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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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on several occasions, I've seen Comey beached in front of former headquarters watching car after car blow through that stop sign at Bay and Erie, and not do a damn thing.

if that's their leadership, I'm not surprised at the calibre of our men in blue.

Quote:

yourdogisbored wrote:
I find it funny that both times someone has posted a negative experience with the JCPD, bradleybeachbrawl feels compelled to accuse them of lying. Talk about blowing your cover, officer.

I can only speak for myself, but I am inclined to believe the OP's story because it is consistent with nearly every interaction I have ever had with JCPD. Mind you, I have never been the "perp". On one occassion, I was the victim of a crime, on others I was simply a citizen with a simple question, and once or twice I've had the extreme displeasure of having contact with an office who was standing around earning time and a half...oops, I mean "directing traffic." In every instance except one, the officer(s) were arrogant, entitled, condescending, uninformed, and generally unhelpful.

If the JCPD wishes to change their earned reputation, they need to start by changing their attitude towards the general public and by leading by example.

Quote:

bradleybeachbrawl wrote:
Has anyone been able to verify this story as even remotely true? Can this be a figment of an overactive imagination? Or because it involves the alleged misgivings of a cop it must be true? I mean who would think someone could actually be full of shit when relaying their tale of woe on an anonymous message board.

Posted on: 2013/8/21 1:58
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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I'm interested in a more detailed account of this call aside from "helpful and supportive". Did the Lieutenant admit that the officer was flat wrong?

Quote:

arcy wrote:
There was no sign there. Just a crosswalk. We need signs like those in Jersey City though.

The Lieutenant just called me. He was very helpful and supportive.

Thanks for all your responses.

Posted on: 2013/8/21 0:28
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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arcy wrote:

I was just crossing the street on Manila and 2nd (8:50 something) and a police car was coming down the street (about a block away). So I assumed I have the right of way (I was two feet off the curb). Well, I walked across the street (going east), politely waved to the officer and after I crossed street the young officer stopped the car just gave me a lecture and said that automobiles have the right of way. He was angry. I politely said, "that was not my understanding but you're a police officer so I take your word for it." He continued to argue with me. I kept saying, "yes Officer." He told me that I was "obstructing traffic." He would not let the matter go. He threatened to give me a ticket. I apologized and said I must have misunderstood the law. I apologized and said I intentionally walked across the street since I saw it was a police car. When I told him this, he said I was "testing him." I said that was not my motive. He said something like I could get my legs cut off by cars and I need to give the cars the right of way.
When I told him that when I'm driving a vehicle, I always stop for pedestrians, he told me that I should have never got a license and that I'm blocking traffic. I said I thought the pedestrian had to be off the curb and then we would give them the right of way.
He stopped traffic for 5 minutes while giving me this lecture.
I googled NJ and pedestrian law. The pedestrians do have the right of way. And there is even a $200 penalty for violating the law. http://www.nj.gov/lps/hts/pedestrian.html
The officer was wrong.
This is why we need "stop to pedestrians" signs at crosswalks, raised crosswalks, and enforcement for pedestrian safety.
I immediately contacted my councilperson, Candice Osborne. She got back to me right away. She also said that on Sunday, they drove around the neighborhood re: street safety. They will be presenting their proposals soon.


I believe this is more serious that just bad advice. Most people would consider the word of police as gospel. If this cop tells 10 people his belief or interpretation of the law (that is wrong) those 10 people will most likely tell 10 other people and so on and so on.
I'd be also writing to the Public Safety Director via Fulop's residential service link / email ..... Its no wonder people in cars are failing to give way to pederstrians at crosswalks. It's been debated here for years and now we know why or causing the confusion.
This could also be why we have poor enforcement - Some officers know the law and some obviously have no clue ... what are they teaching at the police academy!

Posted on: 2013/8/20 23:53
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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trambone wrote:
[quote]
People assume a green light for cars means walk. The intersection at the shoprite actually gives a walk signal and has all traffic halted. It causes delays for people trying to leave that parking lot.


Exactly. And the pedxing WALK signal will not turn to WALK when the lane adjacent to it has the left turn signal up. ie., when cars have the left green arrow on Columbus East bound to turn left on Marin, the ped sign intentionally says DON'T WALK/RED MAN. Peds know this, they are just being rude to the drivers when the drivers have the very short turn light window.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 23:12
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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arcy wrote:
Police in Woodbury NJ are in a program to aggressively enforce pedestrian Right of Way:
http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/i ... ew_safety_initiative.html
I hope Jersey City will start to educate their police about yielding or stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks and that pedestrians have the right of way.



JCPD officers should be aware of the law. They set up a spot check with large signage for a month last year on Washington at the crosswalk going to Steuben. The LED sign flashed the crosswalk law to stop until crosswalk was clear and they were also pulling people over that didn't yield to pedestrians to give them warnings.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 20:52
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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I find it funny that both times someone has posted a negative experience with the JCPD, bradleybeachbrawl feels compelled to accuse them of lying. Talk about blowing your cover, officer.

I can only speak for myself, but I am inclined to believe the OP's story because it is consistent with nearly every interaction I have ever had with JCPD. Mind you, I have never been the "perp". On one occassion, I was the victim of a crime, on others I was simply a citizen with a simple question, and once or twice I've had the extreme displeasure of having contact with an office who was standing around earning time and a half...oops, I mean "directing traffic." In every instance except one, the officer(s) were arrogant, entitled, condescending, uninformed, and generally unhelpful.

If the JCPD wishes to change their earned reputation, they need to start by changing their attitude towards the general public and by leading by example.

Quote:

bradleybeachbrawl wrote:
Has anyone been able to verify this story as even remotely true? Can this be a figment of an overactive imagination? Or because it involves the alleged misgivings of a cop it must be true? I mean who would think someone could actually be full of shit when relaying their tale of woe on an anonymous message board.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 20:30
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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This is so upsetting to hear. There is defintely a culture in this entire state of driver entitlement. I assumed the Police were at least aware of the correct laws.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 20:07
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Quote:

leigh13 wrote:
Quote:

SteveWilson29 wrote:
Quote:

trambone wrote:
This also means pedestrians need to follow the Walk signals. They are always ignored at Columbus and Grove and at the entrance of Shoprite.


Most of them are broken.


That's not really the problem, at least at Columbus and Grove. The sequence is confusing to the point that at almost every single light change, the pedestrians cross before they are supposed to. That ends up delaying the cars turning left from Grove onto Columbus eastbound and it exacerbates and already bad situation.

See the excellent presentation on the Harsimus Cove Association web site:

http://www.harsimuscove.org/news/hars ... tions-for-traffic-calming

This bit explains the problem perfectly:

Quote:
Quick wins: Reconfigure the lighting sequence so that northbound motorists get the green light first. The pedestrian walk signal is tied to the northbound light. Since the southbound motorists get the green light first, pedestrians are subconsciously prompted to walk since they see traffic moving in their direction. For those that aren't acting sub-consciously, they may rationally conclude that the cycle missed them. The fact that the intersection has a pedestrian request button further communicates this if they haven't pressed the button themselves.




People assume a green light for cars means walk. The intersection at the shoprite actually gives a walk signal and has all traffic halted. It causes delays for people trying to leave that parking lot.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 19:47
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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If you take the OP's story out, the core message we've all come to still stands: there are terrible intersections in JC where traffic is becoming very dangerous to pedestrians.

What's so wrong with people trying to make their streets safer from cars?

Quote:

bradleybeachbrawl wrote:
Has anyone been able to verify this story as even remotely true? Can this be a figment of an overactive imagination? Or because it involves the alleged misgivings of a cop it must be true? I mean who would think someone could actually be full of shit when relaying their tale of woe on an anonymous message board.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 19:41
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Has anyone been able to verify this story as even remotely true? Can this be a figment of an overactive imagination? Or because it involves the alleged misgivings of a cop it must be true? I mean who would think someone could actually be full of shit when relaying their tale of woe on an anonymous message board.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 19:14
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Bravo to the folks of the harsimus cove NA. This is very well thought out and actionable.

Big thumbs up. Now, to get the other neighborhood associations to take a similar, structured approach to their traffic problems.

Thanks for sharing, Leigh13!

Posted on: 2013/8/20 19:01
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Quote:

SteveWilson29 wrote:
Quote:

trambone wrote:
This also means pedestrians need to follow the Walk signals. They are always ignored at Columbus and Grove and at the entrance of Shoprite.


Most of them are broken.


That's not really the problem, at least at Columbus and Grove. The sequence is confusing to the point that at almost every single light change, the pedestrians cross before they are supposed to. That ends up delaying the cars turning left from Grove onto Columbus eastbound and it exacerbates and already bad situation.

See the excellent presentation on the Harsimus Cove Association web site:

http://www.harsimuscove.org/news/hars ... tions-for-traffic-calming

This bit explains the problem perfectly:

Quote:
Quick wins: Reconfigure the lighting sequence so that northbound motorists get the green light first. The pedestrian walk signal is tied to the northbound light. Since the southbound motorists get the green light first, pedestrians are subconsciously prompted to walk since they see traffic moving in their direction. For those that aren't acting sub-consciously, they may rationally conclude that the cycle missed them. The fact that the intersection has a pedestrian request button further communicates this if they haven't pressed the button themselves.



Posted on: 2013/8/20 18:51
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Quote:

trambone wrote:
This also means pedestrians need to follow the Walk signals. They are always ignored at Columbus and Grove and at the entrance of Shoprite.


Most of them are broken.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:47
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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arcy wrote:

When I told him that when I'm driving a vehicle, I always stop for pedestrians, he told me that I should have never got a license and that I'm blocking traffic.
I'm speechless.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:43
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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I stand corrected sir. Thank you for sourcing this.

See, JC Listers...we can crowdsource good information!

Now, let's go make a fool of that cop hahahah.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:40
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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A crosswalk does not have to have any paint or signs for it to be a crosswalk. So an unmarked, unpainted crosswalk is still a crosswalk and the driver must yield. From NJDOT:

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation ... pedsafety/crosswalks.shtm

Now the only thing left to debate is what a crosswalk is.


I think this picture shows 4 unmarked crosswalks:

Resized Image

Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:36
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Police in Woodbury NJ are in a program to aggressively enforce pedestrian Right of Way:
http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/i ... ew_safety_initiative.html
I hope Jersey City will start to educate their police about yielding or stopping for pedestrians in crosswalks and that pedestrians have the right of way.


Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:32
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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just as there is a fine line between Saturday night and Sunday morning the line between the pedestrian who walks out into the street hoping for the best and the motorist who believes he is the king of the road is blurred by perception.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:25
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Quote:

nyrgravey9 wrote:
Yes, it does. The law as written on the official website delineates the difference. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just quoting the site.

- Marked crosswalk = intersection with a painted crosswalk and sign (driver MUST stop)
- Unmarked crosswalk = intersection with a painted crosswalk and no sign (driver must yield)
- Unmarked, unpainted crosswalk = plain old intersection. Pedestrian must yield.

It's pretty clearly written on the website, so....

Quote:

arcy wrote:
It was a marked crosswalk. The crosswalk was painted and therefore marked. The sign has nothing to do with whether the crosswalk is marked.


nyrgravey9, can you provide a link to where you found that clarification? I can't find it anywhere on the NJ or US DOT web sites.

I have always taken "Marked crosswalk" to mean one with painted lines regardless of any other signage, and "unmarked crosswalk" to mean a corner crossing where a crosswalk would usually exist, but did not have the painted lines.


Also, I would like to print up a few of these cards to hand out to those drivers who blow through the crosswalks in deference to any pedestrians:

http://www.nj.gov/lps/hts/downloads/C ... alk_Warning_Palm_Card.pdf




Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:23
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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I disagree, but it's exactly that kind of slightly ambiguous language that leaves it open to interpretation. Either way, the drivers in DTJC, for the most part, ignore crosswalks with signs (either because they don't know the rule, or don't care). Hell, just yesterday, at the intersection of Washington and Dudley, some A-Hole blew right through the STOP sign and almost hit an elderly couple with a baby carriage.

I yelled out at the guy (whose window was open), and no response, just kept on driving.

It could ugly out here.

Quote:

Crazy_Chester wrote:
Quote:

nyrgravey9 wrote:
Yes, it does. The law as written on the official website delineates the difference. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just quoting the site.

- Marked crosswalk = intersection with a painted crosswalk and sign (driver MUST stop)
- Unmarked crosswalk = intersection with a painted crosswalk and no sign (driver must yield)
- Unmarked, unpainted crosswalk = plain old intersection. Pedestrian must yield.

It's pretty clearly written on the website, so....

Quote:

arcy wrote:
It was a marked crosswalk. The crosswalk was painted and therefore marked. The sign has nothing to do with whether the crosswalk is marked.



I am not sure it is as clear as you say. If it is an intersection, marked or not, the pedestrian has the right of way provided that they allow the driver enough time.

"Pedestrians:
Always cross at corners, within marked crosswalks where available.

If crossing in other locations, yield the right of way to vehicles. Failure to obey the law carries a $54 fine (court costs additional; C.39:4-32, 33) "

The "other locations" means anywhere other than an intersection with corners.


Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:16
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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it might have been better to let the officer give you a ticket so you had a well defined platform to correct them publicly.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 17:12
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Quote:

nyrgravey9 wrote:
Yes, it does. The law as written on the official website delineates the difference. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just quoting the site.

- Marked crosswalk = intersection with a painted crosswalk and sign (driver MUST stop)
- Unmarked crosswalk = intersection with a painted crosswalk and no sign (driver must yield)
- Unmarked, unpainted crosswalk = plain old intersection. Pedestrian must yield.

It's pretty clearly written on the website, so....

Quote:

arcy wrote:
It was a marked crosswalk. The crosswalk was painted and therefore marked. The sign has nothing to do with whether the crosswalk is marked.



I am not sure it is as clear as you say. If it is an intersection, marked or not, the pedestrian has the right of way provided that they allow the driver enough time.

"Pedestrians:
Always cross at corners, within marked crosswalks where available.

If crossing in other locations, yield the right of way to vehicles. Failure to obey the law carries a $54 fine (court costs additional; C.39:4-32, 33) "

The "other locations" means anywhere other than an intersection with corners.


Posted on: 2013/8/20 16:55
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Quote:

trambone wrote:
This also means pedestrians need to follow the Walk signals. They are always ignored at Columbus and Grove and at the entrance of Shoprite.

Which brings us to the debate of jaywalking versus failure to yield...this is great

Posted on: 2013/8/20 16:45
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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This also means pedestrians need to follow the Walk signals. They are always ignored at Columbus and Grove and at the entrance of Shoprite.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 16:38
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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I find it remarkable how many people are unaware of Pedestrians having the right-of-way at crosswalks. That being said, its still shocking to hear that a police officer is unaware. Manila, Erie and Jersey Avenue are more and more being used as a thoroughfare so hopefully the police department will act with enforcement measures.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 16:14
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Trust me, Im on your side on this one. Just gotta be clear, you know? Painted crosswalk - he def should have yielded.

Newark ave is the worst for this. The crosswalks ARE marked with signs, and nobody ever slows down or yields.

I stop when I see people in the crosswalks, and cars behind me always honk. But, you have to stop.

Good for you for reporting the cop. Unless this cop was in a high speed pursuit, I'm of the philosophy that they need to obey the laws they're enforcing, otherwise, who they F are they to enforce them??

Quote:

arcy wrote:
aaah thanks for the clarification.
Nevertheless, in the specific situation this morning he would have yielded to me since I was 2 feet off the crosswalk. I was able to get across the street. He was over a block away. I crossed the street and then he stopped and scolded me.
Regarding his badge number, I gave the lieutenant the name of the officer.
I always stop for pedestrians though when I'm driving. I guess he was right about me blocking traffic.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 16:13
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Quote:

sepecat wrote:
I wont be surprised if it's the same cop I wrote about on here two weeks back.


Have you seen him lately or has your anonymous complaint been satisfactorily addressed?

Posted on: 2013/8/20 16:11
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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aaah thanks for the clarification.
Nevertheless, in the specific situation this morning he would have yielded to me since I was 2 feet off the crosswalk. I was able to get across the street. He was over a block away. I crossed the street and then he stopped and scolded me.
Regarding his badge number, I gave the lieutenant the name of the officer.
I always stop for pedestrians though when I'm driving. I guess he was right about me blocking traffic.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 16:02
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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Yes, it does. The law as written on the official website delineates the difference. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just quoting the site.

- Marked crosswalk = intersection with a painted crosswalk and sign (driver MUST stop)
- Unmarked crosswalk = intersection with a painted crosswalk and no sign (driver must yield)
- Unmarked, unpainted crosswalk = plain old intersection. Pedestrian must yield.

It's pretty clearly written on the website, so....

Quote:

arcy wrote:
It was a marked crosswalk. The crosswalk was painted and therefore marked. The sign has nothing to do with whether the crosswalk is marked.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 15:56
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Re: JC police officer doesn't even know pedestrian law
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It was a marked crosswalk. The crosswalk was painted and therefore marked. The sign has nothing to do with whether the crosswalk is marked.

Posted on: 2013/8/20 15:49
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