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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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The PATH tunnels were built before the Amtrak tunnels. How long do you think they have left?

Posted on: 2014/8/6 16:00
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Harrison and Grove Street are the only two stations that need longer platforms to add two cars to the NWK-WTC line. Harrison's platform extension is under construction. Grove Street's renovation will be next, and is already in the long term capital plan. Its part of the 2019 - 2023 portion of the plan and will increase train length from 8 to 10 cars, representing a 25% increase in capacity on that line. Here is the capital plan through 2023. http://www.panynj.gov/corporate-infor ... 4-public-capital-plan.pdf

The PATH lines from Hoboken were expected to have a lower demand by 2017 or 2018 when the ARC tunnel opened and half the trains that terminate there were rerouted through the new tunnels. Now that the ARC tunnel has been cancelled, the NJTransit trains will continue to terminate at Hoboken, meaning any hope of running additional trains from JSQ is not going to happen on the 33rd Street line.

But it could get worse. The existing tunnels used by NJTransit and owned by Amtrak have less than 20 years of life left, and it takes at least 9 years to build a replacement tunnel, so pretty soon those trains that end up in Penn Station will probably have passengers getting on in Newark or Hoboken too.
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2014 ... 0_years_to_live_tops.html

But yeah, definitely should piss away money adding another station 100 yards from Journal Square!

Posted on: 2014/8/6 15:36
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Quote:

JaeTea wrote:
Honestly the Port Authority is too busy sending out cease and desist letters to plate and coffee cup printers to give a shit what people in JC think.


The PA cease and desist letters to Fishs Eddy were comedic gold.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 14:44
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Honestly the Port Authority is too busy sending out cease and desist letters to plate and coffee cup printers to give a shit what people in JC think.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 14:07
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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moobycow wrote:
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nafco wrote:

How do you figure extending the PATH directly to Newark airport is unnecessary compared to having to transfer to a train for one stop, then the monorail? Most major cities have their metros run directly to their major airports and only here is it a chore to make that connection. JFK is the best option with the A train to the Air Train, but having the PATH to Newark will increase mass transit ridership and reduce having the burden of driving or transferring. But I agree, another PATH route would be ideal. We wont see it in our lives though.


Well, there are trains that do run directly to Newark, we just don't have them here. NYC, has them, lots of other places in NJ have them, we happen to have to connect to get there.

Given all of the other transportation needs in the area, the idea of a direct ride on the PATH to Newark falls way, way down on the list of things I'd like to see happen.


Agreed. Also, I don't think people realize that this extension will make the PATH trains more crowded. We already have to deal with lots of people (with many more set to arrive when the new construction is completed).

Imagine how crowded it will get when people start bringing their oversized luggage and carry-ons. This is what we are spending billions for?

Posted on: 2014/8/6 14:02
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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ANY expansion of the PATH system is good. It's overcrowded and reaching capacity. More cars, longer platforms, more stations, ALL of these are good things and we should be glad to have any of them!

Posted on: 2014/8/6 13:56
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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I think theres enough current room in the tunnels for this.

Resized Image


Thats probably an extra 300 - 500 passengers we can get to work daily.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 13:44
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Quote:

nafco wrote:

How do you figure extending the PATH directly to Newark airport is unnecessary compared to having to transfer to a train for one stop, then the monorail? Most major cities have their metros run directly to their major airports and only here is it a chore to make that connection. JFK is the best option with the A train to the Air Train, but having the PATH to Newark will increase mass transit ridership and reduce having the burden of driving or transferring. But I agree, another PATH route would be ideal. We wont see it in our lives though.


Well, there are trains that do run directly to Newark, we just don't have them here. NYC, has them, lots of other places in NJ have them, we happen to have to connect to get there.

Given all of the other transportation needs in the area, the idea of a direct ride on the PATH to Newark falls way, way down on the list of things I'd like to see happen.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 13:12
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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JCMan8 wrote:
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my2cents wrote:
Adding a car to each train is barely going to make a difference on such an overcrowded system.

The question is how do you add more capacity? They've figured out how to stuff a few extra trains into rush hour but with tracks that intersect and safety requirements, I doubt there is much more they can do other than create peak and offpeak pricing during rush hours.

The only other way would be to build a new line and additional 2 tunnels.
Obviously this would cost billions but a way to keep costs lower is to extend a route from JSQ around the backside of Hoboken (above ground using what appears to be abandoned rail right of way and widen the light rail corridor and route a tunnel) to connect to the 7 line extension with a connector that runs to Secaucus that has been suggested.

This would make a lot more sense than adding track from the current terminus in Newark to the Airport...


The extension to Newark airport will cost billions and is completely unnecessary. While building a new line sounds crazy, I'd rather see money spent towards that than this extension.


How do you figure extending the PATH directly to Newark airport is unnecessary compared to having to transfer to a train for one stop, then the monorail? Most major cities have their metros run directly to their major airports and only here is it a chore to make that connection. JFK is the best option with the A train to the Air Train, but having the PATH to Newark will increase mass transit ridership and reduce having the burden of driving or transferring. But I agree, another PATH route would be ideal. We wont see it in our lives though.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 13:08
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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my2cents wrote:
The trains barely fit into most stations as is. I doubt the infrastructure above the 6th Avenue in Manhattan, Grove Street, Exchange Place and Newport could support adding 3 cars.


That's why the project is a long way off. It will involve the extension of platforms and stations in order to be able to fit the longer trains.


Quote:

my2cents wrote:
Also there is a concept called buffering between trains and the adjustment of train speed into and out of stations that would reduce the number of trains.


The separation of trains will be shortened, not enlarged, once the signal upgrade project is completed and deployed into production. That project is way behind schedule (as it is the case with all PA projects!) I believe that the signal upgrade project is slated for completion in the next two or three years. Station platforms modifications are at least 5 years out, and quite possibly farther out.

Quote:

my2cents wrote:
Adding cars if feasible is only a short sighted band aid as compared to creating a long term option such as a new route that is independent to the current infrastructure.
Either option is going to take many years and dollars. Might as well figure out an option that provides access to a greater portion of the population now and in the future.


That's only your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I think that bumping capacity to by over 40% is a step in the right direction. Population in JC will likely not increase more than 10% over the next decade. If they can increase capacity on PATH by 40%, that should yield some great results.

As for your idea of adding more tunnels, and lines: GOOD LUCK. At this point, I would argue that is next to impossible. The MTA is already approaching 7 years of construction to extend the 7 line by a mere 1.3 miles! And only a single new station is being added! How long do you think it would take to deploy new tunnels (under the Hudson no less) to connect JC, or other coastal city in NJ, to Manhattan? New stations?? Good luck getting Manhattan land and real estate appropriated for such a project. The realities of today are such that this sort of project is next to impossible. You would have to get the governments of NYS, NYC, NJ and JC to collaborate on what would surely involve extensive use of imminent domain, expensive land appropriation, construction, etc. Not going to happen in our lifetime.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 5:45
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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lol at thesuggestion that extending path to newark is completely unnnecessary. yes, it is not necessary just like i imagine someone a hundred years saying that path or the holland tunnel or bridges weren't necessary when you have barges across the river.

i think jc needs to improve its infrastructure. i also think they should add more light rail stops in jersey city (pacific) and something near the cast iron lofts as wll as extending the system further north and south

Posted on: 2014/8/6 4:48
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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The trains barely fit into most stations as is. I doubt the infrastructure above the 6th Avenue in Manhattan, Grove Street, Exchange Place and Newport could support adding 3 cars.
Also there is a concept called buffering between trains and the adjustment of train speed into and out of stations that would reduce the number of trains.

Adding cars if feasible is only a short sighted band aid as compared to creating a long term option such as a new route that is independent to the current infrastructure.
Either option is going to take many years and dollars. Might as well figure out an option that provides access to a greater portion of the population now and in the future.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 4:39
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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my2cents wrote:
Adding a car to each train is barely going to make a difference on such an overcrowded system.

The question is how do you add more capacity?


Huh? The stated plan is to add three cars to each train. Heck, even one car would be a substantial improvement. One additional car represents a 14% increase in capacity for each train trip. Three added cars would represent almost a 43% increase in capacity. How's can you say that a 43% increase in capacity, or even just 14%, is barely going to make a difference?

Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:58
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Quote:

my2cents wrote:
Adding a car to each train is barely going to make a difference on such an overcrowded system.

The question is how do you add more capacity? They've figured out how to stuff a few extra trains into rush hour but with tracks that intersect and safety requirements, I doubt there is much more they can do other than create peak and offpeak pricing during rush hours.

The only other way would be to build a new line and additional 2 tunnels.
Obviously this would cost billions but a way to keep costs lower is to extend a route from JSQ around the backside of Hoboken (above ground using what appears to be abandoned rail right of way and widen the light rail corridor and route a tunnel) to connect to the 7 line extension with a connector that runs to Secaucus that has been suggested.

This would make a lot more sense than adding track from the current terminus in Newark to the Airport...


The extension to Newark airport will cost billions and is completely unnecessary. While building a new line sounds crazy, I'd rather see money spent towards that than this extension.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:55
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Adding a car to each train is barely going to make a difference on such an overcrowded system.

The question is how do you add more capacity? They've figured out how to stuff a few extra trains into rush hour but with tracks that intersect and safety requirements, I doubt there is much more they can do other than create peak and offpeak pricing during rush hours.

The only other way would be to build a new line and additional 2 tunnels.
Obviously this would cost billions but a way to keep costs lower is to extend a route from JSQ around the backside of Hoboken (above ground using what appears to be abandoned rail right of way and widen the light rail corridor and route a tunnel) to connect to the 7 line extension with a connector that runs to Secaucus that has been suggested.

This would make a lot more sense than adding track from the current terminus in Newark to the Airport...

Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:31
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Please do not click on the link, I prefer you remain uninform and my youtube account is not monetized.

Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:08
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Since I'm not going to give the crazy lady page views on her probably monetized youtube account, someone want to provide the cliff notes version?


Posted on: 2014/8/6 3:01
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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(I remember Healy talked about a Marion PATH station)


Proposal to ease traffic for the Marion section

Monday, May 15, 2006 By BONNIE FRIEDMAN JOURNAL STAFF WRITER

It's been 33 years since the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey built a new station for its Trans-Hudson rail system - a fact that is not derailing Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy in his quest for a PATH station in the Marion section of the city.

"We want to encourage people to use mass transit rather than all these motor vehicles that are clogging the daylights out of the county, the city and the state," Healy said.

With some 1,000 units of housing slated for the largely residential area, city officials are pushing into high gear to convince the Port Authority to add an above-ground station at the corner of Broadway and West Side Avenue, an idea that the agency is decidedly cool to.

Full JJ piece..

http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubes/new-jc-station.html

The above link is from this older interesting site about the Hudson Tubes?

http://www.hudsoncity.net/tubes/gatewaytubepage.html

.

Posted on: 2014/8/5 23:44
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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When the Grove Path Station was being redone awhile back, I read somewhere they could not add more trains because some of the stations would not accommodate a longer train. I just don't remember which stations they referred. I know how difficult it is to get on the Path at Grove and Pavonia, the reason I suggested Marion station would go directly to Grove and and Journal Square would bypass Grove and go directly to Pavonia. My suggestion helps both Journal Square and downtown.


Posted on: 2014/8/5 23:36
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
Adding a platform to a Marion station would be cheaper than digging underground at Grove or Pavonia to expand the station. The tracks are already there.


The longer platforms would accommodate longer trains that can hold more people. Adding a station would not solve that issue, but I don't see why we can't have both.

Posted on: 2014/8/5 22:39
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Adding a platform to a Marion station would be cheaper than digging underground at Grove or Pavonia to expand the station. The tracks are already there.

Posted on: 2014/8/5 21:12
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Yvonne wrote:
Mayor Fulop announced in one of his emails to taxpayers, there will be 17,000 new units in the near future. Of course most will be downtown or Journal Square, 17,000 units perhaps means 34,000 new people on the PATH. We pay tolls for services. The infrastructure is there, only a platform needs to be built.


Money would be better spent expanding the existing platforms, to accomodate more PATH train cars, since the new development is where the existing PATH stations are.

Posted on: 2014/8/5 21:04
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Mayor Fulop announced in one of his emails to taxpayers, there will be 17,000 new units in the near future. Of course most will be downtown or Journal Square, 17,000 units perhaps means 34,000 new people on the PATH. We pay tolls for services. The infrastructure is there, only a platform needs to be built.

Posted on: 2014/8/5 21:01
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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Where do you think the PATH system gets it funding from? Tolls and fares from the PA.....

Posted on: 2014/8/5 20:53
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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It would cost taxpayers no money. It would be part of the PATH system. Unfortunately, we pay for things that are not related to transportation, such as the new World Trade building.

Posted on: 2014/8/5 20:36
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Re: New PATH Station - Marion
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This makes no sense.... It would cost JC taxpayers millions to service a relatively small area, that is already close to JSQ.

Posted on: 2014/8/5 20:21
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New PATH Station - Marion
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Posted on: 2014/8/5 19:25
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