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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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As others have previously stated- I am also an avid park user- we're talking EVERY day- biking and running the waterfont where i have seen this behemoth try to come to life. At first, I was remorse that it was to happen after the SUPREME efforts of LSP Pres Sam Pesin and other concerned citizens were ignored in their legal pleas to do things as the people might have wanted. I know as a Jersey City resident- there was no asking what we thought.... But, as I watched it progress- I hoped that maybe , just maybe it would redeem itself in some way- be effective enough to warrant blocking the view of where it specifically happened (the most potent visual memorial).
Regardless- REALLY? As I see it come to completion- I wonder : maybe the overhead architectural rendering looks good on bristol board- but WOW- when you see this from reality- view-sapping cement horizontal hulk- you gotta say again: REALLY? As I pedal or run by, many passers by point and say:what is that? And I always say "the 911 Memorial, Empty Sky". The response is always the same: EMPTY STARES.... and then I point to where the planes hit- and guess what- that is where people choose to look and reflect.
hey- thanks for taking more precious LSP land away from the innate natural beauty that is Liberty State Park and adding something that seems quite alien and unecessary to the one of a kind union with the Hudson River.

Posted on: 2011/8/22 0:32
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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TheBigGuy wrote:
Just came back from another bike ride at LSP; riding by the tombstones it suddenly occured to me that the bare concrete walls would be great for large screen TVs that could scroll Budweiser / NJ Lottery ads / Jersey Shore-Jersey/Mob Wives commercials


give it time.

Posted on: 2011/8/21 22:21
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Just came back from another bike ride at LSP; riding by the tombstones it suddenly occured to me that the bare concrete walls would be great for large screen TVs that could scroll Budweiser / NJ Lottery ads / Jersey Shore-Jersey/Mob Wives commercials

Posted on: 2011/8/20 19:32
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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With all the millions donated and the years of generated interest, just where has all the money gone ?

We need a through investigative audit done on all the money and how it was spent - were there any quotes for services etc and who won the contracts ?

There jersey city side of the Hudson, has a history of mud!

Posted on: 2011/8/20 11:36
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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TheBigGuy wrote:
Actually from the hiding something point if view??? Maybe someone is trying to put the trees there to hide it ... but eventually when they do grow big enough, the memorial commitee will chop them down because they are impeding the natural light reflecting off the monument...


the original design called for stainless steel on every surface. then the price of steel went up, and somehow the millions and millions of dollars sunk into this monstrosity couldn't cover the cost, so it's going to remain a concrete barricade. there will be no reflecting of any kind going on in that corner of the park.

Posted on: 2011/8/20 6:18
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Another random thought... we could be looking at the world's first "naturally green" and largest convection oven! After the hot days we had this summer, can you imagine how hot it will be inside that thing???

Can't wait to bake my potatoes in it.... could even start to pop corn for the Elllis Island SOL tourists to take on the boat. .

Posted on: 2011/8/20 5:16
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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Actually from the hiding something point if view??? Maybe someone is trying to put the trees there to hide it ... but eventually when they do grow big enough, the memorial commitee will chop them down because they are impeding the natural light reflecting off the monument...

Posted on: 2011/8/20 5:06
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyli
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I look forward to the day in the future when I can tell my friends ? ?and over there in that shady grove of trees is where those idiots built that stupid artificial hill and ugly cement trench. Thank goodness they tore it down less than a year after it was completed, when it became clear to even the people that once wanted it that it was a really stupid idea?.

Posted on: 2011/8/19 23:33
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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CatDog wrote:
they wouldn't be there without the monument, it takes years and years for trees to get that tall, and either way, a group of trees isn't a solid concrete wall. You can see stuff through trees.


I think some of the trees along the water would be there without the monument. I could be wrong, but I thought the park was putting in more trees generally, which I think is great for that currently windswept space.

You can see through trees to a degree, though once they get big, you sure won't have the kind of totally unobstructed views you had 10 years ago from ground level. At least, not in the warmer months when they're in leaf--the same months when most people visit the park.

And sure, it takes years for trees to grow to full size, but long-range planning is good, right? Landscaped projects usually look crappy before the landscaping grows in, but they get better with time.

As I said, I don't love it. But I think in time we'll look at that area as "the part of the park with the nice trees and that old sculpture in there somewhere."

Posted on: 2011/8/19 16:09
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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intresting observation about the trees... noticed them when I rode by, the marina has simlar trees, think they were part of some other plan not connected to that project? Surprised?"

Posted on: 2011/8/19 3:52
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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they wouldn't be there without the monument, it takes years and years for trees to get that tall, and either way, a group of trees isn't a solid concrete wall. You can see stuff through trees.

Posted on: 2011/8/18 21:28
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I'm not thrilled about this thing, especially given the cost-cutting shortcuts taken.

But as far as blocking views of the old railroad terminal, the NYC skyline, etc., and creating its own localized ugliness: Aren't all those young dogwood (or whatever) trees (the ones next to it and the ones all around the seawall to the east and north by the marina) going to make that all moot fairly soon? Isn't the whole area near the monument going to be full of adult trees, blocking ground-level and low-level views of all the above?

Posted on: 2011/8/18 19:04
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Can it be any other day than 9.11.11?

Posted on: 2011/8/18 12:58
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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does anyone know when they plan to hold the ribbon-cutting for this train wreck?

I'd love to be present to hear its supporters defend it.

oh wait. the supporters don't live in Jersey City.

Posted on: 2011/8/18 7:47
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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This is a quote from their web-site regading this monumental mess - It looks to be updated to me:

"The brushed stainless steel twin walls are 210 feet long, the width of each side of the World Trade Center Towers. They rise 30 feet, standing parallel to each other with a 12-foot wide paved path of bluestone between them. The walls are a grid of 3/8 inch, marine-grade stainless steel plates, measuring 4 feet by 8 feet. Like the World Trade Center, the stainless steel reflects the constantly changing light of day. The memorial invites visitors to literally and metaphorically look toward the empty sky in memory and look forward as a community.

A gently sloped mound is channeled by a path that directs the sight line to Ground Zero, peeling back the earth to reveal this powerful perspective. A low, grassy berm softly rises to ten feet creating an amphitheater like incline that faces Lower Manhattan. Groves of dogwood trees will both buffer and beautify the site and in a cycle of strength and renewal, the dogwoods will distinctly reflect the changing seasons."

It's a travisty of public space design not to mention a cauldron of heat when you stroll through its stainless steel, sun reflecting walls. I bet you their "empty sky" design gets some sort of heat reflecting canopy at some point.

I encourage all who feel the same way to email them with your disaproval.

fschwartz@schwartzarch.com

TheBigGuy wrote:
I think, outside of landscaping, they have completed this "memorial" It appears that there is no plan cover the the the exterior of the two horizontal cement slabs... unless they plant tall bushes it looks unfinished... there are stainless steel panels with the names of the victims inscribed on the inside/ between the slabs... I thought they were going to cover the exterior with the same types of panels, guess not so the viewing perspective from most angles are two cement slabs buried into a mountain of dirt... looks very cheap and cheesy and if you have to explain the symbolism of the design to explain the memorial, seems like it was over thought??? Hard to believe this was the best they could do??[/quote]

Posted on: 2011/8/18 7:06
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I think, outside of landscaping, they have completed this "memorial" It appears that there is no plan cover the the the exterior of the two horizontal cement slabs... unless they plant tall bushes it looks unfinished... there are stainless steel panels with the names of the victims inscribed on the inside/ between the slabs... I thought they were going to cover the exterior with the same types of panels, guess not so the viewing perspective from most angles are two cement slabs buried into a mountain of dirt... looks very cheap and cheesy and if you have to explain the symbolism of the design to explain the memorial, seems like it was over thought??? Hard to believe this was the best they could do??

Posted on: 2011/8/18 2:56
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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brewster wrote:
I don't know about the Springsteen link, but Empty Sky is also the 1969 debut album of Elton John according to Wiki.


Springsteen's album "The Rising" was his own personal 9/11 memorial. There's a song on there called "Empty Sky." The so-called designers of "Empty Sky" have constructed another 9/11 landfill called "The Rising." They can't even come up with original names for their hacky projects.

Posted on: 2011/7/18 23:43
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I_heart_JC wrote: nice revision/addition! but I gotta nitpick my biggest grammatical pet peeve: you used "it's" when you should've used "its."
Is not (isn't) it proper to use an apostrophe for a contraction? It's= It is. "It is my first". My sentence was not a usage of the possessive form, "its". As in: its design sucks. Thanks though. I don't know about the Springsteen link, but Empty Sky is also the 1969 debut album of Elton John according to Wiki.
I think the sentence that I_heart_JC was referring to was this one. "From the first revealing of the design, the people and government of Jersey City, home of Liberty State Park, have opposed it's construction based on it's massive nature causing disruption of a beloved and much used public space." "its" is a bit of a ****-up in the English language since most possessive forms use the apostrophe. We probably should not be struggling to preserve ****-ups in the language. The apostrophe might disappear altogether with a bit of luck but as things stand the usage quoted above was not correct.

Posted on: 2011/7/18 20:43
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I_heart_JC wrote:
nice revision/addition! but I gotta nitpick my biggest grammatical pet peeve: you used "it's" when you should've used "its."

Is not (isn't) it proper to use an apostrophe for a contraction? It's= It is. "It is my first". My sentence was not a usage of the possessive form, "its". As in: its design sucks.

Thanks though. I don't know about the Springsteen link, but Empty Sky is also the 1969 debut album of Elton John according to Wiki.

Posted on: 2011/7/18 20:11
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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brewster wrote:
Any Wikipedia pros here? I just edited the Empty Sky page, which of course was empty of any hint of the opposition, clearly the creation of the architects. But it's my first, and I'm afraid my linking structure is poor.


nice revision/addition! but I gotta nitpick my biggest grammatical pet peeve: you used "it's" when you should've used "its." not as big a mistake as that ridiculous memorial, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empty_Sky_%289-11_memorial%29

also, this asshat architect has designed two dreadful 9/11 memorials, called "Empty Sky" and "The Rising," yet nowhere on their Wiki pages is there a nod to Bruce Springsteen, from whom Schwartz clearly ripped-off those names.

Posted on: 2011/7/18 18:38
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Any Wikipedia pros here? I just edited the Empty Sky page, which of course was empty of any hint of the opposition, clearly the creation of the architects. But it's my first, and I'm afraid my linking structure is poor.

Posted on: 2011/7/18 18:24
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Architects like the ilk of Frederic Schwartz need to make a statement. It's in thier DNA to design outlandish, thought provoking structures. Purely ego driven.

Here's a quote taken from their web-site about this 9/11 monument mess:

"A low, grassy berm softly rises to ten feet creating an amphitheater like incline that faces Lower Manhattan. Groves of dogwood trees will both buffer and beautify the site and in a cycle of strength and renewal, the dogwoods will distinctly reflect the changing seasons."

"Low, grassy burm?!

Love how they mention a 10 foot rise but conveniently leave out the hulking 30 foot walls.

Their design, even without all the dog wood trees tastefully arranged around the monument, is a monumental failure in outdoor public space design.

Sadly, Schwartz's design, "Empty Sky" was selected by unanimous vote by the Family and Survivors Memorial Committee, from 320 designs submitted with NO vote from the public. Total sham.

If you want to express you opinions drop them an email:

fschwartz@schwartzarch.com

Posted on: 2011/7/16 13:53
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I can understand why families who lost loved ones think in terms of a cemetary-style memorial for their lost loved ones. Loved ones we haven't been able to bury/lay to rest. The next best thing for them is a kind of cenotaph that marks their lot ones names on a common plot or wall.

To me we can and must do much better than this. Why not have an individual bench or remembrance stone in LSP for every single NJ 9-11 victim? Why not have their full story on that bench or memorial stone, not just their name? And why not supply facebook/wikipedia links on those benches/memorial stones to those that lost their lives, so that visitors could really remember the people that lost their lives, and not the dumbass architects that came up with a wall of names based on WWI and WWII designs.

Posted on: 2011/7/16 6:17
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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brewster wrote:
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rbnyfan wrote:
Art is inherently stupid. Art that blocks or detracts from the public's usage of land is a disgrace.

I hope this "art" gets vandalized constantly to the point where 1) they decide to stop fixing it, or 2) they decide to take it down.


Rarely happens even wth public art, never mind a supposed memorial. Look up the battle over "Tilted Arc", a Serra piece presciently resembling 9/11 wreckage that was ruining a plaza of the Federal Building facing Foley Square. Serra actually argued that he had a right to have it there in perpetuity.

Look familiar?
Resized Image


yes, but as was mentioned way upthread, the public outcry over the Serra monstrosity led to its eventual removal.

Posted on: 2011/7/15 23:08
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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81905 wrote:
I encourage you all to email the offices of Frederic Schwartz, the bone-headed architects who designed this disaster in public space design.

I can only assume the lead designer on this project completely forgot about all the great North and South views that would be forever altered. It's a damn shame.

fschwartz@schwartzarch.com


Views? there are other views than of lower Manhattan? The devil you say!! Why would anyone visit LSP other than to view their grand monster?

Posted on: 2011/7/15 22:24
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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I encourage you all to email the offices of Frederic Schwartz, the bone-headed architects who designed this disaster in public space design.

I can only assume the lead designer on this project completely forgot about all the great North and South views that would be forever altered. It's a damn shame.

fschwartz@schwartzarch.com

Posted on: 2011/7/15 22:08
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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rbnyfan wrote:
Art is inherently stupid. Art that blocks or detracts from the public's usage of land is a disgrace.

I hope this "art" gets vandalized constantly to the point where 1) they decide to stop fixing it, or 2) they decide to take it down.


Rarely happens even wth public art, never mind a supposed memorial. Look up the battle over "Tilted Arc", a Serra piece presciently resembling 9/11 wreckage that was ruining a plaza of the Federal Building facing Foley Square. Serra actually argued that he had a right to have it there in perpetuity.

Look familiar?
Resized Image

Posted on: 2011/7/15 22:05
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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Art is inherently stupid. Art that blocks or detracts from the public's usage of land is a disgrace.

I hope this "art" gets vandalized constantly to the point where 1) they decide to stop fixing it, or 2) they decide to take it down.

Posted on: 2011/7/15 21:40
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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CatDog wrote:
I'm going to build a gigantic penis-shaped statue in front of your house that blocks your view of everything. And you better not complain about it.


I hear they're going to have to move the giant vagina shaped statue on the Marine Ocean Terminal, maybe you can get it cheap.

Posted on: 2011/7/15 21:04
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Re: Please stop the huge 9/11 memorial at LSP - it will ruin the park's views of the Manhattan skyline!
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nightgownposse wrote:
Maybe if you cry about it more the memorial will disappear. To complain about this thing blocking the NYC skyline is the dumbest discussion ever. It's equivalent to complaining about a new tree that is planted because when you stand behind it, it blocks your view. Deal with it. But I guess that's what JClist is, a bunch of crybabies. Wannabe artists who wheat paste electrical sockets around town and work at Lucky 7's. Then complain about everything and anything on JClist all day waiting for their shift to start so they can serve Pabst to the new batch of dipsters.
I'm going to build a gigantic penis-shaped statue in front of your house that blocks your view of everything. And you better not complain about it.

Posted on: 2011/7/15 20:50
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