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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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dtjcview wrote:
The solution is pretty simple - fix what's broken with abatements, fix what's broken with Abbott and school funding, fix what's broken with Mount Laurel. Tying different objectives together - like tying abatements to school funding - is a recipe for failure.

Personally I think schools should be fully funded by state and federal, since that's really where policy is set - NCLB, Title I, Abbott, common core, NJEA...it's only because the state is on a fast-track to bankruptcy that this is an issue.



You cannot fix what is broken with tax abatements, they are legal contracts. You don't renew them as Fulop did with several abatements in his term.

Posted on: 2015/8/5 0:27
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Sommerman wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
This is a fair assessment. DTJC would suffer more than say Greenville, but all would suffer none the less if Abbot funding disappears. Owners of long term tax abated properties would be the only ones unaffected.

It's better to do something now than let the problem compound itself by kicking the can down the road.


Just a guess based on small sample observation, but if 'suffer' means being unable to afford one's home, DTJC might suffer much less than poorer neighborhoods. Pulling a kid out of private school, day care instead of nanny, cutting back on vacations, making a lump sum mortgage payment and refinancing are options that free up money, should taxes go up. Just a guess...


I'm not so sure... If there is a reval, the property taxes in Greenville would likely go down while property owners in Ward E would see their taxes skyrocket. This is because Ward E properties have appreciated much faster than Greenville since the last revaluation 25 years ago. t's a zero sum game. Losing the Abbott district status would be chaos, however.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 22:21
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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JCGuys wrote:
This is a fair assessment. DTJC would suffer more than say Greenville, but all would suffer none the less if Abbot funding disappears. Owners of long term tax abated properties would be the only ones unaffected.

It's better to do something now than let the problem compound itself by kicking the can down the road.


Just a guess based on small sample observation, but if 'suffer' means being unable to afford one's home, DTJC might suffer much less than poorer neighborhoods. Pulling a kid out of private school, day care instead of nanny, cutting back on vacations, making a lump sum mortgage payment and refinancing are options that free up money, should taxes go up. Just a guess...

Posted on: 2015/8/4 22:01
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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The solution is pretty simple - fix what's broken with abatements, fix what's broken with Abbott and school funding, fix what's broken with Mount Laurel. Tying different objectives together - like tying abatements to school funding - is a recipe for failure.

Personally I think schools should be fully funded by state and federal, since that's really where policy is set - NCLB, Title I, Abbott, common core, NJEA...it's only because the state is on a fast-track to bankruptcy that this is an issue.


Posted on: 2015/8/4 21:01
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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JCGuys, I have been saying this for years. During the 1990s at an abatement hearing, I said the state might raise our contributions to the Board of Ed, then our payments were frozen at $72 million. The people in the administration laughed and said I was exaggerating. Well, in 2005, the state allowed the contribution to rise and we are now paying $112 million. That is $40 million more in 10 years. I can easily see the state saying we must pay $120 million more. This is the reason I am against affordable housing. It brings in more school age children and the families do not contribute to the school system via abatements. Also, it is a federal list who gets these homes, it is not JC residents.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 19:52
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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bodhipooh wrote:
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JCGuys wrote:
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Walters wrote:
The State is going to change it . The public sector pension fund is becoming " The Walking Dead " if they sniff money someplace in NJ they are going to want it . The public sector is not blue or red , it's all about funding pensions . And all this talk recently about JC , Hoboken and tax abatments has just shot a flare up.


We can only hope. 3.5% sales taxes, no property reval in 25+ years, and the rest of the state subsidizing 70% of our school costs thanks to Mr. Abbot. Sounds like a sweet deal and we'll see if anyone has the balls at the state to change it.

Until then, let the happy times in Jersey City roll. If Fulop does become governor, I wonder if he'll just leave the abatement policy in place.


Lots of prognosticating going on here... since we are guessing, I will add that despite what is being bandied about in other threads as to the biggest risks to DTJC real estate being the PATH issues and other infrastructure problems, I think the BIGGEST THREAT to all of that is the pending reval (lots of homeowners living on thin monthly margins will have some serious issues affording their new tax bills if their brownstones and other properties start to get assessed at their true value) and an even bigger risk to all of JC overall is the question of Abbott funding. That topic is getting lots of attention lately, and if the state starts to cut back on JC PS funding, and the city is forced to make up the difference, local taxes could see a serious increase, which would affect all residents, not just DTJC.


This is a fair assessment. DTJC would suffer more than say Greenville, but all would suffer none the less if Abbot funding disappears. Owners of long term tax abated properties would be the only ones unaffected.

It's better to do something now than let the problem compound itself by kicking the can down the road.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 15:38
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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JCGuys wrote:
Quote:

Walters wrote:
The State is going to change it . The public sector pension fund is becoming " The Walking Dead " if they sniff money someplace in NJ they are going to want it . The public sector is not blue or red , it's all about funding pensions . And all this talk recently about JC , Hoboken and tax abatments has just shot a flare up.


We can only hope. 3.5% sales taxes, no property reval in 25+ years, and the rest of the state subsidizing 70% of our school costs thanks to Mr. Abbot. Sounds like a sweet deal and we'll see if anyone has the balls at the state to change it.

Until then, let the happy times in Jersey City roll. If Fulop does become governor, I wonder if he'll just leave the abatement policy in place.


Lots of prognosticating going on here... since we are guessing, I will add that despite what is being bandied about in other threads as to the biggest risks to DTJC real estate being the PATH issues and other infrastructure problems, I think the BIGGEST THREAT to all of that is the pending reval (lots of homeowners living on thin monthly margins will have some serious issues affording their new tax bills if their brownstones and other properties start to get assessed at their true value) and an even bigger risk to all of JC overall is the question of Abbott funding. That topic is getting lots of attention lately, and if the state starts to cut back on JC PS funding, and the city is forced to make up the difference, local taxes could see a serious increase, which would affect all residents, not just DTJC.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 15:24
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Small change to my hopes below so it says how I really feel:

Since we're predicting the future, I predict that absolutely nothing will change with JC granting out abatements until direction comes from the state or courts.

Let's see who's right. In the mean time, I hope Fulop passes out another several hundred billion in abatement until one of us is proven right or wrong.


Posted on: 2015/8/4 14:29
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Walters wrote:
The State is going to change it . The public sector pension fund is becoming " The Walking Dead " if they sniff money someplace in NJ they are going to want it . The public sector is not blue or red , it's all about funding pensions . And all this talk recently about JC , Hoboken and tax abatments has just shot a flare up.


We can only hope. 3.5% sales taxes, no property reval in 25+ years, and the rest of the state subsidizing 70% of our school costs thanks to Mr. Abbot. Sounds like a sweet deal and we'll see if anyone has the balls at the state to change it.

Until then, let the happy times in Jersey City roll. If Fulop does become governor, I wonder if he'll just leave the abatement policy in place.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 13:45
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Yvonne wrote:
When reval goes through and that one third goes up you will see city hall flooded with opposition to tax abatements.


Since we're predicting the future, I predict that absolutely nothing will change with JC granting out abatements until direction comes from the state or courts.

Let's see who's right. In the mean time, I hope Fulop passes out another several billion in abatement until one of us is proven right or wrong.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 13:42
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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The State is going to change it . The public sector pension fund is becoming " The Walking Dead " if they sniff money someplace in NJ they are going to want it . The public sector is not blue or red , it's all about funding pensions . And all this talk recently about JC , Hoboken and tax abatments has just shot a flare up.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 13:06
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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When reval goes through and that one third goes up you will see city hall flooded with opposition to tax abatements.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 12:46
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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dtjcview wrote:
Thanks Dan. There's zero incentive for JC to change. This change has to come from the state.


Bingo. Nothing will change unless it comes from the state.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 4:40
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Yvonne wrote:
Or taxpayers could show up at council meetings to tell the council no when voting on tax abatements.
How has that worked out for you Yvonne for the last 20 years? It also assumes everyone is against abatements.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 4:39
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Or taxpayers could show up at council meetings to tell the council no when voting on tax abatements.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 3:07
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Thanks Dan. There's zero incentive for JC to change. This change has to come from the state.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 2:24
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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abatements are like crack/cocaine for local mayors and council people. they need to be better regulated short of being taken away.

it is state law that giveth, so it must be state law that taketh.

and the political will must come from a governor via executive order or the state senate where less populated areas have equal influence.

Quote:

user1111 wrote:
"Jersey City wants everyone other than its own residents to pay the city's bills," Doherty told The Jersey Journal in November.

More here

Posted on: 2015/8/4 2:10
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Yvonne wrote:
I am not worried about the guy who as a GED diploma, I am worried about the guy with a Master's Degree and sits in City Hall handing out sweetheart tax abatements. The GOP has its eyes on Fulop not Sweeney. The Republicans will write legislation to take away school funding because JC feels it doesn't need to collect school taxes.


Who is responsible for NJ's abatement mess? Who's accountable for fixing the issue? The bottom line - it's a NJ state issue. The state needs to solve it. Period.

You and Monroe might as well blame Obama for the problem. Go look up "empty rhetoric". That beyond your kindergarten comprehension?

Posted on: 2015/8/4 2:04
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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I am not worried about the guy who as a GED diploma, I am worried about the guy with a Master's Degree and sits in City Hall handing out sweetheart tax abatements. The GOP has its eyes on Fulop not Sweeney. The Republicans will write legislation to take away school funding because JC feels it doesn't need to collect school taxes.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 1:38
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Monroe wrote:
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dtjcview wrote:
It's the state's job to sort out the abatement mess. Christie has had a report on his desk for 5 years and nothing's happened. Do your job and stop blaming others. (Makes a change from blaming Obama).

http://www.nj.gov/comptroller/news/docs/tax_abatement_report.pdf


As if the GED guy Sweeney and double (or is it triple) dipper Hudson County pol Prieto would let this get anywhere . . .


There are clearly practical measures in the report that would gain significant bipartisan support. Stop whinging and start working.

Posted on: 2015/8/4 0:15
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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dtjcview wrote:
It's the state's job to sort out the abatement mess. Christie has had a report on his desk for 5 years and nothing's happened. Do your job and stop blaming others. (Makes a change from blaming Obama).

http://www.nj.gov/comptroller/news/docs/tax_abatement_report.pdf


As if the GED guy Sweeney and double (or is it triple) dipper Hudson County pol Prieto would let this get anywhere . . .

Posted on: 2015/8/3 23:26
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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It's the state's job to sort out the abatement mess. Christie has had a report on his desk for 5 years and nothing's happened. Do your job and stop blaming others. (Makes a change from blaming Obama).

http://www.nj.gov/comptroller/news/docs/tax_abatement_report.pdf

Posted on: 2015/8/3 21:39
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Posted on: 2015/8/3 21:27
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Exactly- because abatements and PILOTs work.

Maybe if Phillipsburg lured developers, it wouldn't be such a craphole that Jersey City residents have to subsidize.


How can JC taxpayers subsidize Phillipsburg schools when you don't pay $500,000,000/year of your own school costs? And Phillipsburg gets less than 1/10th of that??

Can I assume you're a JC high school grad?


LOL um our NJ income taxes actually subsidize the whole system.

We are all paying for stupidity across the increasingly smaller poor, red parts of NJ.

What will you do once your boy is in jail? Presumably blame the media...


You need a better understanding of how schools are funded in NJ, seriously.

And while blue Hudson County taxes are going up again, red Morris County taxes haven't gone up a cent in the last two years, and county debt was reduced over $8 million this year with no reduction of services.

Jersey City's share of Hudson County taxes will rise 6% . . . as announced today.

Red vs Blue.


"Parsippany?s budget will only increase by 10 cents per day on a home assessed at the township?s average home price of $309,000. - See more at: http://www.northjersey.com/news/budge ... 8552#sthash.LEJcQutf.dpuf"

Lies versus truth.

And anyone in Morris County who uses NJT or PA tunnels/trains has seen an increase in paying for services- all agreed to by Governor Mafioso.

Not to mention anyone who attends a state college or university saw their tuition increase while the colleges got less funding- which he signed off on as well.

Any Morris County residents, especially all the Republican cops, hoping for their pensions should probably forget it. Christie sees no need to comply with the law.

OTOH- attorneys at the firm who published 1M of lies and crap who live in Morris County, PA employees who live there, anyone who works at Wolff & Samson, probably doing very well thanks to the Governor...at least for the next few months!

Posted on: 2014/6/30 19:07
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Monroe wrote:
Pebble, the tax paid by the well to do is different. If I'm buying pants at Brooks Brothers I'll be paying a lot more in tax than someone buying pants at KMart.

That said, I loooooove finding bargains at Red, White, and Blue in Paterson-got a great Brooks Brothers polo shirt for a few dollars, and a Ralph Lauren blazer (sold at Lord and Taylor) for $5.95.

You are correct. However, the resources still hold true in the sense that those Brooks Brothers suits that CEOs like to wear are tax deductible, as are their dry cleaning bills. You give with one hand and take back with the other.

That CEO paying a cell bill might be paying more than Joe Sixpack, but it probably isn?t possible for the percentage of salary to be impacted nearly as much.

Quote:

WhoElseCouldIBe wrote:
Sorry, none of these figures show that:

Quote:
The tax system is designed to create a fair and equitable measure.


or that:

Quote:
Based on every metric available, the tax system is designed around the simple concept that every person end up paying out the same percentage.


Your words, not mine. And so far, you haven't backed up your claims.

As the law likes to say, lack of knowledge regarding the law does not mean the law doesn?t exist.
Washington Post: How taxes are distributed

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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Exactly- because abatements and PILOTs work.

Maybe if Phillipsburg lured developers, it wouldn't be such a craphole that Jersey City residents have to subsidize.


How can JC taxpayers subsidize Phillipsburg schools when you don't pay $500,000,000/year of your own school costs? And Phillipsburg gets less than 1/10th of that??

Can I assume you're a JC high school grad?

I?ve pointed it out before but it is a total picture on things. You are subsidizing JC so that these poor people that are unwanted don?t move to those towns. If your property tax bill was reduced enough, guess who would be able to afford to move in?

Posted on: 2014/6/30 18:50
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Exactly- because abatements and PILOTs work.

Maybe if Phillipsburg lured developers, it wouldn't be such a craphole that Jersey City residents have to subsidize.


How can JC taxpayers subsidize Phillipsburg schools when you don't pay $500,000,000/year of your own school costs? And Phillipsburg gets less than 1/10th of that??

Can I assume you're a JC high school grad?


LOL um our NJ income taxes actually subsidize the whole system.

We are all paying for stupidity across the increasingly smaller poor, red parts of NJ.

What will you do once your boy is in jail? Presumably blame the media...


You need a better understanding of how schools are funded in NJ, seriously.

And while blue Hudson County taxes are going up again, red Morris County taxes haven't gone up a cent in the last two years, and county debt was reduced over $8 million this year with no reduction of services.

Jersey City's share of Hudson County taxes will rise 6% . . . as announced today.

Red vs Blue.

Posted on: 2014/6/27 20:04
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Monroe wrote:
Quote:

RUinHamiltonPark wrote:
Exactly- because abatements and PILOTs work.

Maybe if Phillipsburg lured developers, it wouldn't be such a craphole that Jersey City residents have to subsidize.


How can JC taxpayers subsidize Phillipsburg schools when you don't pay $500,000,000/year of your own school costs? And Phillipsburg gets less than 1/10th of that??

Can I assume you're a JC high school grad?


LOL um our NJ income taxes actually subsidize the whole system.

We are all paying for stupidity across the increasingly smaller poor, red parts of NJ.

What will you do once your boy is in jail? Presumably blame the media...

Posted on: 2014/6/27 19:20
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Yvonne wrote:
Guess what? There are still "junk stores" downtown. Newark Avenue is not as nice as Bergenline Ave in North Hudson or even Broadway in Bayonne. New condos can be built but they don't deserve 20 and 30 years abatement.


LOL

You don't really believe that do you...my guess is you define "nice" as "full of older timers with no interlopers"

Posted on: 2014/6/27 19:18
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Which is why the more inland neighborhoods are more desirable now. But most of the rest of the town is already biult on, so you will not have wholesale crap building like that anymore. Much of the area within two blocks of the water is a dead zone after business hours now.

Posted on: 2014/6/25 2:48
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Re: Republican state senator slams Jersey City on tax abatements
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Yvonne wrote:
Development will happen, but if you look at downtown it developed without a plan, the developers called the shots. There is a traffic nightmare that didn't exist before development, we are also running out of open space, which adds to the flooding problem, limited recreation space and schools. Downtown JC is a classic case of poor development and it did not stabilize the tax rate.


One thing I agree on. JC gave away it's entire waterfront when it could have been turned into a world-class promenade with a little city planning.

Posted on: 2014/6/25 2:38
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