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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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I am truly enjoying seeing the crazy lady try and explain how you can simply shove more ball bearings down a pipe and thus, you'd have better running ball bearings because they aren't stopping at every section along the pipe!


Posted on: 2014/8/9 1:58
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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PATH can't run more trains because there is one track and it is at capacity.

It's not half full vs half empty it is basic, simple, grade school math. At some point you'll figure it out and feel a bit silly for even discussing it. There is one train line, one destination and no ability to run more trains. You could add 150 new stations and it would not help the crowding because you are not adding capacity, you are adding stops.

I'm sure you'll try to explain again why 1+1 does not equal two, but you will still be mistaken. I won't respond to that, it will not be because you have a good point it will be because I can feel myself getting dumber while having this discussion.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 1:39
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Quote:

moobycow wrote:


If one train at Grove is less crowded it means the next is even more crowded because: math. The same thing I said about NYC applies here. The same amount of trains through Grove, the same amount of people traveling in that direction means the same amount of crowding. It doesn't matter if you split where they load if they are all going to the same place.



I want to go back and address your comment more directly. The riders at Mana Arts, 25 Senate, Canco and Brunswick will probably take the train at Marion which will lessen the passenger load at Journal Square. If PATH makes an investment in more trains and run them more frequently, riders at Grove Street will not have the onslaught of the Journal Square which consists of Bayonne and the rest of Jersey City (Lafayette, Greenville, etc.). Likewise Pavonia/Newport riders will not have to deal with Grove riders. I guess I see the glass half full while you see the glass half empty. This is doable.

Posted on: 2014/8/9 0:43
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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The Harrison station is a completely different animal. We're talking platform a few feet above grade like on Broad Channel in Queens. No frills. Platform and a sign. PA'S Samson was the force behind Harrison station and the contract was steered to his friend. $256 mil totally inflated. The watchdogs are out & the PA knows it...No more Calatravasaurus stuff. In fact public opinion is rising against this skeletal monstrosity. The PA is on high alert that the feds are watching them because of the Christie/Samson fandango.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 23:55
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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If one train at Grove is less crowded it means the next is even more crowded because: math. The same thing I said about NYC applies here. The same amount of trains through Grove, the same amount of people traveling in that direction means the same amount of crowding. It doesn't matter if you split where they load if they are all going to the same place.


Posted on: 2014/8/8 23:25
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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If the Marion station weren't contingent upon having this ridiculous hop-skip scheme, I'd say let's take a serious look at it.

Upside: big plus for Mana, Canco, other property owners/developers in that neighborhood - not a bad thing at all. Big plus for homeowners in that area... although some renters would be priced out of the neighborhood.

Downside:
1) a minute or two longer ride on the Newark - WTC line - so the trains can slow down, stop, and speed up again. Not a big deal, really.
2) the cost of building the station, and upkeep. Yvonne thinks these costs would be trivial. Revamping the Harrison station was budgeted at $256 million. Building a new station from scratch... gotta be quite a bit more than that. Perhaps double - or more? I'd love to get an opinion from someone with expertise in this area.

Does Mana have the political muscle to foist those costs onto PA's other customers? (bridge & tunnel toll payers, the airports)
Or does the system itself absorb the cost? Meaning higher fares, or less frequent service, or both.

If you compare this proposal to the plan to extend PATH to Newark Airport, you should see what I'm talking about. If PA can build that extension, it would be a great selling point for their real estate holdings in lower Manhattan. They'd be willing to absorb those costs in other parts of their budget to make it happen.

If PA had lots of real estate holdings in Marion, this would be a no brainer. If that's not the case, Mana et al will probably have to grease PA the the max $$$ to make it happen, and the other users of the PATH system would end up picking up the tab.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 23:02
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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It means people at Grove can at least get on a train. Granted the PATH needs to make an investment in acquiring more trains. In Fulop's letter on development he mention most of the 17,000 future units are not on line yet. I believe he mention 1,800 are in progress. PATH and the city must address this. This is my solution. Personally, the PATH is so crowded, it is at the point I do not want to take the train. Awhile back a friend told me she got on the train at Grove but got off at Christopher, she couldn't breathe. She just sat on the platform at Christopher because she was too weak from the lack of air. She nearly fainted on the train.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 22:38
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
You just don't stop at that station, the next train will. By the way, many times I have seen trains from Harrison arrive in Journal Square but do not stop. They whistle on the platform letting riders know they will not stop. For some reason, something that is simple becomes complicated on jclist.


It's only complicated to you as you cannot seem to grasp an elementary concept. Your plan does not add any overall frequency to the schedule (the same amount of trains per hour arrive in NYC) therefore it is simply impossible that it adds capacity.


Posted on: 2014/8/8 21:55
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
It will work but again you make it complicated. The train from Marion goes to Journal Square but does not stop as some work trains do not stop. They are on the trains but do not stop, this train does directly to Grove. The next from Harrison do not stop at Marion but goes to Journal Square but does not stop at Grove, it continues on to Pavonia/Newport. Again, you make things complicated. The idea is to allow riders to enter the train because it becomes crowded from Newark, Harrison, Bayonne and the rest of Jersey City. I have seen buses in NYC not stop at regular stops, they are called express buses. NYC does not create extra roads for the express buses. It does not stop on certain blocks. This is the same.


If the buses had to come back the same way they went in then there would be a major traffic jam. That's the rub for the PATH trains plain and simple.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 21:44
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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It will work but again you make it complicated. The train from Marion goes to Journal Square but does not stop as some work trains do not stop. They are on the trains but do not stop, this train does directly to Grove. The next from Harrison do not stop at Marion but goes to Journal Square but does not stop at Grove, it continues on to Pavonia/Newport. Again, you make things complicated. The idea is to allow riders to enter the train because it becomes crowded from Newark, Harrison, Bayonne and the rest of Jersey City. I have seen buses in NYC not stop at regular stops, they are called express buses. NYC does not create extra roads for the express buses. It does not stop on certain blocks. This is the same.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 21:21
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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The problem, as mentioned many times before, is that the PATH trains into 33rd Street are not on a loop. What goes in must come out on the same line which causes other trains to have to wait while the station is cleared. If it were a loop it would be much easier to add trains but for now they would only just pile up and creak along in the tunnels.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 21:06
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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You just don't stop at that station, the next train will. By the way, many times I have seen trains from Harrison arrive in Journal Square but do not stop. They whistle on the platform letting riders know they will not stop. For some reason, something that is simple becomes complicated on jclist.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 20:39
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Quote:

Yvonne wrote:
So if someone disagrees with you 29, you become a bully. This is done in NYC all the time, stations are bypass including bus routes.


Yes in NY they have multiple tracks so it makes sense. Because you can run more trains by skipping stops when you have the ability to pass a slower/stopped train. You can't do that on a single line.

You can't disagree with math.

Unless your additional stop is going to reduce overall traffic going to NYC the same amount of people wind up in NY, they just have a new station to start at.

Same amount of people. Same amount of trains = same amount of people / train.

This is basic stuff, it is no wonder people are getting frustrated trying to explain it.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 20:29
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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So if someone disagrees with you 29, you become a bully. This is done in NYC all the time, stations are bypass including bus routes.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 19:20
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
That is not true, you would be carrying passengers from Harrison and Newark, but the not the passengers from Bayonne and the rest of Jersey City who uses the Journal Square station. Just wait unit the 3 monster buildings, the KRE development gets on line in 2016. How do you think downtown riders are able to get on the train? Yes, there will be some additional riders from Marion but nothing compared to Journal Square. It is the reason I suggested the Journal Square train skipped Grove and go to Pavonia/Newport.


Are you brain dead? The math has been laid out for you several times. Your bonkers opinion does not undo concrete math.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 19:18
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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That is not true, you would be carrying passengers from Harrison and Newark, but the not the passengers from Bayonne and the rest of Jersey City who uses the Journal Square station. Just wait unit the 3 monster buildings, the KRE development gets on line in 2016. How do you think downtown riders are able to get on the train? Yes, there will be some additional riders from Marion but nothing compared to Journal Square. It is the reason I suggested the Journal Square train skipped Grove and go to Pavonia/Newport.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 18:34
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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The PA is an extremely corrupt agency. But I am for the adding of more stations in underdeveloped areas. It will just bring more yuppies and ratables which is a good thing.

Skipping stations though is stupid.

Re: EWR, it will save JC residents the NJT ticket and hassle. Wouldn't be my first priority either, but you'll probably see more tourists spending time in JC as a result.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 18:33
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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ianmac47 wrote:
Remember the 9 train? That was skip-stop along the 1 that was discontinued when they realized how retarded an idea it is for a train on a single track to skip stations. Buses can skip stations because they are not confined to a track. Maybe you can get NJTransit to install a Marion bus station. The Port Authority had no interest in building a station there when Healy suggested it four years ago. They certainly don't have more interest in the idea now.


This. You can't really work a skip stop solution on a single track. You would be carrying the same number of people on the same number of trains to the same destination over the same period of time. Simple math says the trains are just as crowded.


Posted on: 2014/8/8 16:49
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
The Port Authoritys' hope for its future in a post Samson world lies with the cooperation of the cities in which it operates.


And why would they choose to do that?

Technically they don't have to cooperate with EITHER city it operates in.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 16:06
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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The Port Authoritys' hope for its future in a post Samson world lies with the cooperation of the cities in which it operates. Though too early to pinpoint there are signs the PA is back-pedaling on some key issues that will dramatically alter the landscape.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 15:54
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Remember the 9 train? That was skip-stop along the 1 that was discontinued when they realized how retarded an idea it is for a train on a single track to skip stations. Buses can skip stations because they are not confined to a track. Maybe you can get NJTransit to install a Marion bus station. The Port Authority had no interest in building a station there when Healy suggested it four years ago. They certainly don't have more interest in the idea now.

Posted on: 2014/8/8 15:24
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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I've seen the train to NYC, PACKED leaving JoSq before 7am on a recent saturday. A few were left standing at Grove and Pavonia. If it starts in Marion I will consider walking down there just to get in.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 21:56
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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NYC buses do the alternate "skip-hop" routine daily and it works splendidly. The notion that one would not want the MANA crowd to see the non-downtown JC people is absurd. New Yorkers see a broad range of passengers on a daily basis. There is nothing unique about our population except that we are more now than before. All the majhor planning studies done by outside groups and agencies in the last few decades have affirmed the need for advanced commuter mechanisms. In the 60's Journal Square, the present PATH building site, was to be the home of the World Trade Center rather than Manhattan. Our perspective would have certainly been altered if it was built here.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 21:45
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Mana pushing for it is not a quiet rumor - they're really pushing hard for it, and I bet they're pushing for the "skip over JSQ" solution so the Manhattanites don't have to see non-downtown JC.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 21:08
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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I don't agree, it is a capacity problem, just wait for winter coats and school children/young adult returning to school in NYC.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 20:12
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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For all the talk about expanding capacity and adding new stops, it seems like the best solution is just to run trains more often. PATH is crowded at rush hour, yes, but my biggest gripes are not at rush hour but at random off-peak times when you wait 20 minutes for a train and there are 5 billion people trying to get on with you.

Or, for example, just not running the WTC train on weekends anymore.

I just don't think it's a capacity problem, I think it's a service problem.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 20:07
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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The naysayers on this post must cringe that there are intelligent people seeking solutions to the PATH commute. Mana has suggested a Marion stop and scores of residents endorse the stop. If one is familiar with the area you could see there is adequate space for an outdoor platform, no frills, on either side. PATH will not be the primary caregiver here but if our elected officials and developers come forward united then perhaps PATH will respond affirmatively. In the meantime it is incumbent upon we, the people, to move forward with bold, new ideas paving the way for a better Jersey City and a brighter tomorrow.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 19:55
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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PA cops? worse than NYPD.

Quote:

JCbiscuit wrote:
Quote:

CatDog wrote:
Interesting.
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Subway_FAQ:_Photo_Permit_Information

Of all the freaking subway lines, PATH is the only one in this country prohibiting photos. Ridiculous.


I was on the PATH a few years ago, and one of the windows blew out en route, the edge striking a tourist standing near the door. (this was one of the old cars.)

when we pulled into Newport, the police sauntered over as the man proceeded to take photos of the windowless door as evidence of what came thisclose to killing him.

they, being reasonable PA cops, threatened to arrest the tourist.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 17:58
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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CatDog wrote:
Interesting.
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Subway_FAQ:_Photo_Permit_Information

Of all the freaking subway lines, PATH is the only one in this country prohibiting photos. Ridiculous.


I was on the PATH a few years ago, and one of the windows blew out en route, the edge striking a tourist standing near the door. (this was one of the old cars.)

when we pulled into Newport, the police sauntered over as the man proceeded to take photos of the windowless door as evidence of what came thisclose to killing him.

they, being reasonable PA cops, threatened to arrest the tourist.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 17:47
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Interesting.
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Subway_FAQ:_Photo_Permit_Information

Of all the freaking subway lines, PATH is the only one in this country prohibiting photos. Ridiculous.

Posted on: 2014/8/7 17:23
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