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Re: Vilification of public safety
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I've never had a latte. I just drink regular coffee. Yes, aside from dangerous situations involving physical danger you are correct. I think I tried to say this by bringing in my comment about shooting a gun. I just think that it was a very broad statement made and very insulting to everyone else that works very hard in their careers.

Posted on: 2010/7/31 15:37
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Bill463 wrote:
" Also, being a good cop is indeed a tough job at times and being good at it requires a level of diplomacy, restraint, and quick thinking most people don't have" - Jeebus. Really? Only good police officers have these job skills? Most other careers do not require these traits?? Really? Other than shooting a gun at people I do all of this each and every day at my job!


I'm starting to believe that what I hear about JC cops is true. They're a very unprofessional police force as a whole. I know they people running red lights. I can see that with my own eyes.

That being said, you couldn't be more wrong about your level of skills versus police skills. Your chatting with someone over a latte is little different than dealing with drunk and out of control people on a Saturday night. They say that a domestic dispute is one of the most dangerous calls a cop can respond to. The male and the female can both turn on an officer.

Posted on: 2010/7/31 15:31
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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" Also, being a good cop is indeed a tough job at times and being good at it requires a level of diplomacy, restraint, and quick thinking most people don't have" - Jeebus. Really? Only good police officers have these job skills? Most other careers do not require these traits?? Really? Other than shooting a gun at people I do all of this each and every day at my job!

Posted on: 2010/7/31 15:16
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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jc344 wrote:
Brewster, at what point did I say cops are underpaid? I also never said they shouldn't be criticized. What I said was to paraphrase was that when someone gives an opinion on a public forum such as Jerseyofficer did, and another poster responds by stating "most police officer's aren't that bright" and then you agree by stating "true" it gives your argument / opinion no creditability. Now you can twist my words or put whatever spin on this as you want, but that doesn't mean your right.
While it's true I didn't need to agree with the comment, I've heard for decades the apocryphal stories of candidates discouraged for being too bright for the job. But your whole focus has the "never disrespect the uniform" flavor that often leads to "disorderly conduct" arrests that end up costing the cities cash settlements[/quote]

Quote:
Incidentally you also stated that budget cuts are affecting the schools and teachers correct? if you compared the teacher's contract in Jersey City you'll see that their benefits are basically the same as police and firefighter's and there top salary is significantly higher then that of a police officer. Just the facts......
.
But the teachers employments and contracts are often on the table but the PD's are not. I'd also be surprised if their actual income is higher, overtime is considered so normal that officers complain if they get less of it.

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I forgot another fact that you eronneously stated in your previous post. The police don't bring in money to the City? Please explain where the fines from parking summons, moving violations, and City ordinance violations goes? just curious since you did state that the police aren't supposed to make money for the City.

That's completely irrelevant to my point. We don't expect the PD to pay their way with summonses, but income is the main reason for the Parking Authority's existence. In most places it's a cash cow, not a liability. They had to sell public parking lots to be able to pay their salaries! Can you imagine them not being able to issue the 1 summons every hour that would cover expenses?

Posted on: 2010/7/30 14:30
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Police aren't overpaid. If you pay them less it encourages them to be corrupt and accept bribes. Hopefully the higher salary makes it not necessary to listen to offers to do illegal actions.

Posted on: 2010/7/30 5:02
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Brewster, at what point did I say cops are underpaid? I also never said they shouldn't be criticized. What I said was to paraphrase was that when someone gives an opinion on a public forum such as Jerseyofficer did, and another poster responds by stating "most police officer's aren't that bright" and then you agree by stating "true" it gives your argument / opinion no creditability. Now you can twist my words or put whatever spin on this as you want, but that doesn't mean your right. Incidentally you also stated that budget cuts are affecting the schools and teachers correct? if you compared the teacher's contract in Jersey City you'll see that their benefits are basically the same as police and firefighter's and there top salary is significantly higher then that of a police officer. Just the facts.......I forgot another fact that you eronneously stated in your previous post. The police don't bring in money to the City? Please explain where the fines from parking summons, moving violations, and City ordinance violations goes? just curious since you did state that the police aren't supposed to make money for the City.

Posted on: 2010/7/30 3:26
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Jeebus, +2!

Metincome: yes, that's the traditional choice given, support them or you're on your own. I'm sure back in the day there was a 3rd option of getting the crap beat out of you or a brick through your window.

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Give me an org chart... and I betcha I will find a ton of bs no show jobs and overlap.
FG


You left out the overpromotions. There's a fire captain or higher for every 2 firemen. This likely means just about everybody is a captain at some point and gets the nicer retirement.

To again beat to death my favorite illustration of how #OOPS#ed up our city is, remember a few years back when the Parking Authority ran into the red? Imagine the no-shows and fake overtime it takes for an agency that can basically mint money to spend more on manpower than it takes in. The FD and PD and MUA aren't supposed to make money so we never see such obvious nonsense, but we can presume it's all there indeed.

Posted on: 2010/7/30 2:18
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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One other thing... I would really like to get a organizational chart (org chart) of the JCPD and the JCFD.

Heck... I would like one for all of Jersey City Gov't.

I went through the 2010 budget with a fine tooth comb... found tons of crap that could be cut. 2011 budget??? still not available.

Give me an org chart... and I betcha I will find a ton of bs no show jobs and overlap.

Please send me. just post here...

Thanks

FG

Posted on: 2010/7/30 1:57
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Jeebus +1... tell it like it is.

This morning, while walking to the Path train from Jersey Ave, I pass a JCPD cop car and inside is a sergeant (3 stripes), just kicken back in his car, reading the freaking paper.

Get outta the freaking car and start walking the beat...

I've never seen a cop on foot walking up or down Jersey Ave ever. Although a few years ago I saw a cop on a bicycle.

(Don't see them much anymore either).

Someone should declare the pension system bankrupt. Fire everybody, and then rehire anyone who wants a job.

Then, give em what is standard... 401Ks where they contribute their own money for their own retirement on a pre-tax basis.

I don't even have that... I'm now a freelancer/contractor... the private sector is moving in that direction... so should government.

The free ride is OVER folks. Unions will be the death of us all.

FG

Posted on: 2010/7/30 1:50
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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I'm of two minds on this. My father was a police officer and back then (40-20 years ago) the pay was meager, the hours were long (when he started he worked five 12 hour shifts a week), and the work environment was abusive (from the brass; never mind the public). Probably this is why he never encouraged me to follow in his footsteps. Also, being a cop is indeed a tough job at times and being good at it requires a level of diplomacy, restraint, and quick thinking that most people don't have.

On the other hand public service pay has exploded in recent years and even more so benefits have become so lavish that they are unsustainable. For people who have to fund their own retirement a good financial planner will tell them to count on an income that is 4% of what they have saved. So to expect a $50,000 a year income one would have to have saved $1.25 million dollars and many public servants are retiring around 50 with higher pensions (plus free health care). If the government(s) had to pre-fund this they would have to acknowledge that they are insolvent and even though they don't they are struggling to pay their current pension and health care obligations (never mind what is to come). As people in the private sector lose jobs and struggle, the capture of many state governments by public sector unions is a huge source of resentment and will ultimately not be sustainable.

Also, what the OP fails to acknowledge is that a lot of the "vilification" of cops is due to the cops who fail to perform their job and in most cases get away with it. For example, I was pulled over for no reason and verbally abused by a local cop when I was a kid until he read my driver's license and realized who my father was. This guy was a known problem and yet he kept his job until they got him to retire early (with his pension). My father is the most moral, generous and kind person that I know but if my only knowledge of cops came from this stop then I would hate them too.

Posted on: 2010/7/30 1:39
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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SICULO wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
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brewster wrote:
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JerseyOfficer wrote:
No one is arguing about being underpaid.


Your post says it half a dozen times.


You've exposed the real problem. Most cops just aren't that bright.


True, if they were they couldn't take the boredom of the job. It's really not as exciting as TV.

My favorite part of his response is the "you got problem with our pay, take the test". Classic aggressive response to the citizen who is his employer questioning his complaining about what he admits is adequate compensation. By that logic only other cops can question his pay package. Note, I didn't even say they're overpaid, all I said is stop the bitching.


The nxt time you have a bunch of thugs ready to pounce on you, dont call the cops, just call a few scholars........


So those are the only two options? Accept the cops compensation or don't call the cops?

Posted on: 2010/7/30 1:31
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Ever get the feeling that the Police have a persecution complex ? Why does everyone pick on us ? Waa waa waa.

The Police and Fire budgets are draining this City dry. And now that Christie is about to change the rules for payouts of unused sick and vacation for public safety employees, they are retiring in droves.

The irony of it all is that most live at the shore and voted for Christie !!! Isn't that a kick in the butt !!

Posted on: 2010/7/30 0:44
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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jc344 wrote:
Thanks Brewster for pointing things out to me... Maybe Jerseyofficer simply made a grammatical mistake( did I spell that correctly?) . It's obvious what your opinion is of Police and the public Sector, that doesn't mean it's right, to berate someone because of his/her opinion, "cops aren't to bright"only underscores one thing........Again nothging productive to add to the discussion so we resort to personal attacks and grammatical mistakes................I guess because it's your opinion that makes it right.. Must get awfully lonely on that mountain looking down on other people......


Thanks JC344 for illustrating how there can be nothing said but praise for cops or you get the hammer. It's a long standing policy to make cop pay the 3rd rail of politics. Hence while my 1st post wasn't personal, but criticized the continuing and misleading crying of poverty by cops as a cynical contract negotiation position, you seize on a comment by a different poster, and beat it to death to avoid the engaging in the substance. Bravo.

Grammatical error? Seriously? All I saw was a long tirade about why cops pay should continue to be off the table while everyone else is going broke and our kids are losing teachers to budget cuts.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 19:16
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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brewster wrote:
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ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

JerseyOfficer wrote:
No one is arguing about being underpaid.


Your post says it half a dozen times.


You've exposed the real problem. Most cops just aren't that bright.


True, if they were they couldn't take the boredom of the job. It's really not as exciting as TV.

My favorite part of his response is the "you got problem with our pay, take the test". Classic aggressive response to the citizen who is his employer questioning his complaining about what he admits is adequate compensation. By that logic only other cops can question his pay package. Note, I didn't even say they're overpaid, all I said is stop the bitching.


The nxt time you have a bunch of thugs ready to pounce on you, dont call the cops, just call a few scholars........

Posted on: 2010/7/29 19:14
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Thanks Brewster for pointing things out to me... Maybe Jerseyofficer simply made a grammatical mistake( did I spell that correctly?) . It's obvious what your opinion is of Police and the public Sector, that doesn't mean it's right, to berate someone because of his/her opinion, "cops aren't to bright"only underscores one thing........Again nothging productive to add to the discussion so we resort to personal attacks and grammatical mistakes................I guess because it's your opinion that makes it right.. Must get awfully lonely on that mountain looking down on other people......

Posted on: 2010/7/29 17:52
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Yes policemen make good money. I have one uncle and four cousins that were/are policemen in Staten Island. They receive fantastic benefits/pensions and have done/do a great job. Me? A policeman? Nope. I could not even begin to imagine. I would be bored out of my mind most of the time and scared to death at other times. That's not the career for me - no matter how wonderful the pay & benefits could be. Different strokes for different folks. I think that everyone could make an initial post about their career here - just like this first guy did. I'm not sure why, but we all could!

Posted on: 2010/7/29 17:24
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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jc344 wrote:
In Jerseyofficer's post he/she is merely expressing an opinion about people's perception of how the police and public sector are somehow responsible for the economic/budget problems we are currently facing. When I read it at no time did it come off as "bitching" ,but then again I don't pre judge.When you resort to statements like "cops just aren't that bright" it just shows that you really have nothing constructive to add to the discussion . When people resort to personal attacks and generalizations such as "cops aren't that bright" shows their level of intelligience.


The pay comments are in bold. The "brightness" lack is obvious, posting an unattributed screed without obvious quotations containing statements he didn't actually agree with.

Quote:
Sadly, public safety seems to always bear the brunt of animosity and is the onus of government despondency.

The age-old mantra of ?police make too much? for so long (and too long) has been cried.

The attraction to becoming a police officer or fire fighter because of its benefits should not be surprising or admonished. Are there any doctors, attornery, brokers reading this? Many of us chose professions outside of public safety for the very same reason!

Prior to becoming a police officer, I was a consultant for a prominent firm after having earned my MBA from Columbia University. I chose this profession because of its lucrative benefits. As the possibility of downsizing was on the horizon at my firm, I decided to fulfill a childhood dream and pursue a career as a police officer, taking a substantial reduction in pay, but with the promise of job security.

The benefits of policing may seem overly generous and even undeserving; however I challenge you to ask yourself, would you do the job for the same pay? Furthermore, lowering the pay or stripping the (few) benefits afforded to public safety will only reduce the hiring standards because no (qualified) individual will subject themselves to the harsh and hostile working conditions as they are today for miserly compensation

You only need to look at the NYPD to see evidence of my argument. Because of their poor compensation, they are forced to lower their hiring standards and hire in droves because of attrition but more importantly, termination for cause.

You may think that police do nothing?just go out and purchase a scanner and listen for yourself just what?s going on in your district. I bet you?ll think differently once you hear just how busy (and depending on the call) just how scary policing is.

?A policeman is a composite of what all men are... a mingling of saint and sinners... dust and deity. Cold statistics wave the fan over the stinkers...underscore instances of dishonesty and brutality because they are news.

What that REALLY means is they are exceptional, unusual - not commonplace. Buried under the froth is the fact that less than one half of one percent of policemen misfit that uniform. And that's a better average than among clergymen.

What is a policeman made of. He of all men is at one the most needed and the most unwanted... a strangely nameless creature who is "sir" to his face... and "pig" to his back.

He must be such a diplomat that he can settle differences between individuals... so that each will think he won... But if the policeman is neat, he's a flirt. If he's not, he's a grouch.

In an instant he must make decisions which require months for a lawyer. But if he hurries, he's careless. If he's deliberate, he's lazy. He must be first to an accident... infallible with a diagnosis... he must be able to start breathing, stop bleeding, tie splints and above all be sure the victim goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued.

The police officer must know every gun... draw on the run... and hit where it doesn't hurt. He must be able to whip two men his size and half his age....without damaging his uniform and without being brutal. If you hit him, he's a coward. If he hits you, he's a bully.

A policeman must know everything and not tell. He must know where all the sin is and not partake.

The policeman must, from a single human hair, be able to describe the crime, the weapon and the criminal.. and tell you where the criminal is hiding. But if he catches the criminal he's lucky... if he doesn't he's a dunce. If he gets promoted he has political pull. If he doesn't he's a dullard.

The policeman must chase bum leads to a dead end and stake out ten nights to tag one witness who saw it happen, but refused to remember.

He runs files and writes reports until his eyes ache to build a case against some felon who will get dealed out by a shameless shamus or an honorable who isn't.

A policeman must be a minister... social worker... a diplomat... a tough guy... and a gentleman.

And of course he will have to be a genius... for he will have to feed a family on a policeman's salary.?

Posted on: 2010/7/29 17:14
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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In Jerseyofficer's post he/she is merely expressing an opinion about people's perception of how the police and public sector are somehow responsible for the economic/budget problems we are currently facing. When I read it at no time did it come off as "bitching" ,but then again I don't pre judge.When you resort to statements like "cops just aren't that bright" it just shows that you really have nothing constructive to add to the discussion . When people resort to personal attacks and generalizations such as "cops aren't that bright" shows their level of intelligience.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 16:22
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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As someone who considered ROTC to pay for college, I now wish I thought about becoming a cop right out of high school. Instead of spending the time and tuition for college and grad school I could be halfway to my retirement already.

And you are forgetting there are many other perks besides health care and pension for a young stereotype acknowledging man with a badge.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 16:15
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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Quote:

ianmac47 wrote:
Quote:

brewster wrote:
Quote:

JerseyOfficer wrote:
No one is arguing about being underpaid.


Your post says it half a dozen times.


You've exposed the real problem. Most cops just aren't that bright.


True, if they were they couldn't take the boredom of the job. It's really not as exciting as TV.

My favorite part of his response is the "you got problem with our pay, take the test". Classic aggressive response to the citizen who is his employer questioning his complaining about what he admits is adequate compensation. By that logic only other cops can question his pay package. Note, I didn't even say they're overpaid, all I said is stop the bitching.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 16:00
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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brewster wrote:
Quote:

JerseyOfficer wrote:
No one is arguing about being underpaid.


Your post says it half a dozen times.


You've exposed the real problem. Most cops just aren't that bright.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 13:46
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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We need more cops in JC, thats a fact! Cops should make good money as they risk their lives every day. We also need the old time cops to retire since they do NOTHING and get paid the most. Now firemen on the other hand are way OVERPAID! Yes they risk their lives but 99% of the time they are doing nothing!

Posted on: 2010/7/29 13:44
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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FYI - The quote is from radioman Paul Harvey. His father was a cop and murdered when Paul was only 3yo.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 3:59
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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JerseyOfficer wrote:
No one is arguing about being underpaid.


Your post says it half a dozen times.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 3:55
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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No one is arguing about being underpaid. I think at this level, we are duly compensated.

If you're ill about our benefit package, I invite you to take the civil service test.

Best of luck.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 3:52
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Re: Vilification of public safety
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At the risk of feeding a troll: what crap about being underpaid! An NYPD officer with 5.5 years in makes $91k BEFORE the usual overtime, and not counting health and retirement bennies. I'd be surprised if many readers here make more than the whole package. As a freelancer, I probably would have to make well north of $150k to equal it when you factor in the healthcare, social security and pension.

source: http://www.nypdrecruit.com/NYPD_BenefitsOverview.aspx

It's the constant whining about pay that convinces young people that being a PO, nurse or teacher is a bad idea, when in fact they are well paid, and have great benefits. I know a supervising social worker with both BA and MSW from ivy's and 15 years experience who makes $15k less than the above with far less benefits. Granted he's not risking getting shot on a daily basis, but there's lot's of risky jobs with pay nowhere near a cops.

Posts like this lose you respect, not gain it.

Posted on: 2010/7/29 3:47
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Vilification of public safety
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Sadly, public safety seems to always bear the brunt of animosity and is the onus of government despondency.

The age-old mantra of ?police make too much? for so long (and too long) has been cried.

The attraction to becoming a police officer or fire fighter because of its benefits should not be surprising or admonished. Are there any doctors, attornery, brokers reading this? Many of us chose professions outside of public safety for the very same reason!

Prior to becoming a police officer, I was a consultant for a prominent firm after having earned my MBA from Columbia University. I chose this profession because of its lucrative benefits. As the possibility of downsizing was on the horizon at my firm, I decided to fulfill a childhood dream and pursue a career as a police officer, taking a substantial reduction in pay, but with the promise of job security.

The benefits of policing may seem overly generous and even undeserving; however I challenge you to ask yourself, would you do the job for the same pay? Furthermore, lowering the pay or stripping the (few) benefits afforded to public safety will only reduce the hiring standards because no (qualified) individual will subject themselves to the harsh and hostile working conditions as they are today for miserly compensation.

You only need to look at the NYPD to see evidence of my argument. Because of their poor compensation, they are forced to lower their hiring standards and hire in droves because of attrition but more importantly, termination for cause.

You may think that police do nothing?just go out and purchase a scanner and listen for yourself just what?s going on in your district. I bet you?ll think differently once you hear just how busy (and depending on the call) just how scary policing is.

?A policeman is a composite of what all men are... a mingling of saint and sinners... dust and deity. Cold statistics wave the fan over the stinkers...underscore instances of dishonesty and brutality because they are news.

What that REALLY means is they are exceptional, unusual - not commonplace. Buried under the froth is the fact that less than one half of one percent of policemen misfit that uniform. And that's a better average than among clergymen.

What is a policeman made of. He of all men is at one the most needed and the most unwanted... a strangely nameless creature who is "sir" to his face... and "pig" to his back.

He must be such a diplomat that he can settle differences between individuals... so that each will think he won... But if the policeman is neat, he's a flirt. If he's not, he's a grouch.

In an instant he must make decisions which require months for a lawyer. But if he hurries, he's careless. If he's deliberate, he's lazy. He must be first to an accident... infallible with a diagnosis... he must be able to start breathing, stop bleeding, tie splints and above all be sure the victim goes home without a limp, or expect to be sued.

The police officer must know every gun... draw on the run... and hit where it doesn't hurt. He must be able to whip two men his size and half his age....without damaging his uniform and without being brutal. If you hit him, he's a coward. If he hits you, he's a bully.

A policeman must know everything and not tell. He must know where all the sin is and not partake.

The policeman must, from a single human hair, be able to describe the crime, the weapon and the criminal.. and tell you where the criminal is hiding. But if he catches the criminal he's lucky... if he doesn't he's a dunce. If he gets promoted he has political pull. If he doesn't he's a dullard.

The policeman must chase bum leads to a dead end and stake out ten nights to tag one witness who saw it happen, but refused to remember.

He runs files and writes reports until his eyes ache to build a case against some felon who will get dealed out by a shameless shamus or an honorable who isn't.

A policeman must be a minister... social worker... a diplomat... a tough guy... and a gentleman.

And of course he will have to be a genius... for he will have to feed a family on a policeman's salary.?

-Author Unknown

Posted on: 2010/7/29 3:30
bonum commune communitatis
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