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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
 
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HAAAA
hysterical and so sadly true: lunawolf3 wrote: When was the last time you saw a kid: Lead the blind & assist the deaf? Althea wrote: All the time, but we generally like to go by the term, "parents."
Posted on: 2007/6/8 17:46
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bluehorse wrote:
PS. I have nothing against dogs, but I doubt any dog will sameday be our future leader or pay taxes or support me in my old age. (Ok,ok, a few exceptionals ones will be able to bring me the phone, when I fall down and break my hips.) perhaps but consider this: When was the last time you saw a kid: Lead the blind & assist the deaf? Greatly assist the handicapped and wheel chair bound? Alert and sound the alarm when a loved one is seizing? Alert and locate cancers? Rescue drowning victims? Search & locate fire, hurricane & other natural disaster victims? Lower blood pressure? (kids increase BP greatly) Decrease loneliness and depression? (kids make you depressed) Kids are the cause of most of the above and you know it. I want to remind you all of Balto & Togo and what they did for those kids: In 1925, a life-or-death race to rescue the children of Nome, AK, from disease made an international hero of one sled dog -- and eventually led to the creation of Alaska's Iditarod sled dog race, the subject of NATURE's SLED DOGS: AN ALASKAN EPIC. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/sleddogs/balto.html PLEASE NOTE THE ABOVE WAS INTENDED FOR ( HA) HUMOROUS AUDIENCES ONLY AND INTENDED & OFFERED TO LIGHTEN EVERYONE UP A BIT
Posted on: 2007/6/8 14:49
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Newbie
 
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Actually you are mistaken about Concept D.
The children's play structures will be separated within the Kid's Quadrant. The difference is that the desire is to have one fence around the quadrant and one entrance point (Concept A,B, and C does not allow for this). Within that space the 2 age group play structures will be separated so that toddlers aren't run over by older kids (the design of such will be worked out if D wins). There can be picnic tables in the center between the play structures making it easy for parents to look towards one or the other play area and monitor children of different age groups. Plan D is the best plan for parents and gives us an opportunity to build an awesome playground for our children! VOTE CONCEPT D!!!!
Posted on: 2007/6/8 14:28
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Just can't stay away
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With gentrification, first comes the gays, then the dogs, then the children. We are currently at the brink between dogs and children.
Should downtown be so advanced someday that families are willing to have children here, we will look at the parks and be puzzled by why more money was spent on the bigger dog run than the smaller, much more crowded playground, as in Van Vorst Park. Will Hamilton Park go to the dogs too? Ps. I have nothing against dogs, but I doubt any dog will sameday be our future leader or pay taxes or support me in my old age. (Ok,ok, a few exceptionals ones will be able to bring me the phone, when I fall down and break my hips.) Quote:
Posted on: 2007/6/8 13:25
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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Well I have to say that I have found this to be a very hostile thread and don't even feel I can post without being condescended to.
Lunawolf3 has been a wonderful voice and ray of hope in dissolving this dog owner vs. parent argument. Right now we are all fighting for the paln that best fits our own personal needs and the needs of the various groups we are associated with. Now we will vote. Like I have said many times before, no matter the out come I will be more than happy to support improvements for any group. Thank you Leon for posting here your views, which are just as valid as the other arguments put forth. Althea Quote:
Posted on: 2007/6/8 13:03
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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'every time I try to get out they pull me back in'
G_Elkind said: While I'm on my three minute soapbox here, this vote should not be characterized as dog vs children or us against them referendum. I understand what you are saying G and it is very sad to me that the choices are as they are. The plans themselves fostered and created this sentiment. A plan E would have been so great :( There was absolutely no reason why both the parents and the dog owners needs could not have been met. But alas we are where we are and I agree once the ultimate plan is voted in we all need to work together. Althea & I have been talking and we will continue to after the final vote. Although I must say I feel this quote was misleading, dishonest and a bit of dirty pool: L Green said: This is a great opportunity to build a phenominal family and dog friendly park for our community and your vote and input will make a difference.
Posted on: 2007/6/8 12:44
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Home away from home
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If I was someone from the 'outside' looking in, I would have to conclude that the 'pro-dog' group were nuts.
What's more important here - the safety, welfare and enjoyment for children / humans or dogs? Why not look for an empty block or disused piece of land and convert it into a stictly dog run use only. You have empty space right along and under the turnpike to create some 'kick-ass' space for dogs. For example, what about even asking the owners of the shoprite carpark to allow some space there for a larger dogrun - it could be located near those charity bins?
Posted on: 2007/6/8 11:45
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My humor is for the silent blue collar majority - If my posts offend, slander or you deem inappropriate and seek deletion, contact the webmaster for jurisdiction.
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Newbie
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The Board of Directors for Jersey City Family Initiative has reviewed the plans and we are in agreement that CONCEPT D is the most family friendly park concept. As such we are endorsing CONCEPT D and would encourage you to consider it when you vote.
This decision was primarily made because this is the only concept that will allow a playground design accomodating play areas for different age children with a single point of access so that parents/caregiveres can monitor kids in all of the playgrounds. All three of the alternative concepts would require the playgrounds to be seperated across sections of the park an have seperate entrances. This makes it very difficult to monitor multiple children across playgrounds. As with most issues in Jersey City, our ability to influence the outcome is limited by our ability to get the vote out. Speak to your friends, family, and neighbors to rally support but most of all just get folks to come out and vote their preference. This is a great opportunity to build a phenominal family and dog friendly park for our community and your vote and input will make a difference. If you support CONCEPT D, please post a fliers in your building and on your block. For those interested, we have posted a flier at: http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa ... ngreene/VoteConceptD2.jpg Regards, Leon Greene
Posted on: 2007/6/8 3:49
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Parkman wrote:
As a member of the Friends of Van Vorst Park, the AD Hoc Committee for the VVP and HP dog runs, I would like to endorse design ?B?, with caveats. If the dog run is extended into the area where the game tables are now drawn and the entrance to the older children?s playground is changed from the center north spoke to the northeast and center east spokes, I would support ?B?. ?B?, as opposed to ?D? does not put the dog run right in the middle of all the active areas of the park. ?B? dog run area can be expanded south and provide a greater buffer to 9th st. by moving the entire run slightly south and still gain more space. ?C? takes away an area for older kids by eliminating a multi-use tennis court. ?A? is great if you want to watch golf balls flying through HP. ?D?, besides the previous comment, is very difficult to expand in order make an adequate size dog run. I feel we have to choose between four flawed designs, however if the city is willing to be flexible, as Steve and Jen have stated, then maybe we can make ?B? work. No matter what design you prefer, please come out to vote. Excellent points Parkman!!! Adding moving the entrance to the older kids playground is something I did not see--you are absolutely right, thank you 4bailey wrote: Vote Concept B!! ...and please,? write-in somewhere on your ballot: ?Extend the dog-run?!! ...and "Saluti", skwirrlking!! More great points- a well exercised dog is a more quiet, less reactive, calm, social & happy dog :) I concur too that plan B best meets all of the park users needs-not just dog owners 4bailey would you post your write-in suggestion on DOGJC please? http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/DOGJC/ ok my work here is done thanks Mary Ann
Posted on: 2007/6/7 14:08
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As lunawolf3 said, the jury is still out with regard to balls/Frisbees, so I think your premise is false. I thought my point was pretty simple: for voluntary compliance, you?re going to have give those owners who let their dog off-leash today a real incentive to use a run. With the dog-run proposed in Concept B, there?s still a lot of variables left open - final size, position, shape, ratio, surface, etc.. I hope these can be addressed to allow dog-owners to play safely with their dogs. With Concept D only giving 29% of the area voted on in the survey in the large dog-run, I think the Concept D dog-run would have to be the most prohibitive from day-one on the dog-toy issue. Vote Concept B!! ...and please,? write-in somewhere on your ballot: ?Extend the dog-run?!! ...and "Saluti", skwirrlking!!
Posted on: 2007/6/7 12:12
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"Dogs are our link to paradise." - Milan Kundera
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Althea wrote:
Pardon me for a moment here, but it is my understanding that DogJC is recommending that toys do not be brought into dog runs as there is a tendency for dogs to become aggressive over their toys and start fights with other dogs. This I understood from the dog-owner's advocate group themselves presents a dangerous situation and should be avoided. In fairness the DOGJC has not officially stated no toys in the run. The rules still states: 'no squeaking toys' I understand what 4bailey is saying. The frisbee play was what they needed to resort to in order to exercise their pooch. So since plan B gives the dogs more room than D that is the best plan for the dogs. And yes it is true the smaller the run the higher ALL the dogs tension levels are about everything--not just toys. I realize MOST dogs are fine with toys or in the case of V V 'non squeaking toys' but many are not. For every 20 dogs who are fine--you are likely gonna have 2 or more who are not and that is too high. I have been approach by many owners asking the rule be changed to no toys at all including balls. So this is now an issue we clearly need to address. Our chats got kinda cut off with all the H P Vote posts. We will get back to it though. Mary Ann I am going back to DOGJC now guys nice chatting with you all. If you wanna chat dog things come on over there. See you then:)
Posted on: 2007/6/7 3:49
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Home away from home
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If the dog-owner adovcate group believes that there should not be toys in the dog run, a group you are saying should be the one to decide the requirements of the dog run, then why would someone playing frisbee with their dog outside the run be another reason to vote for plan B?
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Posted on: 2007/6/7 3:29
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I'm questioning your question.  What don't you get?...
Posted on: 2007/6/7 0:02
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"Dogs are our link to paradise." - Milan Kundera
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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Pardon me for a moment here, but it is my understanding that DogJC is recommending that toys do not be brought into dog runs as there is a tendency for dogs to become aggressive over their toys and start fights with other dogs. This I understood from the dog-owner's advocate group themselves presents a dangerous situation and should be avoided.
I'm not questioning the need for a larger run, but I do question the logic here. Quote:
Posted on: 2007/6/6 23:35
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soshin: Mention guns and bd pops up through a hole in the ground like a heavily armed meercat
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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As a member of the Friends of Van Vorst Park, the AD Hoc Committee for the VVP and HP dog runs, I would like to endorse design ?B?, with caveats.
If the dog run is extended into the area where the game tables are now drawn and the entrance to the older children?s playground is changed from the center north spoke to the northeast and center east spokes, I would support ?B?. ?B?, as opposed to ?D? does not put the dog run right in the middle of all the active areas of the park. ?B? dog run area can be expanded south and provide a greater buffer to 9th st. by moving the entire run slightly south and still gain more space. ?C? takes away an area for older kids by eliminating a multi-use tennis court. ?A? is great if you want to watch golf balls flying through HP. ?D?, besides the previous comment, is very difficult to expand in order make an adequate size dog run. I feel we have to choose between four flawed designs, however if the city is willing to be flexible, as Steve and Jen have stated, then maybe we can make ?B? work. No matter what design you prefer, please come out to vote.
Posted on: 2007/6/6 20:07
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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With the vote just a few days away, let me add some additional points why Concept D presents the worst implementation when it comes to the dog-run question.
About 1 and ? weeks ago, I was walking my two in VVP and ran into a couple with their dog off-leash in the SSE segment. Yep, VVP has a dog-run, yet this couple felt the need to flaunt the law! Now,? you can get all indignant and outraged that their dog is off-leash on a lawn and not in the dog-run, but, stop and ask? Why?? These felons were playing Frisbee doggie-in-the-middle! I?m not condoning what they did, but the bottom line is that this couple couldn?t play with their dog in the VVP run; the run is too small and too crowded/dense with dogs and owners to permit activities like this. I?m not blaming anyone involved in the VVP run, it?s just a necessary limitation given the size of VVP. But, for all intensive purposes, the run at VVP is a ?dog-romp? not a dog-run. With the size difference between HP and VVP, dog-owners interact differently with their dogs. It?s not uncommon to see chuck-it sticks (?arm catapults? that permit you to throw a ball further), specialty ?light-up? balls, soft-fabric dog ?Frisbees?, etc. It?s safe to say that HP is a far more ?dog active? park than VVP. Don?t ?shoot the messenger? here, but the bottom line is that if you want a healthy degree of voluntary compliance with the leash laws you?re going to have to give dog-owners some real incentive. It ain?t in Concept D. As I?ve mentioned, the Concept D dog-run, especially for any dog over 23 lbs, is the wrong size, ratio, and shape. Some of you were wondering how shape factors in, let me try to clarify? The shape of large dog-run in Concept D is closer to a square/circle than to a long shape, like a rectangle, long triangle or oval. I?ve observed that dog-run shapes closer to a tight square/circle tend to promote canine ?interaction? and associated good/bad behaviors (i.e. ? barking, squabbles, etc.) instead of exercise. On the other hand, a good-size run with some length in the shape promotes exercise by both owners and dogs providing more ?pockets? where owners who choose to can actually play with their dogs. The minor tweak of extending the dog-run in Concepts A-C to use an entire segment forms a nice, long triangle with ?neutral corners? ? much preferably to the ?blobby? shape in Concept D. You?re going to need this design to give most of those active dog-owners a reason to use the run and comply with the leash law. The other point I?m trying to make is that the shape of a dog-run can influence the overall sound level and the potential for squabbles. Many of you have expressed misgivings about noise from a dog-run. I?m the first to admit that I don?t have a PhD in animal behavior, but even I know that a tired dog is a quiet dog. It?s really not my personal preference (I?m a long-time gardener), but there seems to be some growing momentum to vote for Concept B to defeat a flawed and unfair dog-run plan at the root of Concept D. I?ll be voting Concept B.
Posted on: 2007/6/6 19:35
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"Dogs are our link to paradise." - Milan Kundera
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I?m in the run daily and live directly across the street and unless you?re Pinocchio (no offence to those of great proboscises) there is no discernable smell even from the perimeter fence of the park. The sewer smell at the corner of Jersey, thanks to the JCMUA, is far more noxious than anything coming from the run. With the daily volume of dogs in the run, you would be pleasantly surprised as to the lack of a urinal smell, of which, you seem to be familiar.
Posted on: 2007/6/6 0:16
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I hear you :)
However remember please the surface materials used in V V P Dog Run which will also be used in Hamilton Park are a far cry from the majority of the runs in NYC. Unless your buddy lives across from the 72nd street run which is the only one in NYC that has the same surface as V V this comparison won't mean much :(
Posted on: 2007/6/5 17:49
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Newbie
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sounds good. i have a friend who lives across from a dog park in manhattan and if she opens the windows it smells like a urinal. it is so disgusting
Posted on: 2007/6/5 17:43
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Anytime Piggy :)
Why don't we ask Parkman about the smell factor? Fair? he lives directly over the run in V V P
Posted on: 2007/6/5 17:39
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hey, this is fantastic! i forgot that dog owners love the smell of dog pi$$! thanks for posting this
Posted on: 2007/6/5 17:33
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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http://www.reuters. com/article/ gc08/idUSL054561 4220070405
Home buyers search for a playground for Fido Thu Apr 5, 2007 9:37AM EDT NEW YORK (Reuters Life!) - A playground for dogs is one of the hot items on the "must have" list for house hunters, according to a survey on emerging housing trends. Dog parks have become a popular request in new home searches, often tipping the scale in decision-making, said Chicago-based author, columnist and real estate broker Mark Nash. He reported the trend in his annual survey of what's in and what's out with homebuyers based on information from 480 real estate agents from across the United States and Canada. "It could give a green light to a home that someone may not be absolutely in love with if there is a dog park and they are a dog owner," said Nash in an interview. In addition to providing a place to exercise the pampered pet, owners often view dog parks as a way to integrate and interact with other dogs in the new neighborhood, he added. The trend has grown most in major urban centers like Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia and New York, where more dog parks exist, but Nash believes the word is spreading. In Clearwater, Florida, Bay Park Condominiums offer a gated and well-lit dog run in each building, according to internet advertisements. Nash predicted that having a dog park as a community amenity could shorten the amount of time a home is on the market and potentially increase a property's value. Pooch owners are looking for a quiet park within reasonable walking distance that Is two to four acres, well-lit for evenings, has latched gates to allow for off-leash runs, paths for rainy days, trees and benches for shade and rest, said Nash. Sites like www.dogpark. com, which will open a virtual park in the online world of Second Life, provide an extensive country-wide dog park list for owners looking for that perfect location.
Posted on: 2007/6/5 17:27
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dog run hamilton park
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Newbie
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So, what's everyone voting for? If you live in the condos on 9th St and anything but plan D is voted for, the value of your condo will plummet since you will have the pleasant aroma of dog pi$$ coming through your window 24/7. If the plan with the putting green passes, you get to anticipate a golf ball coming through your expensive front windows. Are any of the plans any good?
Posted on: 2007/6/5 16:50
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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Quote:
...as a number of us have pointed out multiple times...the vote is MEANINGLESS. Whatever "concept" wins, no-one can really derive any meaning to the vote...or worse...can derive any meaning they like. My take...sack these idiot designers and lets get in a group that really listen to the community, give us real choices, and DONT EFFING GIVE US ONE UPDATED DIAGRAM EVERY 3 MONTHS. THIS DESIGN FIRM ARE TOTAL MORONS AND ARE A COMPLETE WASTE OF OUR TIME. Heck - I'm sure Brewster coulda done better with his auto-cad.
Posted on: 2007/6/1 3:33
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Home away from home
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Let me be a little more harsh than BM? SF ? I think that?s kind of a really low swipe. The subtext of what you?re saying is that she?s some kind of ?nutter? and should be dismissed as such. Why?... because as a parent and dog-owner she doesn?t like Concept D???.. I?ve never met her, but she sounds like she?s a veteran of both urban playgrounds and dog-runs. Isn?t this the kind of voice we want on this thread?... But, wait!.... As a parent, she dared to support a concept other than Concept D!!... ?Oh NO! She?s a TRAITOR to the biological imperative and must be CRUSHED! Quick,? send out the order to revoke her membership card to ?CLUB BREEDER??!  I mean, c?mon!?All kidding aside? PARENTS! (with or without dogs) ? don?t be shamed by any other poster that you?re a bad parent or person just because something bothers you about Concept D. Some of you will agree with ?Althea-JC-Family-Initiative? that Concept D offers maximum security to children, some of you won?t. As much as I?ve been a critic of Schoor Depalma on the lack of substance on the dog-run, there?s been plenty of detail on the children?s areas in their plans. I?m no expert and don?t pretend to be, but I ask parents (or anyone else) still ?on the fence?: wouldn?t Schoor Depalma be out of business pretty quick if 3 out of 4 playground designs they propose had serious safety design flaws for children?... Please,... weigh all the considerations then make up your own minds on this.
Posted on: 2007/6/1 2:55
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"Dogs are our link to paradise." - Milan Kundera
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Super_furry, in fairness to lunawolf3 and those who read your reply here, should know that she has two children herself and earlier posted in this thread her concern for both children and dogs. Quote: I am a dog owner and a parent. My kids are grown but I can sympathize with parents raising kids in the city as I raised 2 in the village along with 2 dogs. Not easy. I cannot believe I did it actually. Full disclosure: I know lunawolf3 and she is a loving mother of both her children and her beautiful, small dogs. She has probably more experience with dogs runs than most in JC as she has been instrumental in setting up and running dogs runs in NY and as others at dogjc will attest, including parkman and van vorst park dog, she has been very active in the VVP dog run. My point is don't dismiss her concerns for her dogs as being less concern for children, it is not. She simply feels and states so here what her opinion is for the best choice. I wish we all would be so transparent as I know you, brewster, 4bailey and parkman have been in this process and most importantly the HPNA in their original survey.
Posted on: 2007/5/31 19:45
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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Quote:
In our society most of us feel that "human" children come before, uh, "dog" children(?). At least you are honest about your beliefs.
Posted on: 2007/5/31 19:25
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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2005/6/12 15:07 Last Login : 2018/6/17 12:06 From Jersey City
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Well thank you Mr BrightMoment :)
This is tough as I know you know I am with B. As many have already said we will all ultimately go with what feels right to us as individuals--lets hope many will take all interested parties into account. I feel just as strongly as Althea about the location of the dogs as she does about the kids. I really really want the dogs away as much as possible from the loud activities of plan D. I likely will not use the runs if plan D passes. I have spent a lot of time in H P to form my opinion. As I stated earlier I have tapped many resources for my study as well. I am not going to tell others how to vote--I can only say how I feel. I sympathize and can relate with all parents who are raising their kids in the city (anywhere for that matter) I understand their concerns and remember myself how hard it was keeping both of my kids happy, safe & entertained in the village. I frequented Downing st playground--until it got too boring for my older son then spent more time with them at Bleecker st playground which had more options for older kids. And then there were my dogs. And that's a whole nother story. At puppy hood there were no runs in NY but we all know that changed many years ago. ok here goes I am voting for plan B because I feel it best addresses as many park users as possible. Not just kids and dogs but sports etc as well. I do not agree with some who feel the kids needs should come first and foremost before dogs.Sorry but I do not agree.I believe most look at their dogs as their children and a vital part of their lives and families- all should be heard. I also feel that parents concerns are real and should be addressed. How? The spoke between the kids playground on plan B should be broken and connect the playgrounds. that's just me though Hope I do not regret this Mr BrightMoments
Posted on: 2007/5/31 18:33
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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Nice thoughtful post lunawolf3.
 My only question is what option do you recommend we vote for in this ballot? Quote:
Posted on: 2007/5/31 17:57
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Re: Hamilton Park Renovation - Meeting Dates
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Home away from home
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2005/6/12 15:07 Last Login : 2018/6/17 12:06 From Jersey City
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I hardly ever read from this group but have been as of late because of the dog run issues.
I am trying my best to read and expose myself to as many thoughts and opinions on the plans as I can. From as many sources as I can. dogjc, jclist, local friends, neighbors and talk inside and out of the dog runs. I wanna thank everyone for putting so much time, effort and thoughts into their decision making. I am a dog owner and a parent. My kids are grown but I can sympathize with parents raising kids in the city as I raised 2 in the village along with 2 dogs. Not easy. I cannot believe I did it actually. I adore children as I said I made 2 myself. I do however believe that the dogs need to be as far away from small and sometimes (sorry) loud & screeching kids as possible. Plan D does not work for me for far more reasons than size issues- I do not want our dogs in the center of all that activity. We also need the dogs as far away from the children's water play area as possible. Stick the dogs in those tiny activity surrounded & trafficked runs in D and you will have a bunch of very stressed out & barking dogs. I do not want the dog runs seeming to be an 'attraction' to the park but rather a working feature where dog owners can exercise and play with their dogs without too much non dog distractions or harassment. Many talk about fears dog have of kids but lets not forget some kids have real fears of dogs too. They need to be as far away from each other as the park will allow. jmho
Posted on: 2007/5/31 14:51
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