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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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your lucky he was an officer and not a thug. the thug would have beaten you sensless and taken all your money.

If someone is bigger than you keep your mouth sealed and mind your business, It's not worth it.

You also sound like an agitator, you couldn't have been in that much of a rush.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 15:45
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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"If it was the never ending exchange place escalator i'd maybe understand, but it's a 10 second escalator ride at Grove. Why would you antagonize someone who is twice your size in the first place? Seriously who says "You are lacking etiquette." ? It's more of a shock you're jaw isn't wired shut after saying some dumb shit like that. Grow a set of balls or know when to keep your mouth shut. Better yet enjoy the escalator ride.

If you didn't want him arrested or feel threatened by him why would you follow him and call police? It's one or both usually when making that call. They aren't counselors, and it was a waste of their time. CRIME IS UP.. blame bozos like this guy for wasting police time."


This response seems characteristic of the general sentiment, although I'm kind of curious where the contempt is coming from here. I should have mentioned I'm from California to see what kind of well-mannered response that would provoke (I bet you don't stop for people in crosswalks, do you?). There is a difference between words and actions. Yes, I could have walked away after the shove, but would you? Perhaps you would have shoved back? And, then, he would have shoved again. Next, a punch. Or, you might have walked away, but I was indignant yet non-violent. Yes, looking back, it was silly, but it's also symbolic. As Malcolm Gladwell suggests, there are perhaps no greater indicators of crime than tipping points, even the most minute.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 15:44
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Alastor,
You are a moern day hero to me. People who use use the PATH on a regular basis know that it's a courtesy to stand to the right and allow peolple to walk by on the left. This a**hole was obviousy well aware of that custom but went out of his way to be agressive and confrontational to a stranger. I'm glad it was you and not me that ran into him because I often give the 'excuse me' when I want to pass too and as much as I hate to think so, I don't think I would have met his behavior with your measured response.
So way to stand up to this sociopath (who may be a cop?!?)and follow through the way you did after he assaulted you. Although it was met with such pathetic apathy you still did the right thing.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 15:34
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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OK. If you were going to walk up the escalator why not use the stairs? I can see walking up the escalators at Exchange Place... But at Grove it would have been faster to walk up the stairs...

And I wouldn't have questioned the guys manners... I would have mentioned to him that next time it might do him some good to walk up the stairs rather then being a lazy fat ass... Of course I would have made sure I could run away.. :)

Posted on: 2009/2/20 14:54
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Which took longer: the entire incident or the time spent writing the essay about it?

And is there anyway I can get back the past 5 minutes of my life?

Posted on: 2009/2/20 14:45
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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"You are lacking etiquette" - did you also stomp your feet and threaten to tell mommy if he didn't move??

Maybe the police didn't give a crap because this isn't Mayberry or Bumfuk, Iowa - people are getting killed all over the city and you're worried about being shoved. Welcome to JC!

Posted on: 2009/2/20 14:38
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Quote:

alastor wrote:
At about 11:45pm on February 19, 2009, I was ascending the escalator from the Grove Street PATH Station. It was gusty and cold, so I walked quickly up the escalator. There was a heavy-set, muscular man in front of me. I politely said, "Excuse me," in order to move past him on the left. He acknowledged me and said he would not move. I consider it common courtesy to keep to the right so people can pass. When I asked again, he refused to move. I remarked that "You are lacking etiquette." I did not curse at him nor was I verbally abusive. I did not in any way touch his person. I only admonished him for his discourtesy. This man's response was to become verbally threatening. Immediately upon exiting the escalator, he gave me a powerful shove.

I considered his shove physically threatening, and the man intimated that he would escalate his violence if I talked back to him. This man was more than twice my size, and I had not physically provoked him in any way, nor had I used any foul language towards him. In some cases, the law considers such a shove an act of minor assault. I told him I was calling the police. While on the phone with the dispatcher, I followed the man for less than a block. He was moving away from me, and I didn't feel in danger. During this time, he used his cell phone to make several phone calls. I partially overheard these calls, and it sounded like he was on the phone with the police precinct and in conversation with the lieutenant on duty. His tone was familiar and friendly implying some kind ofpre-existing connection with whomever he was speaking to. He identified himself as "Nathan."

When the police arrived, one of the offices was ending a cellular call with the words, "Ok boss." I explained to one of the officers what had occurred. The officer's demeanor was gruff and agitated, bordering on unprofessional. He was more concerned with debating about what constituted appropriate escalator courtesy than the action which prompted my call--the shove. Of course, there is no way to objectively prove what happened between the man and I. My intention was not to have this man arrested. When he pushed me, I felt threatened, but even more so, I felt pushed around. It is unacceptable in our culture for strangers to touch one another in such an aggressive way. Rather than push back, I made recourse to the police who are supposed to protect the citizenry from the unwarranted physical force of others. In short, this was a matter of principle.

It was clear, however, that the two responding officers had no patience or understanding for the situation. Instead of trying to listen to my concern, I was treated with suspicion and disrespect. And it became increasingly clear to me that whatever connection this man had to the police, it was influencing my interaction with them. They seemed entirely unconcerned with even the possibility of this man's aggression towards me. Instead, they equivocated the incident by telling me the man claimed I had pushed him, although the officer who reported this hadn't even spoken with him yet. Moreover, when I suggested that this man had called their lieutenant, NeilDonnelly, they denied any knowledge of it, even though the Lt. drove directly past us and they pointed this out to me.

I asked for the officers' bade numbers, but only one of them would reveal it to me. They both became increasingly truculent, got in their patrol car, and sped away. The man who pushed me walked away cackling. Now, I realize that a rejoinder to this story may be that I was wasting police time, and, more casually, that I shouldn't have remarked on a stranger's bad manners--that I was asking for it. At the same time, I think it's pretty important that people not think that can strong-arm members of the public who verbally reproach them. Evidently, this man felt implicated to the point of having to call someone in blue.


Patience is a virtue, nxt time just chil and wait til you get to the top or bottom of the ride and don't be looking for trouble.

This is JC not "Niceville" usa.

Sad but true.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 14:33
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Next time when dealing with the police, audio record on your cell phone if it has that capability.

The big guy on the escalator is an ignorant jerk and did lack "etiquette. Don't waste your time when dealing with a lilly-livered sea cucumber.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 13:47
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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...leading to grass before breakfast.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 13:44
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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"You are lacking etiquette."
Them's fightin words where I come from. The usual retort is something like " and YOU sir, are a sniveling pantywaist, of questionable ancestry I might add." This is usually followed up with a slap across the face with a glove. Then it gets really ugly.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 13:32
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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maybe he's on the juice.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 13:28
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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I'm with you alastor. If this guy actually is a cop he should be reported, he's probably a time bomb. If he's not a cop, it's a shame he apparently has their protection, as he's a liar and a thug.
That said, best let it go, or you'll make yourself crazy. And ease up on insulting strangers. I'll bet there are lots of folks that you wouldn't start up with based upon their demeanor. You just got fooled by this guy, expecting he knew the meaning of "etiquette"
Shows your lack of street smarts.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 13:05
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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Getting shoved sucks - but this really wasn't worth the confrontation. Not only are the Grove Street escalators a short ride (as Willy_Lopez pointed out), but they're also very narrow escalators. It's impossible to pass someone on those escalators without roughly jostling them aside. If you were in such a hurry, why didn't you just take the stairs between the escalators?

Posted on: 2009/2/20 12:59
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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I understand that you were upset that a man shoved you, and that he was somehow affiliated with the police in which case you felt your voice was not heard, I get that. What I don't understand is why this became such a big deal. You asked him to move, he made a choice and said no, that sucks for you but that was his choice. Yes it's rude and mean, but do you know how many rude and mean people there are in this world. If we called the police everytime someone was rude or mean it would cause complete chaos. He should not have shoved you, but the whole situation could have been avoided had you just said to yourself "this guys an a$#hole" and moved on.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 10:49
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Re: Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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If it was the never ending exchange place escalator i'd maybe understand, but it's a 10 second escalator ride at Grove. Why would you antagonize someone who is twice your size in the first place? Seriously who says "You are lacking etiquette." ? It's more of a shock you're jaw isn't wired shut after saying some dumb shit like that. Grow a set of balls or know when to keep your mouth shut. Better yet enjoy the escalator ride.

If you didn't want him arrested or feel threatened by him why would you follow him and call police? It's one or both usually when making that call. They aren't counselors, and it was a waste of their time. CRIME IS UP.. blame bozos like this guy for wasting police time.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 8:57
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Pushed Around? JCPD and Manners
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At about 11:45pm on February 19, 2009, I was ascending the escalator from the Grove Street PATH Station. It was gusty and cold, so I walked quickly up the escalator. There was a heavy-set, muscular man in front of me. I politely said, "Excuse me," in order to move past him on the left. He acknowledged me and said he would not move. I consider it common courtesy to keep to the right so people can pass. When I asked again, he refused to move. I remarked that "You are lacking etiquette." I did not curse at him nor was I verbally abusive. I did not in any way touch his person. I only admonished him for his discourtesy. This man's response was to become verbally threatening. Immediately upon exiting the escalator, he gave me a powerful shove.

I considered his shove physically threatening, and the man intimated that he would escalate his violence if I talked back to him. This man was more than twice my size, and I had not physically provoked him in any way, nor had I used any foul language towards him. In some cases, the law considers such a shove an act of minor assault. I told him I was calling the police. While on the phone with the dispatcher, I followed the man for less than a block. He was moving away from me, and I didn't feel in danger. During this time, he used his cell phone to make several phone calls. I partially overheard these calls, and it sounded like he was on the phone with the police precinct and in conversation with the lieutenant on duty. His tone was familiar and friendly implying some kind ofpre-existing connection with whomever he was speaking to. He identified himself as "Nathan."

When the police arrived, one of the offices was ending a cellular call with the words, "Ok boss." I explained to one of the officers what had occurred. The officer's demeanor was gruff and agitated, bordering on unprofessional. He was more concerned with debating about what constituted appropriate escalator courtesy than the action which prompted my call--the shove. Of course, there is no way to objectively prove what happened between the man and I. My intention was not to have this man arrested. When he pushed me, I felt threatened, but even more so, I felt pushed around. It is unacceptable in our culture for strangers to touch one another in such an aggressive way. Rather than push back, I made recourse to the police who are supposed to protect the citizenry from the unwarranted physical force of others. In short, this was a matter of principle.

It was clear, however, that the two responding officers had no patience or understanding for the situation. Instead of trying to listen to my concern, I was treated with suspicion and disrespect. And it became increasingly clear to me that whatever connection this man had to the police, it was influencing my interaction with them. They seemed entirely unconcerned with even the possibility of this man's aggression towards me. Instead, they equivocated the incident by telling me the man claimed I had pushed him, although the officer who reported this hadn't even spoken with him yet. Moreover, when I suggested that this man had called their lieutenant, NeilDonnelly, they denied any knowledge of it, even though the Lt. drove directly past us and they pointed this out to me.

I asked for the officers' bade numbers, but only one of them would reveal it to me. They both became increasingly truculent, got in their patrol car, and sped away. The man who pushed me walked away cackling. Now, I realize that a rejoinder to this story may be that I was wasting police time, and, more casually, that I shouldn't have remarked on a stranger's bad manners--that I was asking for it. At the same time, I think it's pretty important that people not think that can strong-arm members of the public who verbally reproach them. Evidently, this man felt implicated to the point of having to call someone in blue.

Posted on: 2009/2/20 8:05
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