their real point is that they want zero accountability when it comes to tenured teachers who can't teach-hence the 'there is no way to measure how well a teacher teaches' meme.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 15:38

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
...
The trouble with linking teacher salaries with performance is there is no good way to measure it.
...

There is exactly the same issue in the private sector, if your job doesn't directly contribute to corporate revenue eg: sales staff.

Other staff are simply ranked within their grade and compensated, based on feedback from a collection of sources - managers, peers, etc. And the ranking is typically as simply as - outstanding, ok, could do better.

Can't be that hard to put something similar - that's also reasonably fair and transparent - into the JCPS system.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 15:36

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Dodge, dodge, dodge. It is quite clear that ianmac is a NY Brooklyn hipster troll-he wants NJ taxpayers to cover bi-state infrastructure that also benefits NY, and wants a say in how NJ compensates their teachers, while not paying NJ taxes.

It must be killing him how fast charter schools will soon replace the NY public school system, at least if the parents have a say in it.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 15:18

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
ianmac and trambone object to my thoughts that we should reward great teachers with higher salaries, and get rid of teachers that underperform and don't deliver a great education to our children.

I'm for the kids. They, seemingly, are for defending lousy teachers and keeping the status quo that leads to, at least in JC, 1/3 of children not graduating-despite the fact that JC spends much more per student than the state average.

(And, as a NJ taxpayer, I've got skin in the game). Ianmac lives in Brooklyn-what's your tie to NJ/JC education? Are you a teacher who knee jerk reacts to any proposal to remove lousy teachers and disturb the status quo?

I would never teach in a primary school because salaries are simply too low to compete with the private sector. But why would you want someone with an advanced degree teaching public school kids anyway...

The trouble with linking teacher salaries with performance is there is no good way to measure it. Linking pay to test scores is a really great way to measure how well teachers can cheat on standardized tests. That's literally just about the only thing it does. Moreover, its difficult to link student success with a single teacher. A student isn't the product of the most recent teacher, but an entire series of teachers along the way.

Linking salaries to college acceptances, as has been suggested here, is also problematic. There are plenty of careers that don't require college degrees but that do require high school level skills, and plenty of students simply aren't going onto a higher degree program.

There has been no real success with linking student performances with teacher pay.

As far as getting rid of bad teachers, I don't disagree with that. And there probably needs to be an easier way to remove bad teachers from the classroom. But if you are going to get rid of all the mediocre teachers, there simply aren't enough good teachers at the present pay rates to keep enough teachers around.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 14:08

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Let's take the low average, and say 5% of the over 100,000 teachers shouldn't be teaching.

That's over 5,000 teachers educating over 100,000 kids.

100,000 kids being shortchanged because of those who want to defend the status quo at all costs.

Because it's not about the children to them, it's about keeping lousy teachers in their jobs.

Which is disgusting.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 12:07

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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trambone wrote:
...
How many bad teachers are there really? By your posts I assume you think at least 90% of the teachers in schools are bad. How do you define a bad teacher? A good teacher?

.

I must admit I'm learning a lot during the course of this thread. I didn't know that Christie had already passed a law - TEACH NJ - to make it much easier to remove poorly performing teachers. And I'm guessing that the events in the Newark mayor race forced a major rethink on how to tackle teacher performance at a practical level.

That probably means changing the focus from "weeding out the bad apples" to how do do we get the best out of the teachers we have got. Personal development, training and support, not evaluations and measurements. A lot of HR practices from the private sector could be easily transplanted into JCPS without much argument (if it isn't already done) - 360 peer/parent/student feedback, confidential assistance hotlines, counselling and support services, yearly development plan setting and review, free personal development training courses. After these practices have been bedded in for a period of time - we can then have the debate on teacher evaluation - there'd be a much better framework for the conversation.

If you look at the stats in the general population - 10% have substance abuse issues, 4%+ have serious mental health issues, 1%+ have criminal records. It points to a number much bigger than the number of teachers fired. But the first course of action for any teacher should be to offer help and support.

Thoughtful article on TEACH NJ:
http://chpp.kean.edu/white-paper/new-jersey-teacher-tenure-reform

Oh and to the question that you asked Monroe - 5-15% at a guess. Intractably bad - much lower - 1-2%.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 11:31

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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ianmac and trambone object to my thoughts that we should reward great teachers with higher salaries, and get rid of teachers that underperform and don't deliver a great education to our children.

I'm for the kids. They, seemingly, are for defending lousy teachers and keeping the status quo that leads to, at least in JC, 1/3 of children not graduating-despite the fact that JC spends much more per student than the state average.

(And, as a NJ taxpayer, I've got skin in the game). Ianmac lives in Brooklyn-what's your tie to NJ/JC education? Are you a teacher who knee jerk reacts to any proposal to remove lousy teachers and disturb the status quo?

Posted on: 2014/10/3 10:58

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

trambone wrote:

How many bad teachers are there really? By your posts I assume you think at least 90% of the teachers in schools are bad. How do you define a bad teacher? A good teacher?

Monroe encountered 100% teacher failure rate. Not a single one of them could educate him.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 5:32

trambone

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
Until teachers -- and any public sector employee -- has a competitive salary with the best and brightest private sector employees, the result is always going to mediocre people making up the majority of positions.

Teaching was once one of the few jobs society allowed women to have. Along with nursing, teaching attracted the best and the brightest women. When society began allowing women to become lawyers and bankers and financiers and plenty of other high paying professions, the best and the brightest followed the best and the brightest men.

There is no reason to compare "average" salaries of college graduates, or even masters+ graduates. You don't want average people responsible for teaching students, and you certainly aren't going to get above average results. There are plenty of jobs that average and below average people are probably suited for, like Human Resources.

You want the best scientists teaching science? Don't compare average college degree salaries, compare the best paid scientists -- chemists who make perfumes, biologists who make drugs, engineers who build apps. You want better teachers who know math? Its not about being competitive with a secretary. Its about being competitive with a salary who can crunch numbers as an accountant or analyst. You want the best people too teach kids to speak real good and right real good? Yeah, well starting salary at a big law firm is 6 figures.

Yeah, YOU probably make less than a teacher. There is a pretty good chance that YOU are below average. Actually, its basically a 1 in 2 chance that you are below average. If you want just average people teaching kids, then go ahead and compare average salaries (although you should adjust for the fact that teachers are being counted towards those average salaries and will bring up or down the area's average, but I digress). But average people aren't going to produce above average results.

No one here thinks we should not compensate great teachers with more money. But in all your comments, not a word about getting rid of the teachers that prove to be inept after they make tenure, and are sometime earning strong salary/benefit packages post tenure.

Not a word.

After all, isn't it about the kids? What industry in NJ has over 100,000 employees and fires less than a handful for poor performance each year? Because that's what happens in NJ-yes, some teachers are fired for other reasons, but the handful removed for being lousy teachers who impede their student's education is so low as to be statistically insignificant.

But ianmac, shouldn't you be concerned with NYS students rather than NJ/JC students, as you live in Brooklyn? Do you pay taxes to NJ? Have kids here? What's the angle on your interest in NJ education?

How many bad teachers are there really? By your posts I assume you think at least 90% of the teachers in schools are bad. How do you define a bad teacher? A good teacher?

Posted on: 2014/10/3 3:55

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Until teachers -- and any public sector employee -- has a competitive salary with the best and brightest private sector employees, the result is always going to mediocre people making up the majority of positions.

Teaching was once one of the few jobs society allowed women to have. Along with nursing, teaching attracted the best and the brightest women. When society began allowing women to become lawyers and bankers and financiers and plenty of other high paying professions, the best and the brightest followed the best and the brightest men.

There is no reason to compare "average" salaries of college graduates, or even masters+ graduates. You don't want average people responsible for teaching students, and you certainly aren't going to get above average results. There are plenty of jobs that average and below average people are probably suited for, like Human Resources.

You want the best scientists teaching science? Don't compare average college degree salaries, compare the best paid scientists -- chemists who make perfumes, biologists who make drugs, engineers who build apps. You want better teachers who know math? Its not about being competitive with a secretary. Its about being competitive with a salary who can crunch numbers as an accountant or analyst. You want the best people too teach kids to speak real good and right real good? Yeah, well starting salary at a big law firm is 6 figures.

Yeah, YOU probably make less than a teacher. There is a pretty good chance that YOU are below average. Actually, its basically a 1 in 2 chance that you are below average. If you want just average people teaching kids, then go ahead and compare average salaries (although you should adjust for the fact that teachers are being counted towards those average salaries and will bring up or down the area's average, but I digress). But average people aren't going to produce above average results.

No one here thinks we should not compensate great teachers with more money. But in all your comments, not a word about getting rid of the teachers that prove to be inept after they make tenure, and are sometime earning strong salary/benefit packages post tenure.

Not a word.

After all, isn't it about the kids? What industry in NJ has over 100,000 employees and fires less than a handful for poor performance each year? Because that's what happens in NJ-yes, some teachers are fired for other reasons, but the handful removed for being lousy teachers who impede their student's education is so low as to be statistically insignificant.

But ianmac, shouldn't you be concerned with NYS students rather than NJ/JC students, as you live in Brooklyn? Do you pay taxes to NJ? Have kids here? What's the angle on your interest in NJ education?

Posted on: 2014/10/3 2:02

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Another thought. If the state and fed allowed new teachers to pay off their education loans on pre-tax basis - that would be a huge boost to the number of grads wanting to become teachers. It could slash their debt repayments by up to 50%. Nice signing-on bonus.

Posted on: 2014/10/3 1:22

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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ianmac47 wrote:
Until teachers -- and any public sector employee -- has a competitive salary with the best and brightest private sector employees, the result is always going to mediocre people making up the majority of positions.

Teaching was once one of the few jobs society allowed women to have. Along with nursing, teaching attracted the best and the brightest women. When society began allowing women to become lawyers and bankers and financiers and plenty of other high paying professions, the best and the brightest followed the best and the brightest men.

There is no reason to compare "average" salaries of college graduates, or even masters+ graduates. You don't want average people responsible for teaching students, and you certainly aren't going to get above average results. There are plenty of jobs that average and below average people are probably suited for, like Human Resources.

You want the best scientists teaching science? Don't compare average college degree salaries, compare the best paid scientists -- chemists who make perfumes, biologists who make drugs, engineers who build apps. You want better teachers who know math? Its not about being competitive with a secretary. Its about being competitive with a salary who can crunch numbers as an accountant or analyst. You want the best people too teach kids to speak real good and right real good? Yeah, well starting salary at a big law firm is 6 figures.

Yeah, YOU probably make less than a teacher. There is a pretty good chance that YOU are below average. Actually, its basically a 1 in 2 chance that you are below average. If you want just average people teaching kids, then go ahead and compare average salaries (although you should adjust for the fact that teachers are being counted towards those average salaries and will bring up or down the area's average, but I digress). But average people aren't going to produce above average results.

Was that directed to me specifically? If so, wrong on all counts.

And scroll down to my original post. I suggested we should give new teachers a 30-50% hike in starting salary to make it competitive with the top-paying graduate professions. What I don't know is how we go about rewarding the existing set of teachers - a lot of whom are not the best and brightest.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 21:20

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Until teachers -- and any public sector employee -- has a competitive salary with the best and brightest private sector employees, the result is always going to mediocre people making up the majority of positions.

Teaching was once one of the few jobs society allowed women to have. Along with nursing, teaching attracted the best and the brightest women. When society began allowing women to become lawyers and bankers and financiers and plenty of other high paying professions, the best and the brightest followed the best and the brightest men.

There is no reason to compare "average" salaries of college graduates, or even masters+ graduates. You don't want average people responsible for teaching students, and you certainly aren't going to get above average results. There are plenty of jobs that average and below average people are probably suited for, like Human Resources.

You want the best scientists teaching science? Don't compare average college degree salaries, compare the best paid scientists -- chemists who make perfumes, biologists who make drugs, engineers who build apps. You want better teachers who know math? Its not about being competitive with a secretary. Its about being competitive with a salary who can crunch numbers as an accountant or analyst. You want the best people too teach kids to speak real good and right real good? Yeah, well starting salary at a big law firm is 6 figures.

Yeah, YOU probably make less than a teacher. There is a pretty good chance that YOU are below average. Actually, its basically a 1 in 2 chance that you are below average. If you want just average people teaching kids, then go ahead and compare average salaries (although you should adjust for the fact that teachers are being counted towards those average salaries and will bring up or down the area's average, but I digress). But average people aren't going to produce above average results.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 20:58

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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@Pebble - for new hires, looking at graduate job postings gives a pretty reasonable estimate of prevailing market rates. If the question is how do we attract the best and brightest - that's the first comparison we need to look at.

For teacher with x years service it becomes more problematic to compare to the private sector. In the private sector - you pretty much stay at the same salary unless you start adding increased value. You rarely get length of service increases, nor direct increases for adding to your qualifications. In the teaching profession you could be adding exactly the same value whether you're paid $50k or $100k, masters degree or not.

Until we figure a way of rewarding teachers for performance, the only real way we can compare teachers - is to compare with other public sector employees - in different professions - or in different countries. On broad averages, teachers are probably underpaid relative to other countries - I think I saw a number of 20-30% in one OECD/PISA survey. And personally I'd be more than happy to support that kind of increase if it took the US back to the top of the education league globally. At the moment, we're falling and continuing to fall. I'm not sure I'd want to unconditionally reward all current teachers for getting us to where we are at now.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 20:26

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
From the link. Take your quibble up with the website.

Average Masters Degree Salaries
The average salary for masters degree jobs in Jersey City, NJ is $81,000. Average masters degree salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits.

This salary was calculated using the average salary for all jobs with the term "masters degree" anywhere in the job listing.

And you are simply wrong about admin assistants - you probably haven't worked in many private sector offices. The typical admin assistant runs the office on behalf of the manager. Most of the role is about being deputy to the manager.

Where would you get the idea that I don't work in the private sector? That's all I've ever worked in. But, I'm glad you can project!

As for the website, again, it doesn't mention that it is a requirement.

Follow the link to admin assistant job postings. Some postings clearly state a degree as as a requirement.

Some of the admin assistants I know have a combination of business, technical and financial expertise that would put a lot of master's degree holders to shame. Including teachers with 20 years service. I guess the bar is lower in your line of work.

Honest question... Do you believe an honest comparison of wages is one performed between the average salary of those working in an industry and the average salary of jobs that have a specified salary and is listed as available just now via search query that one site put together?

As for administrative assistants... I never stated that they are useless or that they don't need to be smart. However, I know some exceptional ones that have no college degree and I knew one that had one that was useless. Like anything else, I think it is smarts and wares that get you through. However, it is certainly an occupation that does necessitate a college degree. Just as Senior Project Manager or Senior C# Developer doesn't require college degrees. It's great to have them and not having one will certainly mean you'll likely start lower, but it won't prevent you from joining the industry.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 19:26

Dos A Cero

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
From the link. Take your quibble up with the website.

Average Masters Degree Salaries
The average salary for masters degree jobs in Jersey City, NJ is $81,000. Average masters degree salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits.

This salary was calculated using the average salary for all jobs with the term "masters degree" anywhere in the job listing.

And you are simply wrong about admin assistants - you probably haven't worked in many private sector offices. The typical admin assistant runs the office on behalf of the manager. Most of the role is about being deputy to the manager.

Where would you get the idea that I don't work in the private sector? That's all I've ever worked in. But, I'm glad you can project!

As for the website, again, it doesn't mention that it is a requirement.

Follow the link to admin assistant job postings. Some postings clearly state a degree as as a requirement.

Some of the admin assistants I know have a combination of business, technical and financial expertise that would put a lot of master's degree holders to shame. Including teachers with 20 years service. I guess the bar is lower in your line of work.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 18:44

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
From the link. Take your quibble up with the website.

Average Masters Degree Salaries
The average salary for masters degree jobs in Jersey City, NJ is $81,000. Average masters degree salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits.

This salary was calculated using the average salary for all jobs with the term "masters degree" anywhere in the job listing.

And you are simply wrong about admin assistants - you probably haven't worked in many private sector offices. The typical admin assistant runs the office on behalf of the manager. Most of the role is about being deputy to the manager.

Where would you get the idea that I don't work in the private sector? That's all I've ever worked in. But, I'm glad you can project!

As for the website, again, it doesn't mention that it is a requirement.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 18:21

Dos A Cero

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
The salaries range from a little above $50,000 to somewhere around $110,000, for a teacher with 20+ years experience and the most advanced degrees.

The "progression" is very small at the front end. Basically over 10 years a teacher only gets raises of a few thousand dollars. In the 11th or 12th year there is a jump into the 60s. I gather that is something of a point of contention. I also was told by one teacher that while the contract is expired, teachers are stuck on whatever rung they were on (I don't understand why that is so, but that's what I was told), so that is another sore spot.

Funny... you need a masters degree in education in order to break that six digits yet people that demonstrate how much of a moron they are on this message board claim to make far more than that...

http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k ... -jersey-city-nj-jobs.html

$81k is average in JC for jobs needing a masters degree.

Your description is wrong. You aren't searching on jobs needing a masters degree. Your search is on people that have them and how much they make.

It's the same search as before for bachelor's degrees. You had administrative assistants in the list. We both know that is not an occupation which requires a college degree.

My description was fine. Perhaps you meant: You ~~aren't~~ shouldn't be searching on jobs needing a masters degree. Your search is should be on people that have them and how much they make?

In the private sector, a masters is generally irrelevant after 5-10 years service - it's assumed you've got that expertise. And any teacher who can't get a masters in their spare time after 20 years, doesn't deserve to earn $100k+.

And you're wrong on admin assistants - managers need pretty smart ones. Asking for a college degree is perfectly reasonable in the private sector.

No. I meant what I wrote. Your searches were on the average salaries of people with a college degree. It was not on the average salaries of those working in an industry that requires a college degree.

While you can certainly ask for a college degree for an administrative assistant, the likelihood that the person with the job went to college to be an administrative assistant is slim to none. It is also likely that they could hire someone without a college degree and their preference could be for someone with one.

From the link. Take your quibble up with the website.

Average Masters Degree Salaries
The average salary for masters degree jobs in Jersey City, NJ is $81,000. Average masters degree salaries can vary greatly due to company, location, industry, experience and benefits.

This salary was calculated using the average salary for all jobs with the term "masters degree" anywhere in the job listing.

And you are simply wrong about admin assistants - you probably haven't worked in many private sector offices. The typical admin assistant runs the office on behalf of the manager. Most of the role is about being deputy to the manager.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 18:04

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#52

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Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
The salaries range from a little above $50,000 to somewhere around $110,000, for a teacher with 20+ years experience and the most advanced degrees.

The "progression" is very small at the front end. Basically over 10 years a teacher only gets raises of a few thousand dollars. In the 11th or 12th year there is a jump into the 60s. I gather that is something of a point of contention. I also was told by one teacher that while the contract is expired, teachers are stuck on whatever rung they were on (I don't understand why that is so, but that's what I was told), so that is another sore spot.

Funny... you need a masters degree in education in order to break that six digits yet people that demonstrate how much of a moron they are on this message board claim to make far more than that...

http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k ... -jersey-city-nj-jobs.html

$81k is average in JC for jobs needing a masters degree.

Your description is wrong. You aren't searching on jobs needing a masters degree. Your search is on people that have them and how much they make.

It's the same search as before for bachelor's degrees. You had administrative assistants in the list. We both know that is not an occupation which requires a college degree.

My description was fine. Perhaps you meant: You ~~aren't~~ shouldn't be searching on jobs needing a masters degree. Your search is should be on people that have them and how much they make?

In the private sector, a masters is generally irrelevant after 5-10 years service - it's assumed you've got that expertise. And any teacher who can't get a masters in their spare time after 20 years, doesn't deserve to earn $100k+.

And you're wrong on admin assistants - managers need pretty smart ones. Asking for a college degree is perfectly reasonable in the private sector.

No. I meant what I wrote. Your searches were on the average salaries of people with a college degree. It was not on the average salaries of those working in an industry that requires a college degree.

While you can certainly ask for a college degree for an administrative assistant, the likelihood that the person with the job went to college to be an administrative assistant is slim to none. It is also likely that they could hire someone without a college degree and their preference could be for someone with one.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 17:52

Dos A Cero

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#51

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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
The salaries range from a little above $50,000 to somewhere around $110,000, for a teacher with 20+ years experience and the most advanced degrees.

The "progression" is very small at the front end. Basically over 10 years a teacher only gets raises of a few thousand dollars. In the 11th or 12th year there is a jump into the 60s. I gather that is something of a point of contention. I also was told by one teacher that while the contract is expired, teachers are stuck on whatever rung they were on (I don't understand why that is so, but that's what I was told), so that is another sore spot.

Funny... you need a masters degree in education in order to break that six digits yet people that demonstrate how much of a moron they are on this message board claim to make far more than that...

http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k ... -jersey-city-nj-jobs.html

$81k is average in JC for jobs needing a masters degree.

Your description is wrong. You aren't searching on jobs needing a masters degree. Your search is on people that have them and how much they make.

It's the same search as before for bachelor's degrees. You had administrative assistants in the list. We both know that is not an occupation which requires a college degree.

My description was fine. Perhaps you meant: You ~~aren't~~ shouldn't be searching on jobs needing a masters degree. Your search is should be on people that have them and how much they make?

In the private sector, a masters is generally irrelevant after 5-10 years service - it's assumed you've got that expertise. And any teacher who can't get a masters in their spare time after 20 years, doesn't deserve to earn $100k+.

And you're wrong on admin assistants - managers need pretty smart ones. Asking for a college degree is perfectly reasonable in the private sector.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 17:35

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#50

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Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
The salaries range from a little above $50,000 to somewhere around $110,000, for a teacher with 20+ years experience and the most advanced degrees.

The "progression" is very small at the front end. Basically over 10 years a teacher only gets raises of a few thousand dollars. In the 11th or 12th year there is a jump into the 60s. I gather that is something of a point of contention. I also was told by one teacher that while the contract is expired, teachers are stuck on whatever rung they were on (I don't understand why that is so, but that's what I was told), so that is another sore spot.

Funny... you need a masters degree in education in order to break that six digits yet people that demonstrate how much of a moron they are on this message board claim to make far more than that...

http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k ... -jersey-city-nj-jobs.html

$81k is average in JC for jobs needing a masters degree.

Your description is wrong. You aren't searching on jobs needing a masters degree. Your search is on people that have them and how much they make.

It's the same search as before for bachelor's degrees. You had administrative assistants in the list. We both know that is not an occupation which requires a college degree.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 17:17

Dos A Cero

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#49

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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

JPhurst wrote:
The salaries range from a little above $50,000 to somewhere around $110,000, for a teacher with 20+ years experience and the most advanced degrees.

The "progression" is very small at the front end. Basically over 10 years a teacher only gets raises of a few thousand dollars. In the 11th or 12th year there is a jump into the 60s. I gather that is something of a point of contention. I also was told by one teacher that while the contract is expired, teachers are stuck on whatever rung they were on (I don't understand why that is so, but that's what I was told), so that is another sore spot.

Funny... you need a masters degree in education in order to break that six digits yet people that demonstrate how much of a moron they are on this message board claim to make far more than that...

http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k ... -jersey-city-nj-jobs.html

$81k is average in JC for jobs needing a masters degree.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 17:11

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#48

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Pebble, I don't know a company (unless they were dealing with unionized workers like teachers) that would not fire someone for missing 10% of their workdays over a year, LET ALONE THIRTY SEVEN YEARS! 37 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And teachers have summers and holidays off!

Since there is no evidence of the cause for absenteeism, you are merely projecting that this person was never absent for a valid reason. There is nothing to support that hypothesis.

In the "real world" missing 10% would be the equivalent of being out of work for 5 weeks over the course of a year. Considering people miss that much and more every year without repercussion has me continuing to state that you are full of it when you claim that pink slips would be handed out.

Nonsense. Five weeks a year absent for 37 straight years? In the private sector for employees without union 'protection'? If it was a medical issue then they'd be on disability, at best.

If you think I'm full of it for saying that no business would tolerate 37 freaking years of 10% absenteeism, for any reason, you're nuts.

Can I assume your profession is education? You sure aren't a business owner, lol.

I don?t work in education. That was established quite a long time ago.

It doesn?t state in the article that she was absent 10% a year for 37 straight years. It says she was absent 10% over that period of time.

Information that we know nothing about;
1. Does this woman have children? If so, how many and when they were born. Maternity leave allows up to 12 weeks per year, per child. You like stating that teachers work 9 months of the year, well, 12 weeks would be 33% of that. Thus, one child born in February would be the equivalent of 10% time missed over 3 years.

2. How many sick days were taken?

3. How many of those days were vacation days?

4. Where did this person live?

5. Did this person have a drug problem and sought help?

I?ve stated outright that I have no problem with the termination of this woman. I just find it interesting that people seem to believe that because one out of 20 teachers might be bad that this means the system is screwed up. I want to see evidence that there are industries where the employee base is flawless.

If you remove the NJEA and remove all teachers, hiring new entirely new ones, you can guarantee that there will be bad teachers. You can guarantee further that they may be retained due to a variety of issues; not wanting to pay unemployment, person is friends with the boss, etc.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 17:11

Dos A Cero

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#47

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Monroe wrote:
....

In one school, only one teacher in an elementary school had gotten an 'unsatisfactory' rating-IN TWENTY YEARS!

http://njmonthly.com/articles/towns_a ... new-jerseys-teachers.html

Most companies in the private sector rank the performance of employees, and the bottom 10% or so get marked as unsatisfactory.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 16:54

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#46

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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Pebble, I don't know a company (unless they were dealing with unionized workers like teachers) that would not fire someone for missing 10% of their workdays over a year, LET ALONE THIRTY SEVEN YEARS! 37 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And teachers have summers and holidays off!

Since there is no evidence of the cause for absenteeism, you are merely projecting that this person was never absent for a valid reason. There is nothing to support that hypothesis.

In the "real world" missing 10% would be the equivalent of being out of work for 5 weeks over the course of a year. Considering people miss that much and more every year without repercussion has me continuing to state that you are full of it when you claim that pink slips would be handed out.

Nonsense. Five weeks a year absent for 37 straight years? In the private sector for employees without union 'protection'? If it was a medical issue then they'd be on disability, at best.

If you think I'm full of it for saying that no business would tolerate 37 freaking years of 10% absenteeism, for any reason, you're nuts.

Can I assume your profession is education? You sure aren't a business owner, lol.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 16:51

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#45

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Pebble, I don't know a company (unless they were dealing with unionized workers like teachers) that would not fire someone for missing 10% of their workdays over a year, LET ALONE THIRTY SEVEN YEARS! 37 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And teachers have summers and holidays off!

Since there is no evidence of the cause for absenteeism, you are merely projecting that this person was never absent for a valid reason. There is nothing to support that hypothesis.

In the "real world" missing 10% would be the equivalent of being out of work for 5 weeks over the course of a year. Considering people miss that much and more every year without repercussion has me continuing to state that you are full of it when you claim that pink slips would be handed out.

Posted on: 2014/10/2 16:36

Dos A Cero

Re: Jersey City teachers union seeks 19% pay hike over 3 years, sources say

#44

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Pebble, I don't know a company (unless they were dealing with unionized workers like teachers) that would not fire someone for missing 10% of their workdays over a year, LET ALONE THIRTY SEVEN YEARS! 37 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And teachers have summers and holidays off!

Posted on: 2014/10/2 16:27