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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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ianmac47 wrote:
The city screwed up when they started messing around with the streets at the end of that exit ramp. Healy's administration has overseen the whole "shove as many cars downtown as possible" strategy. This is why Christopher Columbus was widened, trees cut, and the few pedestrian enhancement curb extensions removed -- to get more cars downtown.


There is another reason. Columbus is an evacuation route for downtown in the event of an emergency.

Posted on: 2012/5/10 0:27
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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JCbiscuit wrote:
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JCbiscuit wrote:
Another asshat tearing up Erie this morning; another collision at the corner of 1st Street.

(Related: another SUV with a police sticker parked in the red zone, making a bad-visibility-corner even worse.)


UPDATE: the offending police-owned SUV actually has a parking ticket on its windshield.


Like he'll actually have to pay it.


baby steps.

Posted on: 2012/5/8 20:14
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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JCbiscuit wrote:
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JCbiscuit wrote:
Another asshat tearing up Erie this morning; another collision at the corner of 1st Street.

(Related: another SUV with a police sticker parked in the red zone, making a bad-visibility-corner even worse.)


UPDATE: the offending police-owned SUV actually has a parking ticket on its windshield.


Like he'll actually have to pay it.

Posted on: 2012/5/8 18:40
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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JCbiscuit wrote:
Another asshat tearing up Erie this morning; another collision at the corner of 1st Street.

(Related: another SUV with a police sticker parked in the red zone, making a bad-visibility-corner even worse.)


UPDATE: the offending police-owned SUV actually has a parking ticket on its windshield.

Posted on: 2012/5/8 15:00
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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Another asshat tearing up Erie this morning; another collision at the corner of 1st Street.

(Related: another SUV with a police sticker parked in the red zone, making a bad-visibility-corner even worse.)

Posted on: 2012/5/8 13:06
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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I totally agree,
the reduction in traffic could mean bike and running lanes would be easier to accomodate.

as a result we could increase the public image of jerey city.
we are already one of the most walkable cities how about one of the best cities for bikers too

great publicity.

Posted on: 2012/4/26 18:23
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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ianmac47 wrote:
The only way to stop it is to make going from the Columbus Drive exit to the tunnel slower and more difficult than just sitting in traffic on the elevated approach.


The problem there is that by definition it involves turning our local roads into similar parking lots. It would take an enormous amount of "calming measures" to achieve that, which of course is the appeal of a toll based system to discourage the shortcut. But in the real world, incremental change by limiting turns during rush would be easily achievable and cheap, redesigning Columbus & Grand or implementing a new toll system expensive and unlikely. And if all the tunnel traffic from downtown was routed to Marin, no one would be speeding along there!


I think the big concern with preventing turns on Columbus is that it would actually help traffic down the road at a faster speed in two lanes; traffic would not wait in the left to make turns, thus allowing greater speeds to be achieved.

However, if Columbus had only one through lane with dedicated turn lanes, there would be room for bike lanes separated from traffic, and cars would be slowed substantially, reducing the incentive for drivers to get off the turnpike. Drivers trying to get to the waterfront offices could simply loop around to Grand Street, as originally intended.

Posted on: 2012/4/26 18:18
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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I can see your concern,
nobody wants more traffic.
there are actually professionals who can do studies to predict the change in the flow of traffic.

But i dont really understand your comment.
How is creating a toll for people who circumevent the holland tunnel exit on 78 going to create more traffic.

People will stay on 78 and exit off the holland tunnel exit.
as the turnpike was designed to do.
Therefore creating less traffic.

the only thing we would see is more nice cars becuase those would be the only people who could afford the extra toll.

again i am not proposing residents or workers be tolled in any way.

Posted on: 2012/4/26 18:04
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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stillinjc wrote:
What prevents Jersey City from installing toll booths on Holland Tunnel feeder streets?

Call it an exit tax, if you will.

The Turnpike Authority (whatever the hell THAT is), and PA are screwing us with their traffic, so we might as well monetize.

I demand toll booths on all Jersey City Holland Tunnel feeder streets NOW!


Can you imagine the backups this would cause on the local streets? Plus all the traffic circulating to find a way around the toll? Everyone would be whining even more with all the additional traffic and air pollution. It would make the current traffic volume seem like we were out in the country.

Posted on: 2012/4/26 17:47
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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What prevents Jersey City from installing toll booths on Holland Tunnel feeder streets?

Call it an exit tax, if you will.

The Turnpike Authority (whatever the hell THAT is), and PA are screwing us with their traffic, so we might as well monetize.

I demand toll booths on all Jersey City Holland Tunnel feeder streets NOW!

Posted on: 2012/4/26 15:50
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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ianmac47 wrote:
The only way to stop it is to make going from the Columbus Drive exit to the tunnel slower and more difficult than just sitting in traffic on the elevated approach.


The problem there is that by definition it involves turning our local roads into similar parking lots. It would take an enormous amount of "calming measures" to achieve that, which of course is the appeal of a toll based system to discourage the shortcut. But in the real world, incremental change by limiting turns during rush would be easily achievable and cheap, redesigning Columbus & Grand or implementing a new toll system expensive and unlikely. And if all the tunnel traffic from downtown was routed to Marin, no one would be speeding along there!

Posted on: 2012/4/26 15:39
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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No you did not read the thread right.
we are talking about a way to toll the non resident and non working people who decide to cicumvent Holland Tunnel Traffic.

to clarify by no means am i talking about tolling people who live or work in Jersye city.

I already pay pleant of tolls.

Posted on: 2012/4/26 13:35
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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brewster wrote:
What about signs forbidding the key turns to the tunnel at rush hr? I've seen this on Secaucus Rd going up from Tonnelle to JFK, there's signs forbidding turns onto local roads during rush. Make it no lefts onto Monmouth, Jersey or Barrow from Columbus 7-10am, and you've added some friction without screwing up the neighborhood traffic for the other 21 hrs of the day. It still might take doing it at more corners like the same streets at Grand, but this would be much easier than redesigning or reversing roads.


That doesn't solve the problem of traffic on Marin, which is both considerable and travels too fast. Plus going forward as more housing is built up on either side of Marin, the pedestrian traffic will increase.

The only way to stop it is to make going from the Columbus Drive exit to the tunnel slower and more difficult than just sitting in traffic on the elevated approach.

Or maybe going back to the ban on single occupancy vehicles. Lifting that had some serious consequences across the region. At the time I was not living in Jersey City, and commuting north on the turnpike. The week they lifted that ban, traffic started backing up from Exit 14 onto both the car and truck lanes on the turnpike, and continued that way ever since. People can complain about HOV mandates and higher tolls, but that is the only way to reduce traffic.

Posted on: 2012/4/26 5:29
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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ianmac47 wrote:
The city screwed up when they started messing around with the streets at the end of that exit ramp.


The final configuration at the end of the ramp was mandated, designed and implemented by the NJ Department of Transportation. City Hall had nothing to do with it.


I was primarily talking about Columbus Drive. However, the intersection of Montgomery and Columbus and the ramp, while a state road, would not have been reconfigured without local input, and under Democratic governors, without implicit approval.

Posted on: 2012/4/26 5:26
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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ianmac47 wrote:
The city screwed up when they started messing around with the streets at the end of that exit ramp.


The final configuration at the end of the ramp was mandated, designed and implemented by the NJ Department of Transportation. City Hall had nothing to do with it.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 23:56
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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Wow. Did I read some of the posts right? Some of you want tolls? Why? So then you can complain about the high costs? Sheesh!

Posted on: 2012/4/25 23:28
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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Roslyn wrote:
Brewster, I think that is the best solution in regards to aleviating the traffic through van vorst and Hamilton park areas.

But what about the main culprit columbus and the left onto Marin.


I guess I was thinking Marin is a main artery, not the smaller local streets we want to keep them off of. But sure, Marin too! Unfortunately this plan requires JCPD enforcement. But I've got to hand to the cop who's got the afternoon shift in the unmarked can at Grove & 9th, he's been hand out a ticket every single time I go past there, and some days running the kids around I do it 3 times in 2 hrs.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 23:23
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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Brewster, I think that is the best solution in regards to aleviating the traffic through van vorst and Hamilton park areas.

But what about the main culprit columbus and the left onto Marin.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 20:07
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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What about signs forbidding the key turns to the tunnel at rush hr? I've seen this on Secaucus Rd going up from Tonnelle to JFK, there's signs forbidding turns onto local roads during rush. Make it no lefts onto Monmouth, Jersey or Barrow from Columbus 7-10am, and you've added some friction without screwing up the neighborhood traffic for the other 21 hrs of the day. It still might take doing it at more corners like the same streets at Grand, but this would be much easier than redesigning or reversing roads.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 19:47
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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The city screwed up when they started messing around with the streets at the end of that exit ramp. Healy's administration has overseen the whole "shove as many cars downtown as possible" strategy. This is why Christopher Columbus was widened, trees cut, and the few pedestrian enhancement curb extensions removed -- to get more cars downtown.

The exit ramp is certainly more efficient now, but really only to the benefit of people cutting through the downtown. If Healy gets another go 'round you can be he'll push to follow through and turn Christopher Columbus into a six lane freeway.

If you really want to address the problem of cars sneaking off the turnpike, the best thing to do would be shrink Columbus drive down to one through lane with dedicated turn lanes at the lights and planters in the middle of the block; replicate that at Marin North of Second street, and add better traffic lights there. Also it would help if there were fewer parking decks for cars to park.

However, until there is a progressive administration with policy wonks educated in the last two decades, there will be no positive change for traffic or pedestrian safety.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 18:55
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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I know many friends from the burbs who cut through downtown Jersey City any time there is traffic to the Tunnel. I did it myself before I moved here, and that's part of how I came to live in Jersey City.

It's way too easy to go through Jersey City. Alternating one-way streets and an additional toll at Columbus for EVERYBODY... 8$ for cars, $50 for buses would be a step in the right direction.

Converting traffic lanes to bike lanes would also help.

We should do everything we can to discourage cut-throughs. It's a major health and safety concern for all Jersey City residents.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 18:51
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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We dont need more tolls, just need some speed breakers.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 18:47
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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If the police actually did something, then maybe the speeding and traffic wouldn't be so bad. But since the cops in this town are completely useless, you either get used to it, or move.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 18:18
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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Eerie st in the morning is absolute mayhem! Last week a professionally dressed lady rearended another car. As I was walking by I heard her on the phone with a friend/husband etc.. and she said she was just rushing to beat the tunnel rush. That street is in a very residential community with children and families. Some of the people driving on that street go upwards of 50 mph just to slam on there brakes around 7th st. Maybe reversing the direction of the one way is not such a bad idea...

Posted on: 2012/4/25 17:17
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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If Erie Street became one way going in the opposite direction at 6th street - so drivers can't whiz down it for twelve blocks without having to turn - I bet you'd see a decrease in a.m. out-of-towner tunnel traffic. Would be mildly annoying for locals, but totally worth it.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 16:54
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Re: Toll at Exit 14C
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Crazy_Chester wrote:
I doubt a lot of people are getting off before 14C and driving through downtown as an alternate entrance to the tunnel to save time or 30 cents.


and there you would be wrong. Erie Street in the a.m. rush hour is way too jammed to just be locals heading to work. it's grown steadily worse in recent years, as GPS sales increase.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 16:50
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Re: Toll at Exit 14B
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I would agree. For now we need more traffic calming on the routes to the tunnel. More stop signs along Monmouth and Erie Sts. Stoplights along Marin.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 16:31
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Re: Toll at Exit 14B
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Implementing a toll may be too difficult to do. Like many others I believe that the best solution is to calm the traffic. More STOP signs, lights etc with speed bumps and enforcement of laws at pedestrian crosswalks. Right now it's relatively easy to cut through DTJC because traffic laws are not being enforced. Marin Blvd is like a speedway at all hours of the day. The JCPD has stepped up enforcement but it needs to be a constant thing. The only other solution is to completely close any local entrances to the Tunnel. That, of course, would bone many of us who sometimes need to use the Tunnel and who live downtown.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 16:10
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Re: Toll at Exit 14B
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Roslyn wrote:
Its not unfeasible,
maybe a little compplicated.
and the revenue it would produce would pay for itself.

If you live downtown, during rush hour you can see backup blocks long at traffic lights going towards the tunnel.

This is something to think about for whoever can consider this. the revenue could go towards more trash cleanup, more police etc in the downtown neighborhoods.


I've been saying the exact same thing for years. The technology exists, particularly for 14B which already has a toll plaza, to know where a person going through the tunnel got off the tpk. Even if it was plate recognition based rather than EZPASS, there should be a steep fee or even fine for using the tunnel within say, 1 hr, of exiting at 14B or Grand. But it would require the cooperation of both the Tpk authority and the PA, neither of whom could give a crap about JC's problems, the PA won't even ticket for gridlock on 12th & 14th.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 16:08
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Re: Toll at Exit 14B
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Its not unfeasible,
maybe a little compplicated.
and the revenue it would produce would pay for itself.

If you live downtown, during rush hour you can see backup blocks long at traffic lights going towards the tunnel.

This is something to think about for whoever can consider this. the revenue could go towards more trash cleanup, more police etc in the downtown neighborhoods.

Posted on: 2012/4/25 15:48
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