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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Can you two go back and read, please?

Pebble made the martini comparisons, saying teachers don't get them in the public sector. I just pointed out that the middle class workers who earn the same salaries as teachers earn DON'T get them either. Where did I say teachers take two hour martini lunches?

But those middle class workers don't get the Cadillac health plans for life and cushy pensions and sick day payouts, at current compensation levels.

And again, Pebble, read up. The Sandy 'investigation' isn't an investigation at all. It's a standard audit. Did you know that, or know the difference?

In any case, the Governor has led the way with pension reform, and the beginnings of tenure reform-all to improve both our financial situation and remove ineffective teachers. Both of which will benefit children.




Posted on: 2014/1/16 21:45
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Because there are people that simply don?t understand the fact that teachers make very little, I went on a simple fact finding mission. So?

The average teacher salary in NJ is $63,154 per year, while the median salary is $57,467. The woman quoted in the article was making around that average and had been on the job for 14 years. There is no mention of the average number of years employed. I was hoping for that to make a better comparison, but I think the 14 years is solid number.

The average starting salary for someone that graduates with a computer science degree in NJ is $59,977. If you major in education, your starting salary is nearly $20,000 lower. If you majored in health sciences, your starting salary is $10k per year higher than a teacher and if you majored in business, your starting salary is about $15k higher than a teacher.

Are the requirements to become a teacher easier than becoming a computer programmer? Do you take fewer classes in college? Do you have easier courses? Since everyone knows the answer to this is that the teacher has the additional testing and sit-in requirements, it is actually harder to get that teaching job than it is to be a computer programmer.

If it is taking teachers 14 years to reach $63k, how long do you think it takes that computer programmer, starting at the average salary of $60k to reach $63k?

The argument that teachers have some sort of easy life and that they get so many more benefits to those that make the same money is not just deliberately dishonest, it?s stupid. The comparison is to those with equal numbers of years of service and education.

The article points out that less than 2% of the approximate 110,000 teachers make $100k. That?s your salary cap, right there. How many industries have that? Where else can you see a job that requires more education and then starts you off at an average salary $10k less than anyone else with a degree that is about equal? Yet, somehow, you have the ignorant blaming them and arguing that they make too much. Amazing!

Posted on: 2014/1/16 21:41
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

cousin wrote:
Yes teachers' unions are against merit pay because researchers, educators and policians still do not agree on how to measure a "successful teacher".

As far as "life time security", teachers are no different from police, firefighters, subway workers etc.. Public servants trade the high salaries, christmas bonuses, and 2 hour martini lunches the corporate folks enjoy for a chance to better society while enduring low pay, poor working conditions, and of course, a few, misinformed people like you who will attack at every opportunity.


Nonsense, the private sector people whose salaries mimic teachers don't get 2 hour martini lunches and fat bonuses, do they? Except their pensions are 401Ks, and they end up on Medicaid and Medicare rather than have a Cadillac lifetime health plan paid by others. And they don't get to cash out on unused sick days, (excessive numbers of course given per year), and have them paid out at their final rate rather than the rate they were paid 20, 30 years past.

Just exactly why do you think Christie won such a convincing victory in a blue state? Because the taxpayers finally are waking up. JC isn't far from Detroit-look what happened to the fat pensions and benefits there . . .

What teach has a 2 hour lunch break!?

Cadillac pensions?!

You?re comical.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
I've got friends who teach in big cities as well in cushy suburbs. They all tell me what an easy gig it is.

The only people who have it better are the Port Authority retirees, and the first responders who do actually risk their lives for us and deserve much of what they get, especially those who work in inner cities.

Uh huh? that backs up absolutely nothing you wrote about and it just makes you sort of look like an ass. Reminds me of the ?I?m not a racist. I have black friends!?

Teachers have a far harder job than I and make a vastly lower salary. Sure, I?d love their pension. But the difference in salary allows me to invest more and possibly make more.


Time to bone up on reading comprehension, Pebble. I wrote comparing people whose salary is similar to teachers don't get two hour martini fueled lunches or get huge bonuses. You know, the middle class. They have 401Ks, no generous sick time buyouts, and no Cadillac health plans for life with spousal coverage.

You know, the middle class folk who are paying for the public sector benefits.

I'll ignore the talking point, looney left insults as usual, lol. You're nothing if not predictable.

In any case, after decades and decades of giving away the house the pendulum is arcing back towards fiscal sanity, if only because we don't want to become Detroit.


Why the race to the bottom? In this country's economic hey-day (1950s) the disparity was not as high as it is now and people were paying their fair share in taxes (rich and corporations included). Defined benefit plans give people an opportunity to retire in dignity. More people should have defined benefit plans rather than defined contribution plans. Teachers pay into their pension plans. The Christie Whitman administration decided to cut the taxes on the wealthy and then borrow money from the public pension plan. If the state just raised the taxes to the pre-Whitman era and the state could make pension contributions, the pension plan would be in better shape and the entire state of NJ would be better off too.

And if teachers have it so good (i.e "martini lunches," why isn't everyone running out to become a teacher?

Posted on: 2014/1/16 21:06
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Time to bone up on reading comprehension, Pebble. I wrote comparing people whose salary is similar to teachers don't get two hour martini fueled lunches or get huge bonuses. You know, the middle class. They have 401Ks, no generous sick time buyouts, and no Cadillac health plans for life with spousal coverage.

Irony, Monroe?? Maybe it?s you who doesn?t understand much.

I am asking what teacher has a two hour lunch and some Cadillac health plan for life. Show your work.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
You know, the middle class folk who are paying for the public sector benefits.

Yup. And I don?t see where you made a comparison.

The people that make a similar salary usually carry a lower education. Additionally, they work jobs that don?t have the same demand.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
I'll ignore the talking point, looney left insults as usual, lol. You're nothing if not predictable.

Predictable? Ironic!

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
In any case, after decades and decades of giving away the house the pendulum is arcing back towards fiscal sanity, if only because we don't want to become Detroit.

Yeah, because the governor getting investigated for improper use of Sandy funds is someone that knows about fiscal sanity. I guess if the teachers union allowed him to splash his face in every classroom, he would be willing to give them more money?

Quote:

dtjcview wrote:
On ethnicity and special needs skewing the OECD results, where did you see that - or are you just speculating?

I don't have a ready link. This was something I had read about years ago regarding Japan and how they report their test scores.

Information on the Chinese, well, that's just a guessing game. It's no different believing them about how well their students are doing than it is to believe the profit margins of their publicly traded companies.

Quote:

MDM wrote:
On ethnicity and special needs skewing the OECD results, where did you see that - or are you just speculating?

Link to database:
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/pisa2 ... sa2012highlights_5e_1.asp

I'm sorry, but if they are listing China as number 1, their surveys have no merits. I've actually been in a Chinese school and am well aware of their setups. I've also been outside of major cities and seen how there isn't even a school (or running water) in existence.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 20:55
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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On ethnicity and special needs skewing the OECD results, where did you see that - or are you just speculating?

Link to database:
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pisa/pisa2 ... sa2012highlights_5e_1.asp

When the PISA scores are released, there are people who dig through and break out the data in interesting ways.

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Posted on: 2014/1/16 18:32
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

cousin wrote:
Yes teachers' unions are against merit pay because researchers, educators and policians still do not agree on how to measure a "successful teacher".

As far as "life time security", teachers are no different from police, firefighters, subway workers etc.. Public servants trade the high salaries, christmas bonuses, and 2 hour martini lunches the corporate folks enjoy for a chance to better society while enduring low pay, poor working conditions, and of course, a few, misinformed people like you who will attack at every opportunity.


Nonsense, the private sector people whose salaries mimic teachers don't get 2 hour martini lunches and fat bonuses, do they? Except their pensions are 401Ks, and they end up on Medicaid and Medicare rather than have a Cadillac lifetime health plan paid by others. And they don't get to cash out on unused sick days, (excessive numbers of course given per year), and have them paid out at their final rate rather than the rate they were paid 20, 30 years past.

Just exactly why do you think Christie won such a convincing victory in a blue state? Because the taxpayers finally are waking up. JC isn't far from Detroit-look what happened to the fat pensions and benefits there . . .

What teach has a 2 hour lunch break!?

Cadillac pensions?!

You?re comical.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
I've got friends who teach in big cities as well in cushy suburbs. They all tell me what an easy gig it is.

The only people who have it better are the Port Authority retirees, and the first responders who do actually risk their lives for us and deserve much of what they get, especially those who work in inner cities.

Uh huh? that backs up absolutely nothing you wrote about and it just makes you sort of look like an ass. Reminds me of the ?I?m not a racist. I have black friends!?

Teachers have a far harder job than I and make a vastly lower salary. Sure, I?d love their pension. But the difference in salary allows me to invest more and possibly make more.


Time to bone up on reading comprehension, Pebble. I wrote comparing people whose salary is similar to teachers don't get two hour martini fueled lunches or get huge bonuses. You know, the middle class. They have 401Ks, no generous sick time buyouts, and no Cadillac health plans for life with spousal coverage.

You know, the middle class folk who are paying for the public sector benefits.

I'll ignore the talking point, looney left insults as usual, lol. You're nothing if not predictable.

In any case, after decades and decades of giving away the house the pendulum is arcing back towards fiscal sanity, if only because we don't want to become Detroit.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 18:09
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Quote:

Pebble wrote:
Quote:

MDM wrote:
Adding to the opposition to this plan:

As to those test scores, comparing US students with those from other countries: The disparities in testing pretty much disappear when you break down and compare on the basis of ethnicity (European decent with Europeans, Japanese Americans with Japanese, etc.).

Extending school hours will not improve education. IMHO, it will hurt education in particular with boys. Schools are already forcing boys to sit still for hours on end. Increasing the hours will only make school even more torturous.

From my own experience:

I went both to public and private school. After a year in a private school, my SAT scores went up so much that I was warned I would likely be investigated for cheating. The private school had less hours dedicated to classroom time than public, we didn't have much (comparatively) in the way of sports or music, and we got out earlier for summer break.

The difference was in the amount of discipline and it was not coeducational, so the teaching could be tailored more towards boys. Plus, there was a lot more physical activity which went a long way to burning off all that excess energy.

The other part of my education, was getting an after school and summer time job. I got more out of those jobs than every extra-educational program I got enrolled in. If it wasn't for what I learned out of school, I would have declined to go to college (I did... graduated with a degree in engineering). This subject has come up coworkers of mine. Many of us had similar experiences.

Adding on to your point... A lot of those foreign test scores do not include special needs, which we do include. Additionally, you can't compare to places like China, which don't have the most honest accounting system in place. The paucity of creativity that is taught in their schools has demonstrable effects in how the government and companies operate.


On ethnicity and special needs skewing the OECD results, where did you see that - or are you just speculating?

On a side note, the US already spends more time in the classroom than most countries - see page 9.

http://www.oecd.org/education/CN%20-%20United%20States.pdf

Teachers in the U.S. spend much more time teaching than in other countries?

Compared to their peers in other countries, teachers in the U.S. spend a great deal of time in front of the classroom. On average, primary school teachers in the U.S. spend almost 1 100 hours a year teaching, while lower secondary teachers teach for about 1 070 hours, and upper secondary school teachers spend about 1 050 hours. With the exceptions of lower and upper secondary teachers in Argentina and Chile and lower secondary teachers in Mexico, teachers in the U.S. teach for many more hours than in other countries average: 782 hours for primary education, 704 hours for lower secondary, and 658 hours for upper secondary). Notably, while the number of hours of teaching per year tends to decrease with each education level in most OECD countries, the number of teaching hours in the U.S. is roughly the same in primary, lower secondary and upper secondary education (Table D4.2; Chart D4.2).

Posted on: 2014/1/16 18:00
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

cousin wrote:
Yes teachers' unions are against merit pay because researchers, educators and policians still do not agree on how to measure a "successful teacher".

As far as "life time security", teachers are no different from police, firefighters, subway workers etc.. Public servants trade the high salaries, christmas bonuses, and 2 hour martini lunches the corporate folks enjoy for a chance to better society while enduring low pay, poor working conditions, and of course, a few, misinformed people like you who will attack at every opportunity.


Nonsense, the private sector people whose salaries mimic teachers don't get 2 hour martini lunches and fat bonuses, do they? Except their pensions are 401Ks, and they end up on Medicaid and Medicare rather than have a Cadillac lifetime health plan paid by others. And they don't get to cash out on unused sick days, (excessive numbers of course given per year), and have them paid out at their final rate rather than the rate they were paid 20, 30 years past.

Just exactly why do you think Christie won such a convincing victory in a blue state? Because the taxpayers finally are waking up. JC isn't far from Detroit-look what happened to the fat pensions and benefits there . . .

What teach has a 2 hour lunch break!?

Cadillac pensions?!

You?re comical.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
I've got friends who teach in big cities as well in cushy suburbs. They all tell me what an easy gig it is.

The only people who have it better are the Port Authority retirees, and the first responders who do actually risk their lives for us and deserve much of what they get, especially those who work in inner cities.

Uh huh? that backs up absolutely nothing you wrote about and it just makes you sort of look like an ass. Reminds me of the ?I?m not a racist. I have black friends!?

Teachers have a far harder job than I and make a vastly lower salary. Sure, I?d love their pension. But the difference in salary allows me to invest more and possibly make more.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 16:22
Dos A Cero
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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I've got friends who teach in big cities as well in cushy suburbs. They all tell me what an easy gig it is.

The only people who have it better are the Port Authority retirees, and the first responders who do actually risk their lives for us and deserve much of what they get, especially those who work in inner cities.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:56
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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cousin wrote:
Yes teachers' unions are against merit pay because researchers, educators and policians still do not agree on how to measure a "successful teacher".

As far as "life time security", teachers are no different from police, firefighters, subway workers etc.. Public servants trade the high salaries, christmas bonuses, and 2 hour martini lunches the corporate folks enjoy for a chance to better society while enduring low pay, poor working conditions, and of course, a few, misinformed people like you who will attack at every opportunity.


Nonsense, the private sector people whose salaries mimic teachers don't get 2 hour martini lunches and fat bonuses, do they? Except their pensions are 401Ks, and they end up on Medicaid and Medicare rather than have a Cadillac lifetime health plan paid by others. And they don't get to cash out on unused sick days, (excessive numbers of course given per year), and have them paid out at their final rate rather than the rate they were paid 20, 30 years past.

Just exactly why do you think Christie won such a convincing victory in a blue state? Because the taxpayers finally are waking up. JC isn't far from Detroit-look what happened to the fat pensions and benefits there . . .

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:47
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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I love the fact that just attending a public school at some point makes some people feel like they can speak like expert in public education. People who never taught seem to have the most to say. Is it really fair to comment with such confidence and sound so informed about education reform if you're NOT A TEACHER or have NEVER TAUGHT and do not read up on what's really happening? The mainstream media doesn not keep you informed, turst me. You are invited to speak your mind but please be rational when talking about peoples' chosen careers. Especially people who choose careers that better society and more specifically, are their for YOUR children. Keep bashing them and you'll have a revolving door of 3 year teachers. Would that be better?

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:41
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Kids are not failing school because they just don't have enough time to learn everything, they are failing because they don't give a crap and they're not paying attention. Having them sit there and not pay attention for longer doesn't solve anything.

If you're going to extend school hours do something interesting with the time.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:35
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Monroe wrote:
OK, I guess Pebble wants to keep the status quo. As far as teachers being stressed-short days, long vacations, endless summers, practically lifetime employment with tiny chances of losing your job after you receive tenure, terrific pension with lifetime health benefits for you and your spouse.

Spoken like a man with an agenda that knows exceptionally little about teachers and their tasks.

If I made as little as teachers did, you?re darn right there should be a pension waiting in the wings given all the hours sacrificed.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
And yes, inner city teachers should be compensated-if they perform. But the teacher union is adamantly against that, aren't they?

Education is nearly an unquantifiable metric.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
But we get a Governor willing to think outside the box (compare to DiBlasio, who wants to eliminate student choice and shutter charters). But DiBlasio is the looney left hero!

What does DiBlasio have to do with anything? You?re the only one bringing him up. Why is it necessary for you to bring up Democrats when talking about Christie? Do you have some odd political form of Tourette?s?

Christie isn?t thinking outside the box. He?s throwing wet spaghetti against the wall and hoping it sticks.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
It's all about the kids, except when it's about the teachers union.

This statement means absolutely nothing. It?s pure rhetoric.

Quote:

cousin wrote:
If enough people spoke up about these issues we might be able to right the ship. These self-proclaimed education reformers are really just politicians with a corporate agenda. We need to put the "public" back into public education. Thank you for your service to our children and thank yo ufor speaking up on their behalf. We appreciate it.

As Monroe correctly pointed out above, it truly is about the parents and their involvement. If they aren?t going to guide their child at home and interact with their educational enhancement there, I don?t expect them to try and have a say anywhere else.

It?s the cycle of education. Uneducated children are borne from uneducated parents. Some people just have no concept of what is the proper way of going about things.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:32
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Yes teachers' unions are against merit pay because researchers, educators and policians still do not agree on how to measure a "successful teacher".

As far as "life time security", teachers are no different from police, firefighters, subway workers etc.. Public servants trade the high salaries, christmas bonuses, and 2 hour martini lunches the corporate folks enjoy for a chance to better society while enduring low pay, poor working conditions, and of course, a few, misinformed people like you who will attack at every opportunity.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:26
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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If enough people spoke up about these issues we might be able to right the ship. These self-proclaimed education reformers are really just politicians with a corporate agenda. We need to put the "public" back into public education. Thank you for your service to our children and thank yo ufor speaking up on their behalf. We appreciate it.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:16
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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OK, I guess Pebble wants to keep the status quo. As far as teachers being stressed-short days, long vacations, endless summers, practically lifetime employment with tiny chances of losing your job after you receive tenure, terrific pension with lifetime health benefits for you and your spouse.

And yes, inner city teachers should be compensated-if they perform. But the teacher union is adamantly against that, aren't they?

But we get a Governor willing to think outside the box (compare to DiBlasio, who wants to eliminate student choice and shutter charters). But DiBlasio is the looney left hero!

It's all about the kids, except when it's about the teachers union.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:14
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Quote:

MDM wrote:
Adding to the opposition to this plan:

As to those test scores, comparing US students with those from other countries: The disparities in testing pretty much disappear when you break down and compare on the basis of ethnicity (European decent with Europeans, Japanese Americans with Japanese, etc.).

Extending school hours will not improve education. IMHO, it will hurt education in particular with boys. Schools are already forcing boys to sit still for hours on end. Increasing the hours will only make school even more torturous.

From my own experience:

I went both to public and private school. After a year in a private school, my SAT scores went up so much that I was warned I would likely be investigated for cheating. The private school had less hours dedicated to classroom time than public, we didn't have much (comparatively) in the way of sports or music, and we got out earlier for summer break.

The difference was in the amount of discipline and it was not coeducational, so the teaching could be tailored more towards boys. Plus, there was a lot more physical activity which went a long way to burning off all that excess energy.

The other part of my education, was getting an after school and summer time job. I got more out of those jobs than every extra-educational program I got enrolled in. If it wasn't for what I learned out of school, I would have declined to go to college (I did... graduated with a degree in engineering). This subject has come up coworkers of mine. Many of us had similar experiences.

Adding on to your point... A lot of those foreign test scores do not include special needs, which we do include. Additionally, you can't compare to places like China, which don't have the most honest accounting system in place. The paucity of creativity that is taught in their schools has demonstrable effects in how the government and companies operate.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 15:01
Dos A Cero
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Simply extending the school day does not respond to the core issues that are being faced. All it does is add more work to the teachers which are already stressed to the limit. I can?t imagine making a teacher?s salary with the demands they have. It?s ridiculous.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

trambone wrote:
How are you going to increase the school day when you can't even support core programs. We already have art on a cart and music being cut.


Art and music aren't core, like the three R's.

They should be.

Quote:

Monroe wrote:
No amount of art or music (or math and science) instruction will achieve bright and well educated children without involved, supportive parents.

That's the biggest obstacle in the inner cities, and one that spending more education money can't achieve. Look back through the link I put up and see how even though the inner cities already spent thousands more per pupil per year yet the achievement rates pale in comparison.

You should have stopped at the first part, which is a fact. The second is just rhetoric.

Posted on: 2014/1/16 14:58
Dos A Cero
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Adding to the opposition to this plan:

As to those test scores, comparing US students with those from other countries: The disparities in testing pretty much disappear when you break down and compare on the basis of ethnicity (European decent with Europeans, Japanese Americans with Japanese, etc.).

Extending school hours will not improve education. IMHO, it will hurt education in particular with boys. Schools are already forcing boys to sit still for hours on end. Increasing the hours will only make school even more torturous.

From my own experience:

I went both to public and private school. After a year in a private school, my SAT scores went up so much that I was warned I would likely be investigated for cheating. The private school had less hours dedicated to classroom time than public, we didn't have much (comparatively) in the way of sports or music, and we got out earlier for summer break.

The difference was in the amount of discipline and it was not coeducational, so the teaching could be tailored more towards boys. Plus, there was a lot more physical activity which went a long way to burning off all that excess energy.

The other part of my education, was getting an after school and summer time job. I got more out of those jobs than every extra-educational program I got enrolled in. If it wasn't for what I learned out of school, I would have declined to go to college (I did... graduated with a degree in engineering). This subject has come up coworkers of mine. Many of us had similar experiences.

Posted on: 2014/1/15 17:38
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Quote:

HPYC wrote:
A large part of the question that's missing here is what exactly are they going to do with that extra time in school? If the goal is:

- to do more of what they do now, which is wasting time with the latest edu-gimmicks, focusing on everything but fundamental literacy and math skills, and generating piles of homework, or

- to appease parents who just want their kids kept somewhere until they get out of work

Then this is a recipe for a disaster. If, instead, they find ways to bring back art, music, sports, recreation and things like moderated clubs and homework groups; then maybe it's an idea worth considering.

If we stick with what we do now, but just tack on more time, even fewer skilled people will become teachers and our kids will not gain a thing.

Forget about how we pay for it; we need to think about whether it's really a good idea in the first place.


+1. In addition, those of us whose kids are involved in extracurricular activities and religious instruction would find it next to impossible to continue those with a longer school day. It's rough enough as is.

Posted on: 2014/1/15 17:14
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Frank_M wrote:
...
With respect to this topic, the methods used to educate children need a lot more work than the duration of the school day.


+1

The "bean-counter" view is that more hours and more money will improve education. Educating kids isn't a simple production line.

It's about engaging kids, capturing their interest, motivating and supporting them, and not simply "teaching" a curriculum. It's about empowering educators to experiment and find what works best with their students, drawing on ideas like:

http://newcitykids.org/
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cnn.heroe ... heroes/tawanda.jones.html
http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/ ... th-is-fun-360-degree-math
http://www.knewton.com/flipped-classroom/

Posted on: 2014/1/15 17:13
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Christie sends his kids to Delbarton because he wants them to have a religious education.

What PS in Washington do Obama's girls attend?

DiBlasio in NY wants preK and full day K for all, and is a liberal darling because he's being progressive.

Christie wants to be progressive re:education in NJ and is called a teacher hater.

Go figure!

Posted on: 2014/1/15 16:26
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Christie falling back on the "hate the teachers move" it got him this far why shouldn't he use it to get out of trouble.

The hypocrite sends his kids to Delbarton where they have a shorter day and shorter year. This is good for your kids (especially if they are the "children of Buono voters") but not his!

Kids don't need more time learning from their government they need more time learning from their family.

Most or all workers should have the same work day as their child's school day so families can exist again. Otherwise, might as well get them used to the wage slave hours early. . . sure.

This guy is a fascist cut from the same fake everyman cloth as GWB.

Posted on: 2014/1/15 16:23
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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+1. Music specifically engages the logic and mathematical parts of the brain and do more for education than just throwing money at the problem. It's sickening how little we give credit to music and art for educating children.

Quote:

Frank_M wrote:
Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

trambone wrote:
How are you going to increase the school day when you can't even support core programs. We already have art on a cart and music being cut.


Art and music aren't core, like the three R's.


I?m an engineer by schooling and profession, but it?s not even my opinion?it?s a fact?art and music are fundamental components of education. Art and music may not be directly relevant to most careers, but they are relevant to our understanding of the world, others, and ourselves. Until we can solve the problems of love and death, there's art and music.

With respect to this topic, the methods used to educate children need a lot more work than the duration of the school day.

Posted on: 2014/1/15 16:22
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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No amount of art or music (or math and science) instruction will achieve bright and well educated children without involved, supportive parents.

That's the biggest obstacle in the inner cities, and one that spending more education money can't achieve. Look back through the link I put up and see how even though the inner cities already spent thousands more per pupil per year yet the achievement rates pale in comparison.


Posted on: 2014/1/15 16:21
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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Quote:

Monroe wrote:
Quote:

trambone wrote:
How are you going to increase the school day when you can't even support core programs. We already have art on a cart and music being cut.


Art and music aren't core, like the three R's.


I?m an engineer by schooling and profession, but it?s not even my opinion?it?s a fact?art and music are fundamental components of education. Art and music may not be directly relevant to most careers, but they are relevant to our understanding of the world, others, and ourselves. Until we can solve the problems of love and death, there's art and music.

With respect to this topic, the methods used to educate children need a lot more work than the duration of the school day.

Posted on: 2014/1/15 16:08
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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hero69 wrote:
even if 65% of school cots is borne by the state, how are counties going to make up for that 35%. and where is christie getting all this money?

i don't mind paying taxes, but honestly, this is a sham proposal that's going noplace. maybe christie ought to be focusing on all the school programs that have been cut. Quality over quantity!


School costs are funded by the state of NJ, local taxes, and Federal money. Zero county money is involved. Here's a link to show how every school district is funded, by percentage and dollars. JC taxpayers are hugely subsidized by other NJ taxpayers. And I was wrong, JC taxpayers have an even sweeter deal, it's 76% funded by the state taxpayers. http://www.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/educat ... dist_code2390&maxhits=650

Posted on: 2014/1/15 15:19
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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As a parent, you should use paragraphs.
Someone have a TL;DR version?

I can't even look at this. Maybe there's a good argument in there?

Quote:

linky wrote:
As a parent of two school-aged children and a veteran teacher who currently works in a school with an extended day, I disagree with Chistie?s proposal. People on this list and Christie himself will probably say that I disagree because I am a lazy, selfish person who is spoiled by ?teacher?s hours?. Of course teachers appreciate getting early, usually so they can catch up on paperwork, but this is not the reason that this teacher opposed an extended school day. I?m against it because I see how terrible it is for children.
My school day ends at 4:15 and, in general, my students are an exhausted, neurotic, miserable mess. Today?s students are under way too much pressure to perform by teachers who are equally pressured and to keep them in school for more time makes it worse. Every teacher on my school?s staff knows that the kids check out by 2:00. Every day at three o?clock I come that much closer to burnout when I have to go against every nurturing bone in my body and force five-year-olds to sit up straight and learn to read and write. At times I have put paper towels on my rug to let a kindergarten student sleep. I would probably get in trouble but I find it abusive to force an exhausted child to try to pay attention to a lesson. There are those who would respond to this and tell me that I have to be more creative in my teaching and engage the students and make my classes a big game. However, those people have not walked in my shoes and do not understand the pressure that I am under to have my students meet the objectives thrust upon me and my students by NCLB (No Child Left Behind) and the Common Core State Standards. They have also probably never heard of a pacing chart or probably have never seen the new lesson plan formats which force me to treat my students like robots.
And then the kids come home and do homework?.way too much homework. In my school, the lucky students get home by 4:45, but the ones who take the bus may get home by 5:30. They have a minimum of an hour?s worth of homework. The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that children between the ages of 5 to 12 get 11 to 12 hours of sleep a night. How is a child supposed to eat dinner, spend time with his parents, read for pleasure, and God forbid actually go to the park and then get into bed by 8:00?
Folks, please know that the politicians are killing childhood. NCLB, CCSS and the likes of Christie have no idea what their policies are doing? I have just ordered dozens of stress balls to give to my students because half of them are biting the skin off their fingers. My daughters are miserable because of school stress as well. Every well-respected educator in history has talked about educating the whole child. Why have the politicians thrown this out the window? If it?s to keep up with the Chinese and remain on top, then they can have it because I don?t want to teach, parent, or live in a country whose educational system is abusive to kids. And if people like Chris Christie have their way, that?s what it will become.
If anyone knows a young person who is majoring in education, my advice is to tell them to switch their major to psychology. We are going to have a lot of messed-up, neurotic people on our hands in ten years in need of a good shrink.


Posted on: 2014/1/15 15:11
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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A large part of the question that's missing here is what exactly are they going to do with that extra time in school? If the goal is:

- to do more of what they do now, which is wasting time with the latest edu-gimmicks, focusing on everything but fundamental literacy and math skills, and generating piles of homework, or

- to appease parents who just want their kids kept somewhere until they get out of work

Then this is a recipe for a disaster. If, instead, they find ways to bring back art, music, sports, recreation and things like moderated clubs and homework groups; then maybe it's an idea worth considering.

If we stick with what we do now, but just tack on more time, even fewer skilled people will become teachers and our kids will not gain a thing.

Forget about how we pay for it; we need to think about whether it's really a good idea in the first place.

Posted on: 2014/1/15 15:08
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Re: Christie calls on extending school day and school year. In Jersey City
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even if 65% of school cots is borne by the state, how are counties going to make up for that 35%. and where is christie getting all this money?

i don't mind paying taxes, but honestly, this is a sham proposal that's going noplace. maybe christie ought to be focusing on all the school programs that have been cut. Quality over quantity!

Posted on: 2014/1/15 14:57
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