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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Still waiting for the plan, boss...
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Posted on: 2013/8/15 20:49
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Defensive much? That?s a serious accusation and I implied no such thing. Point is, guys are people too, and if you want to talk about ?guys like me,? you must think you know a lot about me. That takes more than a few assumptions, making your objection about my assumptions all the more hypocritical. That?s all, but thanks for jumping straight to racism.
Posted on: 2013/8/15 20:45
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Home away from home
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wow interrupting bullshit with facts, the truth hurts.
Posted on: 2013/8/15 20:08
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Are you slow, or just willfully ignorant? I said "guys like you", not people like you. You're implying a racist comment, when I clearly was referring to those who spew bullshit.
I don't even know or care what color you are, so you keep your assumptions to your yourself buddy. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/15 17:58
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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You don't get off that easy bub.
If you want to prove your mettle, start hashing out some real solutions rather than deflect in hopes we'll just move on. Like I said, I will listen intently and not belittle your solutions. It doesn't mean I won't critique them, and that's fair. I am very interested to know what your ideal answers would be for today's gun and murder problem in Greenville. The mayor is already working on longer-term solutions like jobs and activities, so don't bother with those. Those are very long term. I'm talking today. The floor is your, sir. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/15 17:53
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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A lot of assumptions? I?ve certainly made a few obvious ones?after all, you?ve expressed yourself quite candidly in the past month?but it?s funny you should take exception after leveling criticism against me using the words, ?People like you.? Now if you don't mind, I think that's enough.
Posted on: 2013/8/15 17:28
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Wow, you make a lot of assumptions about someone you don't know. I also didn't know you were the official voice of an entire section of the community.
So, how about this. I won't sit on the soap box but instead defer to your wisdom. What's your solution to stopping the ever increasing gun murder rate in the Greenville part of Jersey City? We're not talking general platitudes here. Outline specific, proven steps you would implement to make a dent in the wave of gun proliferation and murders. You have the floor, sir. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/15 15:34
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Home away from home
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It's generous of you to be so hypothetically cooperative, but innocent victims of unconstitutionally overzealous police work don?t seem to agree. You?re ?here to weave through the bullshit,? huh? You might want to start weaving your way through the perspectives of your fellow countrymen and women who aren?t members of a privileged demographic group.
Posted on: 2013/8/15 15:14
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Look, Frank, I get your point, and I understand what you're saying. Isn't it fair to say, then, that criminals running around with guns illegally infringes on the rights and freedoms of every citizen? Even more so when these incidents become so numerous and commonplace, the citizens become fearful for their lives on a daily basis (as is the case in Greenville)?
I submit to you then, that if a policy such as stop and frisk reduces both gun crimes and murders from guns (which it has), the overall effect is an increase in personal freedom and security, a twofold victory for the larger society. This more than justifies the inconvenience innocent individuals face. I, for one, would rather submit to a stop and frisk search than an armed robbery. Maybe you feel differently.
Posted on: 2013/8/15 2:22
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Posted on: 2013/8/15 2:20
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Home away from home
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Posted on: 2013/8/15 1:29
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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All you have is, "The quote is wrong." Okay fine, and once again I'm not debating that, but there's no point to being right about the literal meaning of a quotation when its popularly subjective impression is much more relevant, important, and most of all, valid. Either your efforts to dismiss that aspect of the subject are purposefully shallow, or you just don't care to challenge yourself. But it's really not about you, me, Mr. Franklin, or the blogs you read. It's about people who suffer at the hands of improper law enforcement tactics--suffering that you and I will never experience firsthand, and there's nothing "fun" about it.
Posted on: 2013/8/15 0:11
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Frank,
It doesn't matter what the consensus is, it's an improper quote, period. Everyone who uses it improperly sounds like a moron, so by all mean, go nuts with it. The only one bullshitting here is you, sir. The SAT jab was pointing to the fact that, in the face of being absolutely wrong, you bullshit your way through the argument with larger words and advanced syntax. Nice try, but I'm here to weave through the bullshit. Guys like you make it fun. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/14 23:39
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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The popular consensus regarding Benjamin Franklin's statement involves the potential of security to cost us the price of liberty, the validity of which has been confirmed by millions of people worldwide. I'm not claiming that's what he meant, but that is the primary reason people invoke his words. Again, the public may be incorrect in the translation, and I'm willing to accept that, but the consensual implication regarding the nature of security and liberty has striking validity. That isn't wrong, you're just making the only argument that allows you to dismiss the subject. Apparently that works for you, but I can't bullshit myself that conveniently. Fancy SAT words? Really? Got a date for the prom yet?
Posted on: 2013/8/14 23:06
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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The grey area is in the word "unreasonable" from my 'understanding ' SOME NYPD officers were profiling individuals and did a 'frisk and search' on everyone that fitted a certain profile - Which meant anyone black or hispanic and between the age of 18 - 25 was being stopped regardless. Their argument was that this profile type was often the group that committed crimes, so everyone was tarnished with the same brush if you fell within that profile group. The Judge and society might and have, deemed this racial profiling - however the arrests and those in jail might suggest some home truths about certain profiling statistics.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 22:36
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Just can't stay away
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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. - Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution
Posted on: 2013/8/14 20:59
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Precisely. I apologize for missing the biggest point of all. Thank you Crazy_Chester.
It's not semantics Frank, you can't bend facts and quotes to make them fit your narrative. If public consensus was that the earth was flat, it doesn't change the objective truth that it's not. All of your fancy SAT words (more like hyperbole) can't correct the fact that you're wrong. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/14 20:49
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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"Stop and Frisk" and "Terry Stops" were not ruled unconstitutional. The way NYC went about them was.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 20:43
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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That?s overstating it enough to obscure the point, which I suppose is convenient, but the reality is that consensus is tremendously relevant with respect to language, and this particular quotation is an excellent example of how that works. It?s only the subjective belief in what it means?and the observed confirmation that such a paradigm often does exist?that?s responsible for its present-day relevance. Further, you?re debating semantics rather than the topic. While you?re certainly free to do that, it doesn?t speak to the legitimacy of Terry stops without genuinely reasonable suspicion.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 20:17
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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While I can't speak for user, I do think those of you who are proponents of stop & frisk or dismiss as it being a mere inconvenience fail to realize that (1) there were more black and brown people stopped than there are actual black/brown people in NYC (i.e. the same people were being stopped multiple times (and not because of reasonable suspicion) rather because they have a certain color of skin and police needing to meet their targets; (2) that merely dressing well/middle class will not innoculate you from overt or subtle racism (I've been profiled here in JC in certain stores which shall remain nameless as have a few of my professional black/Latina friends, have been pulled over and ticketed by JC police but then when being pulled over with white friends driving commiting same infraction, have seen them get warnings); and (3) Bloomberg was playing fast and loose with the facts as far as taking credit that stop and frisk is the sole reason why crime has gone down (guns weren't found and confiscated in these stops but perhaps some weed).
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/a ... d-frisk/278065/#undefined http://www.economist.com/news/leaders ... ould-focus-prevention-not http://rt.com/usa/stop-frisk-whites-drugs-weapons-667/
Posted on: 2013/8/14 19:26
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Right, so things only mean what we want them to, rather than what they mean. Even though the "widely accepted" belief is wrong, we'll just keep spouting the same incorrect BS.
Like George Costanza said "It's not a lie, if YOU believe it". Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/14 19:23
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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No, that IS how it works in this case. The only reason that quotation usually enters into a discussion is because it is widely believed to mean that the nature of certain types of security are counterproductive to the goal of liberty. Perhaps that?s not what Mr. Franklin meant, but that?s what it means to Americans today. Likewise, the Theory of Relativity isn't E=MxC^2 but that's the association that stuck. And again no, you illustration is not helpful. Terry stops could net a truckload of Schedule II drug possession arrests in the Financial District every day, but there?s a powerful double-standard in place that would never let it happen. It's not hard to spot a coked-up asshole, whether he's wearing a suit or not.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 19:11
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Nah, that involves compromise and courting the lowest common denominator. I'm bad at both of those things.
I don't have all the answers, and never claim to. I think by adding rationale and logical thought to discussions, I help us all get to the answers. I could be wrong, but it's fun either way. Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/14 18:37
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Just can't stay away
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Since you have all the answers have you considered running for office?
Posted on: 2013/8/14 18:33
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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No, sir, that's not how it works. You don't just take quotes out of context, and bend them to make them fir your narrative. The person previously quoted Ben Franklin to gain validity behind his/her argument, and it's not valid, and neither is that person's argument.
You can disagree with the concept of stop and frisk, but don't use and invalid argument to support your opinion. People keep quoting that minorities are disproportionately targeted by this technique...but if, in a given neighborhood, minorities are responsible for a disproportionate amount of gun violence and gun crimes...how is that disproportionate? Here's a helpful illustration, taking race out of the equation (since most people have difficulty debating a topic rationally when race is involved). If people driving motorcycles were causing most of the accidents in a town, wouldn't it make sense for police to start watching motorcyclists a little closer? Quote:
Posted on: 2013/8/14 18:11
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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Yeah yeah, everybody knows a guy who?s the first to say, ?Well, actually,? no matter the topic, but whatever Bonhomme Richard meant, the popular meaning holds water. Sure it?s good to be historically accurate, but the point is the point.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 17:48
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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I think it can work, don't own a gun and voted for Obama 2x.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 16:51
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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My point is what it is, you all like stop and frisk until it happens to you. Just plain dumb, thank gd it wont come here. Now I am moving on to smarter threads. Good day.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 16:45
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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User1111 - why veil your own racism, and instead just say "Typical white people complaining we don't frisk enough black people". Would have been a more honest response.
Either way, your post paints quite a broad brush as Dahood said. I'm not a gun owner either.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 16:31
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Re: Jersey City leaders cheer federal judge's finding that "stop and frisk" violates Constitution
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User1111, you are an idiot. Don't paint everyone with the same brush. I support stop and frisk and I am a minority who does not own a gun.
Posted on: 2013/8/14 16:23
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