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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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jcdd wrote:
Fairway or Wegman's would be the best choice. Forget Whole Foods.


You'll have rainbow unicorns swimming across the Hudson ferrying JC commuters for free before that will happen.

Just exactly where is Wegman's going to drop a 140,000 square foot store with adequate parking in downtown? Do you have any idea of how many tractor trailers would be driving downtown streets to fill a store that size?

Posted on: 2014/10/1 15:44
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Fairway or Wegman's would be the best choice. Forget Whole Foods.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 15:24
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The one type of customer I did not see was a poor person. This is not surprising. Eating healthy is expensive, and you?ll never find a Whole Foods in a poor neighborhood. Statistics show a heavy correlation between obesity and poverty, and a trip to Whole Foods bore this out. I fear that we are dividing into two Americas, not just between the haves and have-nots, but between the healthy and the unhealthy, with a lot of the division being the same. I feared that I was, by shopping here, inadvertently contributing to it.


As much as I can see your point, I feel like the so called "poor" (including myself, I live pay check to pay check barely making rent sometimes) also need access to healthy options. Maybe not a WF - or as I call it, Whole Paycheck - but a Trader Joe's or something other than the Shop Wrong or Pathmark. The Pathmark (on Grand Street) is so overpriced it is almost as expensive as WF. Weirdly enough, the demographic you targeted in your post is the prime customer at this store.

The Shop-Wrong is over crowded and their non boxed food is often poor quality and doesn't last. A&P is far for people that live in Paulus Hook and don't have a car. Same goes for the 77 Hudson store. They are merely ok, super overpriced.

Now, the saving grace in our neighborhood is the Farmer's market which ends in mid December. So from January thru May, there is no access to a decent grocer.

There may not be a demand for a WF but there certainly is a demand for a Trader Joes, a Wegmen's, Stew Leonards or whatever. Something that has a decent butcher, decent seafood and decent organic groceries.



I agree when I first moved dtjc back in the 90's there were bakeries, two fish markets, a few butcher shops, and a place where I could buy fresh tea and coffee beans all along Newark ave. All these places are now half ass restaurants and pizzerias... if they were to bring back the mom and pop shops that would be way better than a big over price supermarket for the posers. However rents are too high to have a cheese shop or a coffee bean place... sigh.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 13:31
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The one type of customer I did not see was a poor person. This is not surprising. Eating healthy is expensive, and you?ll never find a Whole Foods in a poor neighborhood. Statistics show a heavy correlation between obesity and poverty, and a trip to Whole Foods bore this out. I fear that we are dividing into two Americas, not just between the haves and have-nots, but between the healthy and the unhealthy, with a lot of the division being the same. I feared that I was, by shopping here, inadvertently contributing to it.


As much as I can see your point, I feel like the so called "poor" (including myself, I live pay check to pay check barely making rent sometimes) also need access to healthy options. Maybe not a WF - or as I call it, Whole Paycheck - but a Trader Joe's or something other than the Shop Wrong or Pathmark. The Pathmark (on Grand Street) is so overpriced it is almost as expensive as WF. Weirdly enough, the demographic you targeted in your post is the prime customer at this store.

The Shop-Wrong is over crowded and their non boxed food is often poor quality and doesn't last. A&P is far for people that live in Paulus Hook and don't have a car. Same goes for the 77 Hudson store. They are merely ok, super overpriced.

Now, the saving grace in our neighborhood is the Farmer's market which ends in mid December. So from January thru May, there is no access to a decent grocer.

There may not be a demand for a WF but there certainly is a demand for a Trader Joes, a Wegmen's, Stew Leonards or whatever. Something that has a decent butcher, decent seafood and decent organic groceries.


Posted on: 2014/10/1 13:24
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WF in Newark is not scheduled to open until 2016. A lot can happen between now and 2016 to change the minds of the corporate planners.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 13:23
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The interesting thing about this, whenever I am out and about around town I ask people who are NOT part of the JCList community would they want a Wholefoods in JC and the majority say NO... its only here I find such a demand for it. I am not a Wholefood fan at all. I read this and it made me chuckle.

So Lets see, who shops at Wholefoods?



Skinny Bitches: You know them, the ones who consider a salad with no dressing a big meal, the ones who could play hide-and-seek behind a broomstick, the ones that would make Twiggy shout, ?Hey, eat a steak once in a while, willya?? They may be eating healthy food, but they sure look unhealthy.

Gym Rats: You know them, the ones still wearing their Spandex after an hour on the treadmill and now they?re giving themselves a treat ? a few drops of vinaigrette on their salad. I give these women a wide berth, since they look like they could kick my ass without breaking a sweat.

Trophy Wives: You know them, the ones whose blonde hair comes from a bottle and whose breasts come from a surgeon?s hands, the ones who come to the store in short-shorts and four-inch heels.

The one type of customer I did not see was a poor person. This is not surprising. Eating healthy is expensive, and you?ll never find a Whole Foods in a poor neighborhood. Statistics show a heavy correlation between obesity and poverty, and a trip to Whole Foods bore this out. I fear that we are dividing into two Americas, not just between the haves and have-nots, but between the healthy and the unhealthy, with a lot of the division being the same. I feared that I was, by shopping here, inadvertently contributing to it.

I also felt the unmistakable snob appeal. All of this became clearer to me as I reached the shelves with the one product I understood: beer. I?m a bit of a beer snob, usually reaching for the microbrew when I have the chance. But I also don?t turn down a Budweiser or a Miller when I?m out with friends, and I understand that some people buy a six-pack of Bud because they?d rather spend their money on something like, you know, rent.

I saw the beers displayed on the shelf, and I wondered about the decision process to stock Sam Adams and Heineken, but not Bud and Miller. Were they made with better ingredients? Were their workers treated more fairly? Or was it ? and this is where I?m placing my bet ? because they didn?t want to sell any product associated with the hoi polloi?

As I approached the checkout counters ? oh, now I see some African-Americans and Latinos! ? I felt almost as bad for my contribution to the economic segregation of America as I did for the draining of my checking account. (I said almost.)

Good Read!

Posted on: 2014/10/1 13:11
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Let's say WF listens to the silly Change.org petition and opens a store in JC. And it fails. What then, will the people who are complaining offer to defray some of WF's expenses?


The earnings from the store in Newark can offset some of the costs of a failing WF in JC. Lol

Posted on: 2014/10/1 12:43
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

Who cares about the stock price? WF's revenue, gross margin and cash accounts are growing every year. WF is doing better year after year - they know what they are doing. So much butthurt because they didn't pick YOUR city.


did you get all that from watching cramer? WF is in terrible shape as a company, they keep making bad decisions on the new stores - each store is very capital intensive to open. They are also getting out competed and trying to cut price which is crashing their margin. Their yoy growth has slowed significantly. It's all in their quarterly numbers from the past 12 month.

Not sure what planet you are on saying "wf is doing better year after year", time to stop watching cnbc.


Is it possible WF already analyzed this and still decided the numbers don't make sense?

Posted on: 2014/10/1 11:38
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

Who cares about the stock price? WF's revenue, gross margin and cash accounts are growing every year. WF is doing better year after year - they know what they are doing. So much butthurt because they didn't pick YOUR city.


did you get all that from watching cramer? WF is in terrible shape as a company, they keep making bad decisions on the new stores - each store is very capital intensive to open. They are also getting out competed and trying to cut price which is crashing their margin. Their yoy growth has slowed significantly. It's all in their quarterly numbers from the past 12 month.

Not sure what planet you are on saying "wf is doing better year after year", time to stop watching cnbc.


Watching Cramer? Nope, by looking at their actual financial statements.

Revenue, gross margin, net income and cash has been increasing for WF year after year.. No reason to say they are in terrible shape.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 11:20
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Just a little perspective-the new Wegman's opening in East Hanover, NJ will be 140,000 square feet. Most brand new or replacement Shop Rites are 1/2 to 2/3 that size by comparison. And that footprint doesn't reflect the larger parking lots needed for a larger store.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 11:10
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Fuck Whole Foods. I'm hoping we get a Fairway.


This +10000

Posted on: 2014/10/1 10:40
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WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:

Who cares about the stock price? WF's revenue, gross margin and cash accounts are growing every year. WF is doing better year after year - they know what they are doing. So much butthurt because they didn't pick YOUR city.


did you get all that from watching cramer? WF is in terrible shape as a company, they keep making bad decisions on the new stores - each store is very capital intensive to open. They are also getting out competed and trying to cut price which is crashing their margin. Their yoy growth has slowed significantly. It's all in their quarterly numbers from the past 12 month.

Not sure what planet you are on saying "wf is doing better year after year", time to stop watching cnbc.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 7:03
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it's not even the population density, but the demographic - downtown jersey city is full of mid/high income residents who are health/organic focused - the perfect target audience for WF. Not to mention i can count at least 10 highrise rental towers coming in the next 2 years to this area increasing the population density even further.

Yet WF chose to overlock jersey city in favor of suburbs with far less density and more competition. No wonder their stock is down by 30%+ YTD. What a bunch of idiots.


Is JC the "perfect" target for Whole Foods? I'm not so sure. A lot of the DT-JC residents are extremely frugal savers relative to New Yorkers, which is why they live in DT JC rather than NYC in the first place.

That's obviously a generalization, but I think it's particularly true among the two major foreign cultures that have moved into DT JC en masse. They also tend to concentrate their food shopping at grocery stores that specialize in food from their native countries.

I'm not suggesting any negative connotation here--it's GOOD to save. I'm just pointing out what Whole Foods has likely considered as they analyze demographics and neighbors for their business strategy.

I think that analysis will change as more and more of these rental projects are completed, because of growth in the sheer number of potential shoppers.


that's not true, just look at morton williams - it's always busy and their prices are equal or more expensive than wf without the quality - mostly regular supermarket crap and asian packaged food that you can get at flushing at 50% less. I got food poisoned from there and lost count the number of times had to throw out their seafood after getting it home and smell it. That supermarket is overpriced crap that pretend to be high end, and it's still packed with people.

An actual good supermarket like WF or equivalent will do very well.

Downtown has shoprite which is a cluster**** mess catered mostly the people from the ghettos (still don't understand why they come all the way here to shop). Then there is A&P which is considerably better and my goto supermarket but it has nothing special just regular packaged food, their seafood leaves much to be desired. Then you have morton williams that is way overpriced for the quality, i only go when need to pick up something quick.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 6:53
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Do you really think the execs of WF are stupid and don't recognize the obvious market potential in DTJC?


It's possible. Years ago I once had an exchange of emails with an exec at Harbor Freight Tools when I urged them to open a store on 440. I said "you've opened stores out west in towns of 30k but you won't open one here with half a million people within a 15 minute drive?" His response: "but the rents are too high there for our business model". He was completely unable to get his head around the kind of volume the store could do compared to some shitass village in Nebraska. So, yes, WF execs may be capable of making stupid choices.

PS they've since opened stores, including 3 in Saddle Brook, Clifton and Hasbrouck Heights that are 10 minute apart, but not one in Hudson Cty.


I'd imagine that WF business planners have a better idea of how their business would perform in JC than you would. They're doing something right.


It's both amusing and ridiculous that so many random people think they would do a better job managing a large business than the professionals.

Let's say WF listens to the silly Change.org petition and opens a store in JC. And it fails. What then, will the people who are complaining offer to defray some of WF's expenses?

Posted on: 2014/10/1 1:59
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brewster wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Do you really think the execs of WF are stupid and don't recognize the obvious market potential in DTJC?


It's possible. Years ago I once had an exchange of emails with an exec at Harbor Freight Tools when I urged them to open a store on 440. I said "you've opened stores out west in towns of 30k but you won't open one here with half a million people within a 15 minute drive?" His response: "but the rents are too high there for our business model". He was completely unable to get his head around the kind of volume the store could do compared to some shitass village in Nebraska. So, yes, WF execs may be capable of making stupid choices.

PS they've since opened stores, including 3 in Saddle Brook, Clifton and Hasbrouck Heights that are 10 minute apart, but not one in Hudson Cty.


it's not even the population density, but the demographic - downtown jersey city is full of mid/high income residents who are health/organic focused - the perfect target audience for WF. Not to mention i can count at least 10 highrise rental towers coming in the next 2 years to this area increasing the population density even further.

Yet WF chose to overlock jersey city in favor of suburbs with far less density and more competition. No wonder their stock is down by 30%+ YTD. What a bunch of idiots.


Who cares about the stock price? WF's revenue, gross margin and cash accounts are growing every year. WF is doing better year after year - they know what they are doing. So much butthurt because they didn't pick YOUR city.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 1:49
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JCMan8 wrote:
Do you really think the execs of WF are stupid and don't recognize the obvious market potential in DTJC?


It's possible. Years ago I once had an exchange of emails with an exec at Harbor Freight Tools when I urged them to open a store on 440. I said "you've opened stores out west in towns of 30k but you won't open one here with half a million people within a 15 minute drive?" His response: "but the rents are too high there for our business model". He was completely unable to get his head around the kind of volume the store could do compared to some shitass village in Nebraska. So, yes, WF execs may be capable of making stupid choices.

PS they've since opened stores, including 3 in Saddle Brook, Clifton and Hasbrouck Heights that are 10 minute apart, but not one in Hudson Cty.


I'd imagine that WF business planners have a better idea of how their business would perform in JC than you would. They're doing something right.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 1:47
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Fuck Whole Foods. I'm hoping we get a Fairway.


I basically agree, WF is just a symbol of the big middle finger the large and affluent DTJC/Hoboken market gets from the WF/Fairway/TJ's segment. Anyplace else 100k+ people with this kind of money would get served. I could point out on a map dozens of places with TJ's with not nearly the wealth or numbers.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 1:39
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Not big enough, and not enough affluent shoppers.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 1:28
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There isn't a footprint big enough for a Wegman's. Have you ever been to one? Giant parking lots that support immense stores. They draw from all the towns that surround them.

The soccer moms drive up in their giant SUV's and load up. The demographic isn't here to support it.


Bulldoze Pathmark and/or Shop-wrong and voila! Instant space.


Posted on: 2014/10/1 1:22
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Fuck Whole Foods. I'm hoping we get a Fairway.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 0:55
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There isn't a footprint big enough for a Wegman's. Have you ever been to one? Giant parking lots that support immense stores. They draw from all the towns that surround them.

The soccer moms drive up in their giant SUV's and load up. The demographic isn't here to support it.

Posted on: 2014/10/1 0:51

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jcguy05 wrote:
it's not even the population density, but the demographic - downtown jersey city is full of mid/high income residents who are health/organic focused - the perfect target audience for WF. Not to mention i can count at least 10 highrise rental towers coming in the next 2 years to this area increasing the population density even further.

Yet WF chose to overlock jersey city in favor of suburbs with far less density and more competition. No wonder their stock is down by 30%+ YTD. What a bunch of idiots.


Is JC the "perfect" target for Whole Foods? I'm not so sure. A lot of the DT-JC residents are extremely frugal savers relative to New Yorkers, which is why they live in DT JC rather than NYC in the first place.

That's obviously a generalization, but I think it's particularly true among the two major foreign cultures that have moved into DT JC en masse. They also tend to concentrate their food shopping at grocery stores that specialize in food from their native countries.

I'm not suggesting any negative connotation here--it's GOOD to save. I'm just pointing out what Whole Foods has likely considered as they analyze demographics and neighbors for their business strategy.

I think that analysis will change as more and more of these rental projects are completed, because of growth in the sheer number of potential shoppers.


I have noticed lots of people on the lightrail with Whole Foods shopping bags believe it or not these are mostly GV, BL and Bayonne residents why would they need one in Jersey City when you can go one stop on the PATH.. or pick up groceries b4 getting on the PATH


They are also taking the ferry because of its proximity to the store. I see it sometimes, but not a lot.

Posted on: 2014/9/30 23:23
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The people of Newark and its surrounding area deserve access to quality groceries as equally as everyone else does.

You're preching to the wrong choir pal, move back to Newark. They may be deserving but we should look out for our own first. If we don't who will.

Posted on: 2014/9/30 23:17
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jcguy05 wrote:
it's not even the population density, but the demographic - downtown jersey city is full of mid/high income residents who are health/organic focused - the perfect target audience for WF. Not to mention i can count at least 10 highrise rental towers coming in the next 2 years to this area increasing the population density even further.

Yet WF chose to overlock jersey city in favor of suburbs with far less density and more competition. No wonder their stock is down by 30%+ YTD. What a bunch of idiots.


Is JC the "perfect" target for Whole Foods? I'm not so sure. A lot of the DT-JC residents are extremely frugal savers relative to New Yorkers, which is why they live in DT JC rather than NYC in the first place.

That's obviously a generalization, but I think it's particularly true among the two major foreign cultures that have moved into DT JC en masse. They also tend to concentrate their food shopping at grocery stores that specialize in food from their native countries.

I'm not suggesting any negative connotation here--it's GOOD to save. I'm just pointing out what Whole Foods has likely considered as they analyze demographics and neighbors for their business strategy.

I think that analysis will change as more and more of these rental projects are completed, because of growth in the sheer number of potential shoppers.


I have noticed lots of people on the lightrail with Whole Foods shopping bags believe it or not these are mostly GV, BL and Bayonne residents why would they need one in Jersey City when you can go one stop on the PATH.. or pick up groceries b4 getting on the PATH

Posted on: 2014/9/30 22:48
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jcguy05 wrote:
it's not even the population density, but the demographic - downtown jersey city is full of mid/high income residents who are health/organic focused - the perfect target audience for WF. Not to mention i can count at least 10 highrise rental towers coming in the next 2 years to this area increasing the population density even further.

Yet WF chose to overlock jersey city in favor of suburbs with far less density and more competition. No wonder their stock is down by 30%+ YTD. What a bunch of idiots.


Is JC the "perfect" target for Whole Foods? I'm not so sure. A lot of the DT-JC residents are extremely frugal savers relative to New Yorkers, which is why they live in DT JC rather than NYC in the first place.

That's obviously a generalization, but I think it's particularly true among the two major foreign cultures that have moved into DT JC en masse. They also tend to concentrate their food shopping at grocery stores that specialize in food from their native countries.

I'm not suggesting any negative connotation here--it's GOOD to save. I'm just pointing out what Whole Foods has likely considered as they analyze demographics and neighbors for their business strategy.

I think that analysis will change as more and more of these rental projects are completed, because of growth in the sheer number of potential shoppers.

Posted on: 2014/9/30 22:41
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PS they've since opened stores, including 3 in Saddle Brook, Clifton and Hasbrouck Heights that are 10 minute apart, but not one in Hudson Cty.


Actually, there is one on Rt. 1&9 at 88th St. Just barely Hudson County up there.

Posted on: 2014/9/30 22:28
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brewster wrote:
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JCMan8 wrote:
Do you really think the execs of WF are stupid and don't recognize the obvious market potential in DTJC?


It's possible. Years ago I once had an exchange of emails with an exec at Harbor Freight Tools when I urged them to open a store on 440. I said "you've opened stores out west in towns of 30k but you won't open one here with half a million people within a 15 minute drive?" His response: "but the rents are too high there for our business model". He was completely unable to get his head around the kind of volume the store could do compared to some shitass village in Nebraska. So, yes, WF execs may be capable of making stupid choices.

PS they've since opened stores, including 3 in Saddle Brook, Clifton and Hasbrouck Heights that are 10 minute apart, but not one in Hudson Cty.


it's not even the population density, but the demographic - downtown jersey city is full of mid/high income residents who are health/organic focused - the perfect target audience for WF. Not to mention i can count at least 10 highrise rental towers coming in the next 2 years to this area increasing the population density even further.

Yet WF chose to overlock jersey city in favor of suburbs with far less density and more competition. No wonder their stock is down by 30%+ YTD. What a bunch of idiots.

Posted on: 2014/9/30 21:08
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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JCMan8 wrote:
Do you really think the execs of WF are stupid and don't recognize the obvious market potential in DTJC?


It's possible. Years ago I once had an exchange of emails with an exec at Harbor Freight Tools when I urged them to open a store on 440. I said "you've opened stores out west in towns of 30k but you won't open one here with half a million people within a 15 minute drive?" His response: "but the rents are too high there for our business model". He was completely unable to get his head around the kind of volume the store could do compared to some shitass village in Nebraska. So, yes, WF execs may be capable of making stupid choices.

PS they've since opened stores, including 3 in Saddle Brook, Clifton and Hasbrouck Heights that are 10 minute apart, but not one in Hudson Cty.

Posted on: 2014/9/30 20:33

Edited by brewster on 2014/9/30 20:48:47
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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guys, less qq more pew pew. click that petition and post on their location suggestion link.

https://www.change.org/p/liz-burkhart- ... ey-city-for-our-residents

http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/forum ... 36-4fab-9cec-ae561906a267

Posted on: 2014/9/30 20:30
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Re: Whole Foods in JC?
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tommyc_37 wrote:
And the average HHI in Manhattan is $66k, and average HHI in Brooklyn is $46k.

I don't care if what we get is a Whole Foods. It could be a Trader Joe's, Wegmans, Fairway, whatever ... but a proper market, in a good walkable location, is absolutely necessary in modern day Downtown Jersey City.


Whatever the HHI maybe in JC, it's a fact that most parts of Manhattan and BK look "prettier" than JC. If you see the areas that WF is in, are definitely the "prettier" areas where there are less grungy looking stores and more "trendy" stores. Unfortunately, we lack that in our city (and area that's pretty and is close to transit and is close to some sort of parking facility). Our book has been judged by it's cover!


Do you really think the execs of WF are stupid and don't recognize the obvious market potential in DTJC? They simply took a cursory look around, saw crappy parts of JC, and said no?

I'd bet a lot of money that they are perfectly aware of how much better the DTJC market is than a dump like Newark. Obviously something else is keeping them out (or caused the Newark choice) and this is almost certainly something political.

Maybe Booker gave them free land, maybe JC is too hostile, who knows. But it's definitely political and not that they "judged JC by its cover."

Posted on: 2014/9/30 20:05
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