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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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I get you. I am learning about wording my posts in a more focused manner. I DO tend to defend the accused probably because I have witnessed police lying so many times and committing crimes themselves. Small fish to me means mostly prostitutes, homeless, etc. For all the money we spend arresting them and imprisoning them we could buy them a house.

Posted on: 2009/10/3 16:55
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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marybarr wrote:
L All I got from the article was that they were young and speaking Spanish and that there were no weopons or drugs on him when caught. But it was sure stupid to spit at cops and then run. I also didn't say the cops had no probable cause, because I really can't tell that from the article either, just that I wish they could catch bigger fish.

Ticketing make sense but if I saw an officer giving my car a ticket on a bad day I am not sure what I would say. I hope I'm level headed enough to smile and say, "Have a nice day officer."


marybarr, we usually agree so I'm not trying to piss you off.

First, they weren't "just speaking spanish" They were yelling - at the cops.

Second, they failed to comply when they said to keep their hands where they could see them. That puts cops in a precarious situation.

Again, I'm taking this as the article was written.

Third, I want them to catch all fish, big and small.

Lastly, if a cop was giving you a ticket, and you were in the wrong, it really doesn't matter much what you say.

Posted on: 2009/10/3 16:10
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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newtothearea wrote:
obviously there is a line when it comes to unreasonable searches. but, using some judgment, which im not sure the jcpd has (besides the point), i dont see anything wrong with some random checkpoints or searches. and sprinkle a little racial profiling in there as well for good measure.


I'm sure lots of people don't have a problem with parts of the US Constitution; that doesn't mean we should violate any of it.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 19:50
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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obviously there is a line when it comes to unreasonable searches. but, using some judgment, which im not sure the jcpd has (besides the point), i dont see anything wrong with some random checkpoints or searches. and sprinkle a little racial profiling in there as well for good measure.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 19:39
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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The police were being proactive......They need to continue in other areas in the same manner (Wayne Street).....This type of action uncovers more serious criminal activity....Its really just common sense that some (just some not all!) that commit minor crimes would have a predilection for commiting more major offenses.....Again good job JCPD and thank you.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 19:10
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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^^^
Cite evidence please.

And I imagine that constant nit-picking and ball-busting will drive out plenty besides "criminals."

Posted on: 2009/10/2 17:13
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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LadyBug247--They were drug dealers? I didn't read that anywhere. I also don't know them personally so I can't state that THEY are thorns in the neighborhood. All I got from the article was that they were young and speaking Spanish and that there were no weopons or drugs on him when caught. But it was sure stupid to spit at cops and then run. I also didn't say the cops had no probable cause, because I really can't tell that from the article either, just that I wish they could catch bigger fish. I believe some cops are good and do good works and I respect that their jobs can be dangerous and that they often DO get real bad guys. Excuse me, I just get frustrated sometimes. Oh and I live at The Beacon but I visit other areas of the city and I have eyes. Crime is everywhere, just folk with money can hide it better.

Ticketing make sense but if I saw an officer giving my car a ticket on a bad day I am not sure what I would say. I hope I'm level headed enough to smile and say, "Have a nice day officer."

Posted on: 2009/10/2 17:12
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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There is something to be said for issuing lots of small time tickets in a city like this. Other towns have found that if you gain a reputation for issuing tickets for minor offenses, criminals try and avoid the area, and therefore the number of more serious crimes drops.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 17:06
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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I'm pretty sure the cops can go after the "really bad folk" and the not-as-bad folk at the same time. It does not have to be mutually exclusive.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 17:02
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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marybarr wrote:
New Heights always loves to pick on me. I state my opinion and my opinion is based on experience. I worked in NYC Corrections for two years and I teach classes at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. It isn't always on the police officers, it is the fault of having a quota system. Quantity comes before quality of arrests. I also believe it makes good cops do stuff they wouldn't ordinarily do because hey, the guy who gets more arrests gets more money and promotions. The arrests aren't always closely looked at. And that's the fact Jack.

Also I don't feel safer having parking tickets and spitting youths being the police targets. There are REALLY BAD folk out there and they could have been doing something about them instead.


Not countering anything you say, but other posts here talk about how the police don't give parking tickets ENOUGH. And if we take the story as it is written, they starting insulting the officers without provocation. I for one, am glad this guy is going to have a record (or more of one).

Posted on: 2009/10/2 16:59
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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You do not live in this neighborhood obviously mary and if drug dealing does not constitute a serious reason for the police to be around what is a good reason???? we are not talking about innocent victims of police misconduct these young men are a thorn in the side of this development.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 16:53
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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New Heights always loves to pick on me. I state my opinion and my opinion is based on experience. I worked in NYC Corrections for two years and I teach classes at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. It isn't always on the police officers, it is the fault of having a quota system. Quantity comes before quality of arrests. I also believe it makes good cops do stuff they wouldn't ordinarily do because hey, the guy who gets more arrests gets more money and promotions. The arrests aren't always closely looked at. And that's the fact Jack.

Also I don't feel safer having parking tickets and spitting youths being the police targets. There are REALLY BAD folk out there and they could have been doing something about them instead.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 16:04
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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Vigilante wrote:
The Check Points are great for stopping speeders, Stop Sign runners and people with expired inspection stickers etc. The cops only need this simple excuse to run a check on a drivers record. It's the same reason NYC used to go after fare-jumpers, squeegie men etc. Often these small violations are the tip of the iceberg and an outstanding warrant is revealed. Many times the cops in NYC caught perps with guns, drugs etc. and took them off the street after nabbing them for simple crimes. In a city where the police force is understaffed this is a fantastic idea. Create pinchpoints through which traffic flows and weed out those with outstanding warrants. These kids gave the cops a perfect excuse to bust them. "Interfering with a Goverment function". I Love It! Kudos JCPD.


ID'ing people with probable cause (speeding, stop sign runners, etc.) is one thing. Random checkpoints without cause are quite another. That's all I'm saying.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 15:15
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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The Check Points are great for stopping speeders, Stop Sign runners and people with expired inspection stickers etc. The cops only need this simple excuse to run a check on a drivers record. It's the same reason NYC used to go after fare-jumpers, squeegie men etc. Often these small violations are the tip of the iceberg and an outstanding warrant is revealed. Many times the cops in NYC caught perps with guns, drugs etc. and took them off the street after nabbing them for simple crimes. In a city where the police force is understaffed this is a fantastic idea. Create pinchpoints through which traffic flows and weed out those with outstanding warrants. These kids gave the cops a perfect excuse to bust them. "Interfering with a Goverment function". I Love It! Kudos JCPD.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 14:24
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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Too bad these punks didn't accidently fall down the stairs while being taking into custody.....

Kudos to the JCPD!

Posted on: 2009/10/2 13:49
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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Marybarr you're a disgrace

Posted on: 2009/10/2 13:34
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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4th and Marin do meet. It is inside the Villa Boriquen development. Those of you who walk down Grove may notice how there are many young men who also hang out at 4th and Grove. Police presence is long over due in this neighborhood because drug dealing is an ongoing problem.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 12:51
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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Vigilante wrote:
This is exactly why the cops should have road-blocks and spot checks in problem areas.


I'm not up on all my Amendments to the Constitution, but isn't singling out one neighborhood for a roadblock because it's a "problem" in violation of one of them?

Posted on: 2009/10/2 7:22
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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DowntownSteve28 wrote:
Great job, Vigilante. Chiming in based on something someone else said without backup? Own yourself, fat boy.

------------------------------------------------------------------
The Michigan Supreme Court had found sobriety roadblocks to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment. However, by a 6-3 decision in Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz (1990), the United States Supreme Court found properly conducted sobriety checkpoints to be constitutional. While acknowledging that such checkpoints infringed on a constitutional right, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued the state interest in reducing drunk driving outweighed this minor infringement.

Furthermore:

Although the U.S. Supreme Court has found sobriety checkpoints to be constitutionally permissible, eleven states have found that sobriety roadblocks violate their own state constitutions or have outlawed them. [4] Opposition to sobriety roadblocks is generally stronger among civil libertarians, conservatives and libertarians. See Foss, R.D., et al. Roadside Surveys in Conjunction with Sobriety Checkpoints. North Carolina State Highway Safety Research Center, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC. Shaffer Library of Drug Policy.

Furthermore:

Judge Stevens, who also dissented in this case, argued that the net effect of checkpoints on traffic safety is small, and possibly negative. He also stated that even if roadblocks were effective, conducting them would not justify violating people’s constitutional rights.

Many DUI attorneys call this ruling “the DUI exception to the Constitution.”
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, Vigilante, you're in the minority on your fascist police state mentality. You know who also liked checkpoints?


You know the judge's position is weak when he admits it's unconstitional just "not enough" to matter.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 2:14
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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JC_DowntownRegular wrote:
Quote:

...at Fourth Street and Marin Boulevard...


Pardon my ignorance, but do 4th and Marin even cross?

And kudos to JCPD.


No, they don't, but we're talking about the Jersey Journal here. Gotta give them some leeway when it comes to facts and figures. And names and sequence of events and charges and followups and procedure. If they report on it.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 2:12
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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bodhipooh wrote:
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That would violate the 4th amendment.


Not true!! The Supreme Court has ruled (fairly consistently) on the legalilty of discretionless checkpoints, so long as their scope is narrow and well defined.

As such, police checkpoints to check on driver's licenses and registrations are legally permissible. The same goes for sobriety checkpoints, or immigration verification checkpoints. Lastly, the Supreme Court even allows for focused informational checkpoints.


And as Plessy vs. Ferguson and Kelo vs. New London have shown us, the courts do not always get it right. This is one of those times.

The Fourth Amendment was pretty specific and for good reason:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."


If the scope is narrow and well defined? Random checkpoints are clearly searches without probably cause, regardless of what the courts say.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 2:12
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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Great job, Vigilante. Chiming in based on something someone else said without backup? Own yourself, fat boy.

------------------------------------------------------------------
The Michigan Supreme Court had found sobriety roadblocks to be a violation of the Fourth Amendment. However, by a 6-3 decision in Michigan Dept. of State Police v. Sitz (1990), the United States Supreme Court found properly conducted sobriety checkpoints to be constitutional. While acknowledging that such checkpoints infringed on a constitutional right, Chief Justice Rehnquist argued the state interest in reducing drunk driving outweighed this minor infringement.

Furthermore:

Although the U.S. Supreme Court has found sobriety checkpoints to be constitutionally permissible, eleven states have found that sobriety roadblocks violate their own state constitutions or have outlawed them. [4] Opposition to sobriety roadblocks is generally stronger among civil libertarians, conservatives and libertarians. See Foss, R.D., et al. Roadside Surveys in Conjunction with Sobriety Checkpoints. North Carolina State Highway Safety Research Center, University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC. Shaffer Library of Drug Policy.

Furthermore:

Judge Stevens, who also dissented in this case, argued that the net effect of checkpoints on traffic safety is small, and possibly negative. He also stated that even if roadblocks were effective, conducting them would not justify violating people?s constitutional rights.

Many DUI attorneys call this ruling ?the DUI exception to the Constitution.?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, Vigilante, you're in the minority on your fascist police state mentality. You know who also liked checkpoints?

Posted on: 2009/10/2 2:10
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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...at Fourth Street and Marin Boulevard...


Pardon my ignorance, but do 4th and Marin even cross?

And kudos to JCPD.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 2:04
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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bodhipooh wrote:
DirtMcGirt said
Quote:
That would violate the 4th amendment.


Not true!! The Supreme Court has ruled (fairly consistently) on the legalilty of discretionless checkpoints, so long as their scope is narrow and well defined.

As such, police checkpoints to check on driver's licenses and registrations are legally permissible. The same goes for sobriety checkpoints, or immigration verification checkpoints. Lastly, the Supreme Court even allows for focused informational checkpoints.


Once again DTS gets "owned".

Posted on: 2009/10/2 1:54
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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DirtMcGirt said
Quote:
That would violate the 4th amendment.


Not true!! The Supreme Court has ruled (fairly consistently) on the legalilty of discretionless checkpoints, so long as their scope is narrow and well defined.

As such, police checkpoints to check on driver's licenses and registrations are legally permissible. The same goes for sobriety checkpoints, or immigration verification checkpoints. Lastly, the Supreme Court even allows for focused informational checkpoints.

Posted on: 2009/10/2 1:42
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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DirtMcGirt wrote:
Quote:

Vigilante wrote:
Quote:

marybarr wrote:
Gee I feel much safer now that the cops are writing parking tickets and arresting smart alecs.


This is exactly why the cops should have road-blocks and spot checks in problem areas. Kudos to the JCPD and to this idiot who walked right into their hands.


That would violate the 4th amendment.


Logic has no place in a conversation with Vigilante.

Posted on: 2009/10/1 23:37
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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Vigilante wrote:
Quote:

marybarr wrote:
Gee I feel much safer now that the cops are writing parking tickets and arresting smart alecs.


This is exactly why the cops should have road-blocks and spot checks in problem areas. Kudos to the JCPD and to this idiot who walked right into their hands.


That would violate the 4th amendment.

Posted on: 2009/10/1 23:03
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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marybarr wrote:
Gee I feel much safer now that the cops are writing parking tickets and arresting smart alecs.


This is exactly why the cops should have road-blocks and spot checks in problem areas. Kudos to the JCPD and to this idiot who walked right into their hands.

Posted on: 2009/10/1 22:19
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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Attitude + Hands in Pocket = Big Potential Threat to Police..................................................................................

Glad the Police all went home safe. Glad they made an example of this punk in front of his boys. Good job.

Posted on: 2009/10/1 21:41
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Re: Shoprite/Marin Blvd: Calling cops spanish word for "pigs" leads to trouble for six males
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I'm curious as to where in the timeline the spitting "toward" the cops occurred because the story neglected to clarify that detail. I'm guessing it was some time between the chase and the confirmation that the guy didn't actually have a weapon.

I know what happens when you assume, but hey, there was a lot of that going on for this incident.

Posted on: 2009/10/1 21:32
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