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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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What can I say, except I totally agree the entire City Council meeting on CP tax abatement was a joke....just like the clowns on the council who lack the balls to stand up and do the right thing. Lipski didn't care what he was voting yes for...he's gone and certainly won't be missed with his attitude displayed the other night. Brenen seemed to be channeling someone, however, we now know he use to live at 331 Pavonia for whatever that is worth, Nothing. Just like it had nothing to do with the tax abatement.

What an mess they have no understanding of the issues nor do they even seem to care.

Posted on: 2009/6/19 20:53
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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Is it possible to miss the mark any more than Vega did when he compared this developer bailout to the GM bailout?

Unbelievable.

Posted on: 2009/6/19 20:06
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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Great job, Webmaster - thanks for posting this. The saddest part about the discussion was that the six council members (well, five really - Flood seemed to catatonic to "discuss") were largely allowed to frame this as a debate on the merit of abatements. Fulop called it what it is - it's a giveaway to the developer. Many of the people who spoke against the handout to Fisher are themselves recipients of abatements (or PILOTs) and don't disagree with them in principal.

Posted on: 2009/6/19 16:09
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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Jersey City, NJ Council vote on amending tax abatement agreement with the real estate developer of Crystal Pointe.

The audio system in the council chambers is awfull and needs to be fixed.

Posted on: 2009/6/19 14:45
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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T-Bird wrote:
whatEver


Posted on: 2009/6/19 3:27
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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thanks, t-bird, i did not know of that thread.

ross - so close to an election where 15% of the electorate decided to show up to vote, any recall election is quixotic. i admit that. but let's wait a year or two and use that time to organize a city-wide effort, and it may be an actual force to consider in an election.

or not.

facts are facts. and there is no other way to consider the elections over the last two cycles as clear evidence that this is still a town run by a powerful and organized political machine. correct me if i am wrong, but elected positions are still handed out to the loyal vassals of the ruling elite ....Quote:

T-Bird wrote:
Thanks for the history lesson, Ross. Do you want to do something productive or just be a wet blanket and accept the sh!t sandwich you've been eating for like what? Ever?

o73o2 - the answer is yes. It's being discussed on the Most of the City Council is an Embarassment thread.

Posted on: 2009/6/19 3:05
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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Thanks for the history lesson, Ross. Do you want to do something productive or just be a wet blanket and accept the sh!t sandwich you've been eating for like what? Ever?

o73o2 - the answer is yes. It's being discussed on the Most of the City Council is an Embarassment thread.

Posted on: 2009/6/19 2:19
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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2 points of history

1. Every administration and council since Tony Cucci has been in love with tax abatements and very few abatements have been defeated.

2. Every administration and council since Tony Cucci (and probably before) has been threatened with recall soon after being elected or re-elected. None have been.

Good luck!

Posted on: 2009/6/19 1:17
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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van vorst township is fine.

but this does not change the problem at hand: a small part of the city bear a disproportionately large part of real estate tax burden because (a) property prices in the downtown area are higher and (b) the political decision-making has reduced the size of the potential tax revenues by selling away tax revenues.

unfortunately, the existing political machine was re-elected. and this machine seems to be extremely short-sighted and clearly beholden to developers.

city hall squanders away tax revenue and instead of reducing the tax burden on those whose taxes have financed the city for many years, city hall indirectly increases the net tax burden through abatements.

not taxing fairly the property - both new and old - needs to change. and change must come soon.

preferably, change should happen well before the entire downtown is built up, all the valuable development rights are used up (that is no more tax abatements), and the city finds itself in the hardly enviable position of not having sufficient funding to create, maintain, or expand the infrastructure (roads, sewage, schools, etc) needed to support tens of thousands of new inhabitants lured here by developers with tax abatements.

frankly, i do not know whether the new jersey municipal law gives the electorate the right to recall the mayor and/or city council. if it does, perhaps that what we should do - start a recall process against healey & co ...

any takers?

Posted on: 2009/6/19 0:10
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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tanze_des_lasters wrote:
On a positive note, the most amazing part of this hearing was the absolute passion of those tax-paying, registered voters who spoke out against the abatement. If we can increase this zeal and involvement by the citizenry, there is a chance that those who voted for the abatement will not see the light of day after the next election.


Please spread the word around: The New Jersey Policy Perspective will be releasing their report on tax abatements in JC on July 15th.

Posted on: 2009/6/18 20:26
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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On a positive note, the most amazing part of this hearing was the absolute passion of those tax-paying, registered voters who spoke out against the abatement. If we can increase this zeal and involvement by the citizenry, there is a chance that those who voted for the abatement will not see the light of day after the next election.

Posted on: 2009/6/18 15:10
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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*preliminary name; subject to change....


"Van Vorst Township" as it was 100 years ago.....

As for the vote last night, there really is nothing to say that adequately conveys my disgust.

Posted on: 2009/6/18 13:31
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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o73o2 wrote:
downtown jc differs from all the other areas of jersey city.

if you want a revolution, why not a real revolution!

i advocate secession from the rest of the city to form a new city - tribeca west* - with its own cops, city hall, schools, and government.

i do not know how large part of the city budget comes from the downtown and how much of downtown's contribution to the overall city budget is reinvested in this very part of jersey city, but i would strongly argue, based on the vastly disproportionate valuation of real estate across the wards, that after seceding, property taxes would plummet for the inhabitants of the tribeca west*.

further, i would not be surprised if public services - ranging from cops to schools - would also show a marked improvement.

so, if anyone is interested in organizing a grass-roots movement to secede from jersey city and to form tribeca west* from downtown jersey city, let us unite!


*preliminary name; subject to change....


Awesome idea. Wish this could be done.

Posted on: 2009/6/18 13:05
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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Think of it like this: property tax up, value of your home down. The morons on the council continue to stick to your average homeowner and this one is a double whammy.

I hope that Crystal Point continues to wallow as people shun overpriced "luxury" apartments. How long before Crystal Point is auctioning off apartments a la Beacon?

Given that Manhattan prices are coming down, JC is losing it's advantage of being significantly cheaper. JC will have to compete with Manhattan on something other than price, hmmm...

Posted on: 2009/6/18 12:24
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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Quote:

o73o2 wrote:
downtown jc differs from all the other areas of jersey city.

if you want a revolution, why not a real revolution!

i advocate secession from the rest of the city to form a new city - tribeca west* - with its own cops, city hall, schools, and government.

i do not know how large part of the city budget comes from the downtown and how much of downtown's contribution to the overall city budget is reinvested in this very part of jersey city, but i would strongly argue, based on the vastly disproportionate valuation of real estate across the wards, that after seceding, property taxes would plummet for the inhabitants of the tribeca west*.

further, i would not be surprised if public services - ranging from cops to schools - would also show a marked improvement.

so, if anyone is interested in organizing a grass-roots movement to secede from jersey city and to form tribeca west* from downtown jersey city, let us unite!

*preliminary name; subject to change....


why not just move to hoboken? it would be the same thing. or, merge with it.

that sounds like a treatment which kills the patient before curing him

Posted on: 2009/6/18 11:25
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Re: City Council to Renegotiate Abatement For Developers
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Is it just me or are Fulop and Richardson the only sane members of this city council? Vega talked about supporting the PPG settlement because of the clear majority of speakers for it during the hearing, but then after the amended abatement hearing showed NO ONE supporting it, he voted for it anyway! Brennan and Lipski seemed to be both openly hostile and condescending to the pubic, and in love with the sound of their own voices. Lipski actually said " I support abatements for everyone!" He is still taking a piss on people. Good riddance!

Posted on: 2009/6/18 11:10
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Re: City Council to Vote Tonight on Reducing Waterfront Tax Abatement
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passed.

Posted on: 2009/6/18 4:50
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Re: City Council to Vote Tonight on Reducing Waterfront Tax Abatement
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Taxpayers have no one to blame but themselves they reelected the Mayor and the City Council.

Posted on: 2009/6/18 4:43
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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A few years ago, I made sure to get out of work early so I could go to a City Council meeting to protest that whopping double-digit property tax hike (year 1 of the Healy administration). I don't think even a half dozen people showed up. In the meantime, there was some meeting relating to the VVP dog run that was packed. I'm not saying dogs aren't important - I adore them - but I do wonder about people's priorities in this town. I was so disheartened that I figured any future effort to protest property tax hikes and obscene abatements were just futile. I guess people won't get off their butts until Healy & Co. screw things up so badly that we're socked with a 47% tax hike like Hoboken. In the meantime, I continue to shop around for a new place to live. Whether or not to remain in JC is a big question.

Posted on: 2009/6/18 3:01
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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how would taxes plummet? you're going to have a small portion of residents (yuppies) paying the lions share of taxes since your neighbors dont pay a dime (luxury condos, office towers). if anything, your taxes would go UP methinks..

if it were as simple as that, dont you think everyone south of times square would have seceded from queens/brooklyn/bronx a long time ago? (i dont even count staten island, which should really be part of jersey)

Posted on: 2009/6/18 1:17
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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downtown jc differs from all the other areas of jersey city.

if you want a revolution, why not a real revolution!

i advocate secession from the rest of the city to form a new city - tribeca west* - with its own cops, city hall, schools, and government.

i do not know how large part of the city budget comes from the downtown and how much of downtown's contribution to the overall city budget is reinvested in this very part of jersey city, but i would strongly argue, based on the vastly disproportionate valuation of real estate across the wards, that after seceding, property taxes would plummet for the inhabitants of the tribeca west*.

further, i would not be surprised if public services - ranging from cops to schools - would also show a marked improvement.

so, if anyone is interested in organizing a grass-roots movement to secede from jersey city and to form tribeca west* from downtown jersey city, let us unite!


*preliminary name; subject to change....

Posted on: 2009/6/18 0:13
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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on your way to the revolt (don't forget the pitchforks and torches), don't forget to stop by GROOVE ON GROVE and check out Jersey City's own WJ & THE SWEET SACRIFICE


woot!

Posted on: 2009/6/17 17:31
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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heights wrote:
That's why you have to keep in mind the other 5 ward council member canidates you don't vote for. Because once they are elected even though they do not represent your ward they still vote on all issues and agendas regarding the whole of Jersey City, including those that affect the ward that you live in.


Agreed - that's why a "we're all in this together" mentality works best. If enough people from each of the six wards show up to keep their specific council representative honest, there's a better chance of ending up with a positive outcome. (Assuming you are against the enhanced abatement.)

I'll be there tonight. Trying to figure out how to bring all the dead voters who are still registered voters with me.

Posted on: 2009/6/17 17:08
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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EasyRidersJC wrote:
If this goes through, it will be used as precedent for other corps. to apply for extended tax abatements, citing the economy. If I am not mistaken, The Beacon recently asked for something similar. I do hope people come out in protest and that Fulop is not the only council member to vote against it.

That's why you have to keep in mind the other 5 ward council member canidates you don't vote for. Because once they are elected even though they do not represent your ward they still vote on all issues and agendas regarding the whole of Jersey City, including those that affect the ward that you live in.

Posted on: 2009/6/17 17:02
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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I would love to see hundreds of disgruntled tax-paying residents show up tonight and get right in the face of the mayor and his council to show them WE AREN?T GOING TO TAKE THIS SITTING DOWN!

I?ll be there. Anyone else?

Posted on: 2009/6/17 16:54
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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If this goes through, it will be used as precedent for other corps. to apply for extended tax abatements, citing the economy. If I am not mistaken, The Beacon recently asked for something similar. I do hope people come out in protest and that Fulop is not the only council member to vote against it.

Posted on: 2009/6/17 16:51
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Re: City Council to Vote Tonight on Reducing Waterfront Tax Abatement
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Gee, let me guess how this vote will turn out...

Taxpayers always getting screwed.

Posted on: 2009/6/17 15:45
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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can anyone post the details of this meeting?

My guess is the low rent govt officials will sneak this thru one way or the other.

It is a disgrace that the city coddles RE developers the way they do.

Posted on: 2009/6/17 15:30
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Re: City Council to Vote Tonight on Reducing Waterfront Tax Abatement
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boo to revising PILOT agreement......yeay to the resolution honoring Easy Riders JC tonight for being a first to an important initiative and will be read by Ward "E" Councilman Steven Fulop

Posted on: 2009/6/17 15:20
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Re: where is the JCLIST Tax Abatement Revolt?
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Webmaster: This thread and the"City Council to Vote Tonight on Reducing Waterfront Tax Abatement" thread should be merged.

Right on Dan! EVERYONE who pays taxes or has an interest in the future of the city should be at the meeting tonight and be heard! Just because the mayor and his rubber stamps would like to govern like this is Haiti doesn't mean we have to acquiesce.

Posted on: 2009/6/17 14:42
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