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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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I do not believe anyone showed to meet with Rev Lannon. The Rector, Rev Broderick was listed as a guest and attended the October, Harsimus Cove Assn meeting along with Capt. McDonough and there was a very poor turnout. While those that did show had a constructive dialogue, I doubt anyone here attended.

If interested in talking further or perhaps volunteering to help, attend an upcoming HCA meeting or contact via the calendar listing here.

Posted on: 2008/11/17 22:39
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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I have no problem with programs for kids if it keeps them out of trouble. If you read the very first post here you will see that the original shooting happened sometime around midnight. Why would Grace Church allow an under-age party to continue that late? What kind of wacky religion do they affiliate themselves with that this is okay? These kids should be off the premises and dispersing by 10:00pm at the latest. The church should arrange for a police presence to keep these kids moving along. If the church wants to burden the neighborhood than they should be completely liable for any damage done to property etc.
I think most people would agree that it's a good thing to give these kids something to do but when you simply herd them together willy-nilly and then set them loose on a neighborhood that is irresponsible.

Posted on: 2008/11/17 14:56
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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How do you know where these kids live?

You seriously don't think there are underprivileged kids that live in and around Hamilton Park? Really?

You might want to take a walk around. You live in Hamilton Park in JERSEY CITY. Not Ridgewood. Not Alpine.

Posted on: 2008/11/17 14:43
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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OMG. People of color in my white enclave? Its more likely than you think.

Posted on: 2008/11/17 14:11
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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These kids don't live in the Hamilton Park/Downtown area, then DON'T BRING THEM HERE! Let the churches in their neighborhoods "Save the Youth"

Posted on: 2008/11/17 13:04
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Agreed. Grace Church needs to consider the notion that gathering large numbers of "underprivileged" youths together on a Saturday night is more likely, not less likely, to cause problems.

One would not gather hit-men, drug users, or psychopaths together at parties in the hope of reducing hits, fights or drug use. Why do it with "troubled" youth?

If Grace church wants to help these kids one on one -- go for it. Great idea. I don't see why the church's neighbors have to sit in the crossfire created by the church's mission.

Posted on: 2008/11/17 4:15
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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this was just submitted by another poster under a new thread ("Pilfering Juvenile Ruffian's Strike Again") early this morning, involving, apparently, the kids exiting en masse from Grace Van Vorst Church's monthly party:

posted by "RocketBldg" -Newbie
Pilfering Juvenile Ruffian's Strike Again #1

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Moe's Deli robbed by the "back-to-school" party this evening AGAIN (caps added for emphasis). Approximately 75 plus students between the ages of 13 and 18 stole cupcakes from the store.

Police were called. The group of kids made a quick get-away down Newark Avenue. Several police cruisers ensued. About 25 students were temporarily held for questioning. No arrests were made.

When is this going to end? At what point does Grace Church's sponsors realise they are creating more of problem for the residents of downtown JC? And to the kids who robbed the store: Was it really worth stealing the cupcakes? Come on kids, get a life.
- RocketBldg
--------------------------------------------------

ditto.
grace church turning deaf ear to downtown neighbors' concerns borders on arrogance --either have the parties in a non-residential area, or bring the parties to neighborhoods where these kids live.
apparently,there have been issues (gun shots, followup assaults, etc., now, store robbery) with each and every one of these parties held at Grace Church.

Posted on: 2008/11/16 20:02
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Although this is not my neighborhood, I would like to know the outcome of the meeting. Did anyone attend and what was the result? The information could be used in other neighborhoods where these same types of incidents are happening.

Thank you.

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nicklannon wrote:
Just a reminder to the community: If you'd like to meet with the Pastors of Grace Church about Saturday night community parties, we'll be in the Sanctuary of Grace Church tonight at 6pm, with coffee and snacks. If you're interested, we hope to see you there.

Posted on: 2008/10/9 14:32
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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i, too, can't make it to to the meeting, but for the record, am highly opposed to having these parties
--this was a gun fired in a crowd-and the reverend seems to skim over the potential gravity- and rather,puts forth a "sugar-coated" version of events. i'd venture to say that very few if any kids from mcnair or st. peters prep, as she claims, attended, and know that after this last incident, few of the parents of kids from those schools would be sending their kids to a party where stray bullets were fired in a crowd...where members of gangs attend (and looking from my window that night, saw at least a dozen kids in gang regalia.
if we want to give kids from other neighborhoods something to do, go organize activities in their neighborhoods, or in a non-residential venue, where bullets fired, trash and glass bottles being flung around, where arguments/screaming far past midnight, trespassing onto private property do not intrude on the sleep and peace-of-mind of law-abiding, taxpaying neighbors of the church.

Posted on: 2008/10/6 23:30
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Just a reminder to the community: If you'd like to meet with the Pastors of Grace Church about Saturday night community parties, we'll be in the Sanctuary of Grace Church tonight at 6pm, with coffee and snacks. If you're interested, we hope to see you there.

Posted on: 2008/10/6 16:54
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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just to clarify- the 2 teens on our property shoving, slapping and cursing at each other weren't doing so in jest-- it was a male and female having a domestic argument (he was mad at her from an incident at the party?)- i even turned on the porch light and screamed from my window at them to leave, but they just went on with their altercation.

Posted on: 2008/9/20 13:38
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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i too think the reverend's letter misses the point and is disingenuous:
1) she stresses that shooter was some man who "just happened to be going by" on his bike and shot in the air. had there not been a ruckus of 100+ people (or so it seemed and sounded at the hour past midnight, when this occurred), would the shooter have even been there? how does she know that he was not there to meet someone from the party, etc.
2) the past several parties have woken me and my kids from sleep--some people are asleep after midnight, even on a saturday--and we woke in alarm, because it sounded like there was rioting, glass breaking, things being knocked over.
3) this last party, a group of 5 kids from the party, 2 who came onto our yard, our property, and shoving each other, slapping each other, screaming obsenities, scared my family, our neighbors, etc. enough so that the police were even called and we requested a driveby to disperse (nevermind the fact that 15 minutes later, the police had still not showed up or driven by, and by then, kids had finally left (after throwing several glass bottles outside our street, leaving sharp shards for cars to drive over) and we went finally back to sleep.
4) the next morning, the street was noticibly filthier, with more trash and litter than normal, cups, glass bottles, etc. i'm not saying that the area around erie street doesn't normally have trash, but if you have 100+ kids chaotically rushing out and screaming through the neighborhood at past midnight, don't think recyling and keeping kids clean is their first priority.
5) its one thing to say that you are trying to do good by giving youth activities, but very myopic when that comes at the expense of being a poor neighbor-- if this continues, and provisions aren't made for noise, cleanup, vandalism, and fighting, etc. this is going to be a pr disaster for the church, neighbors are going to get testy and this could end up being a story debated in the news.
6) one final note: in the past few years, there have been a rash of postings about the rise of crime in the van vorst park area, the increase in gang presence downtown. it is my belief that this in part has to do with the fact that when middle school 4 opened 2 years ago, kids from school 22, from lafayette gardens projects began attending the school downtown on bright street. so after school, instead of hanging out in their neighborhood, it makes sense for them, their family, older siblings, etc to hang out downtown and near van vorst, etc. i'm not saying this is not okay, but in the areas where large groups of kids hang out together, there is more likely to be incidents.

Posted on: 2008/9/20 13:18
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Quote:

JerseyCityNj wrote:
Quote:

Waggs wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
wouldn't it make sense to require police presence at these "parties" if fights are common and the ante has been upped by morons popping shots into the sky?


The problem is that these "parties" aren't being confined within the walls of the church or right outside. The people spill throughout the surrounding neighborhood and continue well after the party ends...police presence would be great, but not enough.

They need to end...walk around the neighborhood Saturday night...You'll find tons of empty vodka/beer bottles and lots of other trash...ok, there is already a lot of trash there to begin with, but there is definitely an increase immediately following..

Why should we wait until somebody gets shot to end these parties?


From reading the replies it seems there were only two parties, that were a problem not all of them. I dont think stopping every party all together is the right thing to do. Yes it does suck when a few mess up the fun for the majority just going to have a good time. I wouldnt see a problem with IF the parties continue to be a problem, having an officer present or at least patrol more between calls. There have already been enough places in this city shutdown because of the actions of a few people. The violence shouldnt be tolerated at all but ocasional violence is expected at large gatherings in urban areas. Maybe something should be done to prevent this from happening again but the parties should be able to continue.




To be correct about this: there have been
THREE "parties" so far this summer, and each one
has been a major disaster. The second one was
especially terrifying for the people who actually
live here. The police, who responded with many,
many cars, were essentially unable to deal with
the rioting because of the sheer number of
"Kids" --most of whom,by the way, are NOT teenagers but
folks in their twenties (fully adult, in other
words). Do not be fooled by parish rhetoric
that this is harmless and a "nice" thing for
the church to be doing. The church owes
allegiance first to the neighborhood it
resides in (since it is the neighbors who pay
the taxes on the tax exempt church real estate).

We have to realize that these so-called
parties are not serving the needs of kids
who live downtown, but kids from far
away nabes that have nothing to do with
downtown. If it were our own kids
getting the benefit of the dances, that
would be one thing. But our kids would
not be safe or probably welcome at these
thug-menaced events.
We need to put a stop to this stuff
before the church goes looking for
city funding to pay for these things
and then they become a permanent
part of the local geography. Once
the city or county starts paying for
a social program like "youth
services",it is almost impossible to
get rid of the Program even if it is
dangerous and an unfair burden on
the neighborhood it happens in.
Nip it in the bud is the best method
when you sense that something is
inherently wrong and ill-suited
to the site.

The police, in talking with neighbors
on Erie Street who were menaced
last time by the wild rioting,
said that there is a very visible
and identifiable Bloods gang
presence at these events.
We want the Bloods coming here
to party, folks?
Let's get real about this.

Posted on: 2008/9/18 17:10
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Dear Neighbors,

We are very shocked and saddened by what took place on our sidewalk after our "back-to-school" party last Saturday night. We sponsored this party as a fun event for students between the ages of 13 and 18 from our local high schools. These children come to the party from schools in our neighborhood: Dickinson, Ferris, and St. Mary's, Create, St. Peter?s Prep, McNair/Academic and Lincoln are among them. We wish to provide a safe environment for our kids to dance, relax, socialize and enjoy a party together. We want to reach out to them. We hired five off-duty police; two were assigned to search every student before they enter the party and three walked among the children and monitored the exits during the party. There are no weapons and no alcohol, cigarettes or drugs at the party. Students can buy water and soda. Many students are dropped-off and picked-up by their parents. Some students must depend on the light-rail or walk home after the party lets out.

I was at our most recent party along with our assistant pastor, Nick Lannon, and our youth minister Herman Thompson. We know the children were safe and had a good and enjoyable time before they left.

Clearly what happened on the street afterwards was unacceptable and dangerous. We have been told that a man on a bicycle rode by the church and fired a gun into the air in front of our kids. We understand that incidents (not a spent shell, but a fist-fight among four boys) have taken place on the streets after other parties this summer. We want to keep our children and the neighborhood safe. Our inner-city youth have no where to go and recreate; they do not have safe places to have fun and to form relationships. We want to reach out to our kids and to make Grace Church (The kids call us Grace House) a place where they can come and get healthy meaningful social interaction.

We are working with the police and with many volunteers to make sure our parties are safe. Primarily, we are hoping that together we can make sure the sidewalks are free from any danger as the students exit the party. We will post volunteers on the blocks, lower the number of children and try to release them in smaller bunches.

We don't want to let a few people prevent a whole generation of our children from having safe fun once a month.

Nick and I would be very happy to meet with you and to hear your ideas for safety. We will be available on October 6 in the Church from 6-9pm We will all be there with coffee and a snack, please stop by and speak with us. If you would like to volunteer with our youth, please let us know that too. Together we can make room for everyone to enjoy our neighborhood.

Janet Broderick, Rector, Grace Church

Posted on: 2008/9/18 12:43
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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This is the second time that chaos exited around Erie and Newark,. It doesn't matter the color or creed, You can be white, brown or black, a load of kids in a group is bad #OOPS#ing news, no matter what color....Kids in groups equal TROuBLE!!!!

Posted on: 2008/9/16 4:56
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Quote:

jmanny wrote:
I was listening to the scanner last night, and something happened at the light rail station by liberty park, shortly after the incident by Grace church. There were shots fired, and it sounded like from the same group at Grace Church who had moved their party. I even heard that a mother and her 2 children were in the cross fire at the station.


Shots fired at Liberty State Park light rail station, police say

by Charles Hack/The Jersey Journal
Monday September 15, 2008, 2:02 PM

A woman and her two children made a narrow escape from a shooting at the Liberty State Park light rail station Sunday morning, police reports said.

A 25-year-old woman was sitting on a bench at a glass enclosure with her 8-year-old and 8-month-old children just after midnight when she saw a large group of youths, which she estimated were in their late teens and early 20s, reports said.

She said she heard five shots and fled with her children, reports said. She had a small scratch on the back of her hand but refused medical attention, police said.

Police found four bullet strike marks on the glass where they were sitting, reports said.

No arrests have been made.

Posted on: 2008/9/16 2:24
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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The same type of parties/events take place almost every Saturday night at the charter school on 9th St. I have the pleasure of living in the neighborhood and often hear thumping bass and loud crowds into the wee hours of the morning. I have called the cops on many occasions because of the noise and disorderly conduct of the people attending events there. One one occasion it took 3 patrol cars to get the crowd under control. My friend parked in the school's lot over the weekend and had his car vandalized overnight. Luckily it was nothing serious but could have been a lot worse. It is because of these types of things that my wife and I won't even consider buying property in JC.

Posted on: 2008/9/15 18:42
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Quote:

slauben wrote:
Quote:


From reading the replies it seems there were only two parties, that were a problem not all of them. I dont think stopping every party all together is the right thing to do. Yes it does suck when a few mess up the fun for the majority just going to have a good time. I wouldnt see a problem with IF the parties continue to be a problem, having an officer present or at least patrol more between calls. There have already been enough places in this city shutdown because of the actions of a few people. The violence shouldnt be tolerated at all but ocasional violence is expected at large gatherings in urban areas. Maybe something should be done to prevent this from happening again but the parties should be able to continue.



Yeah, this sounds like a great idea, like it was said in an earlier post..... let the parties keep going until one of those shot isn't fire into the 'heavens', yet into some teenagers chest... Brilliant idea!!! I live a block from the Parish Hall and walk my dogs down Erie all the time, as a matter of fact I must have missed this incident by minutes. Every time these parties are thrown there is always a ton of people out in the street and on the sidewalks, and the next day there is always a ton of trash, actually it was still there this morning.... The church needs to take responsibility for cleaning up and/or hire security or something.


Unfortunately we live in a city where violence is common among teens. The idea that every time there is a few violent incidents by a few people we should shut down the place it started from or is closest to isnt really solving anything. Its nice to know the church has parties the teens can go to. There isnt enough places for them to go in this city. This week you will say stop the parties and if it was, the next week you would complain about teens hanging out on the corners. Even when I was a teen when there was party there was always the people outside the party that are usually smokers or people having conversations. There was also ocasional fights. I do agree the church should be responsible for cleaning up and security or at least make the person having the party responsible. There needs to be more places teens can go have a good time in this city we shouldnt get rid of the few places they have left because of the actions of a few idiots.

Posted on: 2008/9/15 17:33
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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From reading the replies it seems there were only two parties, that were a problem not all of them. I dont think stopping every party all together is the right thing to do. Yes it does suck when a few mess up the fun for the majority just going to have a good time. I wouldnt see a problem with IF the parties continue to be a problem, having an officer present or at least patrol more between calls. There have already been enough places in this city shutdown because of the actions of a few people. The violence shouldnt be tolerated at all but ocasional violence is expected at large gatherings in urban areas. Maybe something should be done to prevent this from happening again but the parties should be able to continue.



Yeah, this sounds like a great idea, like it was said in an earlier post..... let the parties keep going until one of those shot isn't fire into the 'heavens', yet into some teenagers chest... Brilliant idea!!! I live a block from the Parish Hall and walk my dogs down Erie all the time, as a matter of fact I must have missed this incident by minutes. Every time these parties are thrown there is always a ton of people out in the street and on the sidewalks, and the next day there is always a ton of trash, actually it was still there this morning.... The church needs to take responsibility for cleaning up and/or hire security or something.

Posted on: 2008/9/15 15:41
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Quote:

Waggs wrote:
Quote:

mfadam wrote:
wouldn't it make sense to require police presence at these "parties" if fights are common and the ante has been upped by morons popping shots into the sky?


The problem is that these "parties" aren't being confined within the walls of the church or right outside. The people spill throughout the surrounding neighborhood and continue well after the party ends...police presence would be great, but not enough.

They need to end...walk around the neighborhood Saturday night...You'll find tons of empty vodka/beer bottles and lots of other trash...ok, there is already a lot of trash there to begin with, but there is definitely an increase immediately following..

Why should we wait until somebody gets shot to end these parties?


From reading the replies it seems there were only two parties, that were a problem not all of them. I dont think stopping every party all together is the right thing to do. Yes it does suck when a few mess up the fun for the majority just going to have a good time. I wouldnt see a problem with IF the parties continue to be a problem, having an officer present or at least patrol more between calls. There have already been enough places in this city shutdown because of the actions of a few people. The violence shouldnt be tolerated at all but ocasional violence is expected at large gatherings in urban areas. Maybe something should be done to prevent this from happening again but the parties should be able to continue.

Posted on: 2008/9/15 14:12
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Quote:

mfadam wrote:
wouldn't it make sense to require police presence at these "parties" if fights are common and the ante has been upped by morons popping shots into the sky?


The problem is that these "parties" aren't being confined within the walls of the church or right outside. The people spill throughout the surrounding neighborhood and continue well after the party ends...police presence would be great, but not enough.

They need to end...walk around the neighborhood Saturday night...You'll find tons of empty vodka/beer bottles and lots of other trash...ok, there is already a lot of trash there to begin with, but there is definitely an increase immediately following..

Why should we wait until somebody gets shot to end these parties?

Posted on: 2008/9/15 13:43
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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wouldn't it make sense to require police presence at these "parties" if fights are common and the ante has been upped by morons popping shots into the sky?

Posted on: 2008/9/15 13:27
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Looks like the Jersey Journal has officially adopted "yahoo" as their choice term to describe someone firing random gunshots in the air.....

Posted on: 2008/9/15 2:38
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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nj.com Shots fired outside Jersey City church

by Charles Hack/The Jersey Journal Sunday September 14, 2008, 8:10 PM

A party at a Downtown Jersey City church ended with a bang early this morning as a yahoo on a bike fired a shot into the heavens, reports said.

Police heard a gun shot as they responded to a report of a brawl in front of Grace Church Van Vorst, 39 Erie St., at 12:22 a.m., police said.

When they arrived, they saw a large crowd fleeing in different directions, reports said.

A witness said that a man on a bike fired a shot in the air, police said.

A spent shell casing was recovered nearby. A party was being held inside the church hall, reports said.

Posted on: 2008/9/15 1:57
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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I was listening to the scanner last night, and something happened at the light rail station by liberty park, shortly after the incident by Grace church. There were shots fired, and it sounded like from the same group at Grace Church who had moved their party. I even heard that a mother and her 2 children were in the cross fire at the station.

Posted on: 2008/9/14 20:23
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
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Just lovely... they bring a gun to a party in a church...unreal!

Posted on: 2008/9/14 20:12
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
#5
Just can't stay away
Just can't stay away


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I heard the same noise on 2nd btw Manila and Erie and was wondering as well. Thanks for the info guys- I was pretty concerned.

Posted on: 2008/9/14 14:42
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
#4
Home away from home
Home away from home


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yes I heard all that last night too.
very disturbing. Grace Church rents out their Hall on weekends, Saturday nights for sure not certain about Fridays. Most of these gatherings are noisy, yes the music is loud but the exiting crowd is civil and folks are allowed to party, I have no issue with that. The crowd last night as well as the crowd a few weeks ago were not cool at all.
I had to call the cops a few weeks ago when at the same time around midnight upon leaving the Grace Church Saturday rental a very loud, violent fight broke out right in front of my building on 3rd bet Erie & Jersey.

Mary Ann

www.downtowndogwalk.weebly.com
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/

Posted on: 2008/9/14 13:53
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
#3
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Police told me there was a fight that spilled out on to the street outside of Grace church and there were also gun shots.
I'm not sure what these weekly Saturday night parties are hosted at Grace church, but I think there should be a call out to make sure this was the last of them.
I've noticed on Saturday nights lately there seems to always be a party there.

Posted on: 2008/9/14 5:01
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Re: What the hell just happened on Erie Street?!
#2
Home away from home
Home away from home


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Gun Shots...

That street is turning into the OK Corral

Posted on: 2008/9/14 4:42
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