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Re: More Traffic for Downtown
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Mouse wrote:
I think those advocating the road extension are missing an important factor: quality of life.

Open space is being removed from Liberty State Park (LSP). Where we once had a "Great Lawn" now sits a marina. We have had the addition of a golf course. There is development impinging on LSP from all sides.


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The marina is in the water, the great lawn is on land? How did the marina affect the lawn, aside from the western-most end where boats are stored? Is your problem with the restaurant on the Great Lawn, which helps draw thousands of people each year to the park?

There was once a marina in the Morris Canal at the foot of Marin after the canal's closure and prior to the area becoming a State park. A great lawn there was not. So if anything, the marina is a restoration to how things once were, much like the CRRNJ Terminal.

Maybe you didn't read the thread, but Liberty State Park is not what's in question here. In fact, the proposed road is just outside of the park's boundaries, which is why the city is proposing the construction of the road and not the State DOT.




Yes, the land where we once had a "great lawn" is now a dry dock, offices, machinery and restaurant. A once glorious bit of urban parkland got plowed under ("they paved paradise and put up a parking lot"). This all got developed -- not for people but for commercial interests.

The lawn was once used for open air concerts, or simply lounging and provided a nice respite amidst the noise and chaos.

This is now long gone and it is now a struggle for every patch of earth, tree, and quiet.

And, while the footbridge is not technically within the boundaries of LSP, it is the gateway and the start of the urban 'oasis.' The idea of putting a highway right through here is just disturbing. But, hey, at this point we might as well give up and just make the whole of Liberty State Park one big parking lot.






Posted on: 2013/4/8 17:41
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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There was work going on at the NW end of the creek this weekend. Land around that area was leveled and a crew with a backhoe appeared to be working on the banks.

Posted on: 2013/4/8 14:11
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Re: More Traffic for Downtown
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Mouse wrote:
I think those advocating the road extension are missing an important factor: quality of life.

Open space is being removed from Liberty State Park (LSP). Where we once had a "Great Lawn" now sits a marina. We have had the addition of a golf course. There is development impinging on LSP from all sides.


The marina is in the water, the great lawn is on land? How did the marina affect the lawn, aside from the western-most end where boats are stored? Is your problem with the restaurant on the Great Lawn, which helps draw thousands of people each year to the park?

There was once a marina in the Morris Canal at the foot of Marin after the canal's closure and prior to the area becoming a State park. A great lawn there was not. So if anything, the marina is a restoration to how things once were, much like the CRRNJ Terminal.

Quote:
I really hope we get the footbridge re-built and keep LSP as-is ..... It is important that we retain what little of an oasis that still exists in LSP.


Maybe you didn't read the thread, but Liberty State Park is not what's in question here. In fact, the proposed road is just outside of the park's boundaries, which is why the city is proposing the construction of the road and not the State DOT.



Posted on: 2013/3/27 19:41
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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They've been trucking those slabs in for weeks. I thought they might be for a bridge at first, but I've seen dozens come and go (I guess to whatever is at the end of Bright St).

Posted on: 2013/3/27 13:03
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I quote this simply to repeat it. Very well put.

Quote:

Mouse wrote:
I think those advocating the road extension are missing an important factor: quality of life.

Open space is being removed from Liberty State Park (LSP). Where we once had a "Great Lawn" now sits a marina. We have had the addition of a golf course. There is development impinging on LSP from all sides.

I really hope we get the footbridge re-built and keep LSP as-is. We have plenty of roads and traffic and pollution in the area. We have the Turnpike and we have the Holland Tunnel, and we have more traffic than is healthy. Isn't this enough chaos?

It is important that we retain what little of an oasis that still exists in LSP.


Posted on: 2013/3/27 12:51
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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I believe those are for a building/structure that's going up on Cornelison Ave., at the base of the Beacon complex. I saw them and thought the same thing, until I passed this new structure and saw the exact pre-fab slabs piled one on top of the other in the form of a possible parking structure (?). If you want to see, it's at the corner of Bright and Cornelison.

Posted on: 2013/3/27 12:23
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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As of today there are about 6 massive, flat precast concrete structures sitting at the end of Jersey Ave near the water. Looked like they could be for a roadway spanning the canal.

Posted on: 2013/3/26 23:10
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Re: More Traffic for Downtown
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I think those advocating the road extension are missing an important factor: quality of life.

Open space is being removed from Liberty State Park (LSP). Where we once had a "Great Lawn" now sits a marina. We have had the addition of a golf course. There is development impinging on LSP from all sides.

I really hope we get the footbridge re-built and keep LSP as-is. We have plenty of roads and traffic and pollution in the area. We have the Turnpike and we have the Holland Tunnel, and we have more traffic than is healthy. Isn't this enough chaos?

It is important that we retain what little of an oasis that still exists in LSP.



Posted on: 2013/3/25 18:28
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Re: More Traffic for Downtown
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jmiz wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

jmiz wrote:
For every percentage of extra road, you get that much extra percentage of vehicles on the road. Now, what percentage would a 100 foot road extension be compared to the total amount of roads in Jersey City? What percentage of vehicles would this tiny extension add? If we go by the statistics in the article you quoted, that number is next to insignificant.

There's a huge difference between adding additional or widening existing roads and connecting existing roads.


Sorry, but I think you're being deliberately dense. The statement was illustrating a minimum, not a maximum. A bridge is in a different category. If you opened a new bridge from NJ to Manhattan, do you really believe the traffic would only increase as a proportion of that bridge's road surface to all of NYC's roads?


If I'm being dense, you're being equally outlandish by comparing a road extension between a park and a downtown neighborhood with a massive multi-billion dollar capital project between two states.

And, just to humor you, when the Lincoln Tunnel added its 2nd and 3rd tunnel, it did not double the amount of vehicular traffic through the tunnels over night or even over the course of a year! (See tunnel statistics to see how long it took to DOUBLE the traffic) It instead eased congestion on the single existing (and then two existing) tunnels and actually made it easier to get across the river! Imagine that, increased roadway capacity helps ease traffic congestion!



this isn't just a road extension, it's an entirely new route from the turnpike to the tunnel. if you think this isn't going to be a disaster for downtown, I'd like to take a vacation in your noggin for awhile. sounds peaceful in there.

I really really hope your (as yet disproven) theory holds true, but fear that time will show us otherwise.

Posted on: 2013/3/25 18:20
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

jmiz wrote:
For every percentage of extra road, you get that much extra percentage of vehicles on the road. Now, what percentage would a 100 foot road extension be compared to the total amount of roads in Jersey City? What percentage of vehicles would this tiny extension add? If we go by the statistics in the article you quoted, that number is next to insignificant.

There's a huge difference between adding additional or widening existing roads and connecting existing roads.


Sorry, but I think you're being deliberately dense. The statement was illustrating a minimum, not a maximum. A bridge is in a different category. If you opened a new bridge from NJ to Manhattan, do you really believe the traffic would only increase as a proportion of that bridge's road surface to all of NYC's roads?


If I'm being dense, you're being equally outlandish by comparing a road extension between a park and a downtown neighborhood with a massive multi-billion dollar capital project between two states.

And, just to humor you, when the Lincoln Tunnel added its 2nd and 3rd tunnel, it did not double the amount of vehicular traffic through the tunnels over night or even over the course of a year! (See tunnel statistics to see how long it took to DOUBLE the traffic) It instead eased congestion on the single existing (and then two existing) tunnels and actually made it easier to get across the river! Imagine that, increased roadway capacity helps ease traffic congestion!


Posted on: 2013/3/25 18:12
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jmiz wrote:
For every percentage of extra road, you get that much extra percentage of vehicles on the road. Now, what percentage would a 100 foot road extension be compared to the total amount of roads in Jersey City? What percentage of vehicles would this tiny extension add? If we go by the statistics in the article you quoted, that number is next to insignificant.

There's a huge difference between adding additional or widening existing roads and connecting existing roads.


Sorry, but I think you're being deliberately dense. The statement was illustrating a minimum, not a maximum. A bridge is in a different category. If you opened a new bridge from NJ to Manhattan, do you really believe the traffic would only increase as a proportion of that bridge's road surface to all of NYC's roads?

Posted on: 2013/3/25 17:15
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JCbiscuit wrote:
studies show that Brewster has a point, and more / wider roads actually increase traffic:

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/09/1377087 ... -pave-way-to-more-traffic


You're absolutely correct. Now let's see what the article says:
Quote:
"What we found was that in cities where there was more roads, there was more driving," economist Matthew Turner, a co-author of the study, tells weekends on All Things Considered host Guy Raz. "In particular, if you had 1 percent more roads, you had 1 percent more driving in those cities."


For every percentage of extra road, you get that much extra percentage of vehicles on the road. Now, what percentage would a 100 foot road extension be compared to the total amount of roads in Jersey City? What percentage of vehicles would this tiny extension add? If we go by the statistics in the article you quoted, that number is next to insignificant.

There's a huge difference between adding additional or widening existing roads and connecting existing roads.

Posted on: 2013/3/25 17:02
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JCbiscuit wrote:
studies show that Brewster has a point, and more / wider roads actually increase traffic:

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/09/1377087 ... -pave-way-to-more-traffic


This road was supposed to be two lanes - one in each direction. Has that changed?

Posted on: 2013/3/25 17:01
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studies show that Brewster has a point, and more / wider roads actually increase traffic:

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/09/1377087 ... -pave-way-to-more-traffic

Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

jmiz wrote:
The extension would relieve unnecessary traffic on BL streets by removing that neighborhood from the equation. The quote does NOT say those 5000 vehicles will be "added" to DTJC. Those 5000 cars are already directed in to DTJC at the one-way right hand turn at the end of Pacific and on to Grand.


That's a quaint belief you have that everyone that currently uses Pacific will change to Jersey and not be replaced by new drivers looking to avoid sitting for an hour on the ramp to 14th. Unless there was a plan to block off Johnson that I missed.

So to answer your question, it increases the traffic to Downtown by creating another inlet, rather than a replacement inlet as you believe. This is not a zero sum game, there will always be more commuters weighing whether it's worth it to drive, and which route is least painful. Make a new route, and it will fill to the point of diminishing returns. Every time.

What's left out of the debate is the real sponsors of this road...developers of course. the developers of LHN & of the Jersey corridor south of Grand want easy and "unscary" access to the park as a selling point.

Posted on: 2013/3/25 16:14
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I swung by the park this weekend. No progress on replacing the stinky bridge (pedestrian). More of the park is open to the public than previously, but they still have a lot of work ahead of them. The amount of goose poop in the fields is ridiculous. I am guessing the geese police weren't there over the winter. Hopefully things will pickup when the weather finally gets better.

Posted on: 2013/3/25 14:11
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jmiz wrote:
The extension would relieve unnecessary traffic on BL streets by removing that neighborhood from the equation. The quote does NOT say those 5000 vehicles will be "added" to DTJC. Those 5000 cars are already directed in to DTJC at the one-way right hand turn at the end of Pacific and on to Grand.


That's a quaint belief you have that everyone that currently uses Pacific will change to Jersey and not be replaced by new drivers looking to avoid sitting for an hour on the ramp to 14th. Unless there was a plan to block off Johnson that I missed.

So to answer your question, it increases the traffic to Downtown by creating another inlet, rather than a replacement inlet as you believe. This is not a zero sum game, there will always be more commuters weighing whether it's worth it to drive, and which route is least painful. Make a new route, and it will fill to the point of diminishing returns. Every time.

What's left out of the debate is the real sponsors of this road...developers of course. the developers of LHN & of the Jersey corridor south of Grand want easy and "unscary" access to the park as a selling point.

Posted on: 2013/3/23 18:37
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GrovePath wrote:
As Brewster pointed out.. this will just increase the number of NYC commuters who try getting off at Exit 14B

Quote:

brewster wrote:

...Anyone who pays attention to traffic issues knows this will never work. When you relieve pressure at one point in a system with vast demand, the demand will always fill the void as people choose to take a route that now offers less friction...


So the commuters who normally sit in the Turnpike Extension traffic to the Holland Tunnel are going to change their driving habits and begin to get off at 14B, wade through a traffic circle, traffic lights, and multiple turns to take advantage of a half-mile shortcut? I find that extremely hard to believe.

Why aren't these NYC commuters taking their shortcut at the CC BLVD exit where they spend more time at highway speeds, encounter fewer traffic lights and have to make fewer turns? That's right -- they already are -- adding a shortcut through Jersey Ave is irrelevant. Almost as irrelevant to downtown traffic as a street extension off of exit 14A.


The quote that brewster used completely refutes the point that he's trying to make:

Quote:
"The main thrust of this effort is to relieve the Bergen Lafayette neighborhood of 5000 vehicular trips made daily by motorists which must travel through local streets to reach their destinations."


The extension would relieve unnecessary traffic on BL streets by removing that neighborhood from the equation. The quote does NOT say those 5000 vehicles will be "added" to DTJC. Those 5000 cars are already directed in to DTJC at the one-way right hand turn at the end of Pacific and on to Grand.

Posted on: 2013/3/23 17:38
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As Brewster pointed out.. this will just increase the number of NYC commuters who try getting off at Exit 14B

Quote:

brewster wrote:

...Anyone who pays attention to traffic issues knows this will never work. When you relieve pressure at one point in a system with vast demand, the demand will always fill the void as people choose to take a route that now offers less friction...

Posted on: 2013/3/23 16:21
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brewster wrote:

...The explicit purpose of this bridge is to divert rush traffic to Downtown, as noted in the JCRA study "The main thrust of this effort is to relieve the Bergen Lafayette neighborhood of 5000 vehicular trips made daily by motorists which must travel through local streets to reach their destinations." So the idea is to get all the people who leave the tpk at exit 14B to get around the traffic at 14C to use Jersey instead of Pacific to get to Downtown and the Tunnel.


Ok, I'll bite.

Please explain this very simple scenario:

1.) Cars taking 14B to the Holland Tunnel through BL, current scenario.
2.) Cars taking 14B to the Holland Tunnel through Jersey Ave Extension, future scenario.

Explain how traffic will be worse on downtown roads when you're explicitly noting that these cars are ultimately taking downtown roads to the Holland Tunnel?

Do you have a problem with an increase in traffic downtown or a more apparent flow of traffic downtown?

Right now, once cars heading to the Holland Tunnel turn off Pacific (BL Neighborhood) and on to Grand (DTJC Neighborhood), what roads do you think they're taking? Jersey / CC BLVD / Marin? Do you think this is going to change once the extension is built? These cars are taking the same roads through downtown, with or without a Jersey Ave extension. Again, please explain how this INCREASES the amount of traffic on downtown streets.

Are cars on Pacific out-of-sight-out-of-mind while cars on Jersey are the worst thing for DTJC?

I still have yet to see one poster show how this will cause more traffic downtown. If any commuter wants to take a shortcut through DTJC, they're going to drive through the toll at 14C and take the CC BLVD exit instead of winding their way through traffic circles, traffic lights and the industrial section behind Liberty State Park at 14B.

We live next to some of the busiest automobile corridors in the country that is the Turnpike Extension / Holland Tunnel and the Pulaski Skyway / 1&9. Yet, the Jersey Ave extension is the road that's going to break the camel's back.

If traffic actually was worse for the whole 2 hours each weekday morning, wouldn't that be a fair trade for increased access to Liberty State Park?

Posted on: 2013/3/23 15:57
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This would be very bad for Downtown!

Quote:

brewster wrote:

...The explicit purpose of this bridge is to divert rush traffic to Downtown, as noted in the JCRA study "The main thrust of this effort is to relieve the Bergen Lafayette neighborhood of 5000 vehicular trips made daily by motorists which must travel through local streets to reach their destinations." So the idea is to get all the people who leave the tpk at exit 14B to get around the traffic at 14C to use Jersey instead of Pacific to get to Downtown and the Tunnel.

Anyone who pays attention to traffic issues knows this will never work. When you relieve pressure at one point in a system with vast demand, the demand will always fill the void as people choose to take a route that now offers less friction. You can lower the pressure in a bucket by adding another spigot, but not a dike on the ocean.

So the result will be that B-L will have the same traffic, that is to say bad to point it's barely worth the detour, while Downtown will have a big new flow onto local streets, entering at an already disastrous intersection of Jersey & Grand, that has a hospital and 2 schools, with several more nearby.

Posted on: 2013/3/23 15:39
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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Jersey City gets $500K federal grant to study extension of road into Liberty State Park

By Terrence T. McDonald/The Jersey Journal
on March 19, 2013 at 7:40 AM

Jersey City has won a $500,000 federal grant to study whether to extend Jersey Avenue over Mill Creek into Liberty State Park, part of $2.2 million awarded for capital projects statewide.

The proposed extension would give motorists a shortcut from Downtown Jersey City to Liberty State Park and the Liberty Science Center, as well as the New Jersey Turnpike. The project has been explored for as long as two decades, city officials have said.

?Vehicular and pedestrian access to Liberty State Park is very limited and needs to be expanded,? Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy said in a statement.

?An attractive and environmentally sound new gateway to the park will encourage tourism, improve the quality of life for our residents, and provide emergency responders a far easier path to the area from Jersey City Medical Center.?

Healy sits on the North Jersey Transportation Planning Authority, a Newark-based agency that distributes federal transportation funding. The NJTPA awarded the $500,000 grant.

In 2011, the city applied for, but didn?t receive, an $18.4 million federal grant to fund creation of the Jersey Avenue extension. Currently, the roadway, which runs north and south through Downtown, ends just south of the Jersey City Medical Center.

A footbridge that crossed Mill Creek and connected to Philip Street in Liberty State Park was destroyed last year during Hurricane Sandy. The proposed extension would run parallel to the new footbridge, which city officials hope will be completed by Memorial Day.

http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index ... y_gets_500000_federa.html

Posted on: 2013/3/20 6:17
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traffic will be a nightmare on Jersey Ave. It's already bad and the commuters are the worst drivers.

It will only get worse. This is a big negative for the VVP area...

Manhattan has an organized system of traffic lights and crosswalk signals. JC does not at all. Pedestrians are lucky if the crosswalks even function.

Why should JC be screwed over so commuters from Summit can save 10 minutes on their commute? Thanks team Healy...

Posted on: 2013/3/15 0:30
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Re: More Traffic for Downtown
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user1111 wrote:
In most cities I ever lived in downtown traffic was always heavy, you will get use to it.


Yes, in the downtown area. Jersey City's "downtown" area in the true sense of the word consists of Exchange Place and Newport. Not Van Vorst Park.

It's just a coincidence that a part of town that happens to be "down the hill", hence "downtown", hundreds of years later includes a commercial downtown.

Posted on: 2013/3/14 23:03
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jmiz wrote:
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The concern is that driving commuters on the Turnpike during the inbound rush will exit the Turnpike at 14B or Liberty Science Center and take the proposed bridge and local streets as a shortcut to the Holland Tunnel.

Already there are a lot of drivers who take the Columbus Drive exit to do exactly that. The Academy Bus to Wall Street routinely does that.


We're saying the same thing using different words.

I asked how an additional route will increase traffic. By that, I mean to ask how traffic will increase DOWNTOWN when both the existing Pacific route and the new proposed Jersey Ave route all dump in to the same place -- Grand.

Whether cars cut through DTJC starting on Jersey or starting on Pacific is not going to increase or decrease the traffic on side streets in DTJC. Cars still have to traverse the same route downtown (likely Grand -> Marin or Grand -> Jersey - CCBLVD -> Marin), they will just now get a two block head start.



Your false presumption is that Grand and all it's branch points north are already at their max carrying capacity. The false presumption of the planners is that while correctly perceiving the choke point is in B-L, they then conclude that opening Jersey will lure the people from B-L rather than luring new people into that route.

Picture 2 lanes of cars in the morning backed up on Jersey south all the way to the light rail, causing blockages to the rail. Do you really thing people won't say "screw it" and make the left on Johnson?

Posted on: 2013/3/14 22:58
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First of all, Manhattan is a different animal and it is the region's commerce center. Brooklyn/Prospect Park is a better comparison. Yes, there are roads that go THROUGH Prospect Park because the park is smack dab in the middle of Brooklyn, and surrounded on all sides by dense population. Liberty State Park is surrounded by population on a maximum of 2 sides (one can argue that it is only 1, really), and there is no need for roads that traverse the park.

Also Prospect Park has been around a long time. My point was that this is 2013, and we should not be looking for ways to benefit vehicular traffic in this dense, very predestrian friendly city.

Lastly, my point was not even about roads going THROUGH parks. My point was that it's a silly concept to drive to any park, but particularly an urban park. I can understand if somebody is coming from out of town, but this bridge/roadway into LSP is not being billed as something that will cater to visitors/tourists.

Quote:

user1111 wrote:
Quote:

tommyc_37 wrote:
An additional roadway (from Downtown, no less, which is very accessible by foot via the coming soon footbridge) is a waste of money.

Driving to an urban park is also something that I find really silly.

Really? So the roadways through Central Park/ Prospect Park is a waste? Glad you are not a man in power.

Posted on: 2013/3/14 22:51
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Re: More Traffic for Downtown
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The concern is that driving commuters on the Turnpike during the inbound rush will exit the Turnpike at 14B or Liberty Science Center and take the proposed bridge and local streets as a shortcut to the Holland Tunnel.

Already there are a lot of drivers who take the Columbus Drive exit to do exactly that. The Academy Bus to Wall Street routinely does that.


We're saying the same thing using different words.

I asked how an additional route will increase traffic. By that, I mean to ask how traffic will increase DOWNTOWN when both the existing Pacific route and the new proposed Jersey Ave route all dump in to the same place -- Grand.

Whether cars cut through DTJC starting on Jersey or starting on Pacific is not going to increase or decrease the traffic on side streets in DTJC. Cars still have to traverse the same route downtown (likely Grand -> Marin or Grand -> Jersey - CCBLVD -> Marin), they will just now get a two block head start.

Cars that want to cut through are already doing so. Commuters who want to wade through side streets are already doing this. A bridge that eliminates two blocks from a morning commute is not going to make a drastic change in out-of-city driving habits to the Holland Tunnel.

Posted on: 2013/3/14 22:46
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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On_The_3rd wrote:
The last two weekends that I've gone it is still fenced off. If you cross the skate park and go left of the shipping container, you'll see several beaten paths where people have been cutting through the brush. If you skinny, you can probably walk along the fence line, but if you're with a bike like myself it easier to cut through the brush.



Why spend 18 million on a bridge when there's a perfectly good route that we could pave over and use right away?


Exactly. What a waste.

Posted on: 2013/3/14 22:36
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Re: OPEN JERSEY AVENUE TO LIBERTY STATE PARK!!
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user1111 wrote:
The footbridge connecting Jersey Avenue to Liberty State Park in Jersey City may be back up in time for Memorial Day, according to city officials.

The bridge, which was destroyed during Hurricane Sandy, may cost about $750,000 to replace, according to city Chief of Staff Rosemary McFadden. Federal disaster-relief funds should pay for 75 percent of the replacement costs, while the city is seeking grants or private funding sources for the remainder, McFadden writes in an email.

The news comes as officials at Liberty State Park, which was heavily damaged when Sandy devastated the region on Oct. 29, 2012, announced this week that another 139 acres of the state park were reopened on Jan. 29, bringing the total number of open acres 263. There are 600 upland acres in the park.

All of the roads, parking lots and most fields are open, but restrooms, playgrounds and parts of the walkway remain closed, according to the Friends of Liberty State Park website.

The city expects to put the footbridge work out to bid by the end of March, and hopes to have it replaced entirely by Memorial Day, or ?as soon as possible? after, according to McFadden.

The bridge will be located where the old bridge was, but there will be enhanced lighting, signs and safety provisions.

City officials do not know how old the bridge is. Friends of Liberty State Park President Sam Pesin said he believes the bridge was there when the park opened in 1976.

Liberty State Park attracts more then 5 million visitors annually.

750,000.00 really?


$750,000.00 is how much something in NJ costs after all the pilfering, bribing, skimming, favors, back door handshakes etc., etc.,

Posted on: 2013/3/14 22:36
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Re: More Traffic for Downtown
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In most cities I ever lived in downtown traffic was always heavy, you will get use to it.

Posted on: 2013/3/14 22:33
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Re: More Traffic for Downtown
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Maybe they should allow residents who have a JC resident pass to use the proposed extension and allow others to use the Columbus one. Not sure how to enforce this but the traffic passing through JC during rush hour is ludicrous and also dangerous for children/pedestrians.

Posted on: 2013/3/14 22:27
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